The Aussies Abroad Thread 2


The Aussies Abroad Thread 2

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Goal for Patrick Yazbek (2002), two assists for Nick D’Agostino (1998) and a clean sheet for Gianni Stensness (1999) in Viking’s 2-0 win over Lillestrøm.

These 3 are killing it!

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grazorblade - 15 Apr 2023 7:31 AM

Huge that genreau has broken into the starting 11. Big achievement! Hope he nails down his spot


The French top division is an excellent league.
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2 Years Ago by Decentric 2
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mark_000au - 15 Apr 2023 11:28 PM
Atkinson has been pretty awful.

Defensively?

Going forwards?
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grazorblade - 16 Apr 2023 7:49 AM
yazbek scored a good goal last night, daggers with 2 assists

karacic with an assist too

interesting all 3 heartroos have declined in their second season. If it was one you would dismiss it, 3 suggests this is a bad place for development

What did the  pitch look like, Grazor?
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Decentric 2 - 16 Apr 2023 9:35 AM
grazorblade - 16 Apr 2023 7:49 AM

What did the  pitch look like, Grazor?

Pitch was great today
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johnszasz - 16 Apr 2023 2:12 AM
roosty - 16 Apr 2023 1:08 AM

In saying that he's still a fairly cool head and has proven himself at that highest level we've been as a national team so he's going to be fine I think.


I dont think he’s “proven himself at the highest level”.

He was pretty assured in the Peru qualifier, but Peru arent a great opponent and in any case, it was just one game. He was OK during the world cup, but Souttar was miles better. He has no ability on the ball, no ability to get forward, he doesnt score with his head, and as you point out has defensive weaknesses. There are probably better central defenders than him in the A league, he just happens to be in Arnies good graces at the moment. He will never play EPL or Bundesliga thats for sure.


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Decentric 2 - 16 Apr 2023 9:34 AM
mark_000au - 15 Apr 2023 11:28 PM

Defensively?

Going forwards?

Both especially his first touch 
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grazorblade - 16 Apr 2023 7:49 AM


interesting all 3 heartroos have declined in their second season. If it was one you would dismiss it, 3 suggests this is a bad place for development

Ah so its Hearts fault Atkinson, Rowles and Devlin have been stinking it up lately? Atkinson especially, any other club and he’d be back in the A league already.

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grazorblade - 16 Apr 2023 7:46 AM
Atkinson and rowles probably hearts best players today imo.

Looking at fotmob, the ratings agree. Looking at the hearts forum a few fans complaining they (and devlin) aren't physically strong enough and need to get in the gym, others saying atkinson was the best, rowles getting more heat for being physically weak (about 30 comments saying the same thing)

makes me think scotland is a terrible place to send our players if that is how they evaluate players. The refs protect players less than in international football so being weak is a problem in that league
They were right. One time in the game shoulder to shoulder clash with the Hibs player Rowles got bounced off and almost fell down. Rowles & Kuol needs to work on physical strength. 


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mark_000au - 16 Apr 2023 10:54 AM
grazorblade - 16 Apr 2023 7:46 AM
They were right. One time in the game shoulder to shoulder clash with the Hibs player Rowles got bounced off and almost fell down. Rowles & Kuol needs to work on physical strength. 


Interesting the divergence between fotmob which has rowles and atkinson as the best players and hearts fans

off season is soon, need to either bulk up or move.

i dont think we need them to bulk up so id rather they move to a less physical league
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roosty - 16 Apr 2023 10:41 AM
grazorblade - 16 Apr 2023 7:49 AM

Ah so its Hearts fault Atkinson, Rowles and Devlin have been stinking it up lately? Atkinson especially, any other club and he’d be back in the A league already.

More the league. The ref allows a rugby match, there would be half a dozen reds last night if a typical asian ref was in charge.

It isn’t great prep for international football where the refs tend to be on the harsher side.

they need to either bulk up in the off season or go to a less physical league
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To give an idea of the differences in leagues,

last nights game between two of the better teams, that are less direct by the leagues standards, had less than 450 passes all match, yesterdays matches in the a league had 750 and 800 passes. 

This is despite the a league being in summer, apparently winter games get 10% more passes per game than summer games.

the world cup group games typically had 1000 passes per game and much harsher refereeing than the spl. 

i know style isnt everything, but they may as well be learning a different sport in scotland compared to what skill set we need players to learn for the national team.

i guess the spl is a soft landing for aussie players, most roos get game time straight away, there is no language barrier and the culture is similar…but let’s see how these players turn out compared to similar quality osaussies in other leagues

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If Genreau keeps it up he will be in the Socceroo fold soon, we have alot of 6s but not many that can play between the lines apart from Mooy and Genreau is another capable of doing this.

He's at a top 5 league level which is an advantage from the others, we need more playing in higher level leagues in due course.

For contrast Japan have around dozen in top 5 leagues, whilst only Genreau, Hrustic and recently Souttar are the ones involved at this level we need alot more.
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2 Years Ago by Barca4Life
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grazorblade - 16 Apr 2023 11:16 AM
To give an idea of the differences in leagues,

last nights game between two of the better teams, that are less direct by the leagues standards, had less than 450 passes all match, yesterdays matches in the a league had 750 and 800 passes. 

This is despite the a league being in summer, apparently winter games get 10% more passes per game than summer games.

the world cup group games typically had 1000 passes per game and much harsher refereeing than the spl. 

i know style isnt everything, but they may as well be learning a different sport in scotland compared to what skill set we need players to learn for the national team.

i guess the spl is a soft landing for aussie players, most roos get game time straight away, there is no language barrier and the culture is similar…but let’s see how these players turn out compared to similar quality osaussies in other leagues

The style of play in Scotland doesnt suit the Aussie's who play a different style back in the aleague, they should look to the continent for better club moves in the future where they might suit their style more.
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Barca4Life - 16 Apr 2023 11:20 AM
grazorblade - 16 Apr 2023 11:16 AM

The style of play in Scotland doesnt suit the Aussie's who play a different style back in the aleague, they should look to the continent for better club moves in the future where they might suit their style more.

Agreed 
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Barca4Life - 16 Apr 2023 11:18 AM
If Genreau keeps it up he will be in the Socceroo fold soon, we have alot of 6s but not many that can play between the lines apart from Mooy and Genreau is another capable of doing this.

He's at a top 5 league level which is an advantage from the others, we need more playing in higher level leagues in due course.

For contrast Japan have around dozen in top 5 leagues, whilst only Genreau, Hrustic and recently Souttar are the ones involved at this level we need alot more.

Yeah i guess we have genreau, hrustic (when fit) and souttar capable of starting in big 5 leagues. Hoping this improves in the next few years. Who do Japan have out of curiosity?
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grazorblade - 16 Apr 2023 11:16 AM
To give an idea of the differences in leagues,

last nights game between two of the better teams, that are less direct by the leagues standards, had less than 450 passes all match, yesterdays matches in the a league had 750 and 800 passes. 

This is despite the a league being in summer, apparently winter games get 10% more passes per game than summer games.

the world cup group games typically had 1000 passes per game and much harsher refereeing than the spl. 

i know style isnt everything, but they may as well be learning a different sport in scotland compared to what skill set we need players to learn for the national team.

i guess the spl is a soft landing for aussie players, most roos get game time straight away, there is no language barrier and the culture is similar…but let’s see how these players turn out compared to similar quality osaussies in other leagues

That stat is quite salutary, Grazor.

It means there is a lot more play in the Transitions in the Scottish league -  Defensive or Attacking Transitions - or what was termed Contested Ball Phase Of Play in the WC by SBS.

More  technical leagues have higher aggregates of passes, where teams remain in Ball Possession for a lot longer.  There must have been a lot of turnovers and teams fighting to gain possession of the ball in that SPL game. That was like the A League when it  first started.

For international football it is notable how  high the passing aggregates for the top teams are. You've cited the WC figures to substantiate your point.
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grazorblade - 16 Apr 2023 11:23 AM
Barca4Life - 16 Apr 2023 11:18 AM

Yeah i guess we have genreau, hrustic (when fit) and souttar capable of starting in big 5 leagues. Hoping this improves in the next few years. Who do Japan have out of curiosity?

Just to name a few Mitoma, Kubo, Kamada, Doan, Tomiyasu, Ito, Minamino, Yoshida etc they stacked with players.

Should be an very interesting Asia Cup if we play them in the tournament.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_national_football_team#Players

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Barca4Life - 16 Apr 2023 12:12 PM
grazorblade - 16 Apr 2023 11:23 AM

Just to name a few Mitoma, Kubo, Kamada, Doan, Tomiyasu, Ito, Minamino, Yoshida etc they stacked with players.

Should be an very interesting Asia Cup if we play them in the tournament.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_national_football_team#Players

They did beat spain and germany. Will be a big challenge at the asian cup. The improvement of asian teams has been disguised by the fact that physically strong teams can often beat them, so they have to get their points against top euro teams

asian refs give them more protection than the wc (which is already harsh) so it is a tough ask to get results against them
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roosty - 16 Apr 2023 10:28 AM
johnszasz - 16 Apr 2023 2:12 AM

I dont think he’s “proven himself at the highest level”.

He was pretty assured in the Peru qualifier, but Peru arent a great opponent and in any case, it was just one game. He was OK during the world cup, but Souttar was miles better. He has no ability on the ball, no ability to get forward, he doesnt score with his head, and as you point out has defensive weaknesses. There are probably better central defenders than him in the A league, he just happens to be in Arnies good graces at the moment. He will never play EPL or Bundesliga thats for sure.


We must be watching a different game, Roosty.

There is no higher level than WC games against Argentina and France  - the two finalists in Qatar.

From watching Rowles play for the Socceroos since last April or so he has many attributes.

* He tackles well - and- judiciously. Rowles stays on his feet whenever he can. If one commits too early for a sliding tackle, without a supporting second defender, and third defender, it  can leave the defence wide open if one misses a tackle. 

* Rowles' defensive positioning is good within the team game plan in maintaining ideal defensive  team shape.

* He wins more than his fair share of heading duels against international opposition.

*Rowles' jockeying, delaying and showing is good.

*He reads the game well making intercepts, from sound defensive positioning. As  he gains  more experience he will win more.

*As a distributor on the ball he has quick handling speed, a decent first touch and accurate passing with both feet. He also  both sides of the body well and has good body  positioning on both sides.

*Souttar has taken more risks with big spectacular tackles, close to the last man, and they've come off to date, but Rowles stays on his feet more willingly. Souttar has improved his jockeying,   delaying and showing skills ( a lot of skipping and  rope ladder work, to augment 1v1 train ground skills?), but Rowles is more  nimble on his feet. For such young players, the Souttar/Rowles understanding and current partnership, could potentially be our best CB pairing ever.

*Of course Souttar is a phenomenal attacking and defensive weapon with his height and aerial prowess, but Rowles is still a good heading and  aerial duellist.

Whatever happens, or doesn't happen in the Scottish league is virtually irrelevant - if Rowles can hold his own on the biggest stage - World Cup games against Argentina  and France - the current two best teams in world football.

Years ago Pim Verbeek claimed the English Championship was virtually useless for developing players for an international skill set as a high ball, second ball league. To an extent, the Scottish league must be similar. It was when  I saw if a few years ago. A rugby style football league!

 Pim also proffered that many of the best players in  international football  around the world would struggle in the  English Championship as it was then, because they would no t have been able to win enough  second ball contests.

Few players in Scotland played at this last World Cup, apart from Aussies. 
Edited
2 Years Ago by Decentric 2
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Overnight Leicester's goal came from a corner headed by Souttar and parried by the keeper into the path of another Leicester player who scored. Not an assist as such, but good use of his body in creating the opportunity.
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Decentric 2 - 16 Apr 2023 12:25 PM
roosty - 16 Apr 2023 10:28 AM

We must be watching a different game, Roosty.

There is no higher level than WC games against Argentina and France  - the two finalists in Qatar.

From watching Rowles play for the Socceroos since last April or so he has many attributes.

* He tackles well - and- judiciously. Rowles stays on his feet whenever he can. If one commits too early for a sliding tackle, without a supporting second defender, and third defender, it  can leave the defence wide open if one misses a tackle. 

* Rowles' defensive positioning is good within the team game plan in maintaining ideal defensive  team shape.

* He wins more than his fair share of heading duels against international opposition.

*Rowles' jockeying, delaying and showing is good.

*He reads the game well making intercepts, from sound defensive positioning. As  he gains  more experience he will win more.

*As a distributor on the ball he has quick handling speed, a decent first touch and accurate passing with both feet. He also  both sides of the body well and has good body  positioning on both sides.

*Souttar has taken more risks with big spectacular tackles, close to the last man, and they've come off to date, but Rowles stays on his feet more willingly. Souttar has improved his jockeying,   delaying and showing skills ( a lot of skipping and  rope ladder work, to augment 1v1 train ground skills?), but Rowles is more  nimble on his feet. For such young players, the Souttar/Rowles understanding and current partnership, could potentially be our best CB pairing ever.

*Of course Souttar is a phenomenal attacking and defensive weapon with his height and aerial prowess, but Rowles is still a good heading and  aerial duellist.

Whatever happens, or doesn't happen in the Scottish league is virtually irrelevant - if Rowles can hold his own on the biggest stage - World Cup games against Argentina  and France - the current two best teams in world football.

Years ago Pim Verbeek claimed the English Championship was virtually useless for developing players for an international skill set as a high ball, second ball league. To an extent, the Scottish league must be similar. It was when  I saw if a few years ago. A rugby style football league!

 Pim also proffered that many of the best players in  international football  around the world would struggle in the  English Championship as it was then, because they would no t have been able to win enough  second ball contests.

Few players in Scotland played at this last World Cup, apart from Aussies. 

There are 4 players from Celtic
Carter Vicker USA
Daizen Maeda Japan
Aaron Mooy Aus
Juranovic croatia


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mark_000au - 16 Apr 2023 10:54 AM
grazorblade - 16 Apr 2023 7:46 AM
Kuol needs to work on physical strength. 


Kuol needs to find a club that will give him game time first. Good enough to get minutes vs Argentina but not against Hibs apparently 
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Mooy gone from being arguably the best player in the SPL before his injury, to coming off the bench 
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Ouch. Braunschweig 2:0 up already vs St Pauli. A shock. Something ironic when it's Hamburg and Hannover 96's rivals battling it out to favour one over the other.

Metcalfe and Irvine starting of course. 
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Balin Trev - 16 Apr 2023 4:52 PM
mark_000au - 16 Apr 2023 10:54 AM

Kuol needs to find a club that will give him game time first. Good enough to get minutes vs Argentina but not against Hibs apparently 

He got his chance but didn't make any impact. He started one game for Heart but forgettable. You won't get much chance when playing overseas they don't care.  Make you doubt if he is good enough to be the next star. 
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SoccerooFan - 16 Apr 2023 9:08 PM
Mooy gone from being arguably the best player in the SPL before his injury, to coming off the bench 

If you watch the last game against Rangers. Mooy was very poor. Slow pace and very frustrating to watch with the unnecessary backwards passes.  During the game the crowd started to boo him.
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johnszasz - 16 Apr 2023 9:59 PM
Ouch. Braunschweig 2:0 up already vs St Pauli. A shock. Something ironic when it's Hamburg and Hannover 96's rivals battling it out to favour one over the other.

Metcalfe and Irvine starting of course. 

Metcalfe is off.  

St Pauli need to do an Istanbul 
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mark_000au - 16 Apr 2023 10:22 PM
Balin Trev - 16 Apr 2023 4:52 PM

He got his chance but didn't make any impact. He started one game for Heart but forgettable. You won't get much chance when playing overseas they don't care.  Make you doubt if he is good enough to be the next star. 

That's the trouble with loans. Hearts are already good. He's a squad filler. He should've gone to Carlisle and played every week under Paul Simpson and it's near Newcastle, which is weirdly one of the priorities of the loan. 
johnszasz
johnszasz
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St Pauli lost. Still a massive game next week which could be the decider of their promotion hopes. 
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