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clockwork orange
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+x+x+x+x+xLimited football analysis in that article by the writer. The journo only alluded to three key moments in each comp when England was knocked out of Russia 2018, Euro Champs 2020 and Qatar in 2022. There was a reason England have been as consistent - not only just good playing cattle. Some of these I've alluded to prior: * Much stronger and more cohesive team unit. * The off the ball movement when building up from the back to the front, is vastly superior to 10-12 years ago. Whoever the English ball carrier is at any given point in time, he tends to have better support from teammates creating optimum angled passing lanes off the ball. The English ball carrier usually has more, and better options to pass to. * England are rotating the midfield triangles like the good Continental teams - France, Netherlands, Spain, Belgium, Portugal - do in Ball Possession. They use a Defensive Midfield Triangle at times, then change it to the Attacking Midfield Triangle, depending on the stage of the game. The World Cup footage calls it 1-2 as separate lines, which is different to what the KNVB terms it and who coined it. England did it seamlessly in Qatar. Credit to Southgate and Holland. Of course one can state the bigger clubs in the EPL tend to adopt the angular formations conducive to passing football than the old crossing game. *England even rotated the right side of the defensive line, with the midfield line, pretty seamlessly. Good coaching from Southgate. * In WC Russia England were playing out from the back, and though the midfield third, but in the attacking third they were overly reliant on aerial crosses. They've evolved even further since 2018. Now they have deployed central attacking interplay very effectively, on the deck. Instead of 2 effective points of the attack like they used in Russia, they now have three. * Supposedly, Harry Maguire has struggled at Man U. This guy is one of the best CBs in world football. Southgate has him playing well for the English national team. He is playing well at a higher level in the WC against the likes of current World Champs, France, than anything Maguire has faced with Man U at club level. Given the high talent base Southgate may have, he has used them quite well. France only just beat England, are current World Champs and could even win in Qatar too. A different ref, giving them a pen they should have had, and England could be in the semis? Maguire looks good in possession and when used as an attacker at set pieces, but his defending is suspect. Look at France's winner as an example. Also, I think facing the likes of Haaland, de Bruyne and Foden, or Kane, Son and Richarlison, might be comparable to facing France. I haven't reviewed the French winning goal - as to whether it was a team cohesion error, or an individual error. However, a coach would probably evaluate potential goals and effective chances created by the opposition, as opposed to just the goals converted. At this World Cup, De Bruyn and and Kane haven't been as good as the French attack of Mbappe, Giroud, Griezman and Dembele. It is a cogent argument that the French have lifted on the big stage. Haaland did not make the World Cup. Richarlison has been very effective for Brazil though in Qatar. I think there is a consensus that big players stand up in big tournaments. The aforementioned French attackers have excelled in Qatar. Ditto Richarlison, in the earlier rounds. Messi has also starred. When I mentioned Haaland, etc, I was responding to your statement that (I think) you were making that facing France was a higher level than anything he has faced at club level with Man U. What I was saying was that those club combinations (Haaland etc for Man C, Kane etc for Spurs) that Maguire has faced are, arguably, at a similar level to France this WC, irrespective of whether individual players were at the WC or how they performed at the WC. I can see the point you are making, and it appears plausible. However, a lot of players, in this case specifically some forward combinations playing in the EPL, no matter how good they are in terms of the English league, (which is only one of the 6-7 top leagues in world football), the concentration of outstanding players is much greater in Qatar. Some big players, big teams, have underachieved on the biggest stage. Some players haven't been in teams good enough collectively, to qualify for the World Cup - or - they haven't made the final 8 in Qatar. He might be more suited to his English team-mates playing for England, than the individual and collective skill sets of his team-mates at Man U. Maquire might also be more successful at implementing Southgate's game plan, than Ten Hag's too. D2. I think your analyses are great … but 1. Given the quality of England’s squad and their draw, the quarter finals is the bare minimum result they would be expected to have achieved with any manager. Unless you think that team would not have beaten Wales, Iran or Senegal with another manager? Southgate has done nothing special with this team at this WC. 2. I think any CB would have performed well against that opposition when they had arguably the best DM pairing at the WC providing cover. Maguire is a decent, mid-level EPL defender. He performs well against mediocre opposition but is often found at by the highest level opponents.
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Ariaga
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I'm not going to miss the bat roost sound when Morocco's opposition has the ball. Still very much in it, though!
(Need to edit it 20 seconds later, no longer in it!)
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Muz
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Great match. Still not sure how Morocco didn't score. Thought they had the better second half.
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johnszasz
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So do we get that little bit of trivia now? Australia the only team to score against each finalist at the WC. A shame Godwin's Argentina shot was recorded as an og. A player to score against each finalist will be worth scouring the Wikipedia.
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LFC.
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great performance by Morocco - key players out, under gunned, no star players but as a unit are tuff to beat and their coach runs them well. Shame they couldn't get 1 in for it would have really applied pressure on the French and stressed them out. Griezman is a better player sitting behind the front line as seen in the Qatar games, helps having quality players around you for he is no where as effective nowadays at Club levels. Well played LFC's Konate, he's a better CB than McGuire hands down. D2 clockwork orange see's as most do, your sugar coating imo but thats your opinion. So the expected Argies Frogs Finale. GO Messi !
Love Football
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Keeper66
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+xgreat performance by Morocco - key players out, under gunned, no star players but as a unit are tuff to beat and their coach runs them well. Shame they couldn't get 1 in for it would have really applied pressure on the French and stressed them out. Griezman is a better player sitting behind the front line as seen in the Qatar games, helps having quality players around you for he is no where as effective nowadays at Club levels. Well played LFC's Konate, he's a better CB than McGuire hands down. D2 clockwork orange see's as most do, your sugar coating imo but thats your opinion. So the expected Argies Frogs Finale. GO Messi ! And he is only Francé's third choice CB, so not in the top 16 CB's at this World Cup ;). Only playing today due to injury to Upamecano.
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Muz
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+xSo do we get that little bit of trivia now? Australia the only team to score against each finalist at the WC. A shame Godwin's Argentina shot was recorded as an og. A player to score against each finalist will be worth scouring the Wikipedia. No one talks about how that would have been definitely given as a penalty had it not gone in so I'm counting that as a goal for us.
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Keeper66
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI just realised that Croatia can win the tournament whilst having only outright beaten one team - the mighty Canada. So that is now my prediction. Wow! So they've relied in on pen shoot outs. I don't understand how you can talk so much about football whilst being so oblivious to the football world. Are you actually watching any of these matches? I've watched most in either 3 min, 10 min, or 30 min highlights, or large segments of full matches, even some games live for the entire fixture. I haven't watched any pen shoot outs. It is quite difficult to be conversant with every group, team and knock out game.Have you thought of starting a thread from the perspective of one's views as a live spectator in Qatar, Muz? I've found your posts from being live in Qatar interesting. I think BOH is attending games live in Qatar too. Yeah nah it's not. There were 8 matches, then 4. Top tip. There's 2 coming up. Too casuaristic and nebulous for me! Casuaristic??? Yeah I like to think I have a fairly broad vocabulary but had to google this one up myself. About 5 search results down came this link. https://forum.insidesport.com.au/2675178/RE-We-used-to-have-20-Arzanis-Comments?PageIndex=4#bm2676014Nothing has changed in 4 years. Ah, so it’s a word that only exists in Decentric’s own personal dictionary. What does casuaristic mean, Decentric? In general usage, overly vague reasoning. Look up casuistry, but you will need a good dictionary to define how it is used in a general context. I learnt it from a football writer on here, when he used it in an article he wrote. It was a flippant response to a flippant comment! I'm familiar with the word casuistry. However, I think the word you are looking for, derived from casuistry, is casuistic. "Casuaristic" is not the adjective derived from casuistry.
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LFC.
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+x+xgreat performance by Morocco - key players out, under gunned, no star players but as a unit are tuff to beat and their coach runs them well. Shame they couldn't get 1 in for it would have really applied pressure on the French and stressed them out. Griezman is a better player sitting behind the front line as seen in the Qatar games, helps having quality players around you for he is no where as effective nowadays at Club levels. Well played LFC's Konate, he's a better CB than McGuire hands down. D2 clockwork orange see's as most do, your sugar coating imo but thats your opinion. So the expected Argies Frogs Finale. GO Messi ! And he is only Francé's third choice CB, so not in the top 16 CB's at this World Cup ;). Only playing today due to injury to Upamecano. :laugh:correct Keeper66 and only about his 6/7th NT cap (and now in a WC Finale), D2 see things really different to many hence the Konate mention and might I add McGoo as my suffering United supporter friends call him is at 53 caps.
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Decentric 2
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Terrific performance from Morocco!
Didn't appreciate their fans whistling when France attacked though.
Pretty incredible volleying technique to a bouncing ball from LB Hernandez scoring the first French goal.
Mbappe's dribbling brilliance created the second French goal. Having said that, it was good positioning from the French Sub at the back post to score a tap in.
What a final - France v Argentina!
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Decentric 2
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI just realised that Croatia can win the tournament whilst having only outright beaten one team - the mighty Canada. So that is now my prediction. Wow! So they've relied in on pen shoot outs. I don't understand how you can talk so much about football whilst being so oblivious to the football world. Are you actually watching any of these matches? I've watched most in either 3 min, 10 min, or 30 min highlights, or large segments of full matches, even some games live for the entire fixture. I haven't watched any pen shoot outs. It is quite difficult to be conversant with every group, team and knock out game.Have you thought of starting a thread from the perspective of one's views as a live spectator in Qatar, Muz? I've found your posts from being live in Qatar interesting. I think BOH is attending games live in Qatar too. Yeah nah it's not. There were 8 matches, then 4. Top tip. There's 2 coming up. Too casuaristic and nebulous for me! Casuaristic??? Yeah I like to think I have a fairly broad vocabulary but had to google this one up myself. About 5 search results down came this link. https://forum.insidesport.com.au/2675178/RE-We-used-to-have-20-Arzanis-Comments?PageIndex=4#bm2676014Nothing has changed in 4 years. Ah, so it’s a word that only exists in Decentric’s own personal dictionary. What does casuaristic mean, Decentric? In general usage, overly vague reasoning. Look up casuistry, but you will need a good dictionary to define how it is used in a general context. I learnt it from a football writer on here, when he used it in an article he wrote. It was a flippant response to a flippant comment! I'm familiar with the word casuistry. However, I think the word you are looking for, derived from casuistry, is casuistic. "Casuaristic" is not the adjective derived from casuistry. Can't spell everything correctly!
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Decentric 2
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+xgreat performance by Morocco - key players out, under gunned, no star players but as a unit are tuff to beat and their coach runs them well. Shame they couldn't get 1 in for it would have really applied pressure on the French and stressed them out. Griezman is a better player sitting behind the front line as seen in the Qatar games, helps having quality players around you for he is no where as effective nowadays at Club levels. Well played LFC's Konate, he's a better CB than McGuire hands down. D2 clockwork orange see's as most do, your sugar coating imo but thats your opinion. So the expected Argies Frogs Finale. GO Messi ! International football is different from club football. Didn't Messi leave Barca, not wanting to leave? At age 35 he has been a stand out player at this World Cup. Club coaches sometimes make bad calls. Griezman has found his niche at the highest level. This is the best tournament I've seen him play - and he is suited as an AM or Number Ten. There was some terrific last line defending from France today. Konate is a world class CB. He is in the the current world champion team, France, and may have two CBs of similar quality in the team who Deschamps prefers ATM.
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Derider
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+x+xgreat performance by Morocco - key players out, under gunned, no star players but as a unit are tuff to beat and their coach runs them well. Shame they couldn't get 1 in for it would have really applied pressure on the French and stressed them out. Griezman is a better player sitting behind the front line as seen in the Qatar games, helps having quality players around you for he is no where as effective nowadays at Club levels. Well played LFC's Konate, he's a better CB than McGuire hands down. D2 clockwork orange see's as most do, your sugar coating imo but thats your opinion. So the expected Argies Frogs Finale. GO Messi ! International football is different from club football. Didn't Messi leave Barca, not wanting to leave? At age 35 he has been a stand out player at this World Cup. Club coaches sometimes make bad calls. Griezman has found his niche at the highest level. This is the best tournament I've seen him play - and he is suited as an AM or Number Ten. There was some terrific last line defending from France today. Konate is a world class CB. He is in the the current world champion team, France, and may have two CBs of similar quality in the team who Deschamps prefers ATM. Coaching had nothing to do with Messi leaving Barça. Barcelona was essentially drowning in debt and simply couldn't afford to pay him even at a discount without sacrificing the rest of the squad. The decision to cash in and let him go was made at the CEO level. The coach would've been happy to keep him. But this is exactly the problem with your rhetoric. You simply don't follow the world of football as closely as most of us do. Your ignorance about the club game is close to absolute and tends to cripple many of your arguments, as it's often painfully clear that you have no idea what you're talking about. In particular, your knowledge of the English league seems stuck somewhere in the mid 1990s. No wonder you think Maguire is the best CB in the world and Southgate is a wonder coach. That said, your technical knowledge is appreciated and I do enjoy reading some of your analyses.
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Muz
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+x+x+xgreat performance by Morocco - key players out, under gunned, no star players but as a unit are tuff to beat and their coach runs them well. Shame they couldn't get 1 in for it would have really applied pressure on the French and stressed them out. Griezman is a better player sitting behind the front line as seen in the Qatar games, helps having quality players around you for he is no where as effective nowadays at Club levels. Well played LFC's Konate, he's a better CB than McGuire hands down. D2 clockwork orange see's as most do, your sugar coating imo but thats your opinion. So the expected Argies Frogs Finale. GO Messi ! International football is different from club football. Didn't Messi leave Barca, not wanting to leave? At age 35 he has been a stand out player at this World Cup. Club coaches sometimes make bad calls. Griezman has found his niche at the highest level. This is the best tournament I've seen him play - and he is suited as an AM or Number Ten. There was some terrific last line defending from France today. Konate is a world class CB. He is in the the current world champion team, France, and may have two CBs of similar quality in the team who Deschamps prefers ATM. Coaching had nothing to do with Messi leaving Barça. Barcelona was essentially drowning in debt and simply couldn't afford to pay him even at a discount without sacrificing the rest of the squad. The decision to cash in and let him go was made at the CEO level. The coach would've been happy to keep him. But this is exactly the problem with your rhetoric. You simply don't follow the world of football as closely as most of us do. Your ignorance about the club game is close to absolute and tends to cripple many of your arguments, as it's often painfully clear that you have no idea what you're talking about. In particular, your knowledge of the English league seems stuck somewhere in the mid 1990s. No wonder you think Maguire is the best CB in the world and Southgate is a wonder coach. Pretty much all of this.
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Muz
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+xTerrific performance from Morocco!
Didn't appreciate their fans whistling when France attacked though.
This is a genuine question. Have you ever been to an international match not involving Australia? This comment about the whistling is just bizarre.
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LFC.
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Whistling wasn't just when the Franch were attacking just having the ball period lol....... WTF is wrong with that from your NT supporter base trying hard being the 12th man for your team especially knowing your up against it. Christ some people live in a sanitised world, D2 I know your an avid cricket supporter, what about the crowd behaviour in that game, the Barmy Army, the Pakis/Indians worse. Part of the theatre being at a game/event - great atmosphere wouldn't be without it, are you mates with Gallop what they did to active support here. Excluding the OTT wrong behaviour by the small % talking about just normal passionate supporters letting out for their team, long may it continue. Derider good post mate.
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Davide82
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+x+xAm I the only one but I just don' care about the Morocco underdog story? Every Moroccan I've come across is generally shifty as a shithouse rat lol Sorry, semi-rant over. Maybe that should be in unpopular opinions thread, Every French person I've met has been the quintessential wanker. I have no idea how we always end up on the same side in wars Aha maybe you just attract wankers? (jokes) I've only known a few Frenchies well but they were all lovely and on my trips to France have had an absolute blast hanging with locals in bars watching bands etc. The only time I saw the true arrogant wanker side was when I was a tourist with my parents years ago and we were clearly tourists in the tourist traps but nobody that lives in a big European city doesn't feel the same. Anyway I FUCKING HATE the French in football and hope Messi scores a hattrick
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Davide82
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+xGreat match. Still not sure how Morocco didn't score. Thought they had the better second half. It was interesting to see just before france scored: a great run by the Moroccan forward where he just couldn't get a shot away (as he had no left foot) then almost straight after Mbappe does a similar move and with no backlift gets a shot away that deflects luckily to end up a goal. Moments like that are the difference
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Davide82
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+x
Didn't appreciate their fans whistling when France attacked though.
Big meanies
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Barca4Life
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Its nice for context that Australia lost both games to both finalists at this year's World Cup finals in Argentina and France, so we can take comfort from that.
Who ever wins it will be their 3rd world title
For Argentina it will complete Messi's legacy as the greatest player in the modern era and be able to sit along side Diego Maradona as World Cup winners for Argentina and both will be immortals together as one which Messi deserves to sit along side with.
For France if they win they will be the first back 2 back champions since Brazil did it back in the 1960's and confirm as the best team in the last 20 years in world football, it also solidify them as the best football talent factory with Clairefontaine which started in the late 80s which propelled them to develop the best talent pool in the world as no team has made 4 World Cup finals in the last 20 years.
Either way I hope Argentina wins because of Messi but France as a winner would not be a bad thing either, but its been a great tournament on the field and who ever wins will be deserving champions.
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Barca4Life
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+x+xGreat match. Still not sure how Morocco didn't score. Thought they had the better second half. It was interesting to see just before france scored: a great run by the Moroccan forward where he just couldn't get a shot away (as he had no left foot) then almost straight after Mbappe does a similar move and with no backlift gets a shot away that deflects luckily to end up a goal. Moments like that are the difference They were brilliant, Morocco should be very proud they made it this far.
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LFC.
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+x+x+xGreat match. Still not sure how Morocco didn't score. Thought they had the better second half. It was interesting to see just before france scored: a great run by the Moroccan forward where he just couldn't get a shot away (as he had no left foot) then almost straight after Mbappe does a similar move and with no backlift gets a shot away that deflects luckily to end up a goal. Moments like that are the difference They were brilliant, Morocco should be very proud they made it this far. huge kudos to their coach Walid, even though he has a wealth of experience as a player and coach from R16 was unchartered territory. The injury toll building up as well the neutral would have thought the French game was gonna be a walk for the frogs who were near on full strength, his man management and instructions he must be damn happy despite the loss. Note Deschamps only used 2 subs Walid had to use 5. Play off for 3rd, they both deserve it but I'm behind the Cro's, we all like to see Messi get his deserves the same goes for Modric for me undoubly being his last, the little fella has been the unassuming colossus for their nation let alone the world game, gentleman - an out and out gifted midfielder and fighter any Club/NT wish they had.
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Booney
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+xIts nice for context that Australia lost both games to both finalists at this year's World Cup finals in Argentina and France, so we can take comfort from that. Who ever wins it will be their 3rd world title For Argentina it will complete Messi's legacy as the greatest player in the modern era and be able to sit along side Diego Maradona as World Cup winners for Argentina and both will be immortals together as one which Messi deserves to sit along side with. For France if they win they will be the first back 2 back champions since Brazil did it back in the 1960's and confirm as the best team in the last 20 years in world football, it also solidify them as the best football talent factory with Clairefontaine which started in the late 80s which propelled them to develop the best talent pool in the world as no team has made 4 World Cup finals in the last 20 years. Either way I hope Argentina wins because of Messi but France as a winner would not be a bad thing either, but its been a great tournament on the field and who ever wins will be deserving champions. As you wrote we played both finalists in this WC.Our team and who we play is a good guide to who will do well in the tournament. In 1974 we played West Germany in our group and they were the eventual winners. In 2006 we played Italy in R of 16 and they won the cup In 2010 we played Germany in our group and they made the semis.We also played Ghana( with 10 men for much of the game ) and they made the quarter finals and should have made the semis but for the hand of Suarez and the subsequent missed penalty. In 2014 beaten by the Dutch in our group game and they made the semis and finished 3rd. 2018 just beaten by France in the group game and they won the final. I think Messi will do it this time though I have been very impressed by Griezmann.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+xIts nice for context that Australia lost both games to both finalists at this year's World Cup finals in Argentina and France, so we can take comfort from that. Who ever wins it will be their 3rd world title For Argentina it will complete Messi's legacy as the greatest player in the modern era and be able to sit along side Diego Maradona as World Cup winners for Argentina and both will be immortals together as one which Messi deserves to sit along side with. For France if they win they will be the first back 2 back champions since Brazil did it back in the 1960's and confirm as the best team in the last 20 years in world football, it also solidify them as the best football talent factory with Clairefontaine which started in the late 80s which propelled them to develop the best talent pool in the world as no team has made 4 World Cup finals in the last 20 years. Either way I hope Argentina wins because of Messi but France as a winner would not be a bad thing either, but its been a great tournament on the field and who ever wins will be deserving champions. well said on all counts....... Im hoping the Argies win but more than anything, hoping for an entertaining match.
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PGR
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Morocco, hard lions!
Perfect final coming up
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Decentric 2
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+x+x+xGreat match. Still not sure how Morocco didn't score. Thought they had the better second half. It was interesting to see just before france scored: a great run by the Moroccan forward where he just couldn't get a shot away (as he had no left foot) then almost straight after Mbappe does a similar move and with no backlift gets a shot away that deflects luckily to end up a goal. Moments like that are the difference They were brilliant, Morocco should be very proud they made it this far. Morocco are deservedly the third top team in the comp. They pushed France all the way in the semi in their half of the draw, whilst Argentina were clear victors over Croatia in the other semi.
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Decentric 2
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+x+xIts nice for context that Australia lost both games to both finalists at this year's World Cup finals in Argentina and France, so we can take comfort from that. Who ever wins it will be their 3rd world title For Argentina it will complete Messi's legacy as the greatest player in the modern era and be able to sit along side Diego Maradona as World Cup winners for Argentina and both will be immortals together as one which Messi deserves to sit along side with. For France if they win they will be the first back 2 back champions since Brazil did it back in the 1960's and confirm as the best team in the last 20 years in world football, it also solidify them as the best football talent factory with Clairefontaine which started in the late 80s which propelled them to develop the best talent pool in the world as no team has made 4 World Cup finals in the last 20 years. Either way I hope Argentina wins because of Messi but France as a winner would not be a bad thing either, but its been a great tournament on the field and who ever wins will be deserving champions. As you wrote we played both finalists in this WC.Our team and who we play is a good guide to who will do well in the tournament. In 1974 we played West Germany in our group and they were the eventual winners. In 2006 we played Italy in R of 16 and they won the cup In 2010 we played Germany in our group and they made the semis.We also played Ghana( with 10 men for much of the game ) and they made the quarter finals and should have made the semis but for the hand of Suarez and the subsequent missed penalty. In 2014 beaten by the Dutch in our group game and they made the semis and finished 3rd. 2018 just beaten by France in the group game and they won the final. I think Messi will do it this time though I have been very impressed by Griezmann. Well said.
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Decentric 2
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+xIts nice for context that Australia lost both games to both finalists at this year's World Cup finals in Argentina and France, so we can take comfort from that. Who ever wins it will be their 3rd world title For Argentina it will complete Messi's legacy as the greatest player in the modern era and be able to sit along side Diego Maradona as World Cup winners for Argentina and both will be immortals together as one which Messi deserves to sit along side with. For France if they win they will be the first back 2 back champions since Brazil did it back in the 1960's and confirm as the best team in the last 20 years in world football, it also solidify them as the best football talent factory with Clairefontaine which started in the late 80s which propelled them to develop the best talent pool in the world as no team has made 4 World Cup finals in the last 20 years. Either way I hope Argentina wins because of Messi but France as a winner would not be a bad thing either, but its been a great tournament on the field and who ever wins will be deserving champions. Good post, Barca. France won 1998, were finalists in 2006, won 2018 and will at least be finalists in 2022. I hadn't realised they were finalists in 4 of the last 7 World Cups? Very impressive! Also, impressively this time they've qualified for a final outside Europe.
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Decentric 2
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+x+xTerrific performance from Morocco!
Didn't appreciate their fans whistling when France attacked though.
This is a genuine question. Have you ever been to an international match not involving Australia? This comment about the whistling is just bizarre. No, I haven't attended an international game not featuring Australia. I'm not sure what your point is? To whistle like that, to distract an opposition team, for an entire game, is tiresome. I've heard spectators do it just before the end of a game on TV quite often, but not for an entire game. I think it is poor sportspersonship. I've also witnessed some despicable behaviour at live NPL matches. I've attended a lot, and played in a few. It doesn't mean I condone it.
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Decentric 2
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+xgreat performance by Morocco - key players out, under gunned, no star players but as a unit are tuff to beat and their coach runs them well. Shame they couldn't get 1 in for it would have really applied pressure on the French and stressed them out. Griezman is a better player sitting behind the front line as seen in the Qatar games, helps having quality players around you for he is no where as effective nowadays at Club levels. Well played LFC's Konate, he's a better CB than McGuire hands down. D2 clockwork orange see's as most do, your sugar coating imo but thats your opinion. So the expected Argies Frogs Finale. GO Messi ! International football is different from club football. Didn't Messi leave Barca, not wanting to leave? At age 35 he has been a stand out player at this World Cup. Club coaches sometimes make bad calls. Griezman has found his niche at the highest level. This is the best tournament I've seen him play - and he is suited as an AM or Number Ten. There was some terrific last line defending from France today. Konate is a world class CB. He is in the the current world champion team, France, and may have two CBs of similar quality in the team who Deschamps prefers ATM. Coaching had nothing to do with Messi leaving Barça. Barcelona was essentially drowning in debt and simply couldn't afford to pay him even at a discount without sacrificing the rest of the squad. The decision to cash in and let him go was made at the CEO level. The coach would've been happy to keep him. But this is exactly the problem with your rhetoric. You simply don't follow the world of football as closely as most of us do. Your ignorance about the club game is close to absolute and tends to cripple many of your arguments, as it's often painfully clear that you have no idea what you're talking about. In particular, your knowledge of the English league seems stuck somewhere in the mid 1990s. No wonder you think Maguire is the best CB in the world and Southgate is a wonder coach. That said, your technical knowledge is appreciated and I do enjoy reading some of your analyses. I didn't say Maguire was the best CB in the world. I said he is one of the top performing CBs in the world playing international football for England under Gareth Southgate. A sound defence is a prerequisite for any successful team. Southgate and Holland have coached it into a cohesive and compact shape when the other team has the ball. Maguire, along with Stone, is part of an effective England defensive unit. I'm also aware , as LFC elucidates, that it helps the English defensive line, having a good midfield screening the defence. In any team, the defence should start from the attacking line. The midfield line also assists the overall defensive team unit. A semi, a final and a quarter final, in the last three big tournaments is a pretty decent achievement for England. England isn't the epicentre of world football. There are six other leagues similar in quality to the EPL. I have watched a lot of European football in the past. Unfortunately, it is becoming too much like corporations playing each other - Abramovich v Glazor v Murdoch v Bezos v Musk v Sheik Mohammed (not all these guys own football clubs, but you get my drift). They just simply buy players so that a rich club can end up being barely represented by any local players. I don't expect you to understand this, but international football is the pinnacle of football where coaches can't buy players to fix a problem. For mine, international football is a purer form of football. Given the lack of success England have had in big tournaments since Alf Ramsey circa 1966-70, Southgate is a wonder coach. His results demonstrate this. Suggest any English coach between the era of Ramsey and Southgate who has had more sustained success in three successive, big tournaments? I feel through using football specific performance analysis I can evaluate players and teams without having to know what they have, or haven't done, at club level. Just because I don't know the circumstances of how Messi left Barca, does not mean I can't dispassionately evaluate him as a player in the World Cup.
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