Throwing the baby out with the bathwater stuff like this makes me want to vomit.

Pretty sure the baby left the tub in disgust of its own accord long ago.

Even got the impression that Kenny's heading that way himself. He seemed kind of a bit resigned to it all and out of answers and whilst he talked about the difficulties dealing with the kid's experience, he even mentioned that perhaps some of the older players were running out of steam (or something like that).

This and the fact that he keeps talking about being outfought etc.., keeps suggesting to me that he's a Fergie like coach - focused a bit too much on individuals and not quite enough on team cohesion.

To be fair, he did have a difficult situation coming in, it is true that playing with kids is difficult cos they'll make errors, and he has got the players passing around more, but the way in which he has handled these challenges publicly and his inability to inspire belief amongst the fans that he has a clear plan/system, makes these little points in his favour kind of fade away.

It might be Tony Sage's money, but he has no clue to what the kind of footballing direction he wants to them take in the future.

And at the same time, Kenny Lowe is looking for all the excuses in the world, but he won't admit he isn't capable of coaching in the league.

Edited by Barca4life: 24/3/2014 08:47:29 PM

The look on Jamie Harnwell's face... we feel it - we understand Jamie and we can see you yearn to change it, but it's too soon to enter that coal face. Stay the W-League coach and Foxsports pundit for a while - watch from afar for a little while, get your badges up, not unlike Ange and others... Your time will come!

http://www.foxsports.com.au/video?v=wanderers-end-slump_1226862725947&vc=521



Harnwell's face... says it all!


And fn Hersi - could his own 'audition' have gone any better - We reckon he's all but signed with this club, sigh!




To be fair B4L - I think he all but did, in the latest presser - he said, of his own candidacy and how results affect his chances, that he was a new coach and like the rest he and the staff will warrant review too and perhaps they too could improve/do better, not just the players... but in the end, he rightly said, that's up to the board to decide.

And that's the worry - it's not Lowe's fault - it's all up to Sage and co, and it's their decisions, whims or whatever, that decide these things, just as they decided on Edwards and those before him! The longer it's drawn out, for 'WHATEVER' reasons - IT SEEMS THEY MUST BE UNDERTAKING A WORLD CLASS COACHING SEARCH?!! - the more the interim staff/auditioning candidate, undermined and wider uncertainty drawn out. Player re-signings, signings, are delayed, decisions delayed - that delay may carry over into pre-season and may, worst case, force more pre-emptive decisions on player signings, leaving more 'legacy signings' akin to what Cernak was for Edwards and what not! Same time, more delay, the more we miss out on good talent 'perhaps' as too risk losing some of our better off-contract - though latter most of those off-contract we won't be too sad to lose - including even the likes of Shane Smeltz!

Anyway, we are all very much hoping that this process yields the results we expect of a professional and ambitious club in this ever, ever more competitive A-League. Glory have risked being left behind for a while now, and with even fellow stragglers like Heart being bought up by Man City - that trend could well continue, less we smarten up!

Edited by GloryPerth: 24/3/2014 11:25:39 PM

To be fair, this team has faced monumental challenges since the Edwards fall out that even seasoned A-League coaches like Kossie, Branko, Merrick, Bleiberg or the like would have trouble, I believe? Lowe is an experienced youth coach, but as he himself admitted (the obvious) this presser - he is a debutant and a debutant in tough circumstances - but again, honesty and home truths come forward, as he suggested. Lowe said one thing the young players aren't lacking is 'effort' and they try their best. That's some support for a portion of the playing group, the youngins, atleast, considering - and perhaps between the lines shows how perhaps 'the other/non youngins' may not be putting in 100%! He's needed to attack the wider group, include the senior players in criticism, a bit more - but atleast he did, when pushed, now.

Again - an inexperienced coach at A-League level, a guy who's background is actually not unlike Edwards, coaching youth players including Brandon O'Neill since he was 13 or some such! So it's a 'tough' experience for him too, handling Jacob Burns FC and co too and the likes of #1 gker Vuka up and leaving, Marquee man Gallas and what not - it's a big personality group facing dire times. It's hard for even 'better' coaches to drag such sides from such low morale, let alone a coach of his relatively inexperience. And the process has not done he or the club any good either.

Edited by GloryPerth: 24/3/2014 11:36:09 PM

It's not ideal... but I honestly believe that it is now not just the club but the game itself that is suffering in this state. The way I see it there's 3 options:
1) Perth Glory miraculous get their act together and become the club they're capable of being
2) Perth Glory keep going the way they are, become a synonym for mediocrity and we end up either with a club that no-one cares about or no club at all in this state because our "market" is seen as only 3-5,000 fans
3) Sage is forced out and a new club comes in, building on the current fan base but re-embracing the 5,000+ people who have already stopped caring about Perth Glory along with the countless potential new fans due to the growth in population in WA in the last 10 years


1, of course, is ideal... but if after so many years it hasn't happened what hope is there that anything will change? And therefore given a choice between 2 and 3 I would now take 3... because to me the current state of the club is a greater disrespect to Perth Glory's past than winding up the club would be.

No new club is going to come in to replace Perth Glory. The FFA just extended the licences of the 9 Australian A League clubs until 2034. That doesn't mean the club could not have a new owner or new owners in that period, but it will still be Perth Glory not some new team in black and gold.

While the club is undoubtedly at the lowest point in its history, it is the only A League club with any genuine history and it is still supported by thousands of people, from those of us who have been there since the start nearly 18 years ago to kids going to their first games this season (poor little bastards).

If you and others feel like you are so disillusioned that you can't support the club anymore, then personally I would prefer that you just walk away as is your right.

If you want to back a new/second club, go ahead, but I don't think it is fair or respectful of other fans to try to further diminish the club that they support and will continue to support - even if they are unhappy with aspects of the way the club is being run, decisons that are made or the current abysmal performance on the pitch.

Personally, I would prefer a club in Perth that represents Western Australian football on the national stage to a club that represents its owners, a handful of players who have taken control of the playing group and a few died-in-purple fans.

That club *could* and indeed *did* used to be Perth Glory. But now, I feel the "Perth Glory until I die" attitude is holding back football in this state... because it means that you will never hold poor administrators accountable because you will continue to support what they create whatever they do.

Your attitude that the club is bigger than the game is harmful in an environment where football is in a massively hot battle with other sporting codes in WA. The game *needs* a successful, well run professional club to compete in that battle - by endorsing Perth Glory and its current administrators you are throwing away any chance of that.


I don't want a new/second club... I just want a successful club. Perth Glory, without a massive overhaul, will never be that.

I didn't say the club is bigger than the game or endorse the current administration. I don't support "what they create whatever they do". If you were at the fan forum, you would have seen me express exactly the opposite of that.

I do believe though that the club is bigger than any individual, whether that is the owner, the coach, CEO, individual player or disgruntled/disillusioned fan.

Of course, I want a successful, well run and professional club. And although you say above that you don't want a new/second club, that is exactly what you said when you would be on board with a "Perth United" in black and gold.

"I don't want a new/second club... I just want a successful club. Perth Glory, without a massive overhaul, will never be that."


I think that's pretty straightforward and easy to understand. Like many people I agree with Bovs that with the current administration and board, and the culture they create, Glory will never be a long term success story.

You may express your displeasure at the way the club is being run, but if you're going to games, singing and creating atmosphere and encouraging others to attend then you're funding and endorsing the product as presented by the current owners.

The owners have demonstrated that they judge the opinion of fans based on attendances, and the performance of the team based on finals appearances. So if the crowds are increasing then they take that as fundamentally demonstrating the fans are happy.

I don't *want* a new club... what I *want* is a successful and well-managed Perth Glory. Knowing that's almost unattainable under the current administration, I'm simply stating that I would *prefer* a new club to the current Perth Glory.

Perth Glory has never really been a club representing a membership base, local football pyramid structure, or the past... it's only ever been a stand-alone professional football club in Perth run by its owners and attended by its fans. Unless the soul of the club were fundamentally altered then it simply doesn't serve what I want out of a Perth-based A-League club anymore.

Well, as the foundation members of Perth United, I hope you and Bovs will be very happy together.

It has become increasingly apparent that Perth Glory died in 2004, and some other beast is roaming around wearing its skin.

It's a big job, but I think as a fan one has to believe that the situation can be salvaged, the 'brand' revived and a proper football tradition built. We've all acknowledged the progress regarding involvement with NPL, trying out youth players etc... Yes, MASSIVE problems continue to exist, but gradually as these things come into place it will be easier for those at the club to tackle the rest. It is also getting more and more difficult for the club to continue the mistakes of the past and get away with it.

Sadly I don't think the club is going anywhere under Sage's control, unless he appoints someone who knows something about football to lead the club. Bit disappointing because I was impressed with the club at the start of the season, membership came on time for once, new side of the stadium is great and the food there is 100 times better then the rock solid pies from the older places, Edwards seemed to be taking the club in the right place but that all went down the shitter.

On other news, TWG and a few others places seem to indicate that we've signed Hersi, doubtful its gonna happen but would be a great signing, finally someone to put some pressure on Smeltz (well, considering Smeltz is injured all the time its more like a replacement)

That's a bit harsh, isn't it? Both of us want nothing more than a happy and successful Perth Glory with a clear plan and philosophy and a sound club culture.

We just feel that there is precious little evidence to show real change can be achieved under the present owner and board, and holding out hope that something changes isn't really a practical way of solving the problem.

Perth Glory=Mess

Edit: dupe

Edited by AndyToddsElbow: 26/3/2014 10:53:57 AM

So the club is bigger than the board or owner but it's ok to support the board and owner who are ruining the club?

I don't understand that logic. If Tony's said he's stubborn as fuck and doesn't want to give it up (or admit there's a problem) then what else is there for fans to hope for?

If you don't feel insulted or disgusted by what is happening at Glory off the pitch then I don't really see how you can say you care about the club or the culture, reputation, legacy it was built on.

The licenses mean diddly squat. How many years did NQF or GCU have running? 20 year licenses isn't going to save Tinkler when the shit finally reaches the fan in Newcastle.

If the FFA don't want to run the club but have found backing and support for a new Perth club, then I am fine with that because if the people that represent Glory can't be fucked and want to wallow in their own self-importance and ignorance instead of doing what is right, what on earth is left at the club...as a club? All the Member's Only Press Conferences in the world isn't going to change things.

As for the game,

Good you guess which team looked like it was playing it's 5th game in 15 days?

Clue: Wasn't Glory

As for Edwards howler...I also remember a RIGHT winger running all the way to LEFT back, all to do the job of an enforcer and try to win the ball back.

If only all the team could be so motivated.

Hersi was shocking and he'd be playing to cross it in to Smeltz, not in Smeltz position.

I'm not really impressed with someone who can outmanoeuvre a CB and then can't use the ball properly or has terrible finishing but he's a perfect fit for Current Glory for sure.


Lowe is a headcase. I want someone to ask him how someone who's coached most of these kids or at least this generation, how he motivates and coaches when every second he's bagging them. A reporter gave him an opening to talk about the positives of Duncan's game and he then chooses to slam t he youngsters, once again.

But hey, "what's the fuss, we're still only 4 points off finals" :roll:

He doesn't want the assess the squad at the moment...yet he signed a VISA player is a weak spot for next season. Come on...

We hit 300 pages - I took a trip back to the first page.


-Promises of a glamour friendly that never came
-'newly created football role in back office' for AK
-bovs commenting "the club needs more "football" heads in the backroom. Not the likes of Gooch, Sage, etc trying to run a team that plays a game they don't even understand."
-People saying it's about time Perth did something about their results.



This was 2009 :lol:

I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that least some of that was directed at me. Thanks very much for putting words in my mouth.

GCU and NQF went down for financial reasons with Tinkler heading the same way. Not really the same situation.

What I don't really understand is your bitterness and vitriol towards people who simply want to see their club get back on track. Anything short of total hatred for Sage, Burns etc seems to equal unquestioning support in your books.

It must be reassuring to be so sure that you are right all the time.

I think biscuitman is just saying he doesn't want to chuck out Perth Glory and start a new franchise. I agree with that and it appears that f1dave does too.

I think the only difference on this point is perhaps the degree of pessimism that Glory under Sage can get anything close to being on the right track.

Edit: didn't see biscuitman's reply before posting.

@ATE - I too was astounded by the presser when the reporter said that a positive was that Duncan was outstanding and Lowe disagreed! I presume he meant that he didn't want to take positives out of the game, but it definitely came across as if Lowe didn't think Duncan played well. I didn't see the last game, so can't comment, but if a reporter thinks the keeper was outstanding, then he was probably ok.

I am sure Lowe IS assessing the squad as part of making his case to get the job and now to try to stay on. He just didn't want to do it in the presser, which is fair enough. The problem however is that fans can take little confidence that candid assessments are being made, rather than ones that accommodate self interest (of senior players, of Lowe and those of Sage). The club trots out excuses and blame, rather than indicating that they have a plan to stop the rot. The level of trust is at an all time low, hence the disagreement on this thread as to whether it may be possible for the club to head in the right direction under Sage.

Edited by GloryB: 26/3/2014 12:56:28 AM

Basically this is where the fundamental model of the club, and any club that can be 'owned' in its entirety, is flawed in regards to being a supporter of that club. If the club is owned and the owners aren't answerable to the fans, then the "fans" are really just consumers with an inflated sense of loyalty that drives them to consume the product regardless of quality or price.

Would you keep going to Glory games if the price was raised to $100 a ticket? What if Sage started selling squad positions to kids with rich parents? What if the colours and name were changed by Sage himself, thus making a new "Perth Utd" a continuation of the original Perth Glory?

If a club has a model whereby the management structure is in some way elected or accountable to its member base (as with many European football clubs and also a number of AFL clubs among others) then being a "fan" has some meaning. I have... through what I've experienced supporting Perth Glory since the beginning of the HAL... decided that any a club without this level of accountability isn't really a club at all; it's just a business selling a product. And the product, I'm sure we all agree, is absolutely woeful and has been for a number of years now.

If other fans want to think that protest chants, booing, etc. in some way make Sage answerable... even when Sage himself has publicly dismissed the notion that fans are unhappy at the moment... then that's up to them. But as I've pointed out I honestly believe that doing so is endorsing a club that is harming the game itself, and I care about the game which is why I keep pointing out the consequences of those actions.

It's nothing personal against Sage, or Burns, or Lowe, or anyone else... the only reason I single out the current administrators for criticism is that they've shown no inclination to even acknowledge a problem with how the club is being run let alone fix it. In an unlikely scenario where Sage and Brewer acknowledge a better way of doing things then I'd be happy to support them and those actions. But there's only so long one can wait before moving on becomes the only reasonable option.

A I cannot remeber a single supporter complaining to Sage in Tinbillys on Grand Final weekend

It wasn't clear at that stage which was the aberration; the surge to the GF appearance, or the shower of shit that preceded it. In hindsight, it was clearly the GF appearance that was the aberration.

But seriously, which of the Perth Glory front office staff are you?

Yeah, the year Sage first "did something" and bring a group of players together (Coyne, Burns, Sterj, Jelic, Todd) to get results. As your blog the other week showed, he still hasn't learnt from the mistakes made then.

Claim words have been put in mouth...then put words in other people's mouths :D

We'd all love a rose-tinted skip-for-joy Perth Glory but that is not even the discussion. How long has it been since the club has been professionally run? How long must we wait until Sage finally starts running the club as an actual footballing club?

If Sage Out isn't an option why not Perth Black. If you want to continue to support and encourage something that is ending up as Perth Glory in name only, that's your personal choice. If Lowe is appointed for next season (with Burns at the club as coach) that is the 4th time an assistant will be coach of Glory, the fifth time Sage has gone with a cheap option. If you think there's something to look forward too, again that's your view. Please, point out where I said you can't express/hold those viewpoints.

You brought up the licenses, I pointed out they were irrelevant. They have nothing to do with the stability of a club or the whims of the FFA if a club is folding.

I have a contrary opinion to yours. I am expressing it. As you acknowledge, I strongly agree with MY opinion (otherwise, what's the point of having one), so I'm glad you realise that. Not sure why you are so defensive nor how you can call it vitriolic. Go see Straight Bat's posts if you want to spot the differences.

I'm a realist. I don't want Sage at Perth Glory. I don't want that because Sage once took my parking space and I have a vendetta against him, I want that because I think it's the best way Glory will improve off the field and on it. But if you're going to go down that route then you have to rationally prepare yourself that Glory may fold. So be it. Ergo New Perth. As people point out, it's important that there is a Perth team, so it can't be that far out of the realms of plausibility. No more than what we've seen that Sage will finally get things right.

If you'd like to enter a discussion and discuss any of the points or questions I made (the only one you really responded to was GCU/NQF), be my guest, I'm not stopping you.

Yeah I think that was the theme to another of Dave's blog. Where under the current owner model fans become nothing more than consumers.

There does have to be a Tipping Point. I guess some people reach it differently. I'm just not one for misguided loyalty. You have a relative that's an alcoholic, you don't take them with you to the pub to "be there" for them, you take them to rehab.



Ah yes, just what could have been happening that weekend to distract people...

When you consider those stats Dave published, how much worse Glory would be without that 4-month run of form over the 4 seasons? How do you explain that away with your sniping?