Kewell: Ref Killed My Cup [FFT Article]


Kewell: Ref Killed My Cup [FFT Article]

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Barishnakopf
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Being OBJECTIVE, it was a red. Watch the reply and you'll see his arm move out, away from his body, and makes contact with the ball. I don't think he did it on purpose, I think it was just a reflex. As much as I hate to admit it he denied a goal scoring opportunity, ref was right :(


What do you think about the FourFourTwo article Kewell: Ref Killed My Cup?
SOCCEROOS striker Harry Kewell said he was devastated by his red card early in Saturday's World Cup clash with Ghana and feels that the decision by referee Roberto Rosetti has killed his World Cup dream.

Have your say.
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regardless if he's right or wrong, the ref was shit overall and fortunately for him, he won't ever have to be accountable for his actions.
afromanGT
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:-({|= :-({|= Feel sorry for ya Harry, but you should have been marking your man instead of on the goal line letting him have a shot on goal.

And again, nothing can be done now.
Neil Evans
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Kennedy and Wilkshere butchered perfect opportunities to make it 2-1. When it's all said and done, in 2006 we had a shit load of luck to get to the second round, while this time around we haven't gotten any. And as a result, Hiddink = genius and Pim = idiot.
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Neil Evans wrote:
Kennedy and Wilkshere butchered perfect opportunities to make it 2-1. When it's all said and done, in 2006 we had a shit load of luck to get to the second round, while this time around we haven't gotten any. And as a result, Hiddink = genius and Pim = idiot.
Not really, when you consider the 2006 squad, all our players were playing regularly in top flight european leagues, not only that but they were in their prime. Some of the best talent Australia has ever produced in Emerton, Bresciano, Grella, Viduka, Kewell, Neill, Moore, Aloisi, Chipperfield all playing regularly(besides Kewell) in their respective first XI in Europe and all in their prime. Their caliber is compounded verily when you consider that such was the depth of our squad Cahill was an impact man who came off the bench, now hes our talisman. So I really don't think it was luck, so much as deserved, what exactly was lucky about our round 16n birth last time?

I think Craig Foster evaluated the difference between the two(2006 and 2010)squads in saying "Last time it was belief, this time its hope," that was before the slaughter at the hands of Germany mind you.
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Dogsdogsdogs wrote:
. So I really don't think it was luck, so much as deserved, what exactly was lucky about our round 16n birth last time?


Maybe the offside goal that Kewell scored to equalise against Croatia :lol:

Edited by sydneycroatia58: 20/6/2010 04:28:18 AM
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Quote:
Kennedy and Wilkshere butchered perfect opportunities to make it 2-1.

To be fair, that was a tough one for Kennedy. Wilkshire should have buried it though.
Quote:
And as a result, Hiddink = genius and Pim = idiot.

Hiddink wasn't a genius, but he was still a better tactician than Verbeek. But this was decided in qualifying, not AT the cup.
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sydneycroatia58 wrote:
Dogsdogsdogs wrote:
. So I really don't think it was luck, so much as deserved, what exactly was lucky about our round 16n birth last time?


Mye the offside goal that Kewell scored to equalise against Croatia :lol:
if you want to go down that road you could say that it was luck that Croatia got their second goal, since it wasn't a good shot at all and mostly due to some dreadful keeping by Kalac. Continuing down this path you could argue about the Croatian playing with 2 yellows, the ref calling time off and disallowing Aloisi's goal(which would have made it 3-2 at the time), the numerous handballs in the box that went unpenalised, the manhandling of Viduka etc. I watched the match just yesterday actually, Croatia were definitely lucky to draw.

Edited by Dogsdogsdogs: 20/6/2010 04:31:30 AM
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I don't belive it should have been a red simply because the pace of the ball was such that he couldn't avoid it. Fair enough to give a penalty shot, but it shouldn't have been a red.
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Dogsdogsdogs wrote:
sydneycroatia58 wrote:
Dogsdogsdogs wrote:
. So I really don't think it was luck, so much as deserved, what exactly was lucky about our round 16n birth last time?


Mye the offside goal that Kewell scored to equalise against Croatia :lol:
if you want to go down that road you could say that it was luck that Croatia got their second goal, since it wasn't a good shot at all and mostly due to some dreadful keeping by Kalac. Continuing down this path you could argue about the Croatian playing with 2 yellows, the ref calling time off and disallowing Aloisi's goal(which would have made it 3-2 at the time), the numerous handballs in the box that went unpenalised, the manhandling of Viduka etc. I watched the match just yesterday actually, Croatia were definitely lucky to draw.

Edited by Dogsdogsdogs: 20/6/2010 04:31:30 AM


Don't worry I agree that Croatia were lucky to get a draw and we probably deserved another 3 penalties in that game. The thing is the way it went we were lucky because Kewell was offside. What was and wasn't given before that doesn't matter because we were lucky it. wasn't called back.

As for Aloisi's goal at the end it technically wasn't disallowed because the the ref blew fulltime before it went in :lol:
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asurin wrote:
I don't belive it should have been a red simply because the pace of the ball was such that he couldn't avoid it. Fair enough to give a penalty shot, but it shouldn't have been a red.


Thing is once he gave the penalty he had to give the red he had no other choice.
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sydneycroatia58 wrote:
Dogsdogsdogs wrote:
sydneycroatia58 wrote:
Dogsdogsdogs wrote:
. So I really don't think it was luck, so much as deserved, what exactly was lucky about our round 16n birth last time?


Mye the offside goal that Kewell scored to equalise against Croatia :lol:
if you want to go down that road you could say that it was luck that Croatia got their second goal, since it wasn't a good shot at all and mostly due to some dreadful keeping by Kalac. Continuing down this path you could argue about the Croatian playing with 2 yellows, the ref calling time off and disallowing Aloisi's goal(which would have made it 3-2 at the time), the numerous handballs in the box that went unpenalised, the manhandling of Viduka etc. I watched the match just yesterday actually, Croatia were definitely lucky to draw.

Edited by Dogsdogsdogs: 20/6/2010 04:31:30 AM
As for Aloisi's goal at the end it technically wasn't disallowed because the the ref blew fulltime before it went in :lol:
its a dam shame to, i would have liked to finish with two wins.
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asurin wrote:
I don't belive it should have been a red simply because the pace of the ball was such that he couldn't avoid it. Fair enough to give a penalty shot, but it shouldn't have been a red.

The thing is, if the referee awards the foul there, because it's a professional foul - ie it's deemed to be a deliberate attempt to handle the ball to prevent a goal (which it wasn't) - the referee has no choice but to show him a straight red because he was the last man.
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Who says it was deliberate? in Serbia's first game against Ghana a player went to head the ball with what was deemed to be an accidental hand ball and only got a yellow card (and subsequent penalty).
The fact is Kewell had little chance at that pace to move and acted with instinct, trying to get his chest onto the ball. He had much less time to think about it than the Serbian player, yet this constitutes a red card????
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Barishnakopf wrote:
Being OBJECTIVE, it was a red. Watch the reply and you'll see his arm move out, away from his body, and makes contact with the ball. I don't think he did it on purpose, I think it was just a reflex. As much as I hate to admit it he denied a goal scoring opportunity, ref was right :(


What do you think about the FourFourTwo article Kewell: Ref Killed My Cup?
SOCCEROOS striker Harry Kewell said he was devastated by his red card early in Saturday's World Cup clash with Ghana and feels that the decision by referee Roberto Rosetti has killed his World Cup dream.

Have your say.
your not being objective....you have rocks in your head. Definitely NOT a red card as was Cahill's
The fact of the matter is that the Referee decided this game.
A clear studs up tackle from behind is a Red card right is a send off right?
Then why is it that something which is not so clear a Red Card and send off?

Watch the game again with an objective mind. You may have a different opinion .

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If this was in reverse everyone would be saying how terrible the ref was and saying why didnt he get sent off..

Just saying :P
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i agree moxstar, aussie did bloody well though and if that fulla the end had shot properly iy would have been 2-1 and in the drivers seat for the next round...

no one has mentioned how furious Pim Verbeek must be... his two best players sent off in two games for school boy fouls and errors... everyone knows that the refs are super pedantic at world cups... so no tackling from behind and Harry, if you are on the line you do not stick your arms out for balance...
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typical Harry Kewell, complains no matter what - maybe he should just shut up and cop it on the chin as it was a deserved red card offence! his a disgrace with the way he carries on in games against the referees!
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Quote:
no one has mentioned how furious Pim Verbeek must be...
that's because no one cares what Verbeek thinks. :)
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I would say Kewell's hand ball was deliberate because the hardest thing to do when a flying object is coming at you at speed is to keep your arms still and not try to use them to shield yourself.

Kewell kept his right arm hanging by his side and in line with the flight of the ball that was going in the net. He didn't move his arm out of the way. He knew what he was doing.
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I hate to say it but after checking the slow mo a few times the Ref had to give him a red.
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So just as my faith is restored in Moore, he goes and gets himself suspended for the next match. Oh well, time for Beauchamp to step up.
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People who are saying it was a deserved red card are wrong. Ref made some glaring mistakes, where was the lost time in the first half? I thought ball to shoulder is not handball. The Swedish commentators i was listening too were actually talking about the incompetence of the ref. If it is any compensation I think Australia earned themselves a reputation as real fighters and not cheats. The Ghanians have done the opposite along with the disgraceful Italian ref.
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Anyone who thinks that was a red card is a C**t.
Read the rule as stated in the article.

'A player is sent off, however, if he prevents a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball. This punishment arises not from the act of the player deliberately handling the ball but from the unacceptable and unfair intervention that prevented a goal being scored

If you think Harry's arm being attached to his shoulder is unfair or unacceptable. And that he deliberately handled the ball you are wrong in both law and fact.

Watch it all you like in super-slow-mo. The event happened in real time, and should be judged in that. NO WAY he can get out of the way of that ball. Humanly impossible.
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Quote:
'Gutted' Kewell praises team-mates

An ambiguous decision by Italian referee Roberto Rosetti to send Harry Kewell off in the 25th minute of Australia's match against Ghana for deliberate handball has left Australia's World Cup campaign hanging by a thread.

Speaking after Australia’s brave 1-1 draw with Ghana in Rustenburg, heartbroken Kewell pleaded not guilty to the offence but said he had to take the controversial decision on the chin.

”I am devastated,” Kewell said.

”The guy has killed my World Cup. He is the judge, jury, and executioner. I am devastated but that is football. You take the good with the bad. I have had some great moments and some bad moments. I didnt mean to get sent off but what can you do?”

“I think the referee did have a look at the screen but once he has made his decision he has to stick by it. He is the referee. You can’t tell him what to do.”

While Australia’s players protested the hard-line decision, Kewell revealed Rosetti told him to “just go” and he had to watch the remainder of the match in the dressing room under watch from a security guard.

Kewell claimed he had been intending to chest the goal-bound ball away from danger but instead, it hit his arm.

“If you look at the situation, OK, maybe it has hit my arm but it was not deliberate,” Kewell said.

“I was only trying to get my shoulder out of the way but the ref made a decision that only he can probably answer.

“Unless I detach my arm and put it somewhere else there is no way I can move my arm.

“I didn't deliberately go for the hand, I didn’t try to handball it, I tried to use my chest, playing by the rules, but the ref saw it another way and was probably the only one who did.

“Was it a red card? We have some decisions in this World Cup that haven't been red cards.

“So why is this one different? I think that’s why everyone gets confused and everyone gets frustrated with referees because one minute they are saying this and this and then next.

Kewell, who was starting his fist match since January, paid tribute to Australia’s performance before and, importantly, after - his ejection.

“I thought the team set out to do what we planned to do and we got the early goal,” Kewell said. “OK, they started to come back a little bit but we got a grip on it, we controlled it. But a decision like that has probably haunted us throughout the World Cup.

“That is football and you have to take it on the chin.

“It showed today that we went out there and played the way we should have played against Germany and it is a shame we didn’t have 11 men for 90 minutes.

“We had great support out there and it is a shame that they have come such a long way. It is a shame. I cant put it into words.

“I am gutted.”
http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/socceroos/news/1009499/-Gutted-Kewell-praises-team-mates

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We have had the Graham Poll award. SBS can now bring us the Roberto Rosetti award.

The boys did well to bounce back after Germany. It is unfortunate that they were effectively playing 10 men against 12.

Overall the ref had a shocker. There were a number of decisions the ref made which could have been game changers. The game needn't have turned on the red card decision.
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It's a clear Red Card. The ball was going in and his arm which was away from his body stopped the ball going in. Clear prevention of the ball hitting the back of the Net = Red Card!

Reading 8 other global press including non speaking ones all have no doubts on the Red card or on the other referee decisions.

The only ones that are crying about it are the Aussie press and the three Monkeys on TV (Zelic, Ugly Bean Pole and the striker who cant score from 1 yard - What's his name?). Never heard some much crap come out like I did last night. Muscat also was talking some crap too! Should'nt he be doing Pre Season with Victory??????

Pim is the biggest joke I have ever seen. Has failed in every job he has and now he has done the same. At least he is consistant. He makes Mitchell and Merrick look like Mourinho or Guardiola!
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liverpool6 - i am not at all surprised that your a liverpool fan.
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the one stand-out at this world cup is the shit standard of the refs. the game before aus v ghana the ref was very reluctant to give a card and then you get a card happy ref what the? are the refs on a qouta system for giving cards?
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We let them in after our goal. When yoo go one up early, you try to make it 2, not hope to hang on for 80 minutes to a 1-0. Thats waht lead to the penalty, that and the fact that Wilky and Emerton let a man get through both of them tight up against the corner line. The defending has been woeful at times.
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spence wrote:
Who says it was deliberate? in Serbia's first game against Ghana a player went to head the ball with what was deemed to be an accidental hand ball and only got a yellow card (and subsequent penalty).
The fact is Kewell had little chance at that pace to move and acted with instinct, trying to get his chest onto the ball. He had much less time to think about it than the Serbian player, yet this constitutes a red card????


The difference between Kewell's and the two Serbians and the Algerian handball's is that they did NOT deny an obvious goalscoring opposrtunity

Kewell's arms were in constant movement during him being on the line and probably did not work in his favor
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Hard to have any sympathy for Kewell. After 6mths off he was straight back to snarling at the ref over imaginary fouls from the second he got on the park. Its his own sense of personal entitlement that has ruined his cup..not the ref...Just shut up and play HK.

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1) Harry should not have left his man to run over to the post

2) Harry braced his arm for impact instead of pulling it out of the way and just leaning across to block with his body

3) Harry is an experienced player and should know not to even RISK putting his arm near the ball in the penalty area

4) The shoulder is counted as part of the arm (this is a grey area, and depends heavily on the ref)


Conclusion:

Any experienced player should know that conceding an early goal is better than conceding an early red card and a penalty. Harry fucked up, and he put himself at the referees mercy. Despite the referee's shit overall performance, 99% of refs would have also given a red card, especially given his viewing angle and the fact that he doesn't get slow-mo replays.

We deserved the red, they deserved the penalty, it was Harry's own fault, not the ref's.

I thought the Aussies did well with 10-men, and if Harry let that shot go in without touching it, we could have easily come back (we still had 70 minutes to play).
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It was a clear red - he made himself big on the goal line. Even at lower league level, if your on the line or even attempting to block a shot in the box, put your hands behind your back. Once it hit him in the arm and denied a goal while he was making himself big on the line, the ref had no other option.
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I was gutted that you guys couldn't put that final chance away, after playing so well with 10 I really thought you deserved the three points - other than optimistic long shots, Ghana really only had one chance on top of that penalty.
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Poll: Rate the decision to send Harry Kewell off against Ghana.
Spot on
9%
Unlucky, but fair
26%
Harsh call
66%
This is what the public are saying, you people who say it was a fair decision would be a minority
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If the roles were reversed and it was a Ghana player instead of Kewell we would have still been calling the ref a c*nt if he didn't send him off. That's the breaks in soccer unfortunately.

In '06,
-Cahill gave away a penalty at 1-1 against Japan but ref missed it
-Kewell manhandled and abused the ref after the Brazil game and didn't get suspended
-Kewell's goal Vs Croatia 'looked' offside
so really we were 'lucky' to advance to the 2nd rd but 'unlucky' to get knocked out by Italy.

We were always playing for luck in this WC. That's what countries like Australia rely on to get anywhere. Hasn't gone our way so far.... but if Ghana beat Germany in the 92nd minute and we get a dodgy offside goal against the Serbs............

Edited by smfc and proud: 20/6/2010 07:56:38 PM
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norimike wrote:
Anyone who thinks that was a red card is a C**t.
.


Then call me a c**t
afromanGT
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RonnieWhelan wrote:
norimike wrote:
Anyone who thinks that was a red card is a C**t.
.


Then call me a c**t

You're a c**t.

Seriously though. It's a 50/50 decision and you see it turned down all the time. We were unlucky.
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sydneycroatia58 wrote:
asurin wrote:
I don't belive it should have been a red simply because the pace of the ball was such that he couldn't avoid it. Fair enough to give a penalty shot, but it shouldn't have been a red.


Thing is once he gave the penalty he had to give the red he had no other choice.


Precisely. It was a denial of a goal scoring opportunity, last man on the line. Rules are rules.
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Should Harry Kewell have been given a red card for handball in the Socceroos' clash with Ghana?
Yes - it was deliberate
19.82% (9201 votes)
No - he couldn't avoid the shot
80.18% (37219 votes)
Total votes: 46420
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Giovanni Coppola wrote:
Poll: Rate the decision to send Harry Kewell off against Ghana.
Spot on
9%
Unlucky, but fair
26%
Harsh call
66%
This is what the public are saying, you people who say it was a fair decision would be a minority


Yeah like 442 forumites make up the majority of football fans :lol: :oops: ](*,) :-" :-k :-k :-k :-k :-k :-k :-k :-k
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Giovanni Coppola wrote:
Should Harry Kewell have been given a red card for handball in the Socceroos' clash with Ghana?
Yes - it was deliberate
19.82% (9201 votes)
No - he couldn't avoid the shot
80.18% (37219 votes)
Total votes: 46420


How many of the 46420 voters have read and understood the rules of the game?


Denis Law
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Benjamin wrote:
Giovanni Coppola wrote:
Should Harry Kewell have been given a red card for handball in the Socceroos' clash with Ghana?
Yes - it was deliberate
19.82% (9201 votes)
No - he couldn't avoid the shot
80.18% (37219 votes)
Total votes: 46420


How many of the 46420 voters have read and understood the rules of the game?



A hell of a lot more than the people who post on here.
General Ashnak
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was still a 50/50 call at best, it was a clear penalty - but I still do not think it past the 'deliberate' test. The ref made his decision based on the fact that Kewells arm moved so much after the ball smashed into the top of it rather than because he had a clear view of what occured.

If you want to talk a bout clear interpretations of the rules is there any leeway for a studs up late challenge from behind being anything other than a straight red?

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he better play in 2014.
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It was a clear red card and penalty. I'm sorry he moved his hand, maybe he should moved his hand behind his back instead leaning his hand towards the ball or he should have done a bicycle kick. He's our best player in a generation isn't he?

Cafu and Robert Carlos can do bicycle kick so it shouldn't be to hard for Kewell isn't it?
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Giovanni Coppola wrote:
Poll: Rate the decision to send Harry Kewell off against Ghana.
Spot on
9%
Unlucky, but fair
26%
Harsh call
66%
This is what the public are saying, you people who say it was a fair decision would be a minority

Minority think it isn't a red? Actually the general public of Australia is a minority compare with 6.5 billion people!

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General Ashnak wrote:
was still a 50/50 call at best, it was a clear penalty - but I still do not think it past the 'deliberate' test. The ref made his decision based on the fact that Kewells arm moved so much after the ball smashed into the top of it rather than because he had a clear view of what occured.

If you want to talk a bout clear interpretations of the rules is there any leeway for a studs up late challenge from behind being anything other than a straight red?


Thing is, if it was a penalty then it had to be a red card.

Laws of the game should be changed to allow non-deliberate hand balls which is what happened here.

A deliberate HB is one where the hand/arm moves towards the ball. A stationary hand/arm and a ball hitting it in a goal scoring situation is non-deliberate, but is still a red as the laws are written.

In these situations it should be a penalty and a yellow. Dunno how hard that can be.

What about a situation where a ball is smashed in the direction of a player's face and he raises his hands to protect himself? As it stands now it would be a red and a penalty, but should be a yellow and a penalty.

If Harry was diving to stop it, then yeah, fuck him off with a red.




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