Not possible for any coach to have runs on the board when they take over a very week squad in their first year. 

We can only judge the results that the coach gets with the cattle he has.

Look at ladder predictions from the start of the season, most experts had us finishing bottom 5.

Cirro is already way better than Folksy, Fokes was a great player, an excellent conditioner and an average coach, and a good motivator..

Our defence was great in 2004, but that was more about individual player efforts and desire. Attack was great in 2004, but we had a highly talented team.

In 2024 we have a well drilled attack and defence, that isn't talent, it is coaching.  Sure Xerri has the talent to do something when he gets the ball at the right time. 

In 2004, our forwards would make line breaks, get offloads and create space outside. Attack from Shifty was more about seeing and taking opportunities. 

The  good thing about an organised system is you don't need as much talent,  but when you add talent it usually adds something significant. 

Did you watch him play much? He was a great leader and could read numbers as good as a halfback in attack and a fullback in defence. 

What you will finds is that 1973-1995  we had the best scouting network in the game. 

Then.
1. Some of our players and I think scouts went with Anderson to Melbourne. 
2. Some of the QLD sides started to out complete our QLD scouts.
3. The Warriors poached our legendary NZ scout John Ackland.
4. After the bust up with the Hughes, the Mark Hughes scouting network went to Souths.
5. Crusher stuffed up what was left of our scouting. Along with juniors, recruiting and development. 

For the first time since 1998 we now seem to have the level of talent in the lower grades that the Dogs would typically have. 

Gus must be working overtime rebuilding scouting networks and relationships and doing the bulk of the scouting personally just like Bullfrog. 

Without Gus and Cirro the club would still be a mess, no smart coach would go to a club in that condition. 

Sometimes fans should understand what has been achieved and have more gratitude. 

Don’t go off early. Folkes is a premiership winning coach. And made two Grand Finals the first one taking a team savages by Super League war to some of the greatest wins in our history to lose to one of the greatest teams of all time Brisbane. He had a great record of making finals almost every year. One of the greatest coaches of our club. 

In 2004 our sets often started with Ogre, Roy or Pricey taking the first 2 hit ups, the Willie or SBW would get the ball on play 3, with an opportunity to do something.  Both guys had the vision and instinct for the smart play,  but could take the tough play if it was needed.

Even Willie credits Hughes,  Perry and Grimaldi as doing most of the work in defence. Like attack Willie and SBW could get involved when they were needed, The middle was usually rock solid. Bobcat normally kept 1 edge solid. The General knew how to organise the defence. 

What is different in 2024 is we definitely have a lot less talent, but the team is still finding a way to win.

The realistic choice was probably Cirro,  Flanagan or some other untried coach.

I know that some of our players are playing with injuries and we don't have more talent than teams like the Fins, Raiders, Cows, Manly, or even Souths and Parra.

We need to keep the winning momentum going, because that provides the energy for the next win. We don't have any easy games and could lose at any time.

Having a key player like King, Kiks or Presto injured with our thin forwards depth and injuries to middles would have been terminal for a poorly coached side.

At the start of the season I was the only one calling for Hayward to get a  shot and Dman was the only one calling for Sexton. 

For the squad Cirro has, the results are excellent and players are improving. 

He is very close to building the best possible side with the 2024 squad.  Right players playing the right roles and very few other viable choices.  Took until around round 12 when Sexton came in to find our best combination. Some of the earlier results are partially due to that.

Most other teams didn't have that problem except for Newcastle who change their halves every week.

My personal opinion is that the 2002 squad were next level in comparison to the rest of the teams that year, and apart from the salary cap breach that stripped them of all their points and excluded them from contesting in the semis, they were never going to be denied the premiership.
I also believe that if the SC breach hadn't occurred, the Dogs would have achieved a 2002/03/04 threepeat.
Just sayin'.

Yeah i watched him.
But im more surprised about his in-depth knowledge rather than simple numbers stuff you see on the field 

He is Cronk-like in describing some real strategy type stuff. Most forwards are just meatheads that need the ball on a platter otherwise they crumble.

That could be right. The 2002 team were virtually unbeatable. 

Funny thing about the 2002 squad is many fairly ordinary players were on high salaries and there were a lot more ordinary players in the 2002 squad than people imagine. 

What we had in 2002 was a lot of great locally developed talent bursting on to the scene at the same time. 

I was at the semi final we lost to the Chooks in 2003, Folksy's team selection and bench rotation was diabolical, with guys like Glenn Hughes getting on before guys like Asotasi. I remember clearly sitting in the stands frustrated as players that shouldn't have been on the field made errors which cost us the game.

Walking out I was confident about winning in 2004 and I said that to a Chooks fan who laughed at me. I had the last laugh. 

If we had Gus and Cirro managing the talent in 2002, we would not have been over the cap. We would never have let Thurston go, and who knows how many comps we could have won. 

That is why management is important,  we definitely left at least 2 premierships on the table, and had to screw up very badly to do that.

I agree.
Folkes wasnt tactically great at a micro management level (he let the players showcase their own skills/attributes) but in a similar way to CC this year, he was able to get the team to play as a team.

He sometimes valued good trainers abit too much at the expense of talent. Des did this too but also micro managed. 

I think credit needs to go to Jason Taylor for our improvement in attack from mid this season. This coincided with Sexton finding his feet and was built off the back of our good defence.

Things are looking bright but as you say, its too early to place CC in the class of premiership coaches. 

Remember, even K. Moore took us to a prelim in '09 after a disaster previous year.

The stereotype is not 100% accurate. 

A few guys from my high school who played prop got good school results.

One guy who played reserve grade for North Sydney was a mathematical genius at high school, way above the next best kid in our year.

Dr George was a doctor and there are others.

Some props I know were poor at school because they were totally disinterested, but are street smart and witty.

And there is the odd totally brainless meathead, that dude was a mate of the street smart guy.

My personal experience and observation is that brainless meatheads are around 20% of forwards.

Academic smart forwards are 10%, the remaining 70% have various degrees of street smarts.

We had very good forwards and very good halves in '04 with better than average backline (good enough for our team but hardly rep level players).

In '24 we actually have a very good backline, average halves and abit below-average forward pack.

We shall see how this team goes in the finals. From there we will see if we need to improve in forwards, halves or both.

K. Moore rebuilt that side, with some very smart recruitment. 

Sexton spent the first 10 weeks of the season working on his defence in reserve grade.  That decision has set up the rest of Sexton's career. 

At the same age, Myth Moses was a total turnstile. Moses could have done with some time in reserve grade working on defence earlier in his career.

I think that we mostly need to improve the forwards and the back up hooker option in case Marhoney gets injured.

We have some outside backs, a fullback and some good young halves in the lower grades. 

Just starting 2025 with a settled spine and good combinations will be  a big step forward. 

I will be happy if we kick off 2025 playing like the last 5 weeks. That will be a lot better than how we started 2024.

Player for player i think Roosters had a better team in 2024.

GF was close and could have gone either way if El Masri is deemed double movement (it happened in front of me and i was certain it would be called back) and Mini isnt called back for an obstruction try (also in front of me).

But we fought till the end and it was redemption from 2002 that kept our team together and to play for each other. Great win in the end.

Lol. You sound like the math genius right there!
Let me guess...... you aced Statistics, right?

Correct on Moses.
Its why Des didn't want him as a package deal with Teddy, but Des was too blind to see how outrageously good Moses is in attack.

As you say, if someone worked on his defence, he would have been best half of the last decade. 

He's finally reached his potential now, but is starting to break down as he gets older. 

I still blame Des.

I think Hayward is key as he can be the interchange for lock (as he is) but is also good at hooker and can cover Mahoney if injured or sin binned. Can also cover halves. 

That is why I wanted Hayward in 14 at the start of the season. 
Cover for lock, but also injures / HIA at hooker and half.
Short a player in those key positions if is hard to win.

I am unsure about Turpin and the reserve grade hooker. We just need a young guy good enough to cover hooker or 14.

If Reed was out injured Hayward could start at hooker and I guess that Turpin could cover 14.

I agree on Moses once he was taught how to defend, he improved. 

The 2024 side doesn't have the attacking fire power and X-Factor of the 2004 side.
I think outside backs and spine stack up fairly well. 
But Ogre, Asotasi,  Pricey, Mase and SBW was a lot of fire power. 
Reni and Thursy off the bench also more attacking flair than the 2024 bench.

Hopoi is very young CC is easing him in.

In 2004 proven players like Feeney couldn't get a run. 

I still say that the 2024 team is better drilled than 2004.

My big doubt about 2024 is if a bigger side matches our intensity gets a run off possession and dominates us up the middle. Hasn't happened for a while but a top 4 side might do that to us in a semi. Not much that the coach can do about that this year. 

The slightly erratic style of the 2004 side was because we were not well drilled.  That adhoc style made us hard to defend, but we also made a few errors. 

Coaching and conditioning is a lot more scientific these days.  I bet that laptops,  and video analysis gets a fair work out. Wok would love how the 2024 side defends, it is his principles taken to the Max.

Maybe he should've had the right attitude to it to begin with... I reckon his attitude is an ongoing issue behind closed doors... Whinging flat track bully... Rarely more, mostly less...
Yep he as reached his potential... A flat track bully... And will leave the game without a premiership...

Will Buzz admit that he is a clueless fool now that Flanno has been found guilty of biting?

They should just replace the NRL 360 crew with some random 5 year olds, we will get more intelligent footy talk.

I don't watch it, sometimes extracts come up on YouTube. 

He's dominated origin, and you call him flat track bully.

Not even Nathan has dominated origin like that.

I do think he has abit of an attitude problem, but i also think he's been unlucky not to win a premiership at Parra. Not many teams beat Penrith in 2022. 

I think that we are all struggling to understand Dogs 2024, because it is something we have never seen before. 

I've been following NRL since 1973 and followed the local comp and school team before that.

Small mobile forwards all working together in defence wax a formula Bellamy had at the early days of the Storm.  But we smashed them once in an important game with a bigger forward pack and Bellamy added more size while keeping most of the defence.

Blocker likened our attack to the "Green Machine" at their peak, Stewart, Dailey, Meningie, Nagas, Mullins and Co. It is similar with skilful passing, great long and short kicking, and pace on the edge. We don't quite have the equivalent of Big Mal and those "Green Machine" sides also had a great pack of forwards with some very good props.

But in particular,  I can ever remember a rebuild for any club going this well, especially after 5-8 seasons in the wilderness and with diabolical defence and ordinary attack the year before. 

Most NRL fans seem to assume that it is some kind of fluke and that it can’t last.

We don't know what happens next, I don't know, I've never seen this before. 

In particular, I don't remember a side improving their attack and defence so much season on season. We did have a star recruit in Critter. Xerri was a known class player returning from 4 years out.  But recruitment doesn't really explain it.

Mase, SBW, Asotasi, Thurston a co were known lower grade stars, the NRL side improving when they were promoted wasn't a big surprise. The only player a bit like that is Skelton. I had never heard of Hopoi, Todd, Underhill, Hayes and Clarke before this season. Hayes in particular came from obscurity and looks like a guy who has played 50 NRL games.

Sure there is an element of luck, but a lot of this has to be great coaching. 

Most forwards know a fair bit about the game. At least forwards that have played over the last thirty years. Some may be meat heads but even they understand a lot more than most about the game. 

I think we should wait till the end of the season before anointing any player or coach. We are doing great. Much better than we have in years. But I’m still not sold. If we win the last four straight we could be top four. If we drop a few games we still could miss the eight. 

Hate to say it, but i agree.
Im not sold on the idea that we've turned a corner and that next year will be equal or better than this year.

What ive come to learn about rugby league in recent years is that 1 season to another can easily be chalk and cheese. 

Right now, the worst thing that can hapoen to us is our season coming to an end. I don't think our players can play this defensive system as good next year and so CC will need to reinvent himself.

And that is why i reserve my judgement on CC. As Micko said, CC has had a disastrous year, and a good year. 

Hope this rin continues deep into finals this year and hope we can play the same way or better next year. But teams and coaches aren't stupid. They'll do their homework on us and match it with us.

Thats why we need to stay ahead and not rest on laurels.

Regardless of what happens from here this season has been a success.

None of our remaining games are easy, but all are winnable.

I think that we can beat the Fins even if Perham plays fullback.

Wilson is probably out for the rest of the season.

Skelton is suspended for I think one week. Skelton is going to the Tigers which should work out OK for all.

I would like to keep Skelton, but we have Clarke and Sua.

Next year I think Tom and Toups will add something.  Our lock role is tailor made for Karl O.

Our depth should be better in 2025. Injuries in the spine could derail our season. Injuries are a matter of luck, nothing to do with coaching. 

Teams like Souths and Parra will probably have a better 2025, we will need to improve just to be sure about making the semis.

At this stage we are aiming to make the Semis each year. Injury free with the team in form, Karl and big Tom probably decide how deep we go. I think that we will add more depth in the forwards.

This season is not a success if we miss the finals. From where we are now I would add that winning our first final as well would ensure a success. 

What were your expectations at the start of the season?

I was hoping to just scape into the 8. Many fans were not that optimistic. 

As long as the team shows a trend of improving I am happy with the coach.

Generally the trend is that the longer the season goes the better we get.

I see the Fins as similar to the Broncos, some good attacking players, but suspect defence. 

The best way to be sure of beating a team like that is put a score on them and don't let them get close.  That way they don't win with 2 late lucky trys.

We should be running some attack at Averillo.