FA CEO James Johnson outlines the roadmap to promotion and relegation in Australia

- different models  "that  could  evolve"  into  a  second  "tier"...

- Conferences...

- Play-offs...

So  which  Soccer  teams  do  you  think  will  play  in  the Eastern  Conference ?  

And  which Soccer  teams  to  you  think   will  play  in  the  Western  Conference ?

North/South is a more logical split: NSW, QLD, NNSW, ACT in the north and VIC, SA, WA, TAS in the south. Each conference would probably have a majority based in Sydney and Melbourne with the rest coming from the other capitals or regional areas not represented by the A-League (which depends on what happens with A-League expansion), so that would help keep travel costs down. The negative aspect is no Sydney-Melbourne match-ups until the play-offs.

I'd rather a single division in the second tier, of course, but I could live with a two-conference model with play-offs at the end. It's not like that's something antithetical to traditional football pyramids: England has it in the sixth tier, Scotland in the fifth, Spain in the third, etc. Then a single division could be introduced at a later date and you what I think would be the most sensible pyramid structure for Australia: A1, A2, Championship North/South, NPLs.

But if JJ is talking about something with 4 or 5 conferences that's a non-starter. It would barely be different from the existing NPL.

Don't panic everyone.  Part of the separation process with APL was an agreement to have a conversation about what entry into the Aleague looks like in the future...
Also the very aim of the second division is to provide a  boost for the NPL clubs and more playing time for all players, yet the preferred conference system which is far more cost effective (and CFG tell FA we are only allowed to have) , will provide less playing  minutes to NSD clubs than they have  now ...... 
F@ckin mealy-mouthed  c#nt.... I knew I should have followed my gut and smacked him in his fat, anaphylactic looking head on Friday...., You could smell the oil oozing out of his asshole the prick. Joey Lynch did a great job trying to press him on the questions everyone wants answered and he side stepped everyone like the greasy little toad he is proving to be..... Uncle Frank would be sooooo proud.

An  agreement  to  have  a  conversation , huh ?

Sounds like  things  are   really   cooking  now....

So basically the groups we have for FFA cup (north/south/east/west) is what we are getting but in league form 

I liked you better when you where trying to convince everyone you have a FFA milieu coaching license and spoke about possessing balls in opposition's  areas and such...stick to that. 

No league form... playoffs 4, 5 games and a final max.... that'll shut up thr wogs and FIFA for a while.... and he had the face to talk about sporting merit..... what a fraud.

I've actually had a bit of time on my hands to think about the Australian Football Pyramid structure, how it would look and who would be in it.

Model #1
Tier 1-3 - A-League would be 16 teams, B-League would be 16 teams and then NPL would be South-West Conference and North-West Conference.
Tier 4+ - State Leagues. Vic, Tas, SA, WA would be promoted to the S-W Conference and NT, Qld, NNSW, NSW and ACT would be promoted to the N-W Conference.

I've also used the current TPO Rankings (1st Oct 2021) to determine the divisions each club would be in. I've only done the first 90 odd clubs in the rankings so the images attached are incomplete.

A-League 
B-League
NPL S-W Conference
NPL N-E Conference
State Leagues S-W
State Leagues N-E

* Just spotted an error: From the NPL conferences down, 1-3 clubs could get relegated depending on which conferences the clubs get relegated from. E.g. If the two B-League clubs get relegated are both North East Conference clubs, that would mean three clubs from the N-E Conference would need to get relegated to their perspective State League whilst the South West Conference would only have one club being relegated to their perspective State League. It just means the bottom 3 clubs in those divisions wouldn't be certain of safety until the final game of the season.

I agree with this format pretty much 100% as a long-term goal. The top three tiers and the bigger NPL divisions should be 16-teams with a 30-round season (double round-robin), smaller states like ACT, NNSW, TAS can be 10 teams and 27 rounds (triple round-robin). 

Realistically the next four A-League clubs will be expansion sides from regional areas (Canberra, Wollongong, Gold Coast, etc.) rather than promoted teams, but once expansion to 16 is complete there should be nothing stopping automatic pro-rel from ensuing.

A nationwide second tier might have expensive travel costs associated with it, but this doesn't need to be the case for a third tier with a north/south split. Then most of the teams would be based in the greater Sydney or Melbourne areas, so many games wouldn't involve interstate travel. Accommodating WA or NQ sides would be the costly part.

If the second division is a national home and away season with 16 teams and has pro/rel I believe it will overtake the a league as the premier competition in this country. 

I'm coming up with another model where the second tier is just two conferences (N-E and S-W) of 12-16 teams. Similar to what I posted but without the B-League. If it is 12 teams, they'd have to play each other 3 times to make 30+ rounds. Important that our teams play over 30 rounds per season (as Arnie has stated - one of the few things I agree with him about in football).

I would not want to be as strong as that, but it has to be said, he pretty much side stepped the questions with promises of future "conversations", and we've  had a sneaking suspicion for a while now that when tthey point to different models around the world, it actually means: CFG would prefer to retain the MLS model.
It's been crystal clear for a while:  there ain't any P&R on the horizon.

Yeah sorry you are right... Just an emotional response I guess... Just sick of soccer being held to ransom to foreign interests these days and everyone's acceptance that  this is a good thing.

I think starting with the 2 conferences as a 2nd division (set out as NE and SW as you did above) may be the best way to launch the 2nd division with the aim being that that becomes the 3rd division long term. No relegation until the A-League is at least 16 teams would give the current clubs at least 5 years in my opinion to get themselves sorted, promotion to be based off club licensing (each progressively higher league has higher standards for facilities, finance etc) and performance, so clubs don't get promoted if they win the league, they have to meet the requirements of the higher league as well.

If the 2 conferences start with 10 teams (for arguments sake) play a full home and away and then play a crossovers as well (28 games all up), I would also protect the conference league clubs from relegation until the leagues have at least 16 teams. 

But as with all of these things the devil will be in the detail, I am sure we have all been around long enough to worry that they will just do state based NPL's as the conferences with a little bit of crossover.

Not neccesarily, the in the U.S. teams in different conferences  still play each other. Not sure how it works though. But doing this would defeat the purpose of this being cost effective.  

Thanks tFl thats alot of background complicated work but I can see its map.

Reviewing that JJ interview, TBH I couldn't care about P/R to APL for sometime for we all know that will be delayed by them as long as they can But I'd be damn happy the NSD gets up and running and below in '23 as mentioned even though its just words in effect.
Don't trust the JJ much.

MSC/bettega, I'm wouldn't be that black and white re CFG, afterall their prize club is in a P/R comp as is quite a few of their other holding investments.
EPL's citizens were the first to back out within 24hrs on the ESL debacle.
Mind you probably strategic but point is the flagship EPL will always be P/R - don't think they care if in the proper style comps or franchise - its all about footprint and washing the dollars more than anything else.
Obviously they would have some leverage here in little ol Aussie but I'm sure the fellow APL owners wouldn't let them run the show.

Fair point LFC, obviously they are not dumb enough to insist on a closed shop EPL for their flag ship "shopfront" club I agree but watch this space :) As for the other clubs under their umbrella, these are clearly warehouses for "stocking" product and I don't think they have enough faith, or willingness to spend money on, in them being in their respective top flight competitions on merit. They just need a silo to be able to funnel players through that happens to be in a "professional" league.

As for the APL owners running the show, mate CFG own the APL AND the FA now..... soccer has been sold to his Obi Wan Kenobiness the Sheikh, lets just hope the Soccerros never play UAE in a meaningful match anytime soon, I would hate to see the result.

Did you even read this before hitting submit? the second division will rise to become our country's premier competition?

It will be the premier competition that over 700+ clubs, their players, fans and administrators can aspire to play in.....  Even if that figure reflects only 100 thousand or so football followers in this country (I believe personally it would be a lot more than that) that's a significant percentage of football fans in this country that would see it as the premier comp.

That's not what he meant though. He meant it would rise above the A-League in terms of playing quality, fan interest, etc. Which is patently absurd. An NSD should be counted as a success if the participating clubs average a couple of thousand fans at the gate, provide competitive match minutes for aspiring players and can take part in a national competition without going bankrupt in the process.

He said there will definitely be an NSD and it will most likely start in 2023. That's more concrete than any FFA boss has been previously. Where he is being more cagey is on the model to be adopted (single division vs conferences) and the pro-rel question. But that's Johnson's style. He doesn't open up unless something is set in stone. Which to tell the truth is better than a boss who shoots his mouth off and has to backtrack.

One thing to note is that he was absolutely categorical that the A-League licenses do not prevent relegation, since FIFA statutes do not allow for the implementation of pro-rel to be "contracted out". This is good news and a tacit refutation of Chris Nikou's remarks about the licenses. Whether pro-rel with the A-League is adopted is also in the hands of FA, not the APL (although you can imagine FA not forcing the matter if it means reigniting a civil war in the game).

I actually think it could rise above it in fan interest yea. It will take some time but if they can go fully professional with enough clubs and introduce a proper pyramid pro/rel system then it will.  We’re talking about over a long period of time here, not going to happen overnight. 

correct points made df1982.
He is keeping things close to his chest but so do most you'd be a fool otherwise, Lowy did similar
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/oct/29/a-league-promotion-and-relegation-an-inevitability-says-frank-lowy#comment-42897398
Mind you at least its more on the table now importantly, which format/model to be decided, quotes " envisioned model presented by the end of the year"......
Covid obviously didn't help lost 2yrs.
IF '23 is a possible target start as he said :

Johnson stopped short of making firm commitments but told ESPN that he would personally welcome a 2023 start date for the second tier, linking its potential introduction with a series of other, landmark events.

"2023 would be a great year to start, right," Johnson said. "2023 is really lining up to be a really memorable year for the sport.
"We've got the Women's World Cup in 2023; 2022 will be a year for the Men's World Cup and a good lead into 2023 [the 2022 iteration of the tournament will run from Nov. 21 to Dec. 18].

That is a fair bit of cautious comment but damn I really will be blown (happily) they hit the '23 mark.
( tFl has got a couple models for them to compare :) )

does the below mean anything to those who say go start up on your own :

"What we've got to remember is that we play in a global system.

"The global system is regulated by FIFA, and one of the principles is sporting merit and that needs to be seen throughout the world at the appropriate time. You can't contract out of that."

Josh, I hear you.
I'm no bitter myself even though some may think at times.
I'm very passionate about the NPL and passionate about our football period hence for the big picture of the game I've been a SFC member as long + in the vain of, built it and they will come (P/R).......but it lacks that real comp feeling what I play and watch for a long time.
The draw is pathetic, run by the ex cable company lets see what the new one pulls, the decisions on Franchise's have been questionable to say the least.
Bulls for eg taking a NPL Club/brand 1sts players thrown out and re locate getting a free ticket into NPL1 just stunk big time. NRL to this day hasn't recovered when they almagamated Tigers/Wests Saints/Illawarra.
Those 4 clubs turned into 2 hardly ever sell out their home grounds.
WU is just wtf.
So these kind of moves are division breakers.
Some don't care but a hell of lot of supporters do.

I can see NSD making ground quicker than we think once its Pro, the links to below are real, the amount of Jnrs/families that play on that same pitch during the day its all there.
Most are local - instead of having to get ready and drive to X AL game their own NSD 1sts will be koff 7/8pm less than 15/20mins away.
Sure won't happen overnight but the fish are there right.

Not in a million years. The kind of clubs who will be in the NSD were getting 2-3k at the gate in the NSL when it was the undisputed top division in the country. They won't be getting more than that for second division games, even if they have pro-rel with the lower tiers. And they don't need to. You should have realistic goals for an NSD, not think it's going to overtake the A-League. If it proves viable then pro-rel with the A-League will happen first anyway.

I would have thought that if a future NSD can match the NSL in attendances and revenue, that is a massive win.

Exactly. Even that is on the ambitious side.

"Johnson clarified that discussions had yet to even commence on which entities would fill the second tier.

"We're not into [discussions on entrant clubs] at the moment," he said.

"We're literally looking at what the model will look like, what the number of matches would be, what the format is, what the governance structure would look like, and where in the calendar this competition would sit.

"We've got to settle on those items first. We've got to decide on the model and then we can have a conversation on what kind of teams could participate."

It's amazing how you can say exactly the same thing for 7 years without actually doing anything.   

That is just a perfect example of corporate bullshit and how to kick the can down the road. Pathetic. Absolutely, mind numbingly pathetic.