"The only thing I'd say to that is they were here first and were dispossessed (along with everything else that happened to them) and that is different to everyone else that was sent or chose to come here. I feel like some sort of recognition is deserved. I guess the argument is what does that 'recognition' involve?"

Sorry mate, but that is plain wrong.... Speak to our wonderfully diverse Australian migrants about the reason why they "chose" to come here and you will hear many a tale of dispossession of land, theft, rape and murder...   My neighbour is a lovely Cypriot man and his wife who migrated here in 1974 after the Turkish army invaded his homeland and to this day remain as illegal occupiers of his actual house (a house that had been in his family for at least 5 generations)... that was 50 years ago.... let alone 250 years ago like British colonisation.  Or the Vietnamese bloke down the street that came here with his mum and sister on a boat in the late 70s when the Commies killed his dad and overtook Saigon and kicked them out... ...  Or our South Sudanese communities, or Lebanese in the 80s or ex Yugo countries etc etc etc etc.... fact is, the world over.... bad countries invade other countries and take whatever they want..... its not FAIR but it is human nature and history ..... To the victor go the spoils..... 

No one's arguing that but none of those things happened here and as tragic as all these events are that's not relevant to the people that were living here first. That's my point.

And yes occupation has occurred all though history across the whole world. I'm not denying that either.

None of that means it can't be recognised and addressed. Have a look at the reevaluation of the British Empire that's currently happening. Once upon a time it was just a given that what they did around the world was fine. Ask any Indian what they think about the empire and it's not so black and white anymore.

So it is different to what happened here and why there's a discussion going on about it here. The Turks, Cypriots, Armenians, Yugoslavs, Sudanese can have their own discussions.

Do you seriously think that generations of people before you have not had the same ideas and tried too achieve the very things you're saying?

Around $35 billion PER YEAR currently is spent on aboriginal affairs.  This is about the same as Medicare AND Private Health Rebate combined.

Is there any time when we actually take an audit of what is being achieved with that money, are the root causes being addressed, or is the solution yet again even more money?

How many 5G/ Pedo Ring/Flat Earthers would you say there are?

Yeah the hair shirt mob are annoying too but in general they're not 5G annoying.

You could play conspiracy bingo with 20 buzzwords on a card and you'd tick them off in 5 minutes flat at any No rally.

I usually like in the comments on Facebook that are along the lines of 'have you had your 8th booster yet?' And then something about the gub'ment', Agenda 21, Moderna and Bill Gates.

I actually think we probably reached peak average intelligence about 10 to 20 years after the internet became popular. And then vested interests realised you could say anything to anybody with no restrictions at all with predictable consequences.

The rise in flat earth beliefs as an example is just baffling. The movie Idiocracy is becoming more like a documentary every day.
 
I'm on the local weather watch page in my town. Every other day some fucking clown is on there talking about chemtrails and weather engineering and how the gub'ment makes it rain whenever you want. When you ask them why we still have droughts that the government then has to pay out billions in supports it's just crickets or a link to a cloud seeding page somewhere as if that means 'case closed'.

And it's not 1 or 2 either, there's dozens of the stupid pricks.

The only thing I'd say to that is they were here first and were dispossessed (along with everything else that happened to them) and that is different to everyone else that was sent or chose to come here. I feel like some sort of recognition is deserved. I guess the argument is what does that 'recognition' involve?

And then he we are.

I'm all for helping the black fellas out. I know a lot of people are why should they get free education, free uni, free courses, grants for this grants for that.

For sure it's unfair. Why are they special?

But I guess I'd rather have a black fella getting a degree and a job and paying taxes for the next 50 years then being a train wreck for the rest of their lives and dragging their kids and family down with them. Costing the taxpayers orders of magnitude more in welfare, healthcare, incarcerations etc etc.

An upfront investment for a long term payoff. Given an either/or I'm going for helping them out.

You can run the same arguments for prisoners. Why are we paying for them to get an education and a trade in jail instead of punishing them? But they're going to be released one day. Do we really want them walking out the door and not be productive members of society?

Will the Voice help achieve a 'levelling up'?

I tend to think something is better than nothing. Enzo and Rusty will say they already get billions and that's a fair point. I'm not in Aboriginal affairs, I have nothing to do with policy, I don't know what is happening on the ground in every part of Australia and I think anyone saying they do know is talking out of their arse. I would say that I believe (or I want to believe) most people in these areas are trying to help.

"The only thing I'd say to that is they were here first and were dispossessed (along with everything else that happened to them) and that is different to everyone else that was sent or chose to come here. I feel like some sort of recognition is deserved. I guess the argument is what does that 'recognition' involve?"

Sorry mate, but that is plain wrong.... Speak to our wonderfully diverse Australian migrants about the reason why they "chose" to come here and you will hear many a tale of dispossession of land, theft, rape and murder...   My neighbour is a lovely Cypriot man and his wife who migrated here in 1974 after the Turkish army invaded his homeland and to this day remain as illegal occupiers of his actual house (a house that had been in his family for at least 5 generations)... that was 50 years ago.... let alone 250 years ago like British colonisation.  Or the Vietnamese bloke down the street that came here with his mum and sister on a boat in the late 70s when the Commies killed his dad and overtook Saigon and kicked them out... ...  Or our South Sudanese communities, or Lebanese in the 80s or ex Yugo countries etc etc etc etc.... fact is, the world over.... bad countries invade other countries and take whatever they want..... its not FAIR but it is human nature and history ..... To the victor go the spoils..... 

Truer words have not been spoken (typed) Its a scary as fuck world out there....  I always thought Idiocracy was a prophetci movie ... In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king and all that. 

Fair enough. You're right. We should stop trying with money and well intentioned people and use thoughts and prayers instead.

By the way why am I not surprised you're parroting One Nation talking points?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-07-28/fact-check-tony-abbott-niaa-voice-parliament/102656190

https://www.rmit.edu.au/news/factlab-meta/niaa-does-not-spend-$30b-on-indigenous-programs-annually

Truer words have not been spoken (typed) Its a scary as fuck world out there....  I always thought Idiocracy was a prophetci movie ... In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king and all that. 

Mate how many of these people do you thin are out there?  Seriously.

Its like the gender and identity nut jobs pushing their ideologies.  They're a blip in the overall population.   But unlike the flat earthers, these nutjobs have wormed and infested government and school campuses, making them far more influential and dangerous.  They're the ones you should be fearing, because their claws and tentacles reach far and wide and only growing.

Mate how many of these people do you thin are out there?  Seriously.

Its like the gender and identity nut jobs pushing their ideologies.  They're a blip in the overall population.   But unlike the flat earthers, these nutjobs have wormed and infested government and school campuses, making them far more influential and dangerous.  They're the ones you should be fearing, because their claws and tentacles reach far and wide and only growing.

1.  I didn't say that.

2. I know you like facts, except when they are facts you don't like.  I prefer actual government reports over media spin.  So here goes:

The $35  billion is accurate.

In 2015‑16, total direct government expenditure on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians was estimated to be $33.4 billion, a real increase from $27.0 billion in 2008‑09.

https://www.pc.gov.au/ongoing/indigenous-expenditure-report/2017

It includes all the spending that we all get, plus around and additional $7 billion.

The media articles you posted are limiting the spending to the budget of $4.5 billion given to the National Indigenous Australians Agency (NIAA) which provides advice to the prime minister and minister for Indigenous Australians, is tasked with coordinating the federal government's service delivery and policies with respect to First Nations Australians. 

Read that carefully: Mostly white middle class public servants charging the tax payer $4500000000 for "advice, policies and co-ordination" on indigenous people.    Every year. 

For comparison, the Fed Budget allocated just $5.7 Billion over 5 YEARS to build a stronger Medicare....for a populaion that will be pushing 30 million at the end of it.

Clearly, its not enough- how much more do you think we'll need?

Mate how many of these people do you thin are out there?  Seriously.

Its like the gender and identity nut jobs pushing their ideologies.  They're a blip in the overall population.   But unlike the flat earthers, these nutjobs have wormed and infested government and school campuses, making them far more influential and dangerous.  They're the ones you should be fearing, because their claws and tentacles reach far and wide and only growing.

The gap between Indigenous  folk and others in Aus are profound in education, health, housing and incarceration.

The Voice is a mechanism to close the gap. It is not for non-Indigenous Aussies to  find solutions and hand them down, but a  grass roots First Nations paradigm that Aboriginals have conceived and developing from Indigenous stakeholders on the ground.

The gap between Indigenous  folk and others in Aus are profound in education, health, housing and incarceration.

The Voice is a mechanism to close the gap. It is not for non-Indigenous Aussies to  find solutions and hand them down, but a  grass roots First Nations paradigm that Aboriginals have conceived and developing from Indigenous stakeholders on the ground.

The gap between Indigenous  folk and others in Aus are profound in education, health, housing and incarceration.

The Voice is a mechanism to close the gap. It is not for non-Indigenous Aussies to  find solutions and hand them down, but a  grass roots First Nations paradigm that Aboriginals have conceived and developing from Indigenous stakeholders on the ground.

Even though the Noalition has argued the Voice is nebulous and not specific, they use the same tactics the conservatives have over any past plebiscite or referendum.

Once The Voice is enshrined in the Constitution, the shape of it can evolve from there. It is simply an advisory body.

I was reading in the New Daily yesterday the No campaign has employed an American  company who have campaigned a lot for Trump, whose name I can't remember, to  devise strategies for  the No campaign.

In terms of being a progressive society, many of my Indigenous  comrades I've met through the Yes 23 Campaign,  claim they suffer inadvertent racism all the time - still. There is also supposedly a differential depending on which part of Australia one lives in terms of latent and blatant  racism.

The fact that you intend do vote No augurs poorly for the Yes campaign succeeding.  Given your previous posts over the years, I would have predicted you would vote Yes.

 It shows that the Trumpian  company's tactics  is indoctrinating Aussies successfully.

My main hope is on the doors, and the Pre- Poll booths, in the last 3 weeks until October 14th. There will be a plethora of Yes volunteers on Pre - Poll booths  for the early voters and voters on the day booths. Many won't  take up their mind until walking into the booths. Yes 23 has decidedly more volunteers than the likes of Advance Australia and the Noalition.  We will have more volunteers trying gto preside voters to vote Yes on the booths.

More and more Liberal MPs are supporting Yes. 

Many volunteers won't door knock, which has a  significant  impact. I've persuaded heaps of vacillating voters  to vote Yes knocking doors.

  It isn't 'white do-gooders' who've conceived The Voice. Many of us are supporting, and acting on, what over 80% of First Nations want. The First Nations conceived The Voice at the Uluru Statement of the Heart. 

 

Many volunteers won't door knock, which has a  significant  impact. I've persuaded heaps of vacillating voters  to vote Yes knocking doors.

The gap between Indigenous  folk and others in Aus are profound in education, health, housing and incarceration.

The Voice is a mechanism to close the gap. It is not for non-Indigenous Aussies to  find solutions and hand them down, but a  grass roots First Nations paradigm that Aboriginals have conceived and developing from Indigenous stakeholders on the ground.

Agreed, it is a "blip" now butt it is rapidly growing thats the point.... Dan Andrews just resigned and my phone is going crazy with dildos celebrating like its some kind of win against the "axis of evil" .....

Agreed, it is a "blip" now butt it is rapidly growing thats the point.... Dan Andrews just resigned and my phone is going crazy with dildos celebrating like its some kind of win against the "axis of evil" .....

Excellent, I am all for this, but why does it need to be "enshrined in the Constitution"? And why is the language around what the advisory "powers' that will flow from this arent made clear before we all give our oppinion on whether or not it should go ahead? 
Also, do we not have a minster for indigenous affairs? What is it that they are mandated to achieve exactly? Why does this "First Nations" paradigm need a constitutional involvement when it is, from what I can understand a mainly health, facilities and education issue?

I think your beloved party has misread the room, again. The language used (by both sides of the argument to be fair) is abusive, jingoistic and unnecessarily polemic. You state in a previous post, Labor's surprise at ABC and SBS's support of the No vote...... what did you really expect? A fair Australian society is for all to benefit from and enjoy the freedoms of and has not time for talk of stolen lands, reparations and appropriating blame for past generational transgressions. 

And for the record, Im not a feeble minded child to have a wobble boarding, door knocking idiot preach to me about what my opinion should be on a particular topic and will take very poorly to being interrupted in my daily life by some numpty trying to convince me one way or another. And as for falling under the spell of Trump advisory marketing companies..... Ill ignore the implied insult.