smeltz was onside when the free kick was taken. The only way he would be offside was if Reid touched the ball, and that was very debateable. After three viewings I couldn't see that he did. So no clear or obvious offside. Line call at best.
As far as pulling the shirt inside the box goes. Have you ever watched soccer? Evertime a coconut in their is holding in the box. Simulation is also a yellow card, so take your pick on that one. There was no way he was going to get to the ball.

Agreed on the Smeltz goal - benefit of the doubt to the attacking team.
But I can't understand the supposed 'controversy' about the penalty - he had a fistful of his shirt and was inviting trouble.

and to diego's son and his mate
what the kiwi side have done over this world cup campaign is create heroes for kids
there is no way NZ will ever compete at world level and with similar technical skill unless more kids are excited to play young and continue playing. That's what this world cup has a chance of inspiring for our kids.

The kiwi team is playing to it's strengths and within it's limitations and with heart, organisation, sheer effort and not without some degree of skill and talent. Right now we cannot expect more. That's who they are. If we are going to be a more fluent and skillfull team in the future it will be on the back of the kids watching today's game.

Good luck to Aus. Your guys haven't had the best of luck. But yeah, Grella (esp) and Cahill didn't make fans of kiwis in that friendly and if you can't stand a bit of good kiwi gibbing in Phoenix games then you're not true aussies. Harden up.

lol, rubbish post. who ever said that anyone was going to "take this result as a SUSTAINABLE measure of their footballing capability"? get your hand off it mate.

I agree regarding your comments about a draw being a good result for Australia against Germany, but I really do not think they can be compared with Italy. Italy are a slower, older team, past their prime. This is the same way that Australia's team is also past its prime. Australia had its time in 2006, and in all reality missed its best time to perform in 1998 and 2002, with overall stronger line ups.

Pim is known to be defensive and knows that playing 3 up front really is not going to work against quicker teams. He plays a counter attacking style and got us through a difficult qualifying process, but really has never been loved though by the broader football publc in this country. We expect beautiful, flowing football and we do not get it, therefore, we get annoyed :) Herberts style would definately not be viewed any better here though in a national team context. Pims tactics are stronger overall, its just a matter of putting them into action.

We congratulate NZ on their efforts, but I think we just see a draw these days as a missed result in this countries football development. Our expectations are higher, so we often miss the excitement that you are feeling for your teams draws.

One thing though, NZ Football would likely be nowhere though if not for the A League and its injection of energy in the game there, so that should not be overlooked, as many NZ posts over the years have tried to deny. In all reality, the 2 countries have worked together and it has shown results in growing the sport. The fact that Ricki Herbert has been able to get valuable coaching time with a pro team, along with many NZ players, is a victory for NZ football. AFC were againt it, FFA wanted to keep you, and the results now bear fruit for you.



Edited by Heart_fan: 21/6/2010 02:20:09 PM

Mate you're off the mark. All I'm saying is that for instant gratification, sure I'd want to see my team manage a couple of draws against bigger opposition as NZ have done. Not questioning this achievement at all and there is joy to be had in that.

But for an indication of how NZ football (and Australiasian football) is coming along, I just would have liked to have seen SOME, just a little enterprise and meaningful construction in the All Whites general play, even if it was basic counter-attacking. When in possession (which was very infrequent)there were times when your midfielders were kicking the ball out of play, in the absence of having a passing option to go to. Yes a result was manufactured and it is a great boost for football in NZ, but in a football sense, it was one of the most one-sided affairs I have ever witnessed.

Call me a wet blanket. Most likely, I want, what you want. But as a non Kiwi, I look at it from my own viewpoint.

lol at the people saying NZ were outplayed, they have two free agents, 2-3 players who play in wellingtons local league, 4 a-leaguers and the rest playing in fairly shitty club in europe. of course they were outplayed, the triumph is they held the former world champions to a draw when the odds were so clearly stacked against them. jesus christ what stupidity - "YEAH BUT NZ WERE OUTPLAYED SO IT DOESNT MATTER," yeh really bra, i was expecting NZ to walk all over them given their vast talent pool.

Just for you DS so what if have only created the account today i have been reading the forums for sometime and no it isnt a multi.So this community dosnt welcome new members thats nice to know.For your information i happen to be married to an Aussie and about the only time i dont support them is when they are playing us.Some of you are guys are so shit scared to see us doing okay its funny to see you attack us.I couldnt give a shit what it looks like if it gets the job done,better to advance looking bad than go out playing like world beaters.
Not sure i understand your constant need to be having a crack either on here or on our YF forums.Would have thought you guys would be happy that some more A league players are in the spot light,its got to hopefully be good for our league.

From what I have seen most NZ football fans support the Socceroos when they are playing, and going by the comments in here most Australian fans support NZ.
Likwewise while allowing the Phoenix in the A-League has been a life saver for NZ football, the Phoenix have produced one of the most well organised clubs in the league, great income for the FFA in the finals series, and now massive publicity.
Clearly mutually beneficial, Diego's Son and Notorganic however can keep standing in the corner on their own with their rather pathetic little narrow mindedness.

So... when someone has an opinion that differs from yours it's pathetic?

I don't disagree that the Phoenix has played a huge part in bringing football in NZ to the fore. I do disagree that having a Kiwi team in an Australian domestic league is mutually beneficial. In the bigger picture having Wellington in the league has been detrimental to Australian football, and will continue to be so when the AFC decides not to allow more than two Champions League spots.

Whether people stand with me on my opinions is irrelevant.

Great result for NZ - enjoy the result and I hope you spring a surprise on paraguay.

Personally i don't have much interest in an Aus v NZ rivalry and have a fraternal attitude to our commonwealth cousins such that I was riding every clearance as if I was a kiwi.

as for penalty - yep it was a shirt pull so you can see technically why it was given (just like the handball the other night) but it was also a massive dive involved which was way out of proportion to the shirt pull. however such infringements are so rarely given (see DeMerit on Heskey for some real shirt pulling or the Slovenians on Dempsey) that it smacks of yet another decision for a 'big' nation. I doubt if it was Cannavaro on Smeltz that it would have been given - that is what gets on people's nerves. Some of the diving or going to ground in this World Cup has been beyond the pale - especially when a player has miscontrolled the ball so they throw themselves to the ground and get a free.

As for offside it took me about 5 viewings before i could figure that it probably did glance off Reid so how can a ref etc pick this up in real time.

notorganic - nothing pathetic about having an opinion different to mine, what's pathetic is being cynical and negative all the time and finding any occasion you can to be so.

It is the AFC's decision how many ACL spots to give Australia not NZ's, and the main limiting factor is the number of teams in the league, not that the Phoenix are there.

You're right. The AFC will simply sit down and shut up because FIFA told them that Phoenix could stay.
[size=2]
(I hope you don't need to be told that I'm being sarcastic, cynical and negative with this post)[/size]

Nothing to do with FIFA having told them the Phoenix can stay. The AFC's rationale for allocation of ACL places has been clear from the outset (long before the recent five year extension), and as I just mentioned a key criteria is number of teams in the league. Do you understand yet?

:roll:

You are doing everything in your power to be a boring, patronising cock... aren't you.

I'm fully aware of the AFC's stated criteria when considering the ACL places. You're kidding yourself if you think that Wellington being around is not a factor that will hold us back in the future.

Are you guys going to harp on about that for here on in.

Go and look at the money Melb Victory generated for the FFA via the 2007, 2009 and 2010 finals. Then come and talk to us.

Like notorganic said, we question the full benefits to Aus of having a NZ-based team in the comp. We're not saying we are against it, but we have a right to question it. You're on an Australian website after all. Similar to the fact I don't post much on YF anymore. You respect the 'local rules' as such.

Oh and save the 'narrow mindedness' comment for elsewhere, it washes off like anything.

Ditto and interesting that the African nations are in solidarity.



Good post, Reid did make slight contact but would have been hard for anyone in real time to see it. Go and tell the likes of Hard News from the Yellow Fever forum that, he doubts there was contact.

Edited by diego's son: 21/6/2010 05:17:17 PM

If a Nzer said it was black you would insist that it was white.

I don't think anyone in NZ has any illusions about our place in world football but we are punching well above our weight class and enjoying the ride. The tactics may not be flash but it's all about doing the best we possibly can by playing to our strengths and recognising our limitations.

The support on this forum for the All Whites achievements has been fantastic - I only wish we could be as gracious with Aussie success - we have a wee way to go.

I hope Aussie get through their group - imagine what Aussie and NZ doing well at the WC would do for your WC bid. I, for one, would love to have the opportunity to attend a WC in Australia.

If it helps, Shane Smeltz said that Winston Reid got a glance in an interview on 3 News here in NZ so yeah it was off-side, but so was the goal Slovakia scored against NZ in the first match. It's swings and roundabouts and one of the beauties of the beautiful game - no interference from technology.

Either way it doesn't matter - the draw feels like a win to everyone here.

Ok, so here's a question to those more wise than I; what happens if we draw with Paraguay and Italy draws with Slovakia with both matches ending with the same score (ie 2 x 1-1 draws)? That would see Paraguay at top and Slovakia at bottom and us and Italy both on 3 points with exactly the same stats....so who goes through??

They draw lots

Huh? What does this mean?

Hope it dosnt come to that as there is no way Fifa want our name to come out of that hat.

Sepp Blatter chooses. Italy are fucked.

Yep - if both games are draws with the same score then lots are drawn. Now THAT would be a heartbreaking way to go out of the cup.

Scoring goals has to be their goal.

Regardless of an italian falling over... holding the shirt is a foul

I see we have the finest minds of the internet debating the issues at hand here.

Italy will go through courtesy of the finest magnets FIFA can buy.

If you watch the replay in slow motion, the rotation of the ball actually changes as it goes over Reid. Either Reid has his own gravitiational pull, or the ball made contact.

As for the blithering idiots debating Wellington Phoenix, take it to AF and shut up.

I am glad you got my point but now you are confusing me with Diego's Son.

Being a professional footballer, my opinion is better than yours, SC03.