Well it doesn't have to be limited to the central defender to push forward. It really depends which side of the park the ball is on. Left or right defender can move into an attacking position if the ball is right or left.

Most games are won or lost in the midfield. With defenders pushing forward to form up 5 across the middle this gives the numbers advantage in most cases except the 4-3-3 when the two wingers drop back to mids forming up a 4-5-1 which means equal mids. However the amount of work required by wingers to automatically drop back into a 4-5-1 sees them tire very quickly (AKA Harry Kewell's complaint of the 4-3-3). The 4-4-2 forming up to 3-5-2 only requires one player to move forward and any defender can interchange into the 3-5-2 attack formation which spreads the workload around.

Another key tactic is for players to slide across the park in the mids stacking the area of the ball and giving players more options. This usually give a total numbers advantage in any one given area.

So compared to a 3-5-2 attack and 4-4-2 defence,
4-3-3 has less mids, 3-4-3 has less mids, 4-5-1 has equal mids but requires heavy workload from wingers, 5-4-1 also requires heavy workload from players but has the overall defensive advantage. 2-5-3 when attacking is susceptible to counters.

Interesting discussion FMVS and food for thought, Thanks for your feedback.

Edited by Aussiesrus: 20/11/2010 09:05:25 AM

what is the FFA Skilleroos program?

http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/australia/news/1034587/FFA-s-plan-to-win-Qatar-2022



Edited by krones3: 5/12/2010 08:51:53 AM

This could be a very effective tactic in competitive senior sides but I would not reccomend using this with any youth teams purely because it is too one dimensional in attacking straight down the middle.
The problem with Australia is we don't produce enough wingers and our young fullbacks, because they are being taught at a young age by people who dont understand the game that they should always back. That is what this tactic is promoting defensive fullbacks and wingers, which is fine if thats what you want but our national curriculum clearly states otherwise. The two fullbacks in attack are essentially central defenders and because of their defensive duties one failed dribble by a winger could result in an easy counter attack which could kill the childs confidence and stop him becoming a special no fear type winger that we all love to see.

Some good points have been made in this discussion.

With juniors (even seniors) it is preferable to play a shape with few variations well. This is opposed to implementing a number of variations on a formation poorly. A formation is only effective as long as a team keeps its shape. If a team it loses it, it becomes ineffective.

Correct distancing between, and within, the lines is paramount.

Various coaches have spoken about using complex variations of shapes in junior/youth teams. Often when one observes them in practice, the shapes can be difficult to decipher.

When the Tasmanian team played the Central Coast Mariners in the middle of the year, they lost their shape for extended periods in the first half. It was during its loss of shape periods that Tasmania suffered its least effective passages of the match.

Edited by Decentric: 5/12/2010 11:37:53 PM

For professional teams it is useful for teams to change from a 4-3-3 with the forwards triangle in midfield, to a 2-5-3 in attack.

Another variation of a 4-2-3-1 in defence is becoming a 3-3-3-1 in attack. Professional teams are extremely fit and can adapt these variations.

Once amateur players start varying positions in the lines, depending on the main moments of play, ie when a team is in possession or not in possession, it is very difficult for amateur players to sustain the physical effort. This is particularly true on big pitches.

In the 4-3-3 with the backwards and forwards triangles, it really condenses midfield space.

The 4-5-1 doesn't place the same workload on wingers, as the wing backs in the 3-5-2. The onus on them is to almost cover three lines as opposed to the two wingers covering two in the 4-5-1.

Totally agree with your view regarding juniors. Keeping it simple with minimal formation changes gives the juniors a concrete block to work with. Then as they progress in years formation adaptations can be slowly introduced always using the original formation for reference in case it goes pear shaped. It's when complex formations are attempted the whole shape can become a mess.

Strangely enough with seniors keeping it simple is also the best option. It really depends on the level of players (and how bright they are) a coach is working with and the levels of fitness of his players.

As a former player who's now way past his playing day's I watch today kids from under 10's through to over 45's at various levels of the game and note some interesting observations.

Generally teams between,

10-14's tend to stick with the same formation throughout the match rotating players.

15-18's often start a formation but the formation changes by coaches replacing say a defender with mid or mid with attacker which changes the formation.

19-34's Will start a formation but by this age they are experienced enough to drop back or push forward changing formations constantly. This is when players are physically at their peak and the coach doesn't have to do the thinking for them.

35-45's+ This is where experience really shows and players tend to use positional play rather than the physical formation changes. The less physical work they do the better.

So just what is the best formation?

I really think it depends on the age group a coach is dealing with and the abilities of the players. No point choosing hard physical formations for the old boys and no point using complex formations for young kids. The best formation is the one that best suits your team you are coaching. If your team is winning a few games and enjoying themselves then your on the right path to the right formation. Keep it simple but slightly challenging.

Generally by half time a coach will know whether a formation change is required in accordance with areas that need assistance.

Edited by Aussiesrus: 13/12/2010 10:10:22 AM

http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/site/_content/document/00001565-source.pdf

Skillaroos is the name for the group of Under 13's that will be selected as part of the Skill Acquisition Program for each of the state bodies.

The SAP is going to be broken into two age groups - Phase 1 (9-11), and Phase 2 (12).

Essentially it'll be a group of kids who get year round Skills training from a Skill instructor 2 or 3 times a week and will replace the state U13 team.

Anyone in the Skillaroos won't be able to play winter football, and during Summer (VCL in vic) will have 1 session with a Skill Instructor, and 2 with their VCL who hopefully will be using the SAP as a model for their training sessions.

There was a presentation on this in Melbourne last night - so check your local state bodies about when they will be running their presentations / launches.

What did you think of the presentation forbze?

well, if we talk about the performance then france and brazil really done a good job in getting the world cup but may be this time they are out of luck or may be leading to the different path..


http://www.linkedin.com/answers/browse/marketing-sales/sales/lead-generation/MAR_SLS_LGN

I couldn't be bothered to go through all the posts but i done the olds Senior Licence. The exemption that i got was i could go straight to the Youth licence without doing grassroots or junior. It was the case when i done mine that the Youth Licence was the was the best you could hope to start at. I played super league and thought i was hard done by but i even had Paul Wade in my Youth licence! so no further exemptions (might have changed now?).

As for how the 4-3-3 compare to other formations, the 4-3-3 is very much about closing space when defending and requires players of i high technical knowledge as in players who can read a game, follow instructions and know where to be in a certain scenario. This formation is mainly played in zones or zonal when defending to cut out options and potential next pass closest to the ball.

Attacking wise it requires fast ball movement, triangles to keep options at all times but in my opinion most importantly it requires supporting play. One of the most technical Dutch coaches is/was Foppe De Hann. His philosophy was to play the ball as direct as possible, support the ball carrier and to always believe that the will to win has to be greater than the fear of losing.

Now with the direct play (and there is a difference between direct and long ball) the 2 wide men of the front 3 should hug the line and give the option of the direct pass from midfield or defence. When this happens the player in the # 10 role should be reading this pass and offer the option of a knock down from the wide player, then look to play the ball to the over lapping wing back. How it compares to other formations such as a 4-4-2 really depends on the players and the players ability to understand how to play the 4-3-3. When played well the 4-3-3 is very entertaining and hard to stop.

Without knowing what sort of knowlege the people on here have, i would strongly suggest watching games from the Eredivisie (only the better teams) and see how their patterns of play are.

Good Luck guys hope you find this all helpful and remember everything you learn or see are guidelines its up to you to implement them with your own stle and flavour.

Sorry - I only just saw this now...

I thought it was pretty much what it was going to be. It's a program that's been needed for a while - but, It's not exactly ground breaking stuff. I remember doing similar training when I was 8 or 9 when I was growing up in the UK. It's definitely good to have a standardised approach to coaching skills to youngsters tho. Can see it having a positive impact.

Will also be good to put pressure on some of the "money making" set-up's. I coach at an academy in Melb. The kids aged 8-12 train 6 sessions a week, and 12 - 18 train 7 sessions a week. Will be interested to see how we can apply the SAP to our coaching.




Edited by forbze: 28/12/2010 12:18:01 AM