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PGR
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+x+x+x+xSo who is the next socceroos coach? Yeah, that's the problem with Australian football, not the fact that player development has been in a death spiral since 2005 Better to realise late than never. Thats the problem mate... its ALL glossed over with "we qualified for the WC 5 times in a row" its just abut enough for the suits that they can be a part of this 4 year FIFA circus (even if they only spend 2 weeks there) ... who cares what us pathetic supporters think. In 1974 we couldn't even score a goal. Here we are with one against the world champions.
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johnszasz
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Had a flashback this morning. Our Confed Cup 2005 with the GG wasn't exactly great yet all were playing at high levels. How much of it coaching? It's natural for a fan to consider how approaches would be different with a different manager.
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Dan_The_Red
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Shocked how many are hanging Atkinson. Yes he made some poor mistake, but jeez he’s up against Mbappe for Christ’s sake. I thought he did excellent to stop him on numerous occasions, the best defenders on earth don’t stop him every time.
Our game plan should’ve been defending in numbers to limit overloads, then counter transitions with quick attackers. All very direct, no back passing as we simple don’t have the quality to play through them if we try and settle in position. Essentially what we did for first 15 minutes. Sadly Arnie’s plan seemed to be sit back and hang on if we managed to jag first goal. Having Mooy dwell on the ball countless times played straight into France’s hands.
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Dan_The_Red
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+x+x+x+x+xSo who is the next socceroos coach? Yeah, that's the problem with Australian football, not the fact that player development has been in a death spiral since 2005 Better to realise late than never. Thats the problem mate... its ALL glossed over with "we qualified for the WC 5 times in a row" its just abut enough for the suits that they can be a part of this 4 year FIFA circus (even if they only spend 2 weeks there) ... who cares what us pathetic supporters think. In 1974 we couldn't even score a goal. Here we are with one against the world champions. Thanks for the observation, great progress in 50 years…. Maybe in another 50 we’ll finally managed a clean sheet.
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Enzo Bearzot
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+x+x+x+x
Where is the physicality? Not fouling, but strong challenges, and not allowing opponents time to settle when they receive the ball? We were doing some of that at the start of the game, pressing higher and putting opponents under pressure, and it seemed to be going ok. We did win the ball a few times higher up the park. But after 20-25 minutes we stopped doing that. I can't believe we were cooked, we weren't chasing and running that much.
I think I saw one strong challenge 3/4 way through. We need to be on their hammer from the get go. Get in their face, their ear and let them know they're a chance of getting wrecked if they step a foot wrong. Intimidate and make them think twice. Our players (besides Duke) all look like the most animation or emotion they'd ever show is if they got beaten on the PS3. Ha. The French all play at the highest level week in week out. You think Duke "getting in their face" will be intimidating to them? No. They'll just flop, draw the yellow and Duke will be dancing on thin ice for the rest of the game. Besides you actually need to get close enough to do any of that without having 5 players on yellow by half time Our players challenges were regularly late because the French were quicker and always moving. To think that if we can't win the game we can win the fight as viable strategy is naive. Sure but what's your answer? We have the players we have for these 3 games. What's your strategy? Being physical is naive so what? We pass France off the park? I would not have played Atkinson, McGree, Leckie and Ryan. France were always going to attack via the flanks and cross to Giroud. The flanks needed strong defensive cover. Atkinson is not ready at this level and :Leckie no longer has the speed (yes I know his pass for the goal which was perfect, but France could have another 3 goals form down the Right flank). I thought Goodwin and Behich combined on the left as well as can be expected. I would have played Rogic over McGree and that's self explanatory. I would have had Langerak over Ryan as Langerak is know for coming off his line to to punch the crosses. And we still would have lost.
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Enzo Bearzot
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+x+x+x+xThe team gets around like custard armed dweebs. Do we have anyone with a bit of grunt and venom? I know the forum wants us to focus on technique but it makes me SO sad to see how piss weak we are physically. The one thing we had, we gave up. You can thank the National Curriculum for that one. There is nothing wrong developing technique along with our existing traits. If anything we looked technically deficient more than anything else. Yep that's the problem. Its ALWAYS the problem.
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Enzo Bearzot
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+xTalk of other LB options is folly too given Behich was basically our BOGAs mentioned Hrustic would have started if not injured. Sainsbury and Langerak (maybe Taggart?) are the only squad non-selections I think people can TRULY argue a case that's anything other than mild personal preference. We still would have lost anyway I thought Behich was our best too. And you couldn't fault his mentality and grit either. Yet Vince Ruggari reckons Aziz Behich: 4.5
Given an absolute bath on the left by Ousmane Dembele, right from the opening minutes. Made a terrific goal-line clearance, was strong in the scramble and had some good moments going forward, but was otherwise eaten alive.https://www.theage.com.au/sport/soccer/socceroos-player-ratings-how-australia-fared-in-the-loss-to-france-20221123-p5c0i5.html?js-chunk-not-found-refresh=true
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Enzo Bearzot
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+xHad a flashback this morning. Our Confed Cup 2005 with the GG wasn't exactly great yet all were playing at high levels. How much of it coaching? It's natural for a fan to consider how approaches would be different with a different manager. Maybe the GG was the outlier and this is the normal for us? Belgium now has its GG. Their other one was in 1986.
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johnszasz
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+x+x+x+x+x
Where is the physicality? Not fouling, but strong challenges, and not allowing opponents time to settle when they receive the ball? We were doing some of that at the start of the game, pressing higher and putting opponents under pressure, and it seemed to be going ok. We did win the ball a few times higher up the park. But after 20-25 minutes we stopped doing that. I can't believe we were cooked, we weren't chasing and running that much.
I think I saw one strong challenge 3/4 way through. We need to be on their hammer from the get go. Get in their face, their ear and let them know they're a chance of getting wrecked if they step a foot wrong. Intimidate and make them think twice. Our players (besides Duke) all look like the most animation or emotion they'd ever show is if they got beaten on the PS3. Ha. The French all play at the highest level week in week out. You think Duke "getting in their face" will be intimidating to them? No. They'll just flop, draw the yellow and Duke will be dancing on thin ice for the rest of the game. Besides you actually need to get close enough to do any of that without having 5 players on yellow by half time Our players challenges were regularly late because the French were quicker and always moving. To think that if we can't win the game we can win the fight as viable strategy is naive. Sure but what's your answer? We have the players we have for these 3 games. What's your strategy? Being physical is naive so what? We pass France off the park? I would not have played Atkinson, McGree, Leckie and Ryan. France were always going to attack via the flanks and cross to Giroud. The flanks needed strong defensive cover. Atkinson is not ready at this level and :Leckie no longer has the speed (yes I know his pass for the goal which was perfect, but France could have another 3 goals form down the Right flank). I thought Goodwin and Behich combined on the left as well as can be expected. I would have played Rogic over McGree and that's self explanatory. I would have had Langerak over Ryan as Langerak is know for coming off his line to to punch the crosses. And we still would have lost. I don't think any keeper will come for those crosses when the scorer is about 8 yards from the goal and there are two centre backs in the 5 yard box. Great positioning and placement by France.
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Davstar
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+x+xHad a flashback this morning. Our Confed Cup 2005 with the GG wasn't exactly great yet all were playing at high levels. How much of it coaching? It's natural for a fan to consider how approaches would be different with a different manager. Maybe the GG was the outlier and this is the normal for us? Belgium now has its GG. Their other one was in 1986. or we have gone backwards due to a poorly structured Domestic AL from 'grass roots' level i remember in 2006 we changed to a 'Dutch model' all the experts were saying in 10 years we will be producing world class talent its been almost 2 decades and we have not produce a single 'world class player' and we are producing less top level players then ever before. we need to open the AL to a more tradition structure unite both old soccer and new football and end this stupid division
these Kangaroos can play football -
Ange P. (Intercontinental WC Play-offs 2017)
KEEP POLITICS OUT OF FOOTBALL
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Enzo Bearzot
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+x+x+x+x+x+x
Where is the physicality? Not fouling, but strong challenges, and not allowing opponents time to settle when they receive the ball? We were doing some of that at the start of the game, pressing higher and putting opponents under pressure, and it seemed to be going ok. We did win the ball a few times higher up the park. But after 20-25 minutes we stopped doing that. I can't believe we were cooked, we weren't chasing and running that much.
I think I saw one strong challenge 3/4 way through. We need to be on their hammer from the get go. Get in their face, their ear and let them know they're a chance of getting wrecked if they step a foot wrong. Intimidate and make them think twice. Our players (besides Duke) all look like the most animation or emotion they'd ever show is if they got beaten on the PS3. Ha. The French all play at the highest level week in week out. You think Duke "getting in their face" will be intimidating to them? No. They'll just flop, draw the yellow and Duke will be dancing on thin ice for the rest of the game. Besides you actually need to get close enough to do any of that without having 5 players on yellow by half time Our players challenges were regularly late because the French were quicker and always moving. To think that if we can't win the game we can win the fight as viable strategy is naive. Sure but what's your answer? We have the players we have for these 3 games. What's your strategy? Being physical is naive so what? We pass France off the park? I would not have played Atkinson, McGree, Leckie and Ryan. France were always going to attack via the flanks and cross to Giroud. The flanks needed strong defensive cover. Atkinson is not ready at this level and :Leckie no longer has the speed (yes I know his pass for the goal which was perfect, but France could have another 3 goals form down the Right flank). I thought Goodwin and Behich combined on the left as well as can be expected. I would have played Rogic over McGree and that's self explanatory. I would have had Langerak over Ryan as Langerak is know for coming off his line to to punch the crosses. And we still would have lost. I don't think any keeper will come for those crosses when the scorer is about 8 yards from the goal and there are two centre backs in the 5 yard box. Great positioning and placement by France. That is simply not true for at least one of Giroud's goals where it was Behich who was the direct defender. I'd need to see other other two again..
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jas88
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starting to realise how important Nabbout was in Russia he really pressed well and I understand why BVM took him, we need that at this level to compete.
I also think the media has played some part. we're too nice. Imagine what the media are saying in Argentina atm?
3 questions in post game conference? not a single question on tactics and why he played the way he did... I miss Les... he was such a straight shooter.
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PGR
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Of course our performance was unsatisfactory.
But let's look at the reality. France's off ball movements, skill, speed, sharpness and team play was of the highest order. That was a slick and powerful unit we saw in France.
I wish any team the best of luck to try and beat them.
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Enzo Bearzot
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+x+x+xHad a flashback this morning. Our Confed Cup 2005 with the GG wasn't exactly great yet all were playing at high levels. How much of it coaching? It's natural for a fan to consider how approaches would be different with a different manager. Maybe the GG was the outlier and this is the normal for us? Belgium now has its GG. Their other one was in 1986. or we have gone backwards due to a poorly structured Domestic AL from 'grass roots' level i remember in 2006 we changed to a 'Dutch model' all the experts were saying in 10 years we will be producing world class talent its been almost 2 decades and we have not produce a single 'world class player' and we are producing less top level players then ever before. we need to open the AL to a more tradition structure unite both old soccer and new football and end this stupid division Germany solved the division when their FA demanded all clubs take part in its youth identification program from the biggest to the smallest. Australian clubs from the biggest to the smallest act in their own interests. I have zero faith that will change any time soon. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/sep/05/germany-football-team-youth-development-to-world-cup-win-2014
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johnszasz
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x
Where is the physicality? Not fouling, but strong challenges, and not allowing opponents time to settle when they receive the ball? We were doing some of that at the start of the game, pressing higher and putting opponents under pressure, and it seemed to be going ok. We did win the ball a few times higher up the park. But after 20-25 minutes we stopped doing that. I can't believe we were cooked, we weren't chasing and running that much.
I think I saw one strong challenge 3/4 way through. We need to be on their hammer from the get go. Get in their face, their ear and let them know they're a chance of getting wrecked if they step a foot wrong. Intimidate and make them think twice. Our players (besides Duke) all look like the most animation or emotion they'd ever show is if they got beaten on the PS3. Ha. The French all play at the highest level week in week out. You think Duke "getting in their face" will be intimidating to them? No. They'll just flop, draw the yellow and Duke will be dancing on thin ice for the rest of the game. Besides you actually need to get close enough to do any of that without having 5 players on yellow by half time Our players challenges were regularly late because the French were quicker and always moving. To think that if we can't win the game we can win the fight as viable strategy is naive. Sure but what's your answer? We have the players we have for these 3 games. What's your strategy? Being physical is naive so what? We pass France off the park? I would not have played Atkinson, McGree, Leckie and Ryan. France were always going to attack via the flanks and cross to Giroud. The flanks needed strong defensive cover. Atkinson is not ready at this level and :Leckie no longer has the speed (yes I know his pass for the goal which was perfect, but France could have another 3 goals form down the Right flank). I thought Goodwin and Behich combined on the left as well as can be expected. I would have played Rogic over McGree and that's self explanatory. I would have had Langerak over Ryan as Langerak is know for coming off his line to to punch the crosses. And we still would have lost. I don't think any keeper will come for those crosses when the scorer is about 8 yards from the goal and there are two centre backs in the 5 yard box. Great positioning and placement by France. That is simply not true for at least one of Giroud's goals where it was Behich who was the direct defender. I'd need to see other other two again.. Ah yes it was Behich. Yet two gold shirts there keep the keeper on his line when the scorer is still far away. France's positioning was excellently timed. We shouldn't have allowed the crosses in the first place.
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Enzo Bearzot
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+xShocked how many are hanging Atkinson. Yes he made some poor mistake, but jeez he’s up against Mbappe for Christ’s sake. I thought he did excellent to stop him on numerous occasions, the best defenders on earth don’t stop him every time. Our game plan should’ve been defending in numbers to limit overloads, then counter transitions with quick attackers. All very direct, no back passing as we simple don’t have the quality to play through them if we try and settle in position. Essentially what we did for first 15 minutes. Sadly Arnie’s plan seemed to be sit back and hang on if we managed to jag first goal. Having Mooy dwell on the ball countless times played straight into France’s hands. The problem with Atkinson was his selection, which isn't his fault. He's simply not ready to play a senior WC. He's done that mistake multiple times before. Mostly he gets away with that poor touch against inferior opposition. He then showed a lack o urgency after the poor touch because he felt he had enough time to retrieve the ball. I like your game plan.
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johnszasz
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+x+xShocked how many are hanging Atkinson. Yes he made some poor mistake, but jeez he’s up against Mbappe for Christ’s sake. I thought he did excellent to stop him on numerous occasions, the best defenders on earth don’t stop him every time. Our game plan should’ve been defending in numbers to limit overloads, then counter transitions with quick attackers. All very direct, no back passing as we simple don’t have the quality to play through them if we try and settle in position. Essentially what we did for first 15 minutes. Sadly Arnie’s plan seemed to be sit back and hang on if we managed to jag first goal. Having Mooy dwell on the ball countless times played straight into France’s hands. The problem with Atkinson was his selection, which isn't his fault. He's simply not ready to play a senior WC. He's done that multiple times before. Mostly he gets away with that poor touch against inferior opposition. He then showed a lack o urgency after the poor touch because he felt he had enough time to retrieve the ball. I like your game plan. Seconded. Early on we had some quick turns and went forward. A bit more and better early on could've seen more opportunities.
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roosty
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All those defending Atkinson must be City, Heart supporters. Can they not see that he is a technically very poor, slow and defensively weak? It’s not like he’s lighting up the SPL, he’s had some very poor games for Hearts. I’m certain he has no future in Europe or even the SPL, yet here is starting for GA. That’s my major beef with GA, he cannot pick a player , he just picks his mates and throws shit at walls hoping something sticks. Atkinson will go down as well as Duke as Arnold’s finest and oddest selection blunders. Karacic will probably play 200+ games in serie B, maybe even serie A, yet here he playing second fiddle to this absolute dud of a footballer.
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johnszasz
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I think we have the answer that Atkinson is only best as a wing back or a winger. He gets in behind alright and has a decent cross.
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johnszasz
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bettega
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Harry never had much love for Arnie.
I recall when we got thrashed by Germany back in 2010, all the old socceroos came out to bag Pim.
I tell you what, if there is one man who understood tournament play - it's Pim.
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Bunch of Hacks
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+xHad a flashback this morning. Our Confed Cup 2005 with the GG wasn't exactly great yet all were playing at high levels. How much of it coaching? It's natural for a fan to consider how approaches would be different with a different manager. We were without Kewell, Viduka (both injured) as well as Bresch and Grella (Serie A relegation playoff). Notwithstanding the squad was still very good but the coaching at that tournament from Farina was poor and is what led lowy to make the swift decision of sacking him. First thing Gus did after coming in was improve the speed of our backline by demoting Popa and laza to the bench, and dropping McKain and Muscat altogether, moved Neill from a fullback to CB, Chippers from LW to LB and Emerton from RW to RB... dramatically improved both the ball playing ability from the back along with the speed. The rest as they say is history
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charlied
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+x+xI can't understand how anyone expected more. We certainly got exactly what I expected in terms of selection, tactics and performance. I picked 5 nil and 4-1 flattered Australia. It was like racing an A list Formula 1 car against a DIY Formula 3 built by an amateur mechanic in their back yard. All our players do their best. Arnold does his best. But we're only at the World Cup to make up the numbers and the performance of our junior teams suggests that this is what we've got for the foreseeable future, with the occasional exception. The Kuol brothers will not save us. I think Tunisia and Denmark will beat us comfortably. Any team that starts a mediocre J2 striker has terminal player quality issues. There’s not a coach in the entire world, other than Arnold, who would start a J2 “striker” (he doest even play striker for club). Its not like we are replete with great quality strikers, but we left arguably our best striker at home, even though he plays at a higher level and has scored more goals than our main “striker”. Additionally sometimes when you have quality issues you need to look to youth to identify players who have that potential to play at a higher level. I would’ve picked Dagostino, Tilio, probably even Arazni over a dolt like Duke.
So its hard to agree with your post, especially the part where you said “Arnold did his best”, when he left our best players at home or the bench and promoted his mates instead. Sure we probably would’ve lost to France but Im certain we’d put up a better showing than we did.
Agree 100% on Arnold. When I said his best, that is exactly what I meant. Just didn't come across.
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johnszasz
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+x+xHad a flashback this morning. Our Confed Cup 2005 with the GG wasn't exactly great yet all were playing at high levels. How much of it coaching? It's natural for a fan to consider how approaches would be different with a different manager. We were without Kewell, Viduka (both injured) as well as Bresch and Grella (Serie A relegation playoff). Notwithstanding the squad was still very good but the coaching at that tournament from Farina was poor and is what led lowy to make the swift decision of sacking him. First thing Gus did after coming in was improve the speed of our backline by demoting Popa and laza to the bench, and dropping McKain and Muscat altogether, moved Neill from a fullback to CB, Chippers from LW to LB and Emerton from RW to RB... dramatically improved both the ball playing ability from the back along with the speed. The rest as they say is history Very fair points. Forgot who was out. Viduka played but was hurt. Wasn't he rugby tackled vs Argentina?
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grazorblade
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+x+xHad a flashback this morning. Our Confed Cup 2005 with the GG wasn't exactly great yet all were playing at high levels. How much of it coaching? It's natural for a fan to consider how approaches would be different with a different manager. We were without Kewell, Viduka (both injured) as well as Bresch and Grella (Serie A relegation playoff). Notwithstanding the squad was still very good but the coaching at that tournament from Farina was poor and is what led lowy to make the swift decision of sacking him. First thing Gus did after coming in was improve the speed of our backline by demoting Popa and laza to the bench, and dropping McKain and Muscat altogether, moved Neill from a fullback to CB, Chippers from LW to LB and Emerton from RW to RB... dramatically improved both the ball playing ability from the back along with the speed. The rest as they say is history Gee he was a good coach so wad bvm to be honest. Not sure where arnold rates, and he did struggle in his one stint overseas, but this is an era where a league coaches can succeed in europe. If arnold did well in the a league, coaching is probably less of a problem than the cattle
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Derider
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Kalac is full of shit lol. MacLaren would've been just as anonymous as Cummings. And yeah mate, we know 2006 was a better squad than this. Does he want a fucking medal? He still holds the title for the worst Australian goalkeeping performance at the World Cup. He had an absolute nightmare against Croatia. Maybe he should stick to shilling for betting agencies and leave analysis to others.
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Derider
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+xI tell you what, if there is one man who understood tournament play - it's Pim. OMG this is so dumb.
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Derider
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+xI tell you what, if there is one man who understood tournament play - it's Pim. OMG this is so dumb.
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zimbos_05
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+x+xThe fact that our 10 starting outfield players are all either A League, Scottish League or Division Two leagues speaks volumes of where we are at. I think we have to acknowledge that this is the weakest world cup team we've put out. Add to that all of Arnold's failings as a manager, and I guess we shouldn't be too surprised. Saudi Arabia’s starting 11 all play in Saudi league and they beat Argentina.
We could and should have done better, particularly after we started so well. We just completely stopped once we scored the goal. It was a very disappointing performance, even allowing for the gap in quality between the teams.
It was frustrating and a lot of the blame has to go on Arnold, who seemingly had no clue what to do when parking the bus failed so dismally.
This is the only answer in all of this. People can talk about where the players are at and a bunch of other questions, and fair enough, the questions need to be asked and answered. There are issues that need to be addressed, but in terms of the game situation, good coaches prove their worth when the chips are down. The Saudis turned up. They played with nothing to lose and they did not let the situation get to them. They did not accept that losing to Argentina would be acceptable because the rankings say so. All of the other issues are excuses for Arnie to hide behind, and let's not forget that Arnie has been part of the system for a long time. He would be someone that is in some way responsible for the current system and production of talent that we have. With nothing to lose, we started like it, and then stopped and played a clueless and conservative brand of football.
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mark_000au
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Gotta admit...it has been so depressing the past 4 years watching the national team under Arnie. Even with the game we won against the minnows.
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