Reception@ffa.com.au

True the point is we know nothing concrete but goss so it’s only natural reaction because so many of us have hope and frustration.

sent

Why?

I'd assume with that format, you'd get everyone at one city.

I'm posting this before I read the last page of posts - but it 'could' work as a form of promotion/relegation to the top flight (if that's how it's envisioned to). Not ideal of course, but it is a possible compromise of sorts to link the NPL to the A-League

https://www.ftbl.com.au/news/flabbergasted-anger-over-fa-plans-to-re-write-second-tier-script-609880

This is the poll I did on reddit

Curious how people feel about the comp hypothetically. Like if i can take an informal poll what category would you be in

1. against it in any format in the forseeable future

2. for it but only if they meet the fa's rumoured criteria of a 800k wage budget, 500k liscence and 500k deposit

3. for it and the fa should negotiate on these criteria lowering the standard slightly but not too much

4. for it and there should be no criteria other than forbidding that extra revenue coming from junior fees. Just take the best 12 clubs and let it grow

5. other (explain)

a lot of the basis of the opposition seems to be worries that the extra money spent will be detrimental to the game as a whole and that money needs to be used to stop the a league from collapsing

it sounds like people either aren't aware or don't believe that the clubs are doing this at the own expense and risk

some were just straight up against old nsl clubs, others including Vince said they are for it as long as there is no drop in fa's minimum requirements (800k+500k+500k). This one confuses me since surely if it is a choice between no nst and one with slightly lower standards, if the clubs are the ones footing the expense then what is the downside? If it is npl on planes and stays that way who cares? Yet if it grows you've really unlocked something valuable

800k+500k+500k

What is this ?

rumoured minimum standards

500k bank deposit
500k licence fee
800k minimum player budget

fa meeting will extend over two days apparently

Is that deposit the same as the security? If not, surely that would be refunded, maybe after the season?
The licence fee could be reduced, or does it actually go towards something for the NST?
The minimum player budget actually seem ridiculously low for professionals, it would barely cover the starting 11. Are we sure these are all correct numbers?
I'd love to see all the facts published because some of it has me scratching my head.
Would it be financially better for the clubs if they stayed semi-pro (still in an NST) and put this money towards facilities and club development instead? Instead of forking out for deposits and licences and full time salaries.

Here's the thing.

That crowd was a gimmick, just like all crowds bar the AFL in Melbourne. 

Put South v Preston, twice a year, after 3rd year, it will turn into a 500-2000 supporter event. 

Clever sponsors know this, the only thing that would work imo is uniting the pyramid and with less strict promotion and relegation licensing like in most other places. 

That way, you sponsor the pyramid, not just the club who is riding off it's niche until the last drop or the closed league 1/2. 

Marconi’s player budget is easily over a million just in NPL I thinks just about 1.3 if I can remember 

Is Australia the only country in the world where a semi pro league, 3 days a week is that well paid across the board? 

I read somewhere they're massively overpaid compared to other countries at the same level. Somebody else might be able to elaborate.

I had a bloke tell me in the UK a bloke over there would kill you to keep his 50 quid a week contract.

How in the world does a club with no crowds or transfer revebue afford 1.3 mill player budget

In any case hopefully that means they can afford it

Thing that annoys me is queensland roar, who are loaded, showed no interest

1.3 M budget? Marconi social club. 

You mean Lions FC didn't show interest 
Financials didn't stack up. 

https://www.news.com.au/sport/football/lions-fc-makes-shock-decision-to-reject-national-second-division-model/news-story/9c4d6f1fe71b361566ed4a8db3089f15

500k bank guarantee - obviously held by the bank. 
500k annual registration fee. League costs. Running the league to cost about $5M per season.  
40- 50k approx Minimum player salary - Minimum squad is 18-20. Depending on age. 
Minimum salary depending on age for U23 or 23+ . Depends on make up of the squad. 

Therefore looking at 800k Minimum player salary. Safe to assume most clubs will be easily paying over 1$M. Your best players will want more than 50k. 

Throw in coaches and support staff. 
Looking at $2-2.5M club spend per year. 

Yep. 
Anyone remember south vs Heidleberg in the VPL in 2005. 
11,000 attended. 
Well know the crowd these days are no where near that.  

Cheers, that clears it up. Yeah it didn't make sense losing another $500k for a deposit. But a guarantee is different, it's security you won't lose unless you screw up.
Rego is what it is, it seems. And clubs would've been aware of that figure from the start.
$800k really is peanuts and pointless to consider for a reduction.

Do we know which criteria potential clubs would like reduced? It's a risk for all the other clubs, if a club can't pay wages, drops out (already rumoured) and the security had been reduced.

I don't understand when the criteria was the same as before and "crystal clear", that potential clubs still applied knowing they couldn't meet criteria. Doesn't make sense.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall at these meetings.

Yep, like it was yesterday... a warmish day and the first time we had played the old enemy in a while... in fact the first time we had played a match for about a year and half if I recall.

Crowd seemed nothing special then, but the feeling at the time was, "eh maybe this state league exile wont be as bad as we thought" and what followed? A few decent crowds against Knights, Preston, Georgies and the Bergers and the rest of the matches against Bentleigh, Oakleigh, Altona Magic, Dinamo, Essendon, Frankston Pines ect etc  crowds where abysmal - talking McCarthur and WU levels of crap here........ By 2006 a crowd of a 2,000 felt massive.... 

But this comparison isnt the same thing Butler... The Championship (should) be the best of the best clubs in Australia playing against each other... NPL is currently losing steam (even the derbies) because the whole comp is so meh... Ofcourse you are right and the first year or two isnt such a good indication of where crowd levels will be but I actually think the opposite to you, I reckon the crowds and interest will improve over time NOT decline. I think the first year or so crowds will be pretty modest... who knows at the end of the day .. worth the "experiment" in my eyes... ANYTHING is better than the dead end we have now... 

Yes, and that Rego covers the pooled travel costs and FA Admin

Some of the player payments AND goal bonus' on offer down here would make your eyes water mate...  Lots of wealthy club benefactors are happy to fork out to be "entertained" when they bring their business clients to the 3-4 matches a year they bother to rock up too :)

I'm not sure, but I gather that some clubs would be grumbling about the need for permanent full time admin staff (they all rely on volunteers mainly) and possibly, for a few, the demands on upgrading their current facilities???? 

 For the second division to proceed as planned in 2025, I would expect each of the foundation clubs to be fully committed at this stage with clear business plans in execution towards meeting all the financial goals required to be sustainable. If any of the 8 are still asking for a delay in a 2025 start, then they were not worthy of foundation club selection.  For NSD to be successful, all the foundation clubs need to be working together on common challenges and opportunities. The Promotion from South Melbourne and Preston in the recent Australia cup game was the best example of both clubs working on the same page in promoting the game. The end result was an amazing atmosphere, huge crowd and entertaining game.
     If FA are not able to select any further clubs in the current process, it will be difficult for the board to proceed with the proposed Home and Away set up especially if an 8-team competition is below the break-even financial model criteria.

To me the FA have missed a golden opportunity to get the Federations on side and give them a revenue stream which would negate the need for the high junior fees that exist today.

There should be a Federation Cup between the 9 Australian Federations (6 State, 2 Territory, and Northern NSW). It could/should be played on the International dates of the year, team A home in year 1, away in year 2 etc.

The beauty of such a competition is that there would be several genuine contenders. Yes, Northern Territory and Tasmania would not be competitive, but it would incentivise them to grow their game. Look at how our National Team has affected the Asian Confederation since joining it.

Couple this with the National Teams, and the NST and what a package the FA could offer broadcasters.

Correct and this is the main outlook most should look to it.
20yrs ago needs to be left where it is - history.
Its 2024 and with all the intel and outlook today we more so they the FA and the Clubs in ring know what’s required.
Pity not more are in a viable position but as MSC mentions the dead end this part of the eco system has been in not surprising.
This even so few - needs 10 min at least can be a start to the future we so much need.

Well said Babi, I agree. The South v Preston game was as successful as it was mainly because of the combined organisational and promotional work put into it by both clubs. 
The 8 foundation clubs were selected BECAUSE of their commitment to a clear financial strategy. Backing out now perhaps means that 1 or 2 where a little 'creative' in how they presented their bids?
Welcome to the forum btw.... 

Mate the federations ARE the reason for the need for high junior fees that exist today....  I like your "state of origin" idea though... Unlike NRL and AFL we can actually provide a competitive one with at least 4-5 states in with a chance...