Alf Ramsay is still the greatest England coach. England still has not won anything since 1966.

England are a much better team than they were 10-20 years ago, but something is still lacking. A bit more composure?
The improved playing style and ball control of the England players is due to them playing for the super rich clubs with many top foreign players and coaches.

Southgate should be commended for being a national team coach who does well with the players he has. But as I have stressed in other posts, the formations and tactics he is able to adopt, are possible because of the high quality players he had at his disposal. Few countries can call on the likes of Saka, Rashford, Foden,  Grealish and Bellingham.
I suspect even Arnie might adopt different tactics and formations if presented with this array of talent.

Bingo - even though the English FA have picked up on their development the English young players have been influenced how the EPL plays with the likes of Klopp Pep and other euro coach’s the last 10yrs..
Over the years there has been 4 EPLClubs  going deep in the CL steeds all these young players insight how to play in big games with the varying top coach’s from their clubs and their opponents.
Then look at young Bellingham Capt in Bundas and his midfield play just wow.
Southgate with the Rich’s he has in midfield to forwards imo should be doing better ! 

As much as I was kind of itching to hopefully see a Portugal v Argentina final (just for the shithousery around it), I am glad the underdogs in Morocco won. Not just because they had a plan and went with it, but biggest reason being seeing how much Portugal tried to cheaply get back into the game at the end of the first half after the goal. If I was refereeing that, there'd have been about 3 or 4 yellow cards for simulation.

I looked up where they played their club football.

Most play overseas. Many in the big five in UEFA, which I now term big four, because Italy don't belong to the big five anymore. The fail one criterion - they don't consistently qualify for senior World Cups ATM.

Croatia, Netherlands, Portugal and Belgium meet criteria for world powerhouses, without having a big domestic league.

I suspect Morocco are a current  Golden Generation, lIke Chile circa 2014. Nations who aren't powerhouses tend to have Golden Generations.  Powerhouses have constant supplies of quality footballers.

Interesting.

Watching  the game live, I  thought France were the better team in the first half, and England were superior  in the second. Everybody else I know off forum, including recent and current  NPL players,  thinks England were the superior team - like you.

I just realised that Croatia can win the tournament whilst having only outright beaten one team - the mighty Canada. So that is now my prediction.

England has had some amazing players, like Gascoigne, Lineker, Lampard, Gerard, Terry, who couldn't play cohesively together at  international football.

I've read even more about Southgate, and his trusty lieutenant, Steve Holland. Unlike any other England football coaches of his stature, Southgate has attended a lot of workshops with Olympic sports, cricket, rugby union. He has  also had contact with Kiwi high performance coaches. 

In the workshops, his fellow course participants and presenters, including an English female hockey coach, said Southgate was humble and willing to learn anything to give him an edge. On  the occasions that English football coaches have attended multi-sport workshops, they always felt they were so superior to the rest  of the coaches from other sports, because they thought football was far more professional.

Southgate learnt a lot about player management. and has stayed in contact with a lot of other coaches outside football. Because I'm a trained coach, I can see a lot of  the superb  continental football methodology, he and Holland, have imparted to the English senior and underage teams. I  had no idea that Southgate has sought so much coaching advice and methodology in terms of player management  outside football though. 

England have a super-coaching partnership, with  Southgate/Holland. England has benefitted from all the continental European methodology in England. Not as a system like most powerhouses, which we have in Aus where we are lowly ranked football nation, but having so much thrown at them in England, they've picked up a lot in an eclectic manner, not systemic.

Fair play to them.

Wow!

So they've relied  on pen shoot outs.

I don't understand how you can talk so much about football whilst being so oblivious to the football world.

Are you actually watching any of these matches? 

They've been saving themselves.




Fingers crossed.

Santos strikes again mate..... He had the same "feud" with national team players when coaching Greece...... Sorry to see the Portos out, I feel a Portugal v France semi would have been the better match as a neutral... Absolutely delighted for the Moroccans though how made will it be if they make the final?

Hoping for a Croatia v France final so the Hrvatska can thump those cheese eating surrender monkeys but think it will ARG v FRA in final...... 

I know who I would want under the sticks going into penalties :)

I've watched most in either 3 min, 10 min, or 30 min highlights, or large segments of  full matches, even some games live for the entire fixture. 

I haven't watched any pen shoot outs.

It is  quite difficult to be conversant  with every group, team and knock out game.

Have you  thought  of starting a thread from the perspective  of one's views as a live spectator in Qatar, Muz? I've found your posts from being live  in Qatar interesting. I think BOH is   attending games live in Qatar too.

Got to say as much as I see Santos always looking miserable he has had talent galore to manage and done a pretty good job generally.
CR7 would be a challenge for anyone to handle mind you especially these latter years, his call to bench him was vindicated massively and IMO with all the post hoo ah post loss CR7 wouln't have made much diff the Morrocan loss.
We've seen many results go this way in this Cup, you can have all the possesion in the world doesn't mean your gonna win, as we've seen many times its the one with less who has come out in front.
I think its very unfair he is copping flak especially overnight from CR7's partner, like WTF STFU - the whole team was losing the plot by mid 1st half.
Fernandes expects a pen moans groans all game followed by others.
Felix's peach shot that we all thought its going in was matched by a peach finger tip glancing save by their keeper, unreal I thought its just not meant to be.
The chances were there for the taking, Pepe had a free header open goal normally he would put away but not this time for eg, thats pressure.
Since both he and Fernandes have blamed and brought up about the Argie ref being against them and comments made by Messi previous day.
OK I get the ref issue point made, why have an official from a country still contending thats the only question you can ask but overall it was give and take the whole game rightly wrongly.
Kudos to Santos actually saying you shouldn't really be blaming the ref, players (from many NT's with big names) need to start blaming themselves more than anything else, so entitled.

MSC agreed, IF Lavikovic backs up with another MOTM this Semi he's player of the tournament for me.
Hope they are recovering well and not too many knocks, they have nothing to fear looking ahead, if they play to the standards of the Brazil game Messi will be the only one who can/will pull a rabbit out of his hat for he's dragging his squad behind him.

Yep, it continually amazes me too.

Yeah nah it's not.

There were 8 matches, then 4.

Top tip. There's 2 coming up.

hehe very funny :)

Here you D2, a better uptake on the 3Lions and Southgate.......
https://www.espn.com.au/football/england-eng/story/4830436/england-exit-qatar-with-familiar-question-wheres-the-flair
He's part of the handbrake as I mentioned earlier, playing not to lose.
He doesn't take risks enough and his talent pool now is pretty darn good but doesn't use them barring 2/3.
Their Clubs coach's bring out the best in them yet Southgate doesn't use them or change his formations or tactics to suit at the best of times.

For all the stuff written about England over the last few days the facts are they lost to the first decent team they faced.

EDIT: Their group was a joke. Iran, Wales, USA.

#eggonface

They always lose to a decent team - same old story since 1970.

It was Iran not Senegal, if you want to have a go at England at least know what teams were in their group.

Yes I beg your pardon. Senegal in the round of 16. Even more of a joke group if you replace Senegal with Iran.

Edited above.

Unfortunately this is Portugal, it's always someone else's fault. They had a great opportunity this year, but alas they are also famous for losing their cool.

I was sad but happy for Morocco, great story.

Limited football  analysis in that article by the writer.

The journo only alluded to three key moments in each comp when England was knocked out of Russia 2018,  Euro Champs 2020 and Qatar in 2022. There was a reason  England have been  as consistent - not only just good playing cattle.

Some of these I've alluded to prior:

* Much stronger and more cohesive team unit.

* The off the ball movement when building up  from the back to the front, is  vastly superior to 10-12 years ago. Whoever the English ball carrier is at any given point in time, he tends to have better support from teammates creating optimum angled passing  lanes off the ball. The English ball carrier usually has more, and better options to pass to.

* England are rotating the midfield triangles like the good Continental teams - France, Netherlands, Spain, Belgium, Portugal - do in Ball Possession. They use a Defensive  Midfield Triangle at times, then change it to the Attacking Midfield Triangle, depending on the stage of the game. The World Cup footage calls it 1-2 as separate lines,  which is different to what  the KNVB  terms it and who coined it.
England did it seamlessly in Qatar. Credit to Southgate and Holland. Of  course one  can state the bigger clubs in the EPL tend to adopt  the angular formations conducive to passing football than the old crossing game.

*England even rotated the right side of the defensive line, with the midfield line, pretty seamlessly. Good coaching from Southgate.

* In WC Russia England were playing out from the back, and though the midfield third, but in the  attacking third they were overly reliant on aerial crosses. They've evolved even further since 2018. Now they have  deployed central attacking  interplay very effectively, on the deck. Instead of 2 effective points  of the attack like they used in Russia, they now have three.

*  Supposedly, Harry Maguire has struggled at Man U. This guy is one of the best CBs in world football. Southgate has him playing well for the English national  team. He is playing well at a higher level in the WC against the likes of current World Champs, France, than anything  Maguire  has faced  with Man U at club level. Given the high talent base Southgate may have, he has used them quite well.
France only just beat England, are current World Champs and could even win in Qatar too. A  different  ref, giving them a pen they should have had, and England could be in the semis?

Maguire looks good in possession and when used as an attacker at set pieces, but his defending is suspect. Look at France's winner as an example. Also, I think facing the likes of Haaland, de Bruyne and Foden, or Kane, Son and Richarlison, might be comparable to facing France.

I haven't  reviewed the French winning goal - as to whether  it was a team cohesion error, or an individual error. However, a coach would probably evaluate potential goals and effective chances created by the opposition, as opposed to  just the goals converted.


At this World Cup, De Bruyn and and Kane haven't been as good as the French attack of Mbappe, Giroud, Griezman and Dembele. It is  a cogent argument  that the French have lifted on the big stage.

Haaland did not make the World Cup.

Richarlison has been very effective for Brazil though in Qatar.

I think there is a consensus that big players stand up in big  tournaments. The aforementioned  French attackers have excelled in Qatar. Ditto Richarlison, in  the earlier  rounds.  Messi has also starred.

I've been surprised at Dutch coach Van Gaal playing  5-3-2 in Ball Possession Opposition in the defensive  third  of the pitch, then his 3-5-2 in the attacking half of the pitch in Possession?

They haven't played the defensive and attacking midfield triangles  in the  4-3-3 formations , and, 4-2-3-1, 4-5-1 ( 1:4 midfield), 3-4-3 ( flat midfield and diamond shaped midfield ) that the Dutch are renowned for.

Apart from when  Netherlands  played Qatar, they haven't looked that fluent and have been a bit over -reliant on the Dutch wing backs.

Argentina seem to have improved steadily since the first game they played against Saudi Arabia. Their Squeezing in Ball Possession Opposition has become much more intensive than a decade ago. They used to sit back and barely Squeeze, usually in Half Presses and Partial Presses. In this  World Cup they've deployed Full Presses and Squeezed intensively. A team has to be fitter to do this. It is also harder to  coach.

Too casuaristic and nebulous  for me! 

When I mentioned Haaland, etc, I was responding to your statement that (I think) you were making that facing France was a higher level than anything he has faced at club level with Man U. What I was saying was that those club combinations (Haaland etc for Man C, Kane etc for Spurs) that Maguire has faced are, arguably, at a similar level to France this WC, irrespective of whether individual players were at the WC or how they performed at the WC.

Casuaristic???