:o :-s Fine I take that back, lol, I only brought it up as we have had those kinds of well worn discussions in the past on these forums (not saying you Skeptic), so I just brought that up in case tangents went that way (A-League).

Yes, I understand but seems we don't disagree/what are we arguing about? ...



Oh sorry, that is why I read into the A-League a little, my bad, hehe. Some may interpret the A-League and it's generic clubs that way ('removing the target of bigotry'), but if you weren't then I don't quite follow your point or why you brought it up.



Hehe, take it easy, don't get your knickers in a knot, no worries Skeptic, mayyyyyttee. ;) ;) :p

For the record, yardy yarda, I'd have 'no worries' watching a local state league game and I'm aware many of the teams in Perth's league were formed by migrant communities like, Italian community Perth SC, Swan IC (Swan United now) etc... it's just I don't for reasons, as others have suggested, state leagues don't appeal as much for same reasons the state leagues of Aussie Rules (WAFL), Rugby League or whatever probably don't appeal as much either. Plus, personally, I didn't grow up playing junior football for any of those clubs, if I did, then that may be different. I suppose if I was a more hardcore/more into football fan, then I'd might, heck even work/volunteer for the club on matchdays or something. If I can just catch the odd Glory game, when I can, that is just enough for me.

Hmm IF I was in Victoria though, not sure,IF I grew up there, I'd probably know more the reality, but just moving there, then yeah, stereotypes of the Knights especially, might put me off going to one of their home games, that is again, IF I ever had the urge to go to a State League game. I think South Melbourne not so much, as I've heard and even saw in the latter NSL days how accessible they tried to make the club. Again I stereotype based on ignorance and not to say Knights these days isn't accessible either, nor other clubs or what have you and depends 'where' in Melbourne I would be living too, like Dandenong Thunder might more be an option down SE Melbourne, or Hume City up NW of Melbourne or something - Those kinds of clubs I know very little about, I'd have little worries about, though I'd probably want to find out a little first before going (But that goes for most clubs anyway, if one comes from less informed starting point). BTW Heck, Atleast I as a West Aussie, even know of these clubs, heck, even dare I tread in a thread about VPL football - lol how did I end up here (Grassroots Football section) anyway, lol.

Anyway, most of us football fans, even surely 'macktheknife' we 'truly' know that even if, yeah, some clubs have not the best reputations even as fair or more unfair some of those reputations may be (Through media and even word of mouth), we still know, or would know, of clubs we 'think' we CAN go to watch where we think we don't have to 'live in fear,' similar to 11.mvfc.11's experience, and again, that's the thing with this site - we're all the converted and we ALL know that it isn't like the snippets some of us may've caught on the news in the 90s or something, if some of us were even around then to be seeing that fear mongering rubbish. Basically most of us would be generally 'relatively' more informed about local football and even atleast vague knowledge of our state league's, even if it's just because a few of us played junior football for a club in that area or something. I suppose again, we wouldn't be unlike asking many West Coast Eagles or Dockers fans, how many of their local WAFL clubs they can name etc... And again, we might be relatively more informed about our state leagues, compared to some AFL fans and their relative state league teams etc...

BTW All respect Skeptic, as in respect that you have probably supported the NSL/Australian football it seems for longer than I have even been around perhaps (You said you've been following the sport few decades in one of your posts), so I honestly mean no disrespect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_people

if the ffv gets its way this will be the final vpl season in its current form, they wanna bring in the new comp for the 2012 season.

If I was running the FFA I would take this as an opportunity to disband the FFV and get the clubs to create a new body to represent their state.

FFV has been sticking their arm into the S-bend for this idea.

According to the Melb knights facebook page the draw for the new season will be done tonight so wouldn't that mean any 'disbanding' will not take place?

I understood the need for a HAL even though don't agree with some aspects of it BUT there is absolutely no commercial or on-field need for a brand new franchise based, regionalised/zone competition to take over from the VPL. The current clubs in the face of massive adversity from those complete FFV criminals(Dunkerly & Rendell) are doing ok, are self sufficient, have junior set-ups, have their own homes and infrastructure etc.

No where in the world are clubs treated with such complete and utter contempt by their own governing body. The FFV are proposing revolution for revolutions sake. It's insane.

2nd tiers in any sport here are for the die-hards, they are never going to be for the masses. There are plenty of clubs black/white/yellow/ugly/smelly/garlicky.... for people to choose to go and watch out in the 'burbs if they're bored on the weekend.

wow thats crazy

It's just dog-whistling and scaremongering. If someone truly believes tat in this day and age in Australia, then the problem is with them, not with the football club.



I'm not connected to any VPL club, and only occasionally get to a game, but can see this is a ridiculous idea and a massive assault on the traditional custodians of the game. If FFV do actively go down this path, I hope the VPL clubs do split and go their own way.

Edited by sugoibaka: 22/11/2010 11:19:09 AM

It's a crazy idea.... will they force players to play for the district they live in, as well (like they tried to do back in the 1920's)?:lol:

If they tried this in SA, it would be quickly laughed into oblivion....

Proud clubs, who kept the game alive when nobody else could give a f*ck... Pushed further and further away from the game.

The point I was trying make a few posts above - is that at the moment the state league clubs give far more to the FFA than the FFA gives to them. I'm not sure how 8-12 privately funded regional 'franchise' sides could actually compete financially with the traditional clubs who's income won't ultimately be effected by this restructure.

I'm very curious as to what the FFV or FFA could do if the clubs were to resign and form their own competition. The clubs income would remain unchanged, but they would no longer have to pay fees to the FFV.

The thing is - if people worry about the gap between the old and the new now, you ain't seen anything compared to what may happen if this restructure takes place.

Something that really irritates me about this is that it will kill the fabric of local soccer in Victoria.

What seemingly started out as a crusade to eliminate the old nsl clubs will now punish the Victorian system as a whole, how would past Victorian champions who are now playing in the lower divisions like Port Melbourne, Bulleen etc feel about this? knowing their clubs will never be able to compete at the highest level of Victorian football again, this little stunt by the ffv is threatening to wipe out a whole lot of history....history that goes beyond ex nsl clubs, i've got so many great memories of the vpl even when South was playing in the nsl, seeing the demise of nsl was a hard pill to swallow, but to see our highest tier in the state go by the way side will just about kill my interest for good, its a real shame because the vpl was a great competition back in the nsl days, it was even greater when the ex nsl clubs joined it 5 years ago (record crowds) and it still would have been great now if those selfish morons at the ffv didnt try and sabotage it.

What's your definition of 'ethnically Australian', please?

I am curious to know where the money will come from to fund these new 'franchise' sides.

At the moment, the funding is 'bottom up' - the clubs fund the FFV. They get nothing back from the FFV.

If this happens, I would be surprised if we didn't see all of the older clubs resign en masse and form their own competition.

Meanwhile, to all those saying they don't feel able to follow their local state league side because of ethnic issues... Really? Have you ever actually gone along - or are you just assuming that you will be lynched for being too white?

Fella, with an attitude like your's and your habit of shite stirring based on stirring ethnic tensions, you need a damn good hiding and sent back home to mummies tit. By fucking christ, I'm betting if you did cop a hiding for stirring, you'd scream blue bloody murder and add it to your list of reasons to hate ethnics.

Honestly, even as a 6th generation aussie of Brit and German heritage, I'd not piss on you or anyone else with that attitude, if on fire, but by christ, i'd conduct the hiding in a flash.

Great idea. Wish it could happen here. I could support a club for Fairfield as a whole, and not feel excluded because I'm ethnically Australian (even though I've lived in Fairfield my entire life).

If I want to turn it into a go at the aleague I'll scream it in your face and then scream it again and again. Fella, read what I write and nothing fucking more, because there isn't any. Understand?

I don't need an excuse to abhor bigotry and the way of the world means many don't need an excuse to ignore it.

I dont think these changes will have any benifit. The fact is that making a state league relevant to the broader community is hard in any sport.

The current structure is fine for the VPL, as it atleast has history and relevance to its communities. A clean slate, with teams that will have no meaning to anyone, in a secondary competition will struggle.

When it comes to the highest tier though nationally, it must be broadbased teams to help build an inclusive environment. Without that we will just be a target for media and competitors to rip us apart, as it will just play into every steriotype that they already think about us.

Edited by heart_fan: 21/11/2010 06:16:43 PM

You guys have a go at the FFV, but who makes up the FFV? Are they people who were around pre-Crawford reforms?

And just to say, I doubt southmelb that your club will be in trouble, nor too Melbourne Knights or other higher profile Victorian league clubs. You will always have the support of your community base, as too that built on the the more positive side of your clubs' reputations. I mean many football fans around Australia have heard of your clubs thanks to the NSL days, let alone within Melbourne, so I'd hardly think you two would 'die.'



Oh well I don't disagree with the targeting of ethnic elements (to typically use 'fear' to sell) and indeed, it was never fair when the media did that. But I just recall time and time again, the only time the mainstream news media were ever interested in the NSL, was when there was conflict or trouble.

BTW I can understand the context behind the trouble, ESPECIALLY WHEN the conflicts in the old Yugoslavia were still ongoing through the 90s, including the Croatian War of Independence which only saw the Croatian National Football team formed/official recognised in '94, to then impress at Euro '96 and then make their famous run at the '98 World Cup ofcourse.

If you are trying to turn this into a go at the A-League, then that is a whole 'nother, well run, tangent. And ofcourse yes, if people are still going to insist on being unfavourable to the code and the influence of migrants on it, then they will never be favourable. But that hardly accounts for the majority ofcourse and tying in, yes the tabloid media's views hardly reflect the interests of the majority, though with poor trends in the wider media these days, that can be hard to tell.

Edited by gloryPerth: 21/11/2010 06:11:37 PM

And why do the media not jump on it? Well, ask the tabloid television, like ACA or TT, what has the biggest ratings and sells the most advertising?

Ask the tabloid newspapers if some biff at anglo aussie clubs, regardless of the sports, sells newspapers and will the same biff at a perceived ethnic club, be it Marconi in soccer or the Bulldogs in NRL be pushed by the paper from a very different angle and therefore sell more?

The tabloid media and to a less extent, most of Australia's media, play on an underlying bigoted sentiment that exists in Australia and rears it's ugly head if and when given a vehicle to do so. The fault of both the media and the target bigots.

Now, other than bleaching olive, brown and black skin nice and white, ( I don't know how to achieve that) change non British sounding names by deed poll and never, ever, speak in public unless you have a nasally, slow moving accent overflowing with true blue slang, I don't know what the hell 'ethnic' people can do to prevent uneducated, classless bigots from being what they are.

Do we solve bigotry by simplistically removing the target of the bigotry so we can say it doesn't exist any more or do we tell the bigots to get the hell over their irrational complex and not make policy according to their wishes?

Joffa this isn't the second tier the FFV is talking about this is the third tier, the current VPL would be disbanded and you would effectively have zone leagues (much like AFL's or crickets district leagues)SMFC playing in the Central Zone.

What others don't understand under this plan,is a club like SMFC would be asked to invest in "Central City" (the zone representative club)if it and other clubs did not invest then revenue would be sought elsewhere.
Private investment may be sought, but seriously who is going to invest in a zone club where you don't "own the players" and the FFV expects an annual licence fee of $150K.

Thats why I,m saying if the FFV is pig headed enough to push this through then they will have to self finance the teams. The FFV will have no otion but to levy Clubs and players to finance it.

Which leads me to my comment that grass roots will be expected to pay for it.

You will all get a better understanding from this;
http://www.awfa.asn.au/site/images/stories/pdfs/080523%20-%20summer%20league%20-%20explanatory%20memo%20-%20final.pdf

Edited by Arthur: 21/11/2010 05:24:09 PM

Rather than it being about the State League teams playing in the FFA Cup competition...wouldn't it make more since that this is about a second tier comptition and having that comprise regionally broadbased teams?

Well maybe I did jump to interpret it that way (And you are somewhat right, yes, some Victory fans have done so too - but the media don't jump on it, isolate it, like the past - though don't mean to go on that tangent), but really, as I described above, these moves could well relate to the FFA Cup and wider goings on, and maybe, just maybe, as part of the reforms they are not too keen on seeing, say, a Knights or South Melbourne facing the A-League clubs especially Victory? Though IF that is the sole motivator, then this is a mighty step to take JUST for that. I'm guessing they were planning to do this for a while obviously.

Absolute bloody rubbish, Glory. A phrase that means they will be survive long after generic clubs have not. And for God's sake leave flares out of it. I've seen more in the last 6 years, and on television at that, than a few decades of attending nsl matches. And may I say, mainly by the fans of the other, non ethnic, generic, private Victorian club, Victory.

Stop the ridiculous and intentional fearmongering that only looks at home on Pauline Hanson and her uneducated, 'white or wrong" ilk.

I know plenty of Victory fans who are also fans of VPL clubs, nothing new here. But one shouldn't be surprised that (die hard) fans of former NSL clubs haven't jumped on board Victory or Heart, after the shafting they got at the commencement of the new league.

Good point. And where is the money going to come from? Existing VPL clubs have ties to their local business community that these proposed new clubs will struggle to get. And how much of a joke it will be that the current clubs will have infrastructure of a level well above that of these new plastic clubs.

FFV is an abomination. Fuck them off.

I really don't know what to make of this, except yeah maybe it ties with a wider goings on and indeed with the FFA Cup, it may actually make ALOT MORE sense IF you end up having some new Melbourne state league team facing an AU, Jets or whoever in a Cup tie, as opposed to Knights or whichever other club's 'fans' with flares and trouble, which leads to the dredging up of the bad old days of negative publicity and potentially damaging the more 'accessible' mainstream reputation this league has tried to build since the reforms.

Though yeah, on flip side, a good part of me thinks it WOULD be VERY NICE if the old NSL clubs COULD have that chance to play in the FFA Cup and so have the chance to face the A-League sides, including Victory and Sydney FC. That would be quite special, IF there was no off field trouble or whatever. A potential special occasion.

But on the latter, then again, I kind of think in my kind of 'new convert' kind of way, that why can't the Knights, South Melbourne fans and co, be ALSO Victory or Heart fans - why can't they be both? (So rendering a literal rivalry kind of non existent) But then a few will probably tell me that's a foolish proposition and that you are either one of the other, but in saying that, a few of those lot probably also proudly follow Barcelona, Arsenal or whoever, on the side, but that's ok, because they're a European club (Queue, Euro snobbery).



What an odd comment, turn of phrase to use especially one that evokes a more conflict driven nature the very thing the old NSL clubs should be trying to leave behind them (Ala flares, fights and ethnic conflicts on the news).

And what grounds will these new private clubs use? Are the ffv going to legislate the state leagues clubs must forfeit their community grounds and assets to a private owner?

They can't be serious with this, can they? Brand spanking new, assembly line, private, amateur clubs, straight off Big W's generic replacements shelf and replacing all existing state league clubs?

Honestly, what's the motive? Total removal of all participation in Vic. football by anyone that meets the wrong ethnic heritage requirements? Total privatisation of the sport from the grass roots level, up? What's the motive?

Why do you blokes put up with what will obviously cause the slow death of your clubs, and not break away? Our laws allow the freedom to do so and ffv, ffa and fifa could fart in the wind. Their approval isn't needed.

I can imagine the uproar if this was the attempted against the sydney state leagues clubs.

The proposed Zone competition of the FFV will only be able to be financed one way and will be by increasing player registrations, team registration and affiliation fees.

A form of taxation without representation, and yet again the grassroots pays.

:lol: nobody is gonna go to games, nobody will invest in it either, yeh the ffv will promote it but nobody will care, especially in summer when the A league is already on!

i can just imagine everyone ditching a Victory game to go watch the big clash between the Northern All Stars v Central City Slickers:oops:

its gonna pain me to see my state be the laughing stock of football in this country, but in a way i'll kinda have to enjoy it as well as the ffv will take 1 massive hit.

If this goes through the current vpl will become the states 2nd tier, so the best state league players will obviously play in the new comp, the standard of the vpl will drop off to about state league 1 level, state 1 to state 2 etc, for the first time ever promotion to the states top flight wont be achievable.

I think our clubs are in trouble to be honest, the only thing is i cant see our clubs giving venues to these new franchisers to play at, one way or another football in this state looks like it will be dead within 3 years one way or another, incredible when you think that the vpl 5 years ago was attracting bigger crowds than the vfl..now its being disbanded!