|
clockwork orange
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.3K,
Visits: 0
|
I look at the dross that’s been served up by Brisbane in recent seasons and for the life of me can’t understand why our coaches don’t follow an approach that has been proven in the A-league, J-league, SPL and now EPL? I’ve watched a few games from the Ange era and a few things I’ve noticed. 1. There was more structure. Players knew when they playing out of defence that other players would be in certain positions to receive the pass. Eg at a certain point in the attack, you’d know the full back would be on the touch line stretching the defence, No need to take an extra touch while making sure they’d be there. If they weren’t there, Ange would be up them. 2. Passing was more intentional and more accurate. Even passing across the backline, there was a clear aim to get the ball as quickly and accurately to the next player to stretch the opposition. None of this just playing a slow pass anywhere within 3 metres of the next player, making him turn around and slowing the play. 3. More urgency and care factor. When in possession the aim was to play quickly. Players sprinted into the position they knew they should be in. If someone didn’t do their job, Smith, Mckay or Steffanuto would be tearing them a new one. 4. A plan once they got in the final third. So much more movement again with players knowing how to move in a coordinated manner to create openings. So, why is no one trying to emulate the Ange game plan?
I think one problem is that it places high demands on players. To me it just feels that recent coaches have had lower expectations and don’t hold players to the same standards of play and disciplined application of tactics. Players look like they are going through the motions. Watching us go forward, it’s just a random shambles that at some point sees the front 3 stationary waiting for a midfielder to lob it in the box. I can barely watch games these days.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
SUTHERLANDBEAR
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.3K,
Visits: 0
|
Not every team has players good enough to play that way.
|
|
|
|
|
bohemia
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.3K,
Visits: 0
|
I've thought about this and it comes down to this for me. If you don't have the metal to play that way, copying it will be a cheap imitation. Ange will win with it and you'll get your arse kicked trying.
Just gotta be Ange to play Ange I'm afraid.
|
|
|
|
|
clockwork orange
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.3K,
Visits: 0
|
+xNot every team has players good enough to play that way. I do agree with that to an extent. But Ange didn’t have the players when he arrived at Brisbane. But because he had a game plan he could identify players that fit the plan, and not necessarily known stars. At the start of 2010/11 no one would have thought Brisbane had a squad to win the league (after finishing 9th the year before). The game plan/tactics made the sum better than the individual players.
|
|
|
|
|
bohemia
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.3K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+xNot every team has players good enough to play that way. I do agree with that to an extent. But Ange didn’t have the players when he arrived at Brisbane. But because he had a game plan he could identify players that fit the plan, and not necessarily known stars. At the start of 2010/11 no one would have thought Brisbane had a squad to win the league (after finishing 9th the year before). The game plan/tactics made the sum better than the individual players. You need to have the dressing room to get them to commit to that plan and to train the way you need to and be conditioned well enough to make it all work. Ange motivates people to do that. He got a minimum wage HAL squad to do that, he can motivate anyone. If someone like Ruben Zadkovich told me to run that hard, i'd tell him to go and get fucked and work at woolies.
|
|
|
|
|
grazorblade
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
Visits: 0
|
It's a good question - it has been a while since we had a possession focused team. Having said that in the champions league and advanced world cup stages, possession is getting less correlated with results. How fast you move the ball is more important, and teams will often be willing to concede possession with risky passes (like we do against top teams)
but Ange's success shows tikki takka is long from dead and can still be very effective
|
|
|
|
|
grazorblade
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
Visits: 0
|
the other thing about tikki takka is you need to sacrifice results in the short term to pull it off which means fans hating on you and you need to get your players and boss to buy in while pressure mounts
it takes a lot of stubborness and self belief from a coach to pull it off
|
|
|
|
|
Roar in me Blood
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.8K,
Visits: 0
|
John Aloisi had a very structured approach to coaching with us. The chessboard style 'if they go to this square you go to that'. When players got injured the backups were not good enough on the strategy to fill in on their own position let alone covering someone else's. There is a danger with Ange ball that if you make the system too complex it will only work when you have your first team on the field. Looking at our left fullback woes, we would have to have at least 4 players who understood the specific coach's left fullback role with the injuries we have had this season. The vision needs to be both clear enough and simple enough for your standard coach to explain it, and the coach has to be able to make the players believe it enough to practice unsuccessfully until they get it. If the coaches we see are good enough to explain and pass on their vision, why do so many of them stand on the sideline shouting so much? My guess is they just aren't Ange and have not been clear enough or drilled it over time enough - which would suggest that it is not as simple a thing as seeing Ange do it and trying the same thing. I am pretty sure Ange also was brilliant in the boardroom to convince them equally.
When I wear their colours, I am the club.
|
|
|
|
|
patjennings
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 6.7K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+xNot every team has players good enough to play that way. I do agree with that to an extent. But Ange didn’t have the players when he arrived at Brisbane. But because he had a game plan he could identify players that fit the plan, and not necessarily known stars. At the start of 2010/11 no one would have thought Brisbane had a squad to win the league (after finishing 9th the year before). The game plan/tactics made the sum better than the individual players. Ange took a probable top 6 team from Farina to avoid the spoon on the last day (I think) when he first took over in the 2009/2010 season. However. by the end of that season he knew who he needed to move on and who could adapt. He brought in more than a dozen new players that he thought could play the way he wanted, including Thomas Broich and importantly much better keepers. The reasons people doubted him in spite of his success at South Melbourne was the Foster interview and the poor run in 2009/2010. I'm sure the squad that survived the 2009/2010 season and saw the type of player coming in were reasonably confident that they would do very well considering they had the form before Farina left to finish in the top 6 and they had recruited to suit the managers style.
|
|
|
|
roosty
|
|
Group: Banned Members
Posts: 758,
Visits: 0
|
Most managers, not just in the A league but all over, including EPL are pragmatists. They will play according to their strengths and adjust tactics according to situation, opposition, conditions etc. Ange though is an idealist, the strength is his system and there are no tactics just tactic, which is to play attacking football regardless of the situation. Ange’s approach requires discipline, patience and courage and most coaches don’t have that, so when they try to play like Ange they inevitably concede goals and lose games, and inevitably default back to playing pragmatic football.
|
|
|
|
|
Coverdale
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.2K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+xNot every team has players good enough to play that way. I do agree with that to an extent. But Ange didn’t have the players when he arrived at Brisbane. But because he had a game plan he could identify players that fit the plan, and not necessarily known stars. At the start of 2010/11 no one would have thought Brisbane had a squad to win the league (after finishing 9th the year before). The game plan/tactics made the sum better than the individual players. You need to have the dressing room to get them to commit to that plan and to train the way you need to and be conditioned well enough to make it all work. Ange motivates people to do that. He got a minimum wage HAL squad to do that, he can motivate anyone. If someone like Ruben Zadkovich told me to run that hard, i'd tell him to go and get fucked and work at woolies. 😂
|
|
|
|
|
Booney
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 674,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+xNot every team has players good enough to play that way. I do agree with that to an extent. But Ange didn’t have the players when he arrived at Brisbane. But because he had a game plan he could identify players that fit the plan, and not necessarily known stars. At the start of 2010/11 no one would have thought Brisbane had a squad to win the league (after finishing 9th the year before). The game plan/tactics made the sum better than the individual players. You need to have the dressing room to get them to commit to that plan and to train the way you need to and be conditioned well enough to make it all work. Ange motivates people to do that. He got a minimum wage HAL squad to do that, he can motivate anyone. If someone like Ruben Zadkovich told me to run that hard, i'd tell him to go and get fucked and work at woolies. But then he might punch you out like he did with Giordano Colli!
|
|
|
|
|
Decentric 2
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.1K,
Visits: 0
|
+xI look at the dross that’s been served up by Brisbane in recent seasons and for the life of me can’t understand why our coaches don’t follow an approach that has been proven in the A-league, J-league, SPL and now EPL? I’ve watched a few games from the Ange era and a few things I’ve noticed. 1. There was more structure. Players knew when they playing out of defence that other players would be in certain positions to receive the pass. Eg at a certain point in the attack, you’d know the full back would be on the touch line stretching the defence, No need to take an extra touch while making sure they’d be there. If they weren’t there, Ange would be up them. 2. Passing was more intentional and more accurate. Even passing across the backline, there was a clear aim to get the ball as quickly and accurately to the next player to stretch the opposition. None of this just playing a slow pass anywhere within 3 metres of the next player, making him turn around and slowing the play. 3. More urgency and care factor. When in possession the aim was to play quickly. Players sprinted into the position they knew they should be in. If someone didn’t do their job, Smith, Mckay or Steffanuto would be tearing them a new one. 4. A plan once they got in the final third. So much more movement again with players knowing how to move in a coordinated manner to create openings. So, why is no one trying to emulate the Ange game plan?
I think one problem is that it places high demands on players. To me it just feels that recent coaches have had lower expectations and don’t hold players to the same standards of play and disciplined application of tactics. Players look like they are going through the motions. Watching us go forward, it’s just a random shambles that at some point sees the front 3 stationary waiting for a midfielder to lob it in the box. I can barely watch games these days.
Watching Melb Vic in the last few weeks, they would easily beat Ange's AL Roar team. They'd disturb the Roar build ups much earlier - like FC Tokyo did in the ACL. Since the Ange Roar era, AL teams have improved in Squeezing and Pressing game plans. The ball movement/ball circulation has had to increase in speed to play through the improved AL team off the ball ability. It was good for the AL that Ange coached Roar to play like they did.
|
|
|
|
|
Monoethnic Social Club
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
Visits: 0
|
+xI look at the dross that’s been served up by Brisbane in recent seasons and for the life of me can’t understand why our coaches don’t follow an approach that has been proven in the A-league, J-league, SPL and now EPL? I’ve watched a few games from the Ange era and a few things I’ve noticed. 1. There was more structure. Players knew when they playing out of defence that other players would be in certain positions to receive the pass. Eg at a certain point in the attack, you’d know the full back would be on the touch line stretching the defence, No need to take an extra touch while making sure they’d be there. If they weren’t there, Ange would be up them. 2. Passing was more intentional and more accurate. Even passing across the backline, there was a clear aim to get the ball as quickly and accurately to the next player to stretch the opposition. None of this just playing a slow pass anywhere within 3 metres of the next player, making him turn around and slowing the play. 3. More urgency and care factor. When in possession the aim was to play quickly. Players sprinted into the position they knew they should be in. If someone didn’t do their job, Smith, Mckay or Steffanuto would be tearing them a new one. 4. A plan once they got in the final third. So much more movement again with players knowing how to move in a coordinated manner to create openings. So, why is no one trying to emulate the Ange game plan?
I think one problem is that it places high demands on players. To me it just feels that recent coaches have had lower expectations and don’t hold players to the same standards of play and disciplined application of tactics. Players look like they are going through the motions. Watching us go forward, it’s just a random shambles that at some point sees the front 3 stationary waiting for a midfielder to lob it in the box. I can barely watch games these days.
Its not about emulating a game plan but rather of being coached to have the football nous to adapt a plan to the opponent, the league, the players, the expectations and the style you want to play. Like I posted in the other thread, the incumbent milieu is fucking stupid and repeating the same old cliched jargony "geggenpressich uber ales" garbage. We are falling behind not only Asia but the rest of the world... Reddit is happy that we beat India but so nothing will ever get done about it. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0285871
|
|
|
|
|
robbos
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.8K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+xI look at the dross that’s been served up by Brisbane in recent seasons and for the life of me can’t understand why our coaches don’t follow an approach that has been proven in the A-league, J-league, SPL and now EPL? I’ve watched a few games from the Ange era and a few things I’ve noticed. 1. There was more structure. Players knew when they playing out of defence that other players would be in certain positions to receive the pass. Eg at a certain point in the attack, you’d know the full back would be on the touch line stretching the defence, No need to take an extra touch while making sure they’d be there. If they weren’t there, Ange would be up them. 2. Passing was more intentional and more accurate. Even passing across the backline, there was a clear aim to get the ball as quickly and accurately to the next player to stretch the opposition. None of this just playing a slow pass anywhere within 3 metres of the next player, making him turn around and slowing the play. 3. More urgency and care factor. When in possession the aim was to play quickly. Players sprinted into the position they knew they should be in. If someone didn’t do their job, Smith, Mckay or Steffanuto would be tearing them a new one. 4. A plan once they got in the final third. So much more movement again with players knowing how to move in a coordinated manner to create openings. So, why is no one trying to emulate the Ange game plan?
I think one problem is that it places high demands on players. To me it just feels that recent coaches have had lower expectations and don’t hold players to the same standards of play and disciplined application of tactics. Players look like they are going through the motions. Watching us go forward, it’s just a random shambles that at some point sees the front 3 stationary waiting for a midfielder to lob it in the box. I can barely watch games these days.
Watching Melb Vic in the last few weeks, they would easily beat Ange's AL Roar team. They'd disturb the Roar build ups much earlier - like FC Tokyo did in the ACL. Since the Ange Roar era, AL teams have improved in Squeezing and Pressing game plans. The ball movement/ball circulation has had to increase to play through the improved AL team off the ball ability. It was good for the AL that Ange coached Roar to play like they did. Yes 100%, Ange showed the rest of the A-League coaches what to do. I watched a very good game SFC v AU in the Untile round & both those teams would smash Ange's AL Roar team. The players are better now, we just lack The football played in the A-League right now is off the highest standard football wise than ever before, we are heading in the right direction. The young players coming thru now Irakunda, G Kuol, Johnny Yull, Neiwenhof, Yasbek, Baccus, O'Neill, all have high technical skill. The unfortunate thing is we came from a low base, as some Brazilian fans told me in 2006 of our wonderful Golden generation, you play rugby football, tough, uncompromising but ugly football. Our first touch has always been poor & we are only now seeing some improvement.
|
|
|
|
|
Barca4Life
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 13K,
Visits: 0
|
Ange is he's own man but I dont think there is many coaches in this country that can play that expansive possession game which Ange is known for.
Alot of coaches tend to play more balanced but rigid tactics which will get them results but maybe wont produce the best football, in fact alot of league here is very transitional which makes for open games which requires alot of running in the process.
I remember we had coaches like Gombau, JVS, Mulvey who got their teams playing nice possession based football whilst we also had Arnie, Popa as more pragmatic coaches so the balance was quite good in terms of tactics and approaches.
But these days it seems too similar with how teams play.
|
|
|
|
|
Decentric 2
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.1K,
Visits: 0
|
+xMost managers, not just in the A league but all over, including EPL are pragmatists. They will play according to their strengths and adjust tactics according to situation, opposition, conditions etc. Ange though is an idealist, the strength is his system and there are no tactics just tactic, which is to play attacking football regardless of the situation. Ange’s approach requires discipline, patience and courage and most coaches don’t have that, so when they try to play like Ange they inevitably concede goals and lose games, and inevitably default back to playing pragmatic football. This might be the best post you've made, Roosty! Look forward to more of the same!
|
|
|
|
|
Decentric 2
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.1K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+xI look at the dross that’s been served up by Brisbane in recent seasons and for the life of me can’t understand why our coaches don’t follow an approach that has been proven in the A-league, J-league, SPL and now EPL? I’ve watched a few games from the Ange era and a few things I’ve noticed. 1. There was more structure. Players knew when they playing out of defence that other players would be in certain positions to receive the pass. Eg at a certain point in the attack, you’d know the full back would be on the touch line stretching the defence, No need to take an extra touch while making sure they’d be there. If they weren’t there, Ange would be up them. 2. Passing was more intentional and more accurate. Even passing across the backline, there was a clear aim to get the ball as quickly and accurately to the next player to stretch the opposition. None of this just playing a slow pass anywhere within 3 metres of the next player, making him turn around and slowing the play. 3. More urgency and care factor. When in possession the aim was to play quickly. Players sprinted into the position they knew they should be in. If someone didn’t do their job, Smith, Mckay or Steffanuto would be tearing them a new one. 4. A plan once they got in the final third. So much more movement again with players knowing how to move in a coordinated manner to create openings. So, why is no one trying to emulate the Ange game plan?
I think one problem is that it places high demands on players. To me it just feels that recent coaches have had lower expectations and don’t hold players to the same standards of play and disciplined application of tactics. Players look like they are going through the motions. Watching us go forward, it’s just a random shambles that at some point sees the front 3 stationary waiting for a midfielder to lob it in the box. I can barely watch games these days.
Watching Melb Vic in the last few weeks, they would easily beat Ange's AL Roar team. They'd disturb the Roar build ups much earlier - like FC Tokyo did in the ACL. Since the Ange Roar era, AL teams have improved in Squeezing and Pressing game plans. The ball movement/ball circulation has had to increase to play through the improved AL team off the ball ability. It was good for the AL that Ange coached Roar to play like they did. Yes 100%, Ange showed the rest of the A-League coaches what to do. I watched a very good game SFC v AU in the Untile round & both those teams would smash Ange's AL Roar team. The players are better now, we just lack The football played in the A-League right now is off the highest standard football wise than ever before, we are heading in the right direction. The young players coming thru now Irakunda, G Kuol, Johnny Yull, Neiwenhof, Yasbek, Baccus, O'Neill, all have high technical skill. The unfortunate thing is we came from a low base, as some Brazilian fans told me in 2006 of our wonderful Golden generation, you play rugby football, tough, uncompromising but ugly football. Our first touch has always been poor & we are only now seeing some improvement. Enjoy reading this - a positive and accurate post about the evolution of the AL. The main issue, according to Arnie, is the short AL season. Arnie claims he watches better football in the AL than many overseas leagues. He views them on a weekly basis to appraise potential Socceroo players.
|
|
|
|
|
LFC.
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 13K,
Visits: 0
|
I sometimes wonder why I don't have rose coloured glass's on - very much behind our game here but like the OP C/O (a devoted BR supporter) why does he see it this way. Wonder which OS leagues GA is watching below 29th ranking ( if this is a legit site) https://www.globalfootballrankings.com/We haven't needed Arnie to mention the game lacks a proper long season that also incl a finals to make it worthwhile. How many times have we not seen young promising players in the past ? Arzani was the next best thing before Irakunda, Koul etc.... Pretatos Gersbach - sad such potential Ikon King got Young Footballer of the year in 21, we know this is a fizzer. Jeggo ? Thurgate please add many other fellas for there is more....... I would expect we are heading in the right direction after all this time but we are still way behind as well.
Love Football
|
|
|
|
|
robbos
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.8K,
Visits: 0
|
+xI sometimes wonder why I don't have rose coloured glass's on - very much behind our game here but like the OP C/O (a devoted BR supporter) why does he see it this way. Wonder which OS leagues GA is watching below 29th ranking ( if this is a legit site) https://www.globalfootballrankings.com/We haven't needed Arnie to mention the game lacks a proper long season that also incl a finals to make it worthwhile. How many times have we not seen young promising players in the past ? Arzani was the next best thing before Irakunda, Koul etc.... Pretatos Gersbach - sad such potential Ikon King got Young Footballer of the year in 21, we know this is a fizzer. Jeggo ? Thurgate please add many other fellas for there is more....... I would expect we are heading in the right direction after all this time but we are still way behind as well. It's all in the beholder my dear friend. My Liverpool friends told me the Hendo was this great player, I just saw a runner. He ran his little heart out for Klopp or 3-4 years won a couple of trophies. Now gets a gig in Saudi, you can't run in the heat, a complete failure. BTW Azani and Ikon both had massive ACLs, neither recovered very well. Though Azani now finding a bit more form. Don't know what happened to Gersbach. the others were always just good A-League players.
|
|
|
|
|
theFOOTBALLlover
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.4K,
Visits: 0
|
There are plenty of reasons why others have not copied him: different football philosophy, football IQ, different experiences and different personality to convince/ motivate players and staff to follow regardless of early setbacks.
|
|
|
|
|
clockwork orange
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.3K,
Visits: 0
|
People saying players are better and todays A-league teams would beat Ange’s Roar are totally missing the the point. My point is his playing style is still succeeding internationally, but no one else is playing anything close to it. Had to chuckle that apparently current A league opposition would have all the answers against an Ange coached team - it’s just EPL teams and coaches that don’t.
|
|
|
|
|
grazorblade
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+xI sometimes wonder why I don't have rose coloured glass's on - very much behind our game here but like the OP C/O (a devoted BR supporter) why does he see it this way. Wonder which OS leagues GA is watching below 29th ranking ( if this is a legit site) https://www.globalfootballrankings.com/We haven't needed Arnie to mention the game lacks a proper long season that also incl a finals to make it worthwhile. How many times have we not seen young promising players in the past ? Arzani was the next best thing before Irakunda, Koul etc.... Pretatos Gersbach - sad such potential Ikon King got Young Footballer of the year in 21, we know this is a fizzer. Jeggo ? Thurgate please add many other fellas for there is more....... I would expect we are heading in the right direction after all this time but we are still way behind as well. It's all in the beholder my dear friend. My Liverpool friends told me the Hendo was this great player, I just saw a runner. He ran his little heart out for Klopp or 3-4 years won a couple of trophies. Now gets a gig in Saudi, you can't run in the heat, a complete failure. BTW Azani and Ikon both had massive ACLs, neither recovered very well. Though Azani now finding a bit more form. Don't know what happened to Gersbach. the others were always just good A-League players. Boyle only recently showed glimpses of his pre acl form Kruse never recovered Arzani and borello are rebounding only now they are in a familiar environment If you do your acl come home (scotland in boyles case) until u recover form
|
|
|
|
|
Monoethnic Social Club
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+xI sometimes wonder why I don't have rose coloured glass's on - very much behind our game here but like the OP C/O (a devoted BR supporter) why does he see it this way. Wonder which OS leagues GA is watching below 29th ranking ( if this is a legit site) https://www.globalfootballrankings.com/We haven't needed Arnie to mention the game lacks a proper long season that also incl a finals to make it worthwhile. How many times have we not seen young promising players in the past ? Arzani was the next best thing before Irakunda, Koul etc.... Pretatos Gersbach - sad such potential Ikon King got Young Footballer of the year in 21, we know this is a fizzer. Jeggo ? Thurgate please add many other fellas for there is more....... I would expect we are heading in the right direction after all this time but we are still way behind as well. It's all in the beholder my dear friend. My Liverpool friends told me the Hendo was this great player, I just saw a runner. He ran his little heart out for Klopp or 3-4 years won a couple of trophies. Now gets a gig in Saudi, you can't run in the heat, a complete failure. BTW Azani and Ikon both had massive ACLs, neither recovered very well. Though Azani now finding a bit more form. Don't know what happened to Gersbach. the others were always just good A-League players. Boyle only recently showed glimpses of his pre acl form Kruse never recovered Arzani and borello are rebounding only now they are in a familiar environment If you do your acl come home (scotland in boyles case) until u recover form Lol .... cheeky but true.
|
|
|
|
|
clockwork orange
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.3K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+xI look at the dross that’s been served up by Brisbane in recent seasons and for the life of me can’t understand why our coaches don’t follow an approach that has been proven in the A-league, J-league, SPL and now EPL? I’ve watched a few games from the Ange era and a few things I’ve noticed. 1. There was more structure. Players knew when they playing out of defence that other players would be in certain positions to receive the pass. Eg at a certain point in the attack, you’d know the full back would be on the touch line stretching the defence, No need to take an extra touch while making sure they’d be there. If they weren’t there, Ange would be up them. 2. Passing was more intentional and more accurate. Even passing across the backline, there was a clear aim to get the ball as quickly and accurately to the next player to stretch the opposition. None of this just playing a slow pass anywhere within 3 metres of the next player, making him turn around and slowing the play. 3. More urgency and care factor. When in possession the aim was to play quickly. Players sprinted into the position they knew they should be in. If someone didn’t do their job, Smith, Mckay or Steffanuto would be tearing them a new one. 4. A plan once they got in the final third. So much more movement again with players knowing how to move in a coordinated manner to create openings. So, why is no one trying to emulate the Ange game plan?
I think one problem is that it places high demands on players. To me it just feels that recent coaches have had lower expectations and don’t hold players to the same standards of play and disciplined application of tactics. Players look like they are going through the motions. Watching us go forward, it’s just a random shambles that at some point sees the front 3 stationary waiting for a midfielder to lob it in the box. I can barely watch games these days.
Watching Melb Vic in the last few weeks, they would easily beat Ange's AL Roar team. They'd disturb the Roar build ups much earlier - like FC Tokyo did in the ACL. Since the Ange Roar era, AL teams have improved in Squeezing and Pressing game plans. The ball movement/ball circulation has had to increase to play through the improved AL team off the ball ability. It was good for the AL that Ange coached Roar to play like they did. The football played in the A-League right now is off the highest standard football wise than ever before, we are heading in the right direction.. Love your optimism. Would love to know your criteria. I think the defences are weaker which does add to the excitement. From a Brisbane perspective I reckon O’Shea is the only player that’d be a regular in our sides under Ange a decade or so ago. The ‘highest standard ever’ doesn’t seem to translate to A League teams being close to winning the AFC. You don’t think the quality was better when we had players like Ono, Broich, Mierzewski, Berisha, Hernandez in the league. These days, what players would you go to watch? Fornoroli and Barbarouses in their twilight years still better than all the up and coming young strikers. Ben Halloran has most assists. 😂
I do respect your analysis of the game. But I am honestly wondering about the basis for your claim.
|
|
|
|
|
robbos
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.8K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+x+xI look at the dross that’s been served up by Brisbane in recent seasons and for the life of me can’t understand why our coaches don’t follow an approach that has been proven in the A-league, J-league, SPL and now EPL? I’ve watched a few games from the Ange era and a few things I’ve noticed. 1. There was more structure. Players knew when they playing out of defence that other players would be in certain positions to receive the pass. Eg at a certain point in the attack, you’d know the full back would be on the touch line stretching the defence, No need to take an extra touch while making sure they’d be there. If they weren’t there, Ange would be up them. 2. Passing was more intentional and more accurate. Even passing across the backline, there was a clear aim to get the ball as quickly and accurately to the next player to stretch the opposition. None of this just playing a slow pass anywhere within 3 metres of the next player, making him turn around and slowing the play. 3. More urgency and care factor. When in possession the aim was to play quickly. Players sprinted into the position they knew they should be in. If someone didn’t do their job, Smith, Mckay or Steffanuto would be tearing them a new one. 4. A plan once they got in the final third. So much more movement again with players knowing how to move in a coordinated manner to create openings. So, why is no one trying to emulate the Ange game plan?
I think one problem is that it places high demands on players. To me it just feels that recent coaches have had lower expectations and don’t hold players to the same standards of play and disciplined application of tactics. Players look like they are going through the motions. Watching us go forward, it’s just a random shambles that at some point sees the front 3 stationary waiting for a midfielder to lob it in the box. I can barely watch games these days.
Watching Melb Vic in the last few weeks, they would easily beat Ange's AL Roar team. They'd disturb the Roar build ups much earlier - like FC Tokyo did in the ACL. Since the Ange Roar era, AL teams have improved in Squeezing and Pressing game plans. The ball movement/ball circulation has had to increase to play through the improved AL team off the ball ability. It was good for the AL that Ange coached Roar to play like they did. The football played in the A-League right now is off the highest standard football wise than ever before, we are heading in the right direction.. Love your optimism. Would love to know your criteria. I think the defences are weaker which does add to the excitement. From a Brisbane perspective I reckon O’Shea is the only player that’d be a regular in our sides under Ange a decade or so ago. The ‘highest standard ever’ doesn’t seem to translate to A League teams being close to winning the AFC. You don’t think the quality was better when we had players like Ono, Broich, Mierzewski, Berisha, Hernandez in the league. These days, what players would you go to watch? Fornoroli and Barbarouses in their twilight years still better than all the up and coming young strikers. Ben Halloran has most assists. 😂
I do respect your analysis of the game. But I am honestly wondering about the basis for your claim. Firstly let me clear I'm not knocking the Ange BR side.. IMO the best club team to play in Australia ever & they changed the way football is played in this country. As for Ange, the fact he is coaching one of the biggest clubs in the world shows his quality & I'm a HUGE Ange fan. Now let address players, Joe Lolley & Robbie Mak from SFC, Tolgay Arslan Melb City, Marcelo & Antosson from WSW, Davila from Macarthur, Tulio from CCM (just left them) are just as good as the players you mentioned (maybe not Broich). Aussies like Azani ,Leckie & Goodwin from last year, youngsters like Teague, Toure, Farrell, L Brook & Irankuda (I have to keep reminding myself he is only 17 years old), he is the best 17 year old I have seen in the A-league. Now Playing style, no doubt you prefer players who won all before them in Ange's years to the current team, just like I prefer the players from the Golden Generation to the current crop of Socceroos, but the playing style is different, it's very much more possession type game, look at Baccus & even O'Neill, their ball distribution is far better & faster than either Grella or Jedinak, though the latter 2 had other attributes. I watched very closely the Adelaide United V SFC game in the Unite round the speed of the passing & the decision making intelligence of the players are far superior to Ange's team of 10 years ago. Funny you laugh at Halloran, from the same game, check out his header that set up the AU's big striker for his 2nd goal. This is what I'm talking about. For many years our ball movement was to pump it long, Barcelona changed that world wide & Roarcelona changed that in Australia, we are now finally getting players with the ability to move the ball quickly (Xavi style), not perfect but heading in right direction. Look at the players in midfield that can do that Baccus, O'Neil, Neiuwenhof, Yazbek, Mcgree,Teague & Jake Hollman. What we do lack is creative attacking midfielders (at least in quality) & Strikers.
|
|
|
|
|
LFC.
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 13K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+xI sometimes wonder why I don't have rose coloured glass's on - very much behind our game here but like the OP C/O (a devoted BR supporter) why does he see it this way. Wonder which OS leagues GA is watching below 29th ranking ( if this is a legit site) https://www.globalfootballrankings.com/We haven't needed Arnie to mention the game lacks a proper long season that also incl a finals to make it worthwhile. How many times have we not seen young promising players in the past ? Arzani was the next best thing before Irakunda, Koul etc.... Pretatos Gersbach - sad such potential Ikon King got Young Footballer of the year in 21, we know this is a fizzer. Jeggo ? Thurgate please add many other fellas for there is more....... I would expect we are heading in the right direction after all this time but we are still way behind as well. It's all in the beholder my dear friend. My Liverpool friends told me the Hendo was this great player, I just saw a runner. He ran his little heart out for Klopp or 3-4 years won a couple of trophies. Now gets a gig in Saudi, you can't run in the heat, a complete failure. BTW Azani and Ikon both had massive ACLs, neither recovered very well. Though Azani now finding a bit more form. Don't know what happened to Gersbach. the others were always just good A-League players. yes beauty is in the eye of the beholder so true..... Re recovering from ACL's talking Ikon/Arzani. At their levels and the best of care they get once back on the park its all the mental process battle onwards and I get that completely. I the mere grassroots mortal gone through it as well and know first hand what goes through my hopeless brain once back. Took me a season to get back to myself whereas they, its interesting how long for as mentioned they have the best of daily care for recovery then the mental process support. Arzani has taken sometime to get back to comfort which is finally starting to show - good on him very glad its coming. Haven't been keeping tabs on ikon lately but I suspect similar to Arzani. Footballers who have recovered and shifted into their next gear post ACL Shearer ADP Ruud Baggio Keane Xavi Totti VVD - I mention these top flighters more so that they are full on targets to stop in games and cop how many suspect heavy late tackles, one such as Keane was a giver more than taker haha... Anyway as mentioned hope our 2 get back to form sooner than later for its taking longer than it should. haha your LFC fun with your mates, keep at them. robbos I agree that SFC/AU game was good viewing - yes I watched it. SFC was ripping them most of the 1st half and my how counters turn games. I agree that 2nd goal set up by ol man Halloran (top player here still and above the young ones most times) that reverse on the turn running header was a GEM, of a player without looking knowing where his support was - Ibusuki (a import @ 32yrs). Those 2 guys pulled most of the strings rest of that game might I add imo. Also a game as such only occurs now and then here to me.
Love Football
|
|
|
|
|
robbos
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.8K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+xI sometimes wonder why I don't have rose coloured glass's on - very much behind our game here but like the OP C/O (a devoted BR supporter) why does he see it this way. Wonder which OS leagues GA is watching below 29th ranking ( if this is a legit site) https://www.globalfootballrankings.com/We haven't needed Arnie to mention the game lacks a proper long season that also incl a finals to make it worthwhile. How many times have we not seen young promising players in the past ? Arzani was the next best thing before Irakunda, Koul etc.... Pretatos Gersbach - sad such potential Ikon King got Young Footballer of the year in 21, we know this is a fizzer. Jeggo ? Thurgate please add many other fellas for there is more....... I would expect we are heading in the right direction after all this time but we are still way behind as well. It's all in the beholder my dear friend. My Liverpool friends told me the Hendo was this great player, I just saw a runner. He ran his little heart out for Klopp or 3-4 years won a couple of trophies. Now gets a gig in Saudi, you can't run in the heat, a complete failure. BTW Azani and Ikon both had massive ACLs, neither recovered very well. Though Azani now finding a bit more form. Don't know what happened to Gersbach. the others were always just good A-League players. yes beauty is in the eye of the beholder so true..... Re recovering from ACL's talking Ikon/Arzani. At their levels and the best of care they get once back on the park its all the mental process battle onwards and I get that completely. I the mere grassroots mortal gone through it as well and know first hand what goes through my hopeless brain once back. Took me a season to get back to myself whereas they, its interesting how long for as mentioned they have the best of daily care for recovery then the mental process support. Arzani has taken sometime to get back to comfort which is finally starting to show - good on him very glad its coming. Haven't been keeping tabs on ikon lately but I suspect similar to Arzani. Footballers who have recovered and shifted into their next gear post ACL Shearer ADP Ruud Baggio Keane Xavi Totti VVD - I mention these top flighters more so that they are full on targets to stop in games and cop how many suspect heavy late tackles, one such as Keane was a giver more than taker haha... Anyway as mentioned hope our 2 get back to form sooner than later for its taking longer than it should. haha your LFC fun with your mates, keep at them. robbos I agree that SFC/AU game was good viewing - yes I watched it. SFC was ripping them most of the 1st half and my how counters turn games. I agree that 2nd goal set up by ol man Halloran (top player here still and above the young ones most times) that reverse on the turn running header was a GEM, of a player without looking knowing where his support was - Ibusuki (a import @ 32yrs). Those 2 guys pulled most of the strings rest of that game might I add imo. Also a game as such only occurs now and then here to me. Yes mate, as you can imagine, tough for me with you guys top of the table. Glad to see Nunez scoring, he is a top class player will be firing very soon. Huge wraps on him, big, strong fast like Haarland, just not as consistent, but top top player. Halloran header was pure class despite it being against my beloved SFC. Have another look at Adelaide united, Johnny Yull was also part of the play that pulled the strings, Irakunda, had to keep reminding myself he is only 17 years old, he was toying with the defence, he has the pace, skill & awareness, it's really solely now up to him whether he wants to playing at the highest level, it's takes mental strength as we both know. But he is the best 17 year old I've seen since Kewell & Dukes. Big call, yes. will he make it, he has to work hard.
|
|
|
|
|
jas88
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5.8K,
Visits: 0
|
you dont need that god of players to play Ange's style imo.
You need a ball playing CB, speed on your fullbacks and someone decent on the ball to play as a 10/8 the rest is all about pace.
The fact aussies coaches cant do this is crazy... I dont think we know how to spot talent... one example is Kisnorbo... who sent Savio out on loan... the same Savio tearing it up for Girona this year and looks like he will go Barca or RM in the off season lol
We just suck at talent identification. Throw the handbook out and start again.
|
|
|
|
|
Enzo Bearzot
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
|
+xyou dont need that god of players to play Ange's style imo. You need a ball playing CB, speed on your fullbacks and someone decent on the ball to play as a 10/8 the rest is all about pace. The fact aussies coaches cant do this is crazy... I dont think we know how to spot talent... one example is Kisnorbo... who sent Savio out on loan... the same Savio tearing it up for Girona this year and looks like he will go Barca or RM in the off season lol We just suck at talent identification. Throw the handbook out and start again. Kisnorbo also screwed over Colakovski. He was actually ahead of Tilio at City, had a great grand final, and then Kisnorbo benched him the next season when he needed to game time to develop. No surprise he was found out what a shit coach he is in France.
|
|
|
|