Fitness training was the means of warming up first 10/15 before getting onto ball work that compeletely makes sense.
Warming up today pre game is small sided one touch, we've been doing that for years as well as warming up the GK and shooting.
I'd say for all the ol days was fitness training for a while - maybe not Div1 (EPL) kind of leagues but would be curious to know for the heck of it.

Back on que and maybe not the mirror of Japan one day in the future there is the development system same top to bottom so everyone is on the same page so to speak for I don't think it is, the FA have to smash heads of the Feds down so its all for one.
There should be somesort of link to school football - I don't recall any Clubs making any appearance during my 2 lads the last 10/12yrs.
Rep/Clubs management picking kids whose parent/s have influnce amongst the Club re donations - this is quite big imo, needs to get stamped out for many who are likely better players are being screwed.
The $ is driving decisions way too much at Rep/NPL levels for a long time due our lack of financial support down to grass roots.

Eh, I can't quote across two pages - so will just respond to Grazor's

Yeah, I'm in a weird spot where I only played organised games from U13s (2004) through to a couple years open age (2010), across two different clubs in Griffith.
The first club (13-15), training was very ball skills focused. Warm up laps around the oval etc, yes - but always with a ball. Passing drills, dribbling drills, game situation drills.

When I moved clubs at U16 level (stayed with them until I moved to Canberra), there was a much more fitness and conditioning approach to the beginning of training. 10 laps with staggered jog/sprint/walk sections. I actually rate that even now, as it did help with match-fitness through the seasons. I remember after the first couple training sessions (because I was one of the couple fattys) I could hardly even last a lap or two. By the end of the season, the 10 laps actually felt like a warm-up.
After that though, training was much like at the other club, dribbling and passing drills, then game situations. Sometimes followed up by small sided games.

I remember 6 aside was introduced to cairns when i was 15 and i played a bit with friends we played on a full court pitch under lights. That was around the turn of the century

It sounds like u had small sided games back then which is good! There was probably quite a bit of variety in training though it does sound like fitness training without a ball was common to both of our experiences. In england they dont have ball free fitness training either, not sure if this was always the case or new. 

The nc does promote getting up to speed with fitness using ball drills, but i suspect this is what everyone does these days?

Nobody should be getting edited FULL STOP.

FFS!

As a grassroots noob i can confirm :D 
I also got much more out of it than the comparable stuff in england

There are zillions of problems in auatralian football, a great resource for teaching coaching probably isnt one of them. Would be brilliant if we had a pathway for school kids that miss out on academies the way japan do

This is extremely worrying.

Decentric on the warpath again?

Cut it out clown.

I didn't say you were saying that. 

I said it makes me laugh when old bitters say the NC is doing nothing but producing robots.

True. There wouldn't.

The NC isn't prescriptive in any case.

I wouldn't hesitate to guess that 90% of the embittered old blokes complaining about the NC who bleat endlessly about 'the NC producing robots' have never read the NC.

It's a great resource for any coach, particularly a grassroots noob. Any other coach that knows their stuff can use it as a starting point and modify it as they see fit.

Are people suggesting there are NC FA policeman checking every club in Australia for compliance? 

NCB interesting your youth experience through your era that I find quite opposite to mine.
Lets go further back, back in my day, I went to a Gov school, we played the Tasman Cup as it was called back then.
There was no issue if you were a Rep player back then.
I can't really recall how many games but that it was but a inter school comp.

My local Club down the road from home was one of the stronger Clubs of the Association those days, 70/80's.
From U10 on you had Dads as gaffas and some were ex players or in the know of the game.
This was Club Div1.
Some of them ended up being Rep coachs through those formative years.
Now our training back then, yep fitness was an objective, we actually started by doing 10laps of the 2oval reserve.
I never minded that for fitness isone key of the game, even running single file last man would sprint to the front and repeat.
We used alot of ball, juggling, trapping, heading practice And shooting prac obviously great for the keeper as well.
Alot of forwards/mids vs the defense/keeper plays - in today called small sided games with purpose looking for a finish !
We played out set plays, corner set plays.
Then there would be a half pitch game to end proceedings, with 2 squads again you could say small sided game for thats 11 or more a side.
Alot of one touch/control/and moving for another hole.
It was on like mad and I luved it, the competition was rife.
I think it showed why we won the comp 5yrs on bounce, 2yrs undefeated, Champions of Champs obviously being Prem winners.
Wow in between the above there was the introduction of the Association 6ASide comp as well.
In amongst the local Club goings on many of us were selected for Rep since about U11/12's onwards.
That was another 2 nights training that my ol man was struggling to make on time those days.
Far more intense training, 1v1, dribbling,ball control,6v6,beat 2 players shoot, back to the goal turn control cross shoot - not much re fitness for most done in Club training.
Rep was great and another level naturally playing all over Sydney.
Therefore compared to your experience I feel mine has similar traits to today but maybe not as polished.
I was in awe of some players I played with, so many imo could have gone way up, ala NSL +, typical of Aus many liked and were good at cricket, or surfing as well and didn't care to go higher.
A problem still to this day living in the Land Of Oz.

PS. I agree, whoever deleted previous posts be it in another thread or here is WRONG, for I know one of mine vanished as well.

Surely that clown doesn't still have mod privileges.

I just clicked on his old profile name (the greyed out one at the bottom of Aus football) and it says 'last active: 4 hours ago'.

WTF?! 

I mean if you are getting edited, my guess is you are either making it about another poster (why? He hasn't even posted in this thread. Try buying him a drink if you are that obsessed!) or went ad hominen (again why? at most we have exchanged banter. But we also all want football to succeed and I'm guessing we agree on most topics apart from this anyway)

anyway keep on topic, if you want to rage about another poster (including me) make an extra time thread

Incidentally, England have a national curriculum. It is similar with some differences (I highlight them in the performance thread), you have a free course with sample sessions which have lots of drills with balls at the feet and ways to modify mini matches to focus on mastering some skill. The sessions are the same as what youth coaches are teaching my kids. If you go up in youth coaching you have to pay once you go beyond the grassroots course. 

Is there a 1st world country that is a football nation without a national curriculum? I'd be happy to learn what they do if there are alternatives. I'm sure nsl academies had some great coaching, but for the average grass roots coach it is chalk and cheese compared to 30 years ago and we just seem to be following what other top countries do with a minor spin on things (imitating france, spain and belgium more than knvb)

Do we have another phantom editor in the background running around..?

Hahahaah you people are truly twisted..... Ill keep typing.... 

Muzzie, Im NOT saying they are producing robots dude... sheeesh. My crack about private school fees was just that, a crack about the fact the soccer, at any level, is too expensive...  not just wog clubs wanting to fleece parents so that they can sit around and eat pumpkin seeds, glorify their foreign ancestors and watch their overpaid players win ethnic battles against their "enemies" here .... 

You dont want my answer Grazor... 

Ok let's focus on this 

in the 90s I played football in Cairns at a club as a kid. I was 6 when I started and 13 when I finished but stayed as a fan. So lets just focus on the 5-13 year old period which is the most important period for technical development, the period I have experience playing and coaching in (though not too much) before and after the nc. Most people I know had very similar experiences. We turn up and do 50 pushups, situps, laps around the oval. We stand in lines to take pens one at a time, most of us standing around, we then line up where we have to take the another player on one at a time with most people standing around, we then play a match.

Now compare that to the sample sessions here (you get more if you do the courses and the miniroos course is free, but the higher level courses cost a lot)

https://www.footballaustralia.com.au/sites/ffa/files/2017-09/FFA%20National%20Curriculum_1ma6qrmro1pyq10gzxo5rcn7ld.pdf

Just focus on the 5-13 eras which are the game discovery eras and the skills acquisition eras - the most important age periods for developing a passion for the game as well as technique. All the games are fun, they teach decision making, skills and technique, they cause the kids to have zillions of touches of the ball. No one is counting touches or measuring kids height, everything is simple and age appropriate. The theory behind the exercizes can be technical but the drills are age appropriate and fun and you don't need to count the number of touches a kid makes. None of those drills are telling players there is one way to play and they seem to encourage rather than stifle creativity. Yes it is true that in the 13-17 window you learn 4-3-3 possession football. However, if you got a coaching liscence in portrugal or france and want to do something slightly different at your local club I doubt fa cops are putting you behind bars. 

Anyway, lets get to the main point. For all I know, south melbourne had fantastic youth development in that era, good for them! But my experience seems to be the experience of most people who played in that era. When the NTC came out, there were a bunch of youth coaches on this forum defending exercizes where people are lining up one at a time taking a player on. If you dig back far enough in the performance section you can probably still find them. It is an absolute fact that this area of our development was backwards back then.

Now given that is the reality of how backward we were, if we put you in charge of fixing that, how would you do it WITHOUT a national curriculum (assume everything else stays the same. We still ignore the crawford report, we still have a closed shop a league, no nst until 2025 because I'm guessing we mostly agree on other issues anyway)

Which schools? 

The combined high schools championships I was at were all from public schools. 

As for parents cross subsidising students to play in private schools that's a weird comment. Rowing, rugby and dressage are OK to subsidise but not football? What do I care if they're paying some of their hard earned towards a football program. 

When did I say they're all coached in the Dutch NC? I said it makes me laugh when old bitters say the NC is doing nothing but producing robots. As we've just been talking about there's kids playing football at all levels and formats. Private and public schools, NPL, academy and grassroots football. All under different coaches and styles.  This sweeping generalisation that 'they're all robots' is bullshit.

The coach of Hunter in the combined high schools tournament was a former player for Sydney Croatia.  And assistant coach for Adamstown in the NPL.  Is he producing 'robots'.

Is every coach in the NPL producing 'robots ' too?

Well I certainly won't count how many times he touches the ball during a training session and then go on to measure his height against a wall chart. hahahahah Sorry not having a go but you dont really seem to grasp my antagonism of the NC....  I dont think it turns ANYONE into a robot, I dont think any of the drills or methodologies used  are inherently wrong in ANY way shape or form... what I DISLIKE is the fact that we have to have an overarching curriculum in the first place.... It is a forum full of opinions after all yeah... Happy for people to preach from the FA hymnbook if they are true believers (although I suspect alot of the times it is more about the cultural battle between old soccer and new football, especially on here)  but I personally dont see any value in every single player in Australia being taught to play in the same structural way, in fact I see it as counterproductive to what I deem successful football nations do...  

Will you tho? Or will we hear more irrational rage at the dutch turning people into robots because little 9 year old timmy isnt spending half the training doing pushups and laps followed by a 11v11 game like things were when I played youth football ;)

Ill take your word for it mate.... 

1) the nc is not dutch. Have you done knvb and compared some dutch sample sessions to ours? It was invented by a dutch person but is a different system
2) even if you do a miniroos free course you are getting some national curriculum philosophy and content

If they are coached using sessions where people are given lots of touches in small sided games which replicate match situations and kids are getting 600 touches a session or more then it is achieving most of what the nc sought to achieve

Hey Muz, assuming I am one of your bitters, as LFC mentioned none of these school kids are coached in the Dutch NC ... Also, you are surprisingly quiet on the exorbitant school fees parents of non football playing students are paying to these schools to fund a soccer program for the first eleven to participate in these tournaments ...

Muz, ok I hear you re robot comments i'll ignore the bitters for I am near the vintage or description depending who (young one) but here's the thing from your naked eye re the School Comp gig/s state of play.
As mentioned prior the schools its all about badge of honour and also managed by the background of the school TD or sports master. (they are not the typical curriculum types)
Where we were involved/school (yes a catholic Independant) the long time sports master was/is a passionate ex pat UK bloke I got to know well and also playing for a long time in my local association 035/45's.
He wasn't into any of the NPL/academy/AL state of play, pass back pass sideways, sit back reset its was go go go full on, he encouraged the kids to play their natural game full stop period even though hollering out instructions.
Therefore "individulism" comes into play.
It was awesum to watch being we were in the Rep system for so long.
My kids luved playing for school due to its freedoms and I'm sure not the only ones.
Hence why your seeing great play, most if not all the sports coachs just want them to go for it, they knew they had/have good quality players.

Talk of Grammer or any of those huge money full on private schools yer its mind boggling $$$$, traditionally rugga backgrounds for most obviously football later introduced and growing like mad, I expect the private school bastion bitters would be hating it lol......
NCB - yer the comp is the CIS pretty much most mid level Independant Catholic, throw in those mega private schools.
We used to play Cranebrook @ Rose Bay, I used to drop my jaw first times being there, 5 odd pristine ovals, a first aid support at the building in front of the fields like being in a hospital emergency ward ffs, got every bloody thing you could think of - nearly 40k p/a says it all ! 

Anyway, school football needs to be watched over by the FA or connect with it for there would be plenty who are not in the usual Rep systems.

Will just add it makes me laugh when you see, and I'm generalising here, old blokes (usually bitters) on FB going off on how the NC is producing nothing but robots that all play in a certain way.

Nothing could be further from the truth. (To my uneducated eye.)

And also, all different sizes for these kids. They're definitely not picking big units that can run all day like you constantly read. Both players of the tournament (boys and girls) for the Combined High Schools state championships were both smaller than average. 

Bill Turner cup is still going.

Unfortunately there's no one catch all tournament. The public schools play in their comp and the Independent schools play in theirs. More's the pity because that comp would go off.

Because I work from home and have my own business I do quite a few of these school games locally particularly in the preliminary stages before they inevitably end up in Sydney.

As for quality, a team from the local school here (an independent) just thumped Trinity Grammar from Sydney (after beating a Newcastle team a fortnight before) and are now in the final 4 of the state for Independent schools. That Trinity mob flew up here in the morning from Sydney, played and lost (sucked in) and flew back that arvo. (Nice to have plenty of cash.)

Meanwhile the selectors at the Combined High Schools tournament didn't have the cash for a set of independent selectors so they had a panel of coaches from the teams attending. Can imagine that could/would cause a few dramas. 

I think in England and Germany (France etc....) if you're 16, 17 and 18 you're willing to risk a snapped ankle given the massive riches if you can actually make it AND you can make a living playing football even at lower levels.

You're only a a season away from being noticed and quadrupling (or more) your wages effectively overnight. 

Young bloke here on $200 a win might get poached to play for $300 a win. Where's the incentive?

I could be wrong but I cant remember who said it but they mentioned that Japan have a different system to most westernised countries where from grassroots to high school where is no elitist pathway and any kid at a young age focus on technique and touch they also get a-lot of their inspiration from Brazil whom they have great relationship with. 

It seems like they wanted to grow the sport where baseball was king and it seems it still is but they had to create a strong football culture from the ground up because they didn't have a strong football culture historically so I think is the reason why they have a big player pool today is to facilitate not only pro football but also at high school and university football which is apparently equally competitive and therefore have grown the sport to the point where its competing with baseball.

I also remember they created a 100 year plan which was to build the pyramid and help win a World Cup and they look to closer to it than ever before, the power of long term planning.

The key for us is they don't do elite vs the rest like over in Europe, they give anyone a chance to get the skills to play the game and find their passion through that and therefore build up that football culture whilst having a large focus on technique and touch through good coaching and education.
Can it be replicated here? I don't think so culturally we are so different to them plus we dont have a culture like over in Japan where high school and university sport culture is so prevalent plus our football culture influence we get mainly from the egg ball codes plus from the UK due to the countries heritage.

We better off learning from them rather than copying and pasting from them as each country and region is different.

It would be nice with some knowledge on Japanese football to give us a takedown on it.

Would have to have make the state based cup winners all play eachother.
Then, they also exist at different formats too.

School I went to was a Catholic school in rural NSW - so, our comps were the Bill Turner Cup (U15? I believe it was - It was essentially Grades 7, 8 and 9) which was open to all schools, and then the Open team would play in the CCC (Can't remember what it stands for, but essentially a Catholic College Competition - maybe that's the CCC?) events, which was not open to all schools. I don't believe we ever entered a competition where we played other non-Catholic schools.

yer true that would be pretty good BUT I know many NPL Clubs wouldn't like it depending when held.
We had trouble every Saturday making both games - had pressure from both sides god damn it, you HAVE to play for school, NPL was you can't afford injury, if your late your benched yaddayadda - school typically its also a huge badge of honour, rep its all about your our player and no one elses kind of vibe.
I'm not sure there is a National comp arranged, there is X Interstate comps/Cups schools can enter - boys went a couple of times to Briz.
This ISA/CIS comp covered alot of Sydney - so very metro.

Good to hear school level football is good! Wonder how hard it would be to have a roc estedford style national school comp each year?