Better than our 2014 squad i'd even say better then our 2015 Asian cup squad 

but the difference is Asia is f****n shit at football and winning the Asian cup is easier then making it out of most WC groups.....

A lot of the boys had had a rapid decline in form over the 6 months before that cup was a real shame as the squad was just as good as the 06 one. Still think had harry not been carded against Ghana we would have made it to the 2nd rd

.. and some here thought this squad was comparable with 2010 lol light years behind 2010

Yes but Mooy will improve and get to that level over time.

All 3 big 5 players will still be in their prime next world cup so injuries permitting we can only get better

contrast of McKay vs Mooy ... so much better

Might as well split Germany back into individual Bundesländer, let alone East and West, considering their depth. Nordrhein-Westphalen could win it on their own. 


German State of Origin would be wicked whilst i'm thinking of it.

Mooy will only be 31 in 2022, bit harsh to leave him out. He'll hopefully still be in the EPL in the prior season.

Germany announce their squad. They dropped Gotze, Gnabry, Ulreich, Emre Can, Wagner. So, basically a bunch of extras who could probably win the world cup haha.

Not sure about Australia, but England just announce their squad, Id say the worst in the last few tournaments

Mooy and Ryan wouldn't look out of place at mid table clubs, we're not talking about a couple of struglers here 

No way. This is miles ahead of 2014. Mooy, Sainsbury, Luongo, Irvine, Kruse, Behich and Rogic added since then. Only really lost Spira, Bresc and both franjic and Mckay were both decent back then. Since then also Leckie and ryan have improved. 

yawn

Whenever the 2014 squad is assessed, it needs to be remembered that the following hands down starters were injured

Kruse
Rogic
Sainsbury
Williams

There were also injuries to Curtis Good and Luke DeVere. Something tells me there was another CB I can’t remember too. Even though Wilkinson played very well, he was about 5th choice CB going in.

only 2 petrol tanks

Wrong forum

would be nice to see stuff positive stuff around the Socceroos for once. 

mmm, I don't see how they are comparable, I know you are all for being positive with our new era etc and I share your optimism, but I feel you are looking far too favourably on our 2018 side and down playing 2010. 

Our best players in 2018 play for EPL sides fighting to stay up and not be relegated + mid table Bundesliga. Or in leagues where generally the sides they play for are not powerhouses of those leagues.  Our best players in 2010 played for teams fighting for Europa League spots in the EPL, Serie A, and playing for sides in the top half of the table in their respective leagues and playing European football

We had 8 players in Europe in 2010 (2 or 3 in 2018), Schwarzer made the Europa League final, Cahill made the R32 of Europa league and finished 8th, Palermo finished 5th just missing out on a UCL spot, Emerton finished in the top half of the EPL table, Kewell and Neill played in Europe knocked out by Eventual winners Athletico Madrid, Wilkshire played European football with Dynamo, Holman was playing for one of the top sides in the Dutch league and played European football, Chipperfield played for the best side in Switzerland and played Europa League. 
Outside of that we had Grella, Garcia making 10 starts in the EPL. 

Whereas now we had what 2 or 3 players play in Europe? Those that play in big leagues played for sides who's main goal was to stay up  (Brighton, Huddersfield). Those that do actually play for a top side in a respective league will lose out a spot to Ryan (Jones, Vuck), the rest are at mid table sides at mid tier leagues (Minus Rogic, but is the SPL even mid tier, anyhow he played in Europe which was good). The rest of the squad is made up of players in teams playing second fiddle in the second tier or players in the second divisions of England and Germany. Granted 

Anyway, I guess we can agree to disagree, just don't see how they are comparable. I would expect our 2022 side to be at least even with 2010.

I think its a big call to rate this squad without a ball kicked in the Grp stage yet, not long to go lets wait and see eh.

2010 was the third best squad we have ever had after 2006, 1997/1998

No squad/player quality.

No the 2014 squad is the worst in 25 years. This is them with a little more experience(better).

Our peak was 1997-  2010

it is a slow back four you couldn't play with a high line

I remember when pim tried a high line against germany with snail paced defenders. Probably going for the "its the last thing they'd expect" strategy :D

grazorblade

I'll try to respond to the rest of your post tomorrow. But just on the 1st XI vs 2nd XI thing before I hit the hay...

I understand what you and melbourne_terrace were driving at. But it does say one or two things about what BVM is working with. When there's depth, you can more or less, say who makes up the 1st XI and who makes up the 2nd XI without too much difficulty. Imo, the fact that we can't do that at all really highlights how much of a jigsaw puzzle our squad is.

Clearly, Mooy and Rogic are both among Australia's best XI and, theoretically, can be in the same starting line-up. In practice, however, one negates the other's effectiveness (almost always) and they're both to slow to be playing in central midfield together.

Leckie is a very industrious footballer who can play well against some of the world's best. But he often has the most awful first touch.

Similarly, our best finisher is the bloke who can only play for fifteen minutes.

And Aus' most gifted proponent of one-on-one at speed is a youngster with very little experience and who could do with a fair bit of defensive work.

All teams have problems like this. It's rare that everybody can do everything perfectly. Everybody has their strengths and weaknesses. The problem, for Australia, is that it's so extreme. So, the starting line-up should very quite a bit depending on who they're up against and what they're trying to do.

I was thinking more in terms of 1st 11 v 2nd 11 in training and a measure of depth which I think the guy I was replying to was going for

Defence is going to be interesting. In the past we haven't had the side to absorb a lot of pressure but maybe a back 7 of
----------------------ryan ---------------------
-karacic----sains------jedi------behich---
---------------mooy-----luongo---------------

might finally be good enough. Mooy had a huge problem defending against cutbacks and his speed off the mark. But he really showed against chelsea, man city and arsenal he can be part of a strong defensive unit while being the main outlet in transition. Jedi is finally got a string of games together at cb and has put in some classy performances though he gives us 1 less avenue to play out through. Ryan has really improved his keeping when a team is under the pump. Luongo generated 6 turnovers a game and provides speed over 5 metres that mooy lacks. The big unknown is rb. If he turns out to be good then we might have a chance defending deep.

Regardless though few teams in the world can just rely on a good defensive block to keep out france for 90 minutes. Even more important are the following 

1. bpo-bp transition if france has to worry about the counter attack they are probably committing less players forward when we are defending deep and having more space between the lines. Having a strong counter attack is not just good for offence but is a cornerstone of effective defence
2. holding possesion. If we have the ball they can't score and our defence can turn off the need to concentrate so intensely which mentally wears you out. Also you lose more energy in defence than offence. If we can get 45% possession or higher it becomes much harder to score against us
3. pressing from the front. Kruse and leckie are the best at this. It also means they have to transition slower and wears out their players because more players have to drop back. 

The tricky part is consideration 1 means playing rogic or arzani as one of your front four but not sure either are good at 3. So some decisions there

Inexperience and a lack of mobility stand out for me and that back four would give me if we lost the ball in midfield. 

 Milligan and Irvine would have to spend the whole game plugging holes in front of the defence. attacking midfield trio would have to drop back so far to link play that we'd constantly be stuck in our own half.

Holger certainly deserves some blame for not giving experience to young players so that we didn't have a low quality young and inexperienced squad 

Also blame goes to nsl shutting down for a year creating a missing generation.

My egyptian friend said the egyptian league apparently shut down for a year and their national team apparently followed a u shaped curve where they also bottomed out for a year. (Can anyone confirm). I guess they now have salah so hopefully thats a sign for us there is light at the end of the tunnel

The ffa have had a lot of problems but they have also had some achievements. Having the a league go mainstream with consistent >10k crowd averages, organizing the npl to condense the talent and bringing in a more technical focus to youth development aren't anything to be sneezed out. If we get a second division and can have a proper season length things could improve pretty rapidly again

Yep. But little do with the actual leagues they're playing in. More to do with strengths and weaknesses in positions.

Frankly, I don't think it's going be along the lines of First XI and Second XI. There will surely be different objectives for the different games. So horses for courses.

I can't quote BVM on this word for word. But I heard him say something along the lines of- you play a side like France, you lose nine times out of ten. My job is to make it so that we are in a position to lose maybe six times out of ten.

Playing France will be like trying to see off the new ball in cricket. You don't go chasing it. You know exactly where your off stump is and you have to be very judicious about what you play at and what you leave. So that means it's going to be about having a very robust defensive effort from all XI and probably channeling the attacks through the counter. If Mooy and Rogic both start against the French, I will throw something at the wall. BVM is pragamtic and listens to his staff. He'll surely know of the sheer folly of starting both of them together in central midfield.

There need to be completely different tactical objectives against the Danes and Peruvians. We need more impetus. And that's where Rogic and Arzani might feature a bit more.

2014 was a bottoming out (and no it wasn't Holgers fault) It was the FFAs failure to develop a youth development strategy from the mid 2000s

Ever since then its been a steady ascent and hopefully it continues to improve with clubs and federations putting more and more into youth development