The standard of the A-League, and why are the crowds so poor?


The standard of the A-League, and why are the crowds so poor?

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Monoethnic Social Club
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Enzo Bearzot - 11 Apr 2023 10:56 AM
Total season attendances peaked  with Del Piero's ( and Ono and Heskey) two seasons and remained level for another 3 seasons. That's 5 seasons of peak attendances. 

Sydney FC's average attendance increase by around 5,500 in Del Piero first season alone

The there's the TV ratings, the merch, the media interest boost

Genuine star players improve the league substantially and contrary to common opinion  that this uplift continues for a period after they leave ( but not forever, obviously).



It, of itself, isnt enough though mate.... An interesting comparison would be the Saudi league attendances (in games Ronaldo isn't playing) if anyone has the stats?
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Do people in Croatia, Greece, Portugal, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore ask themselves the same question?

The standard is what the standard is. Any decent player that can play in a better league O/S does thereby ensuring the league stays 'relatively' the same standard.

Having said that that is no reason not to support it and attend if you like it.


Member since 2008.


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Monoethnic Social Club - 11 Apr 2023 10:57 AM
someguyjc - 11 Apr 2023 9:57 AM

Pretty much bang on the money in every aspect... I rarely watch any Aleague personally but the level of play on the pitch (on the few matches/highlights I have seen) is not THAT terrible.... 

Football is a global market, which means there is a pretty borad correlation between dollars spent and quality on the pitch. The A-League spends a similar amount of money on squads to EFL League One and if you watch either the quality is very similar. The summer fixture does us no favors though. The slower pace presents like lower quality but it's not. It's just a symptom of the climate. If League One played in the Aussie summer, they'd slow right down too.
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Munrubenmuz - 11 Apr 2023 11:17 AM
Do people in Croatia, Greece, Portugal, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore ask themselves the same question?

The standard is what the standard is. Any decent player that can play in a better league O/S does thereby ensuring the league stays 'relatively' the same standard.

Having said that that is no reason not to support it and attend if you like it.

Pretty much constantly (at least in Greece that I can attest too) but it doesn't stop anyone from attending the local league... club loyalty outweighs any "on the pitch" failings.
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someguyjc - 11 Apr 2023 11:17 AM
Monoethnic Social Club - 11 Apr 2023 10:57 AM

Football is a global market, which means there is a pretty borad correlation between dollars spent and quality on the pitch. The A-League spends a similar amount of money on squads to EFL League One and if you watch either the quality is very similar. The summer fixture does us no favors though. The slower pace presents like lower quality but it's not. It's just a symptom of the climate. If League One played in the Aussie summer, they'd slow right down too.

Sure they probably would but that still wouldn't affect their attendances though ....... (maybe the whole summer thing might puit a few off but not enough to stop them getting their football fix)
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Monoethnic Social Club - 11 Apr 2023 11:06 AM
Enzo Bearzot - 11 Apr 2023 10:56 AM

It, of itself, isnt enough though mate.... An interesting comparison would be the Saudi league attendances (in games Ronaldo isn't playing) if anyone has the stats?


Why?  No-one would be complaining if were at that level again. We got 5 seasons of peak interest during and after del Piero? 

You're expecting a marquee will increase the attendances in all games.  Why?  That's not how the marquee works.

I understand the tribalism of football.  That worked in the distant past.  Today, football is entertainment. The oldest and richest clubs routinely buy the best players, over and over again because if they don't, fan interest will decline.

Its entertainment- you need stars, you need characters.  Aging players a their 6th A-League club and unproven kids will give us what now have-the rusted-ons.  To go the next lelev you need the theatre-goers.




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Monoethnic Social Club - 11 Apr 2023 11:21 AM
someguyjc - 11 Apr 2023 11:17 AM

Sure they probably would but that still wouldn't affect their attendances though ....... (maybe the whole summer thing might puit a few off but not enough to stop them getting their football fix)

Which is probably more to do with history and multi generational support over a long period of time. Unfortunately for the A-League, that's not something you can simply manufacture. It's just a matter of surviving and getting better with time. Which is why they really need to listen and target the rusted-ons and other (non A-League) football fans at the moment. These are the people that have the greatest potential to create that multi-generational support.
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someguyjc - 11 Apr 2023 11:33 AM
Monoethnic Social Club - 11 Apr 2023 11:21 AM

Which is probably more to do with history and multi generational support over a long period of time. Unfortunately for the A-League, that's not something you can simply manufacture. It's just a matter of surviving and getting better with time. Which is why they really need to listen and target the rusted-ons and other (non A-League) football fans at the moment. These are the people that have the greatest potential to create that multi-generational support.
Oh, but in some ways it is mate.

Look at Wrexham FC at the moment ... Sure they had their loyal rusted ons in their hundreds before Deedpool and Philladelphia bought the club  but not the thousands they are getting to every game now.... 


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Enzo Bearzot - 11 Apr 2023 11:30 AM
Monoethnic Social Club - 11 Apr 2023 11:06 AM


Why?  No-one would be complaining if were at that level again. We got 5 seasons of peak interest during and after del Piero? 

You're expecting a marquee will increase the attendances in all games.  Why?  That's not how the marquee works.

I understand the tribalism of football.  That worked in the distant past.  Today, football is entertainment. The oldest and richest clubs routinely buy the best players, over and over again because if they don't, fan interest will decline.

Its entertainment- you need stars, you need characters.  Aging players a their 6th A-League club and unproven kids will give us what now have-the rusted-ons.  To go the next lelev you need the theatre-goers.




Sure but bumping the attendance and marketability of only one club doesn't do much for the whole league does it? If One club is getting 20-30k at home and the rest are sub 3k with the exception of when "wonder player pty ltd" comes to play at their home town, that may bump up attendances as an average over the league but doesn't help all the clubs.... surely?
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Is it about quality?
I think people overstate the case.
I'm old enough to remember season 3, the highest average attendances ever achieved by the A-League.  The Jets defeated the Mariners in the grand final 1-0 in just about the worst grand final ever played.  They both finished 1st and 2nd respectively at the end of the regular season.
The Jets scored 25 goals in 21 games, and Joel Griffiths scored half of them.
4th placed Brisbane also scored 25 goals in 21 games, same as the wooden spooner, the Phoenix.  So half the teams in the finals that season scored at the same rate as the bottom place club, about 1.2 goals per game.
It was a pretty ordinary season, with pretty much every club playing a dull counter-attacking style that epitimosed the A-League of the period.
But that season achieved the highest attendance average ever - never been able to come close to it since.
The league got another fillip when Del Piero joined, and he was good value for the neutral, but SFC finished bottom of the table from memory.
It's not really about quality.
It's really about fans making life-long commitments to clubs, and that happens for all sorts of reasons.  And logically, every club can't finish top, or top 2, or top 4, so that committment has to come about for reasons other than merely winning more than half your games.
There's still a chance that might happen for the A-League clubs over the course of the rest of this century, but the first 18 to 19 years are not really suggesting that at the moment.

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Monoethnic Social Club - 11 Apr 2023 11:44 AM
someguyjc - 11 Apr 2023 11:33 AM
Oh, but in some ways it is mate.

Look at Wrexham FC at the moment ... Sure they had their loyal rusted ons in their hundreds before Deedpool and Philladelphia bought the club  but not the thousands they are getting to every game now.... 


Your not wrong, but it's not every day Mac and Van Wilder come knocking.
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someguyjc - 11 Apr 2023 11:48 AM
Monoethnic Social Club - 11 Apr 2023 11:44 AM

Your not wrong, but it's not every day Mac and Van Wilder come knocking.

"Thats not a bong ..... its for your schlong" hahahahahahahha :)
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SWandP - 11 Apr 2023 2:21 AM
Not going near a game again until/unless they scrap the Sydney Grand Final shit.

Nothing else.

If we had regular AL football, even Div 2, in my home city, I'd become a member and watch every home game.

Because an admin panel has made a stupid decision, it wouldn't  stop me  from supporting my local club. I wouldn't punish the clubs/players for the bad admin decision from the peak body.
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Barca4Life - 11 Apr 2023 8:05 AM
Booney - 11 Apr 2023 12:07 AM

All of those young players from this generation that have great first touches and dribbling have benefited from the national curriculum which was brought in 12 years ago, so in a way its not a surprise to see this large improvement.

It might be an idea for all those naysayers of the National Curriculum, to put their hand up and admit they were wrong.
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Barca4Life - 11 Apr 2023 8:09 AM
roosty - 10 Apr 2023 11:02 PM

I also its down to how teams are set up, most teams want to attack even if it means playing in transition whilst others like a slow and patent build up, also we see mistakes as well but this is beauty of football in a way so its at least entertaining to watch.



Quite a few teams  vary between  the two approaches  at various stages of games, Barca.
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Enzo Bearzot - 11 Apr 2023 10:56 AM
Total season attendances peaked  with Del Piero's ( and Ono and Heskey) two seasons and remained level for another 3 seasons. That's 5 seasons of peak attendances. 

Sydney FC's average attendance increase by around 5,500 in Del Piero first season alone

The there's the TV ratings, the merch, the media interest boost

Genuine star players improve the league substantially and contrary to common opinion  that this uplift continues for a period after they leave ( but not forever, obviously).



However the league benchmark for the first ten years never had one. 

Unless you count Thompson, Muscat or Hernandez. 

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robbos - 11 Apr 2023 8:33 AM
Barca4Life - 10 Apr 2023 10:39 PM

To me apart from all the dumb admin decisions is the poor marketing of not only the A-League but of the players as well, unless the players have played hundreds of PL games we don't know how to market them.
Look at Mooy, from a technical point of view as good as anyone who has played for the Socceroos & has played in the PL, now with champion club Celtic (albeit, not strong league), but little is known of Mooy outside the football community.
Leckie, played for many years in the Bunesliga (top 5 in Europe), scored against Denmark, set up goal against France, one of the best back in the A-League (very few GG came back as good), played more games at WC than any other outfield player. Very little is known of him outside of football community
Goodwin, scorer against France, also the shot that caused own goal against Argentina, probably best player in A-League, again not known.
Vuckovic, what a heartbreaking story about his son & how he managed his O/S football career & his son needs, back in the A-league
Rogic, as skillful a player to ever don the Socceroos shirt (Harry & Dukes apart), biggest European trophy winner (Chipperfield up there too), but not known outside football community.
We have thousands playing football every weekend & all our Socceroos & Matildas, Plus A-League & ALW players, all came from local clubs, these thousands are playing every week, why not market these stars to them.

What would NRL be without the marketing of Latrell, Munster, Cleary, Tommy Turbo,Tedesco or AFL without the marketing of Buddy, Dusty Martin & now I'm struggling (not an AFL fan).


Past players, circa late 90s -2007, were marketed so much better than the current A L players and Socceroos - particularly if they played in the EPL.

Some of the best Socceroos in this era - Grella, Bresciano, Emo, Culina, Kalac - were quite frustrated playing in  Italy or Netherlands, because  they struggled for recognition compared to the Aussie EPL players. And clubs like Ajax or PSV Eindhoven ( which one did Culina play with?) and a few Italian clubs were higher in world rankings.

Fair comment about Leckie's lack of marketing, Robbos.
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Who wants to watch MacArthur v Perth on some afl oval in Ballarat with more grass on the sides lines than the pitch? 

Also that decision to have the GF in sydney was a massive turning point and moronic initiative that should’ve see him replaced at season’s end. 



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Just imagine if we had a PR how incredible the end  to the season would be. Cannot believe some people are against it (unless you hold a board seat at MV etc)
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tsf - 11 Apr 2023 2:24 PM
Who wants to watch MacArthur v Perth on some afl oval in Ballarat with more grass on the sides lines than the pitch? 

Also that decision to have the GF in sydney was a massive turning point and moronic initiative that should’ve see him replaced at season’s end. 



100% Correct on all fronts.
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Decentric 2 - 11 Apr 2023 1:44 PM
SWandP - 11 Apr 2023 2:21 AM

If we had regular AL football, even Div 2, in my home city, I'd become a member and watch every home game.

Because an admin panel has made a stupid decision, it wouldn't  stop me  from supporting my local club. I wouldn't punish the clubs/players for the bad admin decision from the peak body.

Well said. 
How does a league decision about the GF venue deter people from supporting their club week in week out??

I find that absolutely astonishing. 

As I've said previously, in the 90s NSL the league forced club name changes. But the fans still supported their clubs. 
Why can't the fans simply support their clubs after this decision?
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Butler99 - 11 Apr 2023 2:33 PM

Well said. 
How does a league decision about the GF venue deter people from supporting their club week in week out??

I find that absolutely astonishing. 


Where do you live mate? Maybe that’ll explain why you find it astonishing.

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Decentric 2 - 11 Apr 2023 1:48 PM
Barca4Life - 11 Apr 2023 8:05 AM

It might be an idea for all those naysayers of the National Curriculum, to put their hand up and admit they were wrong.

I mean this process was always going to take time to bear fruit, I guess these dutch coaches that were here knew what they were doing all along...
Edited
2 Years Ago by Barca4Life
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Decentric 2 - 11 Apr 2023 1:50 PM
Barca4Life - 11 Apr 2023 8:09 AM

Quite a few teams  vary between  the two approaches  at various stages of games, Barca.

Thats what I mean and it makes for interesting games tactically even approaches are not always the same.
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Personally I hate it when they re sharing the pitch with NRL.  Soccer needs a decent pitch not a cow paddock like last Monday @ AAMI park. The decent pitch & crowd made the game watchable.   
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Decentric 2 - 11 Apr 2023 1:44 PM
SWandP - 11 Apr 2023 2:21 AM

If we had regular AL football, even Div 2, in my home city, I'd become a member and watch every home game.

Because an admin panel has made a stupid decision, it wouldn't  stop me  from supporting my local club. I wouldn't punish the clubs/players for the bad admin decision from the peak body.

Very lofty sentiment Decentric, Do you NOT have an NPL club in your area that could use your membership?
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Barca4Life - 11 Apr 2023 2:48 PM
Decentric 2 - 11 Apr 2023 1:48 PM

I mean this process was always going to take time to bear fruit, I guess these dutch coaches that were here knew what they were doing all along...

I gather you are both heavily invested in this Dutch Curriculum bearing fruit for one reason or another but do you think it has?

I must be missing something fundamental because not really seeing any technical improvement at youth level, nor Olyroos nor NTs.... Who are these players blessed with excellent first touch you are talking about??? 
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tsf - 11 Apr 2023 2:25 PM
Just imagine if we had a PR how incredible the end  to the season would be. Cannot believe some people are against it (unless you hold a board seat at MV etc)

Despite the usual "We cant have pro/rel because a club like Victory would fold in a second tier" malarky I reckon crowds wise Victory could lock in 3 x home games and 3 x away games EVERY season with over 20k crowds in a second division. PLUS a decent away contingent from Syd Croatia, Marconi, Sydney Olympic, Adelaide Juve etc (if nothing else from Melbourne based "effniks" alone)
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Monoethnic Social Club - 11 Apr 2023 3:30 PM
tsf - 11 Apr 2023 2:25 PM

Despite the usual "We cant have pro/rel because a club like Victory would fold in a second tier" malarky I reckon crowds wise Victory could lock in 3 x home games and 3 x away games EVERY season with over 20k crowds in a second division. PLUS a decent away contingent from Syd Croatia, Marconi, Sydney Olympic, Adelaide Juve etc (if nothing else from Melbourne based "effniks" alone)

I agree, at the moment it's so "whatever", I'll go to the Beach, Pub, friend's etc, see you next year. If the survival of your club in the division rested on the last couple of results, as the saying goes, "you wouldn't miss it for quids". Time for the APL to wake up!
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Decentric 2 - 11 Apr 2023 1:44 PM
SWandP - 11 Apr 2023 2:21 AM

If we had regular AL football, even Div 2, in my home city, I'd become a member and watch every home game.

Because an admin panel has made a stupid decision, it wouldn't  stop me  from supporting my local club. I wouldn't punish the clubs/players for the bad admin decision from the peak body.

How shit would fans have to be treated for you to take a stand ?

And would it have to be a single decision, or can there be a straw that breaks the camels back ?
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