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Waz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW....both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed.Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... That’s one of the most insane comments I’ve read.
How else can you determine how good/bad a player is if it’s not through objective measurement?
The High Performance Department of a football team, including the ones used for Socceroos and Matilda’s, literally operates off statistics, statistics and more statistics.
The FIFA Coaching licensing system (A -> Pro) even places a heavy emphasis on the correct use of statistics
So in making that statement you’re basically saying the entire football world has got it wrong. Which is a remarkable statement to make. If Aldred makes the most tackles/blocks in the A-league, does that make him the best defender in the league? What stats do you use to determine how good ones positioning is? Aldreds positioning is woeful, but because he he makes the most tackles his the best defender? Nah You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing against the entire professional football world.
Absolutely insane comment.
And it’s not just football, it’s pretty much every code. You must have seen the film ‘Moneyballs’: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball_(film)which gives a great example from baseball where objective statistical analysis, combined with coaches knowledge/experience replaced good old fashioned “gut feel”.
In football you cannot solely apply statistics to a player to determine how good/bad a player is. Baseball is literally a sport where stats matter most. If your batting average is .300, your a great player, if its .130 your garbage. Most home runs = best player, most goals in football does not equal best player. Matt Priddis won the Brownlow in ALF few years back, because he had most disposals in the season...yet he wasn't even the best player on his team. As I said you’re arguing against every High Performance football Dept from Anfield to Sydney.
It’s insane.
All because O’Shea has some decent statistics too 😂
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Mello-D
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 705,
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+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW.... both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed. Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... On the above highlighted points: - It can be a luxury, depending on the circumstances, but it can also be a curse. Clubs have very limited money to bring players in, so if you are bringing in almost an entirely new squad, you have to be very lucky to have all of them be "successful" signings. The biggest luxury would be to have an existing, high-performing squad, with the space to add some more players who will suit your system.
- Basically no other team is good enough to challenge Sydney FC this season, at least consistently. They are simply too good. I agree that Roar aren't good enough to challenge, but neither are other teams.
- Different circumstances at WSW and Victory. Both clubs would be investing more money into their squads than Roar are. Babbel was in his second season, and Kurz had the luxury of having his time at Adelaide and a pretty good knowledge of the league and what is needed to compete. Fowler is in his first season, in his first proper head coach role, so of course he is going to be given more leniency. If we are in the same position next season, then the conversation will be more relevant.
Regarding judging players based on stats, it needs to be said that it can be useful, but it isn't the whole story. Stats should neither be completely disregarded or solely relied upon when judging a player's performance. Agree with most your points...but 1. Clubs don't have limited money as there is a salary cap and must spend above the minimum cap year after year, apart from loyalty bonuses and marques all teams are on the same level. 2. Glory is good enough. 3. Robbie has said they have utilised the entire cap. (Refer to his comments earlier in the season when he said he doesn't understand how other clubs do it) 1. A salary cap means clubs have limited money. Obviously there are marquees and other exemptions, but in the end, no club has limitless money to bring. If there was limitless funds, you could go out and sign players with much better CVs who you'd assume would pose less of a risk of flopping. Given there is only a certain amount of money to be spent across the majority of the squad, the risk of the players you bring in not being up to standard is higher. 2. Debatable. I agree on paper that they should be, given the squad, and obviously they are improving on their performances from earlier in the season, but still, I am not sure if they could consistently match it with Sydney. Just my opinion. 3. That is fine, but not my point. I am talking about the additional $1,000,000+ that Victory and WSW would be contributing on top of the cap, which Roar aren't. My main point was that Fowler isn't under as much pressure because the club haven't invested as much money in the player squad (therefore shouldn't expect the same results), and Robbie is much newer on the scene than those two, so would likely be given more time.
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thekingmb
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW....both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed.Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... That’s one of the most insane comments I’ve read.
How else can you determine how good/bad a player is if it’s not through objective measurement?
The High Performance Department of a football team, including the ones used for Socceroos and Matilda’s, literally operates off statistics, statistics and more statistics.
The FIFA Coaching licensing system (A -> Pro) even places a heavy emphasis on the correct use of statistics
So in making that statement you’re basically saying the entire football world has got it wrong. Which is a remarkable statement to make. If Aldred makes the most tackles/blocks in the A-league, does that make him the best defender in the league? What stats do you use to determine how good ones positioning is? Aldreds positioning is woeful, but because he he makes the most tackles his the best defender? Nah You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing against the entire professional football world.
Absolutely insane comment.
And it’s not just football, it’s pretty much every code. You must have seen the film ‘Moneyballs’: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball_(film)which gives a great example from baseball where objective statistical analysis, combined with coaches knowledge/experience replaced good old fashioned “gut feel”.
In football you cannot solely apply statistics to a player to determine how good/bad a player is. Baseball is literally a sport where stats matter most. If your batting average is .300, your a great player, if its .130 your garbage. Most home runs = best player, most goals in football does not equal best player. Matt Priddis won the Brownlow in ALF few years back, because he had most disposals in the season...yet he wasn't even the best player on his team. As I said you’re arguing against every High Performance football Dept from Anfield to Sydney.
It’s insane.
All because O’Shea has some decent statistics too 😂 Compare the chances created Diamanti has to O'Shea. Remember that goal Suncorp where Diamanti whipped in the ripper to Pain for the goal? O'Shea has done nothing half as good. Until I see O'Shea produce magic and on a consistent basis, he is an average a-league player in my opinion.
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Waz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW....both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed.Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... That’s one of the most insane comments I’ve read.
How else can you determine how good/bad a player is if it’s not through objective measurement?
The High Performance Department of a football team, including the ones used for Socceroos and Matilda’s, literally operates off statistics, statistics and more statistics.
The FIFA Coaching licensing system (A -> Pro) even places a heavy emphasis on the correct use of statistics
So in making that statement you’re basically saying the entire football world has got it wrong. Which is a remarkable statement to make. If Aldred makes the most tackles/blocks in the A-league, does that make him the best defender in the league? What stats do you use to determine how good ones positioning is? Aldreds positioning is woeful, but because he he makes the most tackles his the best defender? Nah You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing against the entire professional football world.
Absolutely insane comment.
And it’s not just football, it’s pretty much every code. You must have seen the film ‘Moneyballs’: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball_(film)which gives a great example from baseball where objective statistical analysis, combined with coaches knowledge/experience replaced good old fashioned “gut feel”.
In football you cannot solely apply statistics to a player to determine how good/bad a player is. Baseball is literally a sport where stats matter most. If your batting average is .300, your a great player, if its .130 your garbage. Most home runs = best player, most goals in football does not equal best player. Matt Priddis won the Brownlow in ALF few years back, because he had most disposals in the season...yet he wasn't even the best player on his team. As I said you’re arguing against every High Performance football Dept from Anfield to Sydney.
It’s insane.
All because O’Shea has some decent statistics too 😂 Compare the chances created Diamanti has to O'Shea. Remember that goal Suncorp where Diamanti whipped in the ripper to Pain for the goal? O'Shea has done nothing half as good. Until I see O'Shea produce magic and on a consistent basis, he is an average a-league player in my opinion. I’ve got nothing for ya, you want to dismiss statistics contrary to what football as a code does.
If you want me to agree Diamanti is a better player than O’Shea then I agree, he is.
That does not diminish what O’Shea is achieving this season though.
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thekingmb
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW.... both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed. Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... On the above highlighted points: - It can be a luxury, depending on the circumstances, but it can also be a curse. Clubs have very limited money to bring players in, so if you are bringing in almost an entirely new squad, you have to be very lucky to have all of them be "successful" signings. The biggest luxury would be to have an existing, high-performing squad, with the space to add some more players who will suit your system.
- Basically no other team is good enough to challenge Sydney FC this season, at least consistently. They are simply too good. I agree that Roar aren't good enough to challenge, but neither are other teams.
- Different circumstances at WSW and Victory. Both clubs would be investing more money into their squads than Roar are. Babbel was in his second season, and Kurz had the luxury of having his time at Adelaide and a pretty good knowledge of the league and what is needed to compete. Fowler is in his first season, in his first proper head coach role, so of course he is going to be given more leniency. If we are in the same position next season, then the conversation will be more relevant.
Regarding judging players based on stats, it needs to be said that it can be useful, but it isn't the whole story. Stats should neither be completely disregarded or solely relied upon when judging a player's performance. Agree with most your points...but 1. Clubs don't have limited money as there is a salary cap and must spend above the minimum cap year after year, apart from loyalty bonuses and marques all teams are on the same level. 2. Glory is good enough. 3. Robbie has said they have utilised the entire cap. (Refer to his comments earlier in the season when he said he doesn't understand how other clubs do it) 1. A salary cap means clubs have limited money. Obviously there are marquees and other exemptions, but in the end, no club has limitless money to bring. If there was limitless funds, you could go out and sign players with much better CVs who you'd assume would pose less of a risk of flopping. Given there is only a certain amount of money to be spent across the majority of the squad, the risk of the players you bring in not being up to standard is higher. 2. Debatable. I agree on paper that they should be, given the squad, and obviously they are improving on their performances from earlier in the season, but still, I am not sure if they could consistently match it with Sydney. Just my opinion. 3. That is fine, but not my point. I am talking about the additional $1,000,000+ that Victory and WSW would be contributing on top of the cap, which Roar aren't. My main point was that Fowler isn't under as much pressure because the club haven't invested as much money in the player squad (therefore shouldn't expect the same results), and Robbie is much newer on the scene than those two, so would likely be given more time. 1. Agree, club don't have limitless funds, means they on a level playing field, plus or minus a few dollars. 2. Slow start was due to fitness as everyone could see, winning 6 straight games is on par with what Sydney has done. 3. Agree partially, but Adelaide and Pheonix are in the same boat and are doing better.
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jeggohouse
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 831,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW....both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed.Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... That’s one of the most insane comments I’ve read.
How else can you determine how good/bad a player is if it’s not through objective measurement?
The High Performance Department of a football team, including the ones used for Socceroos and Matilda’s, literally operates off statistics, statistics and more statistics.
The FIFA Coaching licensing system (A -> Pro) even places a heavy emphasis on the correct use of statistics
So in making that statement you’re basically saying the entire football world has got it wrong. Which is a remarkable statement to make. If Aldred makes the most tackles/blocks in the A-league, does that make him the best defender in the league? What stats do you use to determine how good ones positioning is? Aldreds positioning is woeful, but because he he makes the most tackles his the best defender? Nah You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing against the entire professional football world.
Absolutely insane comment.
And it’s not just football, it’s pretty much every code. You must have seen the film ‘Moneyballs’: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball_(film)which gives a great example from baseball where objective statistical analysis, combined with coaches knowledge/experience replaced good old fashioned “gut feel”.
In football you cannot solely apply statistics to a player to determine how good/bad a player is. Baseball is literally a sport where stats matter most. If your batting average is .300, your a great player, if its .130 your garbage. Most home runs = best player, most goals in football does not equal best player. Matt Priddis won the Brownlow in ALF few years back, because he had most disposals in the season...yet he wasn't even the best player on his team. As I said you’re arguing against every High Performance football Dept from Anfield to Sydney.
It’s insane.
All because O’Shea has some decent statistics too 😂 Compare the chances created Diamanti has to O'Shea. Remember that goal Suncorp where Diamanti whipped in the ripper to Pain for the goal? O'Shea has done nothing half as good. Until I see O'Shea produce magic and on a consistent basis, he is an average a-league player in my opinion. O'Shea is probably a little bit above average, but I agree that he's definitely not on the same level as Diamanti, Ninko, Castro, ABM etc.
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Waz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW....both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed.Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... That’s one of the most insane comments I’ve read.
How else can you determine how good/bad a player is if it’s not through objective measurement?
The High Performance Department of a football team, including the ones used for Socceroos and Matilda’s, literally operates off statistics, statistics and more statistics.
The FIFA Coaching licensing system (A -> Pro) even places a heavy emphasis on the correct use of statistics
So in making that statement you’re basically saying the entire football world has got it wrong. Which is a remarkable statement to make. If Aldred makes the most tackles/blocks in the A-league, does that make him the best defender in the league? What stats do you use to determine how good ones positioning is? Aldreds positioning is woeful, but because he he makes the most tackles his the best defender? Nah You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing against the entire professional football world.
Absolutely insane comment.
And it’s not just football, it’s pretty much every code. You must have seen the film ‘Moneyballs’: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball_(film)which gives a great example from baseball where objective statistical analysis, combined with coaches knowledge/experience replaced good old fashioned “gut feel”.
In football you cannot solely apply statistics to a player to determine how good/bad a player is. Baseball is literally a sport where stats matter most. If your batting average is .300, your a great player, if its .130 your garbage. Most home runs = best player, most goals in football does not equal best player. Matt Priddis won the Brownlow in ALF few years back, because he had most disposals in the season...yet he wasn't even the best player on his team. As I said you’re arguing against every High Performance football Dept from Anfield to Sydney.
It’s insane.
All because O’Shea has some decent statistics too 😂 Compare the chances created Diamanti has to O'Shea. Remember that goal Suncorp where Diamanti whipped in the ripper to Pain for the goal? O'Shea has done nothing half as good. Until I see O'Shea produce magic and on a consistent basis, he is an average a-league player in my opinion. O'Shea is probably a little bit above average, but I agree that he's definitely not on the same level as Diamanti, Ninko, Castro, ABM etc. Has anyone been saying he is?
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jeggohouse
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 831,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW....both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed.Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... That’s one of the most insane comments I’ve read.
How else can you determine how good/bad a player is if it’s not through objective measurement?
The High Performance Department of a football team, including the ones used for Socceroos and Matilda’s, literally operates off statistics, statistics and more statistics.
The FIFA Coaching licensing system (A -> Pro) even places a heavy emphasis on the correct use of statistics
So in making that statement you’re basically saying the entire football world has got it wrong. Which is a remarkable statement to make. If Aldred makes the most tackles/blocks in the A-league, does that make him the best defender in the league? What stats do you use to determine how good ones positioning is? Aldreds positioning is woeful, but because he he makes the most tackles his the best defender? Nah You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing against the entire professional football world.
Absolutely insane comment.
And it’s not just football, it’s pretty much every code. You must have seen the film ‘Moneyballs’: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball_(film)which gives a great example from baseball where objective statistical analysis, combined with coaches knowledge/experience replaced good old fashioned “gut feel”.
In football you cannot solely apply statistics to a player to determine how good/bad a player is. Baseball is literally a sport where stats matter most. If your batting average is .300, your a great player, if its .130 your garbage. Most home runs = best player, most goals in football does not equal best player. Matt Priddis won the Brownlow in ALF few years back, because he had most disposals in the season...yet he wasn't even the best player on his team. As I said you’re arguing against every High Performance football Dept from Anfield to Sydney.
It’s insane.
All because O’Shea has some decent statistics too 😂 Compare the chances created Diamanti has to O'Shea. Remember that goal Suncorp where Diamanti whipped in the ripper to Pain for the goal? O'Shea has done nothing half as good. Until I see O'Shea produce magic and on a consistent basis, he is an average a-league player in my opinion. O'Shea is probably a little bit above average, but I agree that he's definitely not on the same level as Diamanti, Ninko, Castro, ABM etc. Has anyone been saying he is?
You yourself actually said "he's the most dangerous attacking player in the league" not that long ago.
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thekingmb
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW....both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed.Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... That’s one of the most insane comments I’ve read.
How else can you determine how good/bad a player is if it’s not through objective measurement?
The High Performance Department of a football team, including the ones used for Socceroos and Matilda’s, literally operates off statistics, statistics and more statistics.
The FIFA Coaching licensing system (A -> Pro) even places a heavy emphasis on the correct use of statistics
So in making that statement you’re basically saying the entire football world has got it wrong. Which is a remarkable statement to make. If Aldred makes the most tackles/blocks in the A-league, does that make him the best defender in the league? What stats do you use to determine how good ones positioning is? Aldreds positioning is woeful, but because he he makes the most tackles his the best defender? Nah You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing against the entire professional football world.
Absolutely insane comment.
And it’s not just football, it’s pretty much every code. You must have seen the film ‘Moneyballs’: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball_(film)which gives a great example from baseball where objective statistical analysis, combined with coaches knowledge/experience replaced good old fashioned “gut feel”.
In football you cannot solely apply statistics to a player to determine how good/bad a player is. Baseball is literally a sport where stats matter most. If your batting average is .300, your a great player, if its .130 your garbage. Most home runs = best player, most goals in football does not equal best player. Matt Priddis won the Brownlow in ALF few years back, because he had most disposals in the season...yet he wasn't even the best player on his team. As I said you’re arguing against every High Performance football Dept from Anfield to Sydney.
It’s insane.
All because O’Shea has some decent statistics too 😂 Compare the chances created Diamanti has to O'Shea. Remember that goal Suncorp where Diamanti whipped in the ripper to Pain for the goal? O'Shea has done nothing half as good. Until I see O'Shea produce magic and on a consistent basis, he is an average a-league player in my opinion. I’ve got nothing for ya, you want to dismiss statistics contrary to what football as a code does.
If you want me to agree Diamanti is a better player than O’Shea then I agree, he is.
That does not diminish what O’Shea is achieving this season though. Final question, do you think O'Shea would make the starting line up in any of the current top 4 teams? I would say no therefore, Brisbane should release him and find better.
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thekingmb
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW....both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed.Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... That’s one of the most insane comments I’ve read.
How else can you determine how good/bad a player is if it’s not through objective measurement?
The High Performance Department of a football team, including the ones used for Socceroos and Matilda’s, literally operates off statistics, statistics and more statistics.
The FIFA Coaching licensing system (A -> Pro) even places a heavy emphasis on the correct use of statistics
So in making that statement you’re basically saying the entire football world has got it wrong. Which is a remarkable statement to make. If Aldred makes the most tackles/blocks in the A-league, does that make him the best defender in the league? What stats do you use to determine how good ones positioning is? Aldreds positioning is woeful, but because he he makes the most tackles his the best defender? Nah You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing against the entire professional football world.
Absolutely insane comment.
And it’s not just football, it’s pretty much every code. You must have seen the film ‘Moneyballs’: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball_(film)which gives a great example from baseball where objective statistical analysis, combined with coaches knowledge/experience replaced good old fashioned “gut feel”.
In football you cannot solely apply statistics to a player to determine how good/bad a player is. Baseball is literally a sport where stats matter most. If your batting average is .300, your a great player, if its .130 your garbage. Most home runs = best player, most goals in football does not equal best player. Matt Priddis won the Brownlow in ALF few years back, because he had most disposals in the season...yet he wasn't even the best player on his team. As I said you’re arguing against every High Performance football Dept from Anfield to Sydney.
It’s insane.
All because O’Shea has some decent statistics too 😂 Compare the chances created Diamanti has to O'Shea. Remember that goal Suncorp where Diamanti whipped in the ripper to Pain for the goal? O'Shea has done nothing half as good. Until I see O'Shea produce magic and on a consistent basis, he is an average a-league player in my opinion. O'Shea is probably a little bit above average, but I agree that he's definitely not on the same level as Diamanti, Ninko, Castro, ABM etc. Has anyone been saying he is?
I'm pretty sure you said it yourself a few weeks back, could be wrong though.
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Waz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW....both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed.Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... That’s one of the most insane comments I’ve read.
How else can you determine how good/bad a player is if it’s not through objective measurement?
The High Performance Department of a football team, including the ones used for Socceroos and Matilda’s, literally operates off statistics, statistics and more statistics.
The FIFA Coaching licensing system (A -> Pro) even places a heavy emphasis on the correct use of statistics
So in making that statement you’re basically saying the entire football world has got it wrong. Which is a remarkable statement to make. If Aldred makes the most tackles/blocks in the A-league, does that make him the best defender in the league? What stats do you use to determine how good ones positioning is? Aldreds positioning is woeful, but because he he makes the most tackles his the best defender? Nah You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing against the entire professional football world.
Absolutely insane comment.
And it’s not just football, it’s pretty much every code. You must have seen the film ‘Moneyballs’: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball_(film)which gives a great example from baseball where objective statistical analysis, combined with coaches knowledge/experience replaced good old fashioned “gut feel”.
In football you cannot solely apply statistics to a player to determine how good/bad a player is. Baseball is literally a sport where stats matter most. If your batting average is .300, your a great player, if its .130 your garbage. Most home runs = best player, most goals in football does not equal best player. Matt Priddis won the Brownlow in ALF few years back, because he had most disposals in the season...yet he wasn't even the best player on his team. As I said you’re arguing against every High Performance football Dept from Anfield to Sydney.
It’s insane.
All because O’Shea has some decent statistics too 😂 Compare the chances created Diamanti has to O'Shea. Remember that goal Suncorp where Diamanti whipped in the ripper to Pain for the goal? O'Shea has done nothing half as good. Until I see O'Shea produce magic and on a consistent basis, he is an average a-league player in my opinion. O'Shea is probably a little bit above average, but I agree that he's definitely not on the same level as Diamanti, Ninko, Castro, ABM etc. Has anyone been saying he is?
I'm pretty sure you said it yourself a few weeks back, could be wrong though. you’re often wrong soooooo ....?
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thekingmb
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW....both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed.Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... That’s one of the most insane comments I’ve read.
How else can you determine how good/bad a player is if it’s not through objective measurement?
The High Performance Department of a football team, including the ones used for Socceroos and Matilda’s, literally operates off statistics, statistics and more statistics.
The FIFA Coaching licensing system (A -> Pro) even places a heavy emphasis on the correct use of statistics
So in making that statement you’re basically saying the entire football world has got it wrong. Which is a remarkable statement to make. If Aldred makes the most tackles/blocks in the A-league, does that make him the best defender in the league? What stats do you use to determine how good ones positioning is? Aldreds positioning is woeful, but because he he makes the most tackles his the best defender? Nah You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing against the entire professional football world.
Absolutely insane comment.
And it’s not just football, it’s pretty much every code. You must have seen the film ‘Moneyballs’: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball_(film)which gives a great example from baseball where objective statistical analysis, combined with coaches knowledge/experience replaced good old fashioned “gut feel”.
In football you cannot solely apply statistics to a player to determine how good/bad a player is. Baseball is literally a sport where stats matter most. If your batting average is .300, your a great player, if its .130 your garbage. Most home runs = best player, most goals in football does not equal best player. Matt Priddis won the Brownlow in ALF few years back, because he had most disposals in the season...yet he wasn't even the best player on his team. As I said you’re arguing against every High Performance football Dept from Anfield to Sydney.
It’s insane.
All because O’Shea has some decent statistics too 😂 Compare the chances created Diamanti has to O'Shea. Remember that goal Suncorp where Diamanti whipped in the ripper to Pain for the goal? O'Shea has done nothing half as good. Until I see O'Shea produce magic and on a consistent basis, he is an average a-league player in my opinion. O'Shea is probably a little bit above average, but I agree that he's definitely not on the same level as Diamanti, Ninko, Castro, ABM etc. Has anyone been saying he is?
I'm pretty sure you said it yourself a few weeks back, could be wrong though. you’re often wrong soooooo ....? Wrong with what exactly.....all my predictions about the Roar this season have been correct to date? Not my fault they are average.
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aok
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW....both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed.Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... That’s one of the most insane comments I’ve read.
How else can you determine how good/bad a player is if it’s not through objective measurement?
The High Performance Department of a football team, including the ones used for Socceroos and Matilda’s, literally operates off statistics, statistics and more statistics.
The FIFA Coaching licensing system (A -> Pro) even places a heavy emphasis on the correct use of statistics
So in making that statement you’re basically saying the entire football world has got it wrong. Which is a remarkable statement to make. If Aldred makes the most tackles/blocks in the A-league, does that make him the best defender in the league? What stats do you use to determine how good ones positioning is? Aldreds positioning is woeful, but because he he makes the most tackles his the best defender? Nah You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing against the entire professional football world.
Absolutely insane comment.
And it’s not just football, it’s pretty much every code. You must have seen the film ‘Moneyballs’: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball_(film)which gives a great example from baseball where objective statistical analysis, combined with coaches knowledge/experience replaced good old fashioned “gut feel”.
In football you cannot solely apply statistics to a player to determine how good/bad a player is. Baseball is literally a sport where stats matter most. If your batting average is .300, your a great player, if its .130 your garbage. Most home runs = best player, most goals in football does not equal best player. Matt Priddis won the Brownlow in ALF few years back, because he had most disposals in the season...yet he wasn't even the best player on his team. As I said you’re arguing against every High Performance football Dept from Anfield to Sydney.
It’s insane.
All because O’Shea has some decent statistics too 😂 Compare the chances created Diamanti has to O'Shea. Remember that goal Suncorp where Diamanti whipped in the ripper to Pain for the goal? O'Shea has done nothing half as good. Until I see O'Shea produce magic and on a consistent basis, he is an average a-league player in my opinion. O'Shea is probably a little bit above average, but I agree that he's definitely not on the same level as Diamanti, Ninko, Castro, ABM etc. Has anyone been saying he is?
I'm pretty sure you said it yourself a few weeks back, could be wrong though. you’re often wrong soooooo ....? Wrong with what exactly.....all my predictions about the Roar this season have been correct to date? Not my fault they are average. A few posts ago, you called them garbage. They've now progressed to average. At this rate, they'll be table toppers by the end of the day.
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thekingmb
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW....both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed.Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... That’s one of the most insane comments I’ve read.
How else can you determine how good/bad a player is if it’s not through objective measurement?
The High Performance Department of a football team, including the ones used for Socceroos and Matilda’s, literally operates off statistics, statistics and more statistics.
The FIFA Coaching licensing system (A -> Pro) even places a heavy emphasis on the correct use of statistics
So in making that statement you’re basically saying the entire football world has got it wrong. Which is a remarkable statement to make. If Aldred makes the most tackles/blocks in the A-league, does that make him the best defender in the league? What stats do you use to determine how good ones positioning is? Aldreds positioning is woeful, but because he he makes the most tackles his the best defender? Nah You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing against the entire professional football world.
Absolutely insane comment.
And it’s not just football, it’s pretty much every code. You must have seen the film ‘Moneyballs’: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball_(film)which gives a great example from baseball where objective statistical analysis, combined with coaches knowledge/experience replaced good old fashioned “gut feel”.
In football you cannot solely apply statistics to a player to determine how good/bad a player is. Baseball is literally a sport where stats matter most. If your batting average is .300, your a great player, if its .130 your garbage. Most home runs = best player, most goals in football does not equal best player. Matt Priddis won the Brownlow in ALF few years back, because he had most disposals in the season...yet he wasn't even the best player on his team. As I said you’re arguing against every High Performance football Dept from Anfield to Sydney.
It’s insane.
All because O’Shea has some decent statistics too 😂 Compare the chances created Diamanti has to O'Shea. Remember that goal Suncorp where Diamanti whipped in the ripper to Pain for the goal? O'Shea has done nothing half as good. Until I see O'Shea produce magic and on a consistent basis, he is an average a-league player in my opinion. O'Shea is probably a little bit above average, but I agree that he's definitely not on the same level as Diamanti, Ninko, Castro, ABM etc. Has anyone been saying he is?
I'm pretty sure you said it yourself a few weeks back, could be wrong though. you’re often wrong soooooo ....? Wrong with what exactly.....all my predictions about the Roar this season have been correct to date? Not my fault they are average. A few posts ago, you called them garbage. They've now progressed to average. At this rate, they'll be table toppers by the end of the day. Was trying to be polite as some of you don't accept any form of criticism.
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Waz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW....both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed.Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... That’s one of the most insane comments I’ve read.
How else can you determine how good/bad a player is if it’s not through objective measurement?
The High Performance Department of a football team, including the ones used for Socceroos and Matilda’s, literally operates off statistics, statistics and more statistics.
The FIFA Coaching licensing system (A -> Pro) even places a heavy emphasis on the correct use of statistics
So in making that statement you’re basically saying the entire football world has got it wrong. Which is a remarkable statement to make. If Aldred makes the most tackles/blocks in the A-league, does that make him the best defender in the league? What stats do you use to determine how good ones positioning is? Aldreds positioning is woeful, but because he he makes the most tackles his the best defender? Nah You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing against the entire professional football world.
Absolutely insane comment.
And it’s not just football, it’s pretty much every code. You must have seen the film ‘Moneyballs’: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball_(film)which gives a great example from baseball where objective statistical analysis, combined with coaches knowledge/experience replaced good old fashioned “gut feel”.
In football you cannot solely apply statistics to a player to determine how good/bad a player is. Baseball is literally a sport where stats matter most. If your batting average is .300, your a great player, if its .130 your garbage. Most home runs = best player, most goals in football does not equal best player. Matt Priddis won the Brownlow in ALF few years back, because he had most disposals in the season...yet he wasn't even the best player on his team. As I said you’re arguing against every High Performance football Dept from Anfield to Sydney.
It’s insane.
All because O’Shea has some decent statistics too 😂 Compare the chances created Diamanti has to O'Shea. Remember that goal Suncorp where Diamanti whipped in the ripper to Pain for the goal? O'Shea has done nothing half as good. Until I see O'Shea produce magic and on a consistent basis, he is an average a-league player in my opinion. I’ve got nothing for ya, you want to dismiss statistics contrary to what football as a code does.
If you want me to agree Diamanti is a better player than O’Shea then I agree, he is.
That does not diminish what O’Shea is achieving this season though. Final question, do you think O'Shea would make the starting line up in any of the current top 4 teams? I would say no therefore, Brisbane should release him and find better. That’s a flawed starting point though - not every player in a team has to make the starting XI of a top 4 team. It’s the nature of the Cap - even SFC have great players, good players, and average players it’s getting the mix right that defines the championship winning teams.
Roar to my eye don’t have any great players in the squad - that’s the 2-3 signings they need to compete next year.
In terms of O’Shea - he’s creating chances for a front two that’s consisted on ROD, Holloway, Inman, DWH, Mauratovic and even O’Shea himself.
The problem sits in Roars front two. No one has found any form there all season.
So next year I’d keep O’Shea and look to put a quality 9 in place and a quality 6. I’m not sure who should play 10 (DWH, Muratovic or Holloway) but that’s another position I’d be looking at.
But O’Shea right now - if it were me I’d be negotiating a contract extension.
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Waz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW....both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed.Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... That’s one of the most insane comments I’ve read.
How else can you determine how good/bad a player is if it’s not through objective measurement?
The High Performance Department of a football team, including the ones used for Socceroos and Matilda’s, literally operates off statistics, statistics and more statistics.
The FIFA Coaching licensing system (A -> Pro) even places a heavy emphasis on the correct use of statistics
So in making that statement you’re basically saying the entire football world has got it wrong. Which is a remarkable statement to make. If Aldred makes the most tackles/blocks in the A-league, does that make him the best defender in the league? What stats do you use to determine how good ones positioning is? Aldreds positioning is woeful, but because he he makes the most tackles his the best defender? Nah You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing against the entire professional football world.
Absolutely insane comment.
And it’s not just football, it’s pretty much every code. You must have seen the film ‘Moneyballs’: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball_(film)which gives a great example from baseball where objective statistical analysis, combined with coaches knowledge/experience replaced good old fashioned “gut feel”.
In football you cannot solely apply statistics to a player to determine how good/bad a player is. Baseball is literally a sport where stats matter most. If your batting average is .300, your a great player, if its .130 your garbage. Most home runs = best player, most goals in football does not equal best player. Matt Priddis won the Brownlow in ALF few years back, because he had most disposals in the season...yet he wasn't even the best player on his team. As I said you’re arguing against every High Performance football Dept from Anfield to Sydney.
It’s insane.
All because O’Shea has some decent statistics too 😂 Compare the chances created Diamanti has to O'Shea. Remember that goal Suncorp where Diamanti whipped in the ripper to Pain for the goal? O'Shea has done nothing half as good. Until I see O'Shea produce magic and on a consistent basis, he is an average a-league player in my opinion. O'Shea is probably a little bit above average, but I agree that he's definitely not on the same level as Diamanti, Ninko, Castro, ABM etc. Has anyone been saying he is?
I'm pretty sure you said it yourself a few weeks back, could be wrong though. you’re often wrong soooooo ....? Wrong with what exactly.....all my predictions about the Roar this season have been correct to date? Not my fault they are average. A few posts ago, you called them garbage. They've now progressed to average. At this rate, they'll be table toppers by the end of the day. A good Troll will do that sometimes 😁
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Roar in me Blood
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.8K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW....both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed.Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... That’s one of the most insane comments I’ve read.
How else can you determine how good/bad a player is if it’s not through objective measurement?
The High Performance Department of a football team, including the ones used for Socceroos and Matilda’s, literally operates off statistics, statistics and more statistics.
The FIFA Coaching licensing system (A -> Pro) even places a heavy emphasis on the correct use of statistics
So in making that statement you’re basically saying the entire football world has got it wrong. Which is a remarkable statement to make. If Aldred makes the most tackles/blocks in the A-league, does that make him the best defender in the league? What stats do you use to determine how good ones positioning is? Aldreds positioning is woeful, but because he he makes the most tackles his the best defender? Nah You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing against the entire professional football world.
Absolutely insane comment.
And it’s not just football, it’s pretty much every code. You must have seen the film ‘Moneyballs’: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball_(film)which gives a great example from baseball where objective statistical analysis, combined with coaches knowledge/experience replaced good old fashioned “gut feel”.
In football you cannot solely apply statistics to a player to determine how good/bad a player is. Baseball is literally a sport where stats matter most. If your batting average is .300, your a great player, if its .130 your garbage. Most home runs = best player, most goals in football does not equal best player. Matt Priddis won the Brownlow in ALF few years back, because he had most disposals in the season...yet he wasn't even the best player on his team. As I said you’re arguing against every High Performance football Dept from Anfield to Sydney.
It’s insane.
All because O’Shea has some decent statistics too 😂 Compare the chances created Diamanti has to O'Shea. Remember that goal Suncorp where Diamanti whipped in the ripper to Pain for the goal? O'Shea has done nothing half as good. Until I see O'Shea produce magic and on a consistent basis, he is an average a-league player in my opinion. O'Shea is probably a little bit above average, but I agree that he's definitely not on the same level as Diamanti, Ninko, Castro, ABM etc. Has anyone been saying he is?
You yourself actually said "he's the most dangerous attacking player in the league" not that long ago. Didn't he basically say based on goal chances created he was statistically the best attacking player? Different entirely to saying O'Shea is the best attacking player overall and Waz has confirmed he isn't saying that. In general terms anyone who thinks the stats are a minimal or lesser factor in player ratings would surely have no problem agreeing with Waz that statistically speaking O'Shea is at least one of the best this season and yet some posters are simultaneously refuting both the stats and the statement that if the stats are true O'Shea is statistically good. Anyone can agree on elements of an argument and yet completely disagree with the final outcome. That need to refute every part of a statement or opinion, rather than the fact that people simply disagree, is what I think leads to comments about posts just being negative/bitter/hatred or whatever.
When I wear their colours, I am the club.
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thekingmb
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW....both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed.Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... That’s one of the most insane comments I’ve read.
How else can you determine how good/bad a player is if it’s not through objective measurement?
The High Performance Department of a football team, including the ones used for Socceroos and Matilda’s, literally operates off statistics, statistics and more statistics.
The FIFA Coaching licensing system (A -> Pro) even places a heavy emphasis on the correct use of statistics
So in making that statement you’re basically saying the entire football world has got it wrong. Which is a remarkable statement to make. If Aldred makes the most tackles/blocks in the A-league, does that make him the best defender in the league? What stats do you use to determine how good ones positioning is? Aldreds positioning is woeful, but because he he makes the most tackles his the best defender? Nah You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing against the entire professional football world.
Absolutely insane comment.
And it’s not just football, it’s pretty much every code. You must have seen the film ‘Moneyballs’: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball_(film)which gives a great example from baseball where objective statistical analysis, combined with coaches knowledge/experience replaced good old fashioned “gut feel”.
In football you cannot solely apply statistics to a player to determine how good/bad a player is. Baseball is literally a sport where stats matter most. If your batting average is .300, your a great player, if its .130 your garbage. Most home runs = best player, most goals in football does not equal best player. Matt Priddis won the Brownlow in ALF few years back, because he had most disposals in the season...yet he wasn't even the best player on his team. As I said you’re arguing against every High Performance football Dept from Anfield to Sydney.
It’s insane.
All because O’Shea has some decent statistics too 😂 Compare the chances created Diamanti has to O'Shea. Remember that goal Suncorp where Diamanti whipped in the ripper to Pain for the goal? O'Shea has done nothing half as good. Until I see O'Shea produce magic and on a consistent basis, he is an average a-league player in my opinion. I’ve got nothing for ya, you want to dismiss statistics contrary to what football as a code does.
If you want me to agree Diamanti is a better player than O’Shea then I agree, he is.
That does not diminish what O’Shea is achieving this season though. Final question, do you think O'Shea would make the starting line up in any of the current top 4 teams? I would say no therefore, Brisbane should release him and find better. That’s a flawed starting point though - not every player in a team has to make the starting XI of a top 4 team. It’s the nature of the Cap - even SFC have great players, good players, and average players it’s getting the mix right that defines the championship winning teams.
Roar to my eye don’t have any great players in the squad - that’s the 2-3 signings they need to compete next year.
In terms of O’Shea - he’s creating chances for a front two that’s consisted on ROD, Holloway, Inman, DWH, Mauratovic and even O’Shea himself.
The problem sits in Roars front two. No one has found any form there all season.
So next year I’d keep O’Shea and look to put a quality 9 in place and a quality 6. I’m not sure who should play 10 (DWH, Muratovic or Holloway) but that’s another position I’d be looking at.
But O’Shea right now - if it were me I’d be negotiating a contract extension. Would be flawed, but not in this case, considering O'Shea is a foreigner, takes up a big amount of cap space and was brought in to be that "X factor", he is not worth keeping. And they need much more than 2-3 players. Only player worth keeping is Inman if he can keep a consistent level.
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aok
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW....both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed.Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... That’s one of the most insane comments I’ve read.
How else can you determine how good/bad a player is if it’s not through objective measurement?
The High Performance Department of a football team, including the ones used for Socceroos and Matilda’s, literally operates off statistics, statistics and more statistics.
The FIFA Coaching licensing system (A -> Pro) even places a heavy emphasis on the correct use of statistics
So in making that statement you’re basically saying the entire football world has got it wrong. Which is a remarkable statement to make. If Aldred makes the most tackles/blocks in the A-league, does that make him the best defender in the league? What stats do you use to determine how good ones positioning is? Aldreds positioning is woeful, but because he he makes the most tackles his the best defender? Nah You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing against the entire professional football world.
Absolutely insane comment.
And it’s not just football, it’s pretty much every code. You must have seen the film ‘Moneyballs’: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball_(film)which gives a great example from baseball where objective statistical analysis, combined with coaches knowledge/experience replaced good old fashioned “gut feel”.
In football you cannot solely apply statistics to a player to determine how good/bad a player is. Baseball is literally a sport where stats matter most. If your batting average is .300, your a great player, if its .130 your garbage. Most home runs = best player, most goals in football does not equal best player. Matt Priddis won the Brownlow in ALF few years back, because he had most disposals in the season...yet he wasn't even the best player on his team. As I said you’re arguing against every High Performance football Dept from Anfield to Sydney.
It’s insane.
All because O’Shea has some decent statistics too 😂 Compare the chances created Diamanti has to O'Shea. Remember that goal Suncorp where Diamanti whipped in the ripper to Pain for the goal? O'Shea has done nothing half as good. Until I see O'Shea produce magic and on a consistent basis, he is an average a-league player in my opinion. O'Shea is probably a little bit above average, but I agree that he's definitely not on the same level as Diamanti, Ninko, Castro, ABM etc. Has anyone been saying he is?
I'm pretty sure you said it yourself a few weeks back, could be wrong though. you’re often wrong soooooo ....? Wrong with what exactly.....all my predictions about the Roar this season have been correct to date? Not my fault they are average. A few posts ago, you called them garbage. They've now progressed to average. At this rate, they'll be table toppers by the end of the day. Was trying to be polite as some of you don't accept any form of criticism. I don't think politeness is something you suffer from.
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Roar in me Blood
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.8K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW....both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed.Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... That’s one of the most insane comments I’ve read.
How else can you determine how good/bad a player is if it’s not through objective measurement?
The High Performance Department of a football team, including the ones used for Socceroos and Matilda’s, literally operates off statistics, statistics and more statistics.
The FIFA Coaching licensing system (A -> Pro) even places a heavy emphasis on the correct use of statistics
So in making that statement you’re basically saying the entire football world has got it wrong. Which is a remarkable statement to make. If Aldred makes the most tackles/blocks in the A-league, does that make him the best defender in the league? What stats do you use to determine how good ones positioning is? Aldreds positioning is woeful, but because he he makes the most tackles his the best defender? Nah You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing against the entire professional football world.
Absolutely insane comment.
And it’s not just football, it’s pretty much every code. You must have seen the film ‘Moneyballs’: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball_(film)which gives a great example from baseball where objective statistical analysis, combined with coaches knowledge/experience replaced good old fashioned “gut feel”.
In football you cannot solely apply statistics to a player to determine how good/bad a player is. Baseball is literally a sport where stats matter most. If your batting average is .300, your a great player, if its .130 your garbage. Most home runs = best player, most goals in football does not equal best player. Matt Priddis won the Brownlow in ALF few years back, because he had most disposals in the season...yet he wasn't even the best player on his team. As I said you’re arguing against every High Performance football Dept from Anfield to Sydney.
It’s insane.
All because O’Shea has some decent statistics too 😂 Compare the chances created Diamanti has to O'Shea. Remember that goal Suncorp where Diamanti whipped in the ripper to Pain for the goal? O'Shea has done nothing half as good. Until I see O'Shea produce magic and on a consistent basis, he is an average a-league player in my opinion. O'Shea is probably a little bit above average, but I agree that he's definitely not on the same level as Diamanti, Ninko, Castro, ABM etc. Has anyone been saying he is?
I'm pretty sure you said it yourself a few weeks back, could be wrong though. you’re often wrong soooooo ....? Wrong with what exactly.....all my predictions about the Roar this season have been correct to date? Not my fault they are average. A few posts ago, you called them garbage. They've now progressed to average. At this rate, they'll be table toppers by the end of the day. Was trying to be polite as some of you don't accept any form of criticism. I don't think politeness is something you suffer from. True or not - that one gave me a smile thanks. The Ghost and The Darkness - "My mother taught me to be considerate of others"
When I wear their colours, I am the club.
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Waz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW....both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed.Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... That’s one of the most insane comments I’ve read.
How else can you determine how good/bad a player is if it’s not through objective measurement?
The High Performance Department of a football team, including the ones used for Socceroos and Matilda’s, literally operates off statistics, statistics and more statistics.
The FIFA Coaching licensing system (A -> Pro) even places a heavy emphasis on the correct use of statistics
So in making that statement you’re basically saying the entire football world has got it wrong. Which is a remarkable statement to make. If Aldred makes the most tackles/blocks in the A-league, does that make him the best defender in the league? What stats do you use to determine how good ones positioning is? Aldreds positioning is woeful, but because he he makes the most tackles his the best defender? Nah You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing against the entire professional football world.
Absolutely insane comment.
And it’s not just football, it’s pretty much every code. You must have seen the film ‘Moneyballs’: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball_(film)which gives a great example from baseball where objective statistical analysis, combined with coaches knowledge/experience replaced good old fashioned “gut feel”.
In football you cannot solely apply statistics to a player to determine how good/bad a player is. Baseball is literally a sport where stats matter most. If your batting average is .300, your a great player, if its .130 your garbage. Most home runs = best player, most goals in football does not equal best player. Matt Priddis won the Brownlow in ALF few years back, because he had most disposals in the season...yet he wasn't even the best player on his team. As I said you’re arguing against every High Performance football Dept from Anfield to Sydney.
It’s insane.
All because O’Shea has some decent statistics too 😂 Compare the chances created Diamanti has to O'Shea. Remember that goal Suncorp where Diamanti whipped in the ripper to Pain for the goal? O'Shea has done nothing half as good. Until I see O'Shea produce magic and on a consistent basis, he is an average a-league player in my opinion. I’ve got nothing for ya, you want to dismiss statistics contrary to what football as a code does.
If you want me to agree Diamanti is a better player than O’Shea then I agree, he is.
That does not diminish what O’Shea is achieving this season though. Final question, do you think O'Shea would make the starting line up in any of the current top 4 teams? I would say no therefore, Brisbane should release him and find better. That’s a flawed starting point though - not every player in a team has to make the starting XI of a top 4 team. It’s the nature of the Cap - even SFC have great players, good players, and average players it’s getting the mix right that defines the championship winning teams.
Roar to my eye don’t have any great players in the squad - that’s the 2-3 signings they need to compete next year.
In terms of O’Shea - he’s creating chances for a front two that’s consisted on ROD, Holloway, Inman, DWH, Mauratovic and even O’Shea himself.
The problem sits in Roars front two. No one has found any form there all season.
So next year I’d keep O’Shea and look to put a quality 9 in place and a quality 6. I’m not sure who should play 10 (DWH, Muratovic or Holloway) but that’s another position I’d be looking at.
But O’Shea right now - if it were me I’d be negotiating a contract extension. Would be flawed, but not in this case, considering O'Shea is a foreigner, takes up a big amount of cap space and was brought in to be that "X factor", he is not worth keeping. And they need much more than 2-3 players. Only player worth keeping is Inman if he can keep a consistent level. His stats say he’s worth keeping. But you keep ignoring the stats.
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thekingmb
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW....both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed.Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... That’s one of the most insane comments I’ve read.
How else can you determine how good/bad a player is if it’s not through objective measurement?
The High Performance Department of a football team, including the ones used for Socceroos and Matilda’s, literally operates off statistics, statistics and more statistics.
The FIFA Coaching licensing system (A -> Pro) even places a heavy emphasis on the correct use of statistics
So in making that statement you’re basically saying the entire football world has got it wrong. Which is a remarkable statement to make. If Aldred makes the most tackles/blocks in the A-league, does that make him the best defender in the league? What stats do you use to determine how good ones positioning is? Aldreds positioning is woeful, but because he he makes the most tackles his the best defender? Nah You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing against the entire professional football world.
Absolutely insane comment.
And it’s not just football, it’s pretty much every code. You must have seen the film ‘Moneyballs’: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball_(film)which gives a great example from baseball where objective statistical analysis, combined with coaches knowledge/experience replaced good old fashioned “gut feel”.
In football you cannot solely apply statistics to a player to determine how good/bad a player is. Baseball is literally a sport where stats matter most. If your batting average is .300, your a great player, if its .130 your garbage. Most home runs = best player, most goals in football does not equal best player. Matt Priddis won the Brownlow in ALF few years back, because he had most disposals in the season...yet he wasn't even the best player on his team. As I said you’re arguing against every High Performance football Dept from Anfield to Sydney.
It’s insane.
All because O’Shea has some decent statistics too 😂 Compare the chances created Diamanti has to O'Shea. Remember that goal Suncorp where Diamanti whipped in the ripper to Pain for the goal? O'Shea has done nothing half as good. Until I see O'Shea produce magic and on a consistent basis, he is an average a-league player in my opinion. O'Shea is probably a little bit above average, but I agree that he's definitely not on the same level as Diamanti, Ninko, Castro, ABM etc. Has anyone been saying he is?
You yourself actually said "he's the most dangerous attacking player in the league" not that long ago. Didn't he basically say based on goal chances created he was statistically the best attacking player? Different entirely to saying O'Shea is the best attacking player overall and Waz has confirmed he isn't saying that. In general terms anyone who thinks the stats are a minimal or lesser factor in player ratings would surely have no problem agreeing with Waz that statistically speaking O'Shea is at least one of the best this season and yet some posters are simultaneously refuting both the stats and the statement that if the stats are true O'Shea is statistically good. Anyone can agree on elements of an argument and yet completely disagree with the final outcome. That need to refute every part of a statement or opinion, rather than the fact that people simply disagree, is what I think leads to comments about posts just being negative/bitter/hatred or whatever. Yes, however the fact O'Shea is statistically good does not instantly make him a good player. Statistics show PART of the picture.
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thekingmb
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW....both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed.Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... That’s one of the most insane comments I’ve read.
How else can you determine how good/bad a player is if it’s not through objective measurement?
The High Performance Department of a football team, including the ones used for Socceroos and Matilda’s, literally operates off statistics, statistics and more statistics.
The FIFA Coaching licensing system (A -> Pro) even places a heavy emphasis on the correct use of statistics
So in making that statement you’re basically saying the entire football world has got it wrong. Which is a remarkable statement to make. If Aldred makes the most tackles/blocks in the A-league, does that make him the best defender in the league? What stats do you use to determine how good ones positioning is? Aldreds positioning is woeful, but because he he makes the most tackles his the best defender? Nah You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing against the entire professional football world.
Absolutely insane comment.
And it’s not just football, it’s pretty much every code. You must have seen the film ‘Moneyballs’: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball_(film)which gives a great example from baseball where objective statistical analysis, combined with coaches knowledge/experience replaced good old fashioned “gut feel”.
In football you cannot solely apply statistics to a player to determine how good/bad a player is. Baseball is literally a sport where stats matter most. If your batting average is .300, your a great player, if its .130 your garbage. Most home runs = best player, most goals in football does not equal best player. Matt Priddis won the Brownlow in ALF few years back, because he had most disposals in the season...yet he wasn't even the best player on his team. As I said you’re arguing against every High Performance football Dept from Anfield to Sydney.
It’s insane.
All because O’Shea has some decent statistics too 😂 Compare the chances created Diamanti has to O'Shea. Remember that goal Suncorp where Diamanti whipped in the ripper to Pain for the goal? O'Shea has done nothing half as good. Until I see O'Shea produce magic and on a consistent basis, he is an average a-league player in my opinion. I’ve got nothing for ya, you want to dismiss statistics contrary to what football as a code does.
If you want me to agree Diamanti is a better player than O’Shea then I agree, he is.
That does not diminish what O’Shea is achieving this season though. Final question, do you think O'Shea would make the starting line up in any of the current top 4 teams? I would say no therefore, Brisbane should release him and find better. That’s a flawed starting point though - not every player in a team has to make the starting XI of a top 4 team. It’s the nature of the Cap - even SFC have great players, good players, and average players it’s getting the mix right that defines the championship winning teams.
Roar to my eye don’t have any great players in the squad - that’s the 2-3 signings they need to compete next year.
In terms of O’Shea - he’s creating chances for a front two that’s consisted on ROD, Holloway, Inman, DWH, Mauratovic and even O’Shea himself.
The problem sits in Roars front two. No one has found any form there all season.
So next year I’d keep O’Shea and look to put a quality 9 in place and a quality 6. I’m not sure who should play 10 (DWH, Muratovic or Holloway) but that’s another position I’d be looking at.
But O’Shea right now - if it were me I’d be negotiating a contract extension. Would be flawed, but not in this case, considering O'Shea is a foreigner, takes up a big amount of cap space and was brought in to be that "X factor", he is not worth keeping. And they need much more than 2-3 players. Only player worth keeping is Inman if he can keep a consistent level. His stats say he’s worth keeping. But you keep ignoring the stats.
Not ignoring them, I am saying they only show part of the entire picture. Which goes back to exactly what i was saying yesterday, in this case his stats are INFLATED! For all the chances he has created, he certainly doesn't have many assists. There are different elements such formations, tactics which affect statistics. He lacks the x-factor he was signed to bring to the team.
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Waz
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW....both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed.Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... That’s one of the most insane comments I’ve read.
How else can you determine how good/bad a player is if it’s not through objective measurement?
The High Performance Department of a football team, including the ones used for Socceroos and Matilda’s, literally operates off statistics, statistics and more statistics.
The FIFA Coaching licensing system (A -> Pro) even places a heavy emphasis on the correct use of statistics
So in making that statement you’re basically saying the entire football world has got it wrong. Which is a remarkable statement to make. If Aldred makes the most tackles/blocks in the A-league, does that make him the best defender in the league? What stats do you use to determine how good ones positioning is? Aldreds positioning is woeful, but because he he makes the most tackles his the best defender? Nah You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing against the entire professional football world.
Absolutely insane comment.
And it’s not just football, it’s pretty much every code. You must have seen the film ‘Moneyballs’: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball_(film)which gives a great example from baseball where objective statistical analysis, combined with coaches knowledge/experience replaced good old fashioned “gut feel”.
In football you cannot solely apply statistics to a player to determine how good/bad a player is. Baseball is literally a sport where stats matter most. If your batting average is .300, your a great player, if its .130 your garbage. Most home runs = best player, most goals in football does not equal best player. Matt Priddis won the Brownlow in ALF few years back, because he had most disposals in the season...yet he wasn't even the best player on his team. As I said you’re arguing against every High Performance football Dept from Anfield to Sydney.
It’s insane.
All because O’Shea has some decent statistics too 😂 Compare the chances created Diamanti has to O'Shea. Remember that goal Suncorp where Diamanti whipped in the ripper to Pain for the goal? O'Shea has done nothing half as good. Until I see O'Shea produce magic and on a consistent basis, he is an average a-league player in my opinion. O'Shea is probably a little bit above average, but I agree that he's definitely not on the same level as Diamanti, Ninko, Castro, ABM etc. Has anyone been saying he is?
You yourself actually said "he's the most dangerous attacking player in the league" not that long ago. Didn't he basically say based on goal chances created he was statistically the best attacking player? Different entirely to saying O'Shea is the best attacking player overall and Waz has confirmed he isn't saying that. In general terms anyone who thinks the stats are a minimal or lesser factor in player ratings would surely have no problem agreeing with Waz that statistically speaking O'Shea is at least one of the best this season and yet some posters are simultaneously refuting both the stats and the statement that if the stats are true O'Shea is statistically good. Anyone can agree on elements of an argument and yet completely disagree with the final outcome. That need to refute every part of a statement or opinion, rather than the fact that people simply disagree, is what I think leads to comments about posts just being negative/bitter/hatred or whatever. Yes, however the fact O'Shea is statistically good does not instantly make him a good player. Statistics show PART of the picture. The statistics show his output. Agree it doesn’t show all the picture. And certainly we don’t get to see all the statistics, many of those that matter are not published.
But when his statistics are good, and commentators like Bozza are praising him then criticism needs to have some balance.
Apart from his crap shooting I can’t think of much he dies wrong. For a non marquee Salaried player that’s pretty good.
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Melbcityguy
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Group: Forum Members
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you would hate fantasy league it is full of stats
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Waz
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I honestly would be happy for people to pull apart: Holloway. Mauk. O’Neil
and I’ll join in the fun.
But with O’Shea there’s some dogs barking up the wrong tree imo
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thekingmb
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.1K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW....both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed.Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... That’s one of the most insane comments I’ve read.
How else can you determine how good/bad a player is if it’s not through objective measurement?
The High Performance Department of a football team, including the ones used for Socceroos and Matilda’s, literally operates off statistics, statistics and more statistics.
The FIFA Coaching licensing system (A -> Pro) even places a heavy emphasis on the correct use of statistics
So in making that statement you’re basically saying the entire football world has got it wrong. Which is a remarkable statement to make. If Aldred makes the most tackles/blocks in the A-league, does that make him the best defender in the league? What stats do you use to determine how good ones positioning is? Aldreds positioning is woeful, but because he he makes the most tackles his the best defender? Nah You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing against the entire professional football world.
Absolutely insane comment.
And it’s not just football, it’s pretty much every code. You must have seen the film ‘Moneyballs’: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball_(film)which gives a great example from baseball where objective statistical analysis, combined with coaches knowledge/experience replaced good old fashioned “gut feel”.
In football you cannot solely apply statistics to a player to determine how good/bad a player is. Baseball is literally a sport where stats matter most. If your batting average is .300, your a great player, if its .130 your garbage. Most home runs = best player, most goals in football does not equal best player. Matt Priddis won the Brownlow in ALF few years back, because he had most disposals in the season...yet he wasn't even the best player on his team. As I said you’re arguing against every High Performance football Dept from Anfield to Sydney.
It’s insane.
All because O’Shea has some decent statistics too 😂 Compare the chances created Diamanti has to O'Shea. Remember that goal Suncorp where Diamanti whipped in the ripper to Pain for the goal? O'Shea has done nothing half as good. Until I see O'Shea produce magic and on a consistent basis, he is an average a-league player in my opinion. O'Shea is probably a little bit above average, but I agree that he's definitely not on the same level as Diamanti, Ninko, Castro, ABM etc. Has anyone been saying he is?
You yourself actually said "he's the most dangerous attacking player in the league" not that long ago. Didn't he basically say based on goal chances created he was statistically the best attacking player? Different entirely to saying O'Shea is the best attacking player overall and Waz has confirmed he isn't saying that. In general terms anyone who thinks the stats are a minimal or lesser factor in player ratings would surely have no problem agreeing with Waz that statistically speaking O'Shea is at least one of the best this season and yet some posters are simultaneously refuting both the stats and the statement that if the stats are true O'Shea is statistically good. Anyone can agree on elements of an argument and yet completely disagree with the final outcome. That need to refute every part of a statement or opinion, rather than the fact that people simply disagree, is what I think leads to comments about posts just being negative/bitter/hatred or whatever. Yes, however the fact O'Shea is statistically good does not instantly make him a good player. Statistics show PART of the picture. The statistics show his output. Agree it doesn’t show all the picture. And certainly we don’t get to see all the statistics, many of those that matter are not published.
But when his statistics are good, and commentators like Bozza are praising him then criticism needs to have some balance.
Apart from his crap shooting I can’t think of much he dies wrong. For a non marquee Salaried player that’s pretty good. If he doesn't do much wrong, what does he do right? Create chances...but how many are legitimate goal scoring opportunities? Whats his chance creation/per goal ratio? Potentially the lowest in the league. Or do we blame the strikers for not putting the chances away? He takes up almost 20% of the cap, he should be delivering much more. The other day you said Kosmina hates Brisbane so we can't take his comments seriously, maybe Bozza has a soft spot for Brisbane so we can't take his comments seriously?
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Waz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW....both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed.Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... That’s one of the most insane comments I’ve read.
How else can you determine how good/bad a player is if it’s not through objective measurement?
The High Performance Department of a football team, including the ones used for Socceroos and Matilda’s, literally operates off statistics, statistics and more statistics.
The FIFA Coaching licensing system (A -> Pro) even places a heavy emphasis on the correct use of statistics
So in making that statement you’re basically saying the entire football world has got it wrong. Which is a remarkable statement to make. If Aldred makes the most tackles/blocks in the A-league, does that make him the best defender in the league? What stats do you use to determine how good ones positioning is? Aldreds positioning is woeful, but because he he makes the most tackles his the best defender? Nah You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing against the entire professional football world.
Absolutely insane comment.
And it’s not just football, it’s pretty much every code. You must have seen the film ‘Moneyballs’: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball_(film)which gives a great example from baseball where objective statistical analysis, combined with coaches knowledge/experience replaced good old fashioned “gut feel”.
In football you cannot solely apply statistics to a player to determine how good/bad a player is. Baseball is literally a sport where stats matter most. If your batting average is .300, your a great player, if its .130 your garbage. Most home runs = best player, most goals in football does not equal best player. Matt Priddis won the Brownlow in ALF few years back, because he had most disposals in the season...yet he wasn't even the best player on his team. As I said you’re arguing against every High Performance football Dept from Anfield to Sydney.
It’s insane.
All because O’Shea has some decent statistics too 😂 Compare the chances created Diamanti has to O'Shea. Remember that goal Suncorp where Diamanti whipped in the ripper to Pain for the goal? O'Shea has done nothing half as good. Until I see O'Shea produce magic and on a consistent basis, he is an average a-league player in my opinion. O'Shea is probably a little bit above average, but I agree that he's definitely not on the same level as Diamanti, Ninko, Castro, ABM etc. Has anyone been saying he is?
You yourself actually said "he's the most dangerous attacking player in the league" not that long ago. Didn't he basically say based on goal chances created he was statistically the best attacking player? Different entirely to saying O'Shea is the best attacking player overall and Waz has confirmed he isn't saying that. In general terms anyone who thinks the stats are a minimal or lesser factor in player ratings would surely have no problem agreeing with Waz that statistically speaking O'Shea is at least one of the best this season and yet some posters are simultaneously refuting both the stats and the statement that if the stats are true O'Shea is statistically good. Anyone can agree on elements of an argument and yet completely disagree with the final outcome. That need to refute every part of a statement or opinion, rather than the fact that people simply disagree, is what I think leads to comments about posts just being negative/bitter/hatred or whatever. Yes, however the fact O'Shea is statistically good does not instantly make him a good player. Statistics show PART of the picture. The statistics show his output. Agree it doesn’t show all the picture. And certainly we don’t get to see all the statistics, many of those that matter are not published.
But when his statistics are good, and commentators like Bozza are praising him then criticism needs to have some balance.
Apart from his crap shooting I can’t think of much he dies wrong. For a non marquee Salaried player that’s pretty good. If he doesn't do much wrong, what does he do right? Create chances...but how many are legitimate goal scoring opportunities? Whats his chance creation/per goal ratio? Potentially the lowest in the league. Or do we blame the strikers for not putting the chances away?He takes up almost 20% of the cap, he should be delivering much more. The other day you said Kosmina hates Brisbane so we can't take his comments seriously, maybe Bozza has a soft spot for Brisbane so we can't take his comments seriously? I actually think there’s two problems here: 1/ is Riars transition play from defence to attack is woefully slow 2/ The two forwards finishing has been poor, as has Inman, Mauk, O’Neill so blame O’Shea all you want but to my eye, he’s doing his bit and doing it really well.
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thekingmb
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW....both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed.Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... That’s one of the most insane comments I’ve read.
How else can you determine how good/bad a player is if it’s not through objective measurement?
The High Performance Department of a football team, including the ones used for Socceroos and Matilda’s, literally operates off statistics, statistics and more statistics.
The FIFA Coaching licensing system (A -> Pro) even places a heavy emphasis on the correct use of statistics
So in making that statement you’re basically saying the entire football world has got it wrong. Which is a remarkable statement to make. If Aldred makes the most tackles/blocks in the A-league, does that make him the best defender in the league? What stats do you use to determine how good ones positioning is? Aldreds positioning is woeful, but because he he makes the most tackles his the best defender? Nah You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing against the entire professional football world.
Absolutely insane comment.
And it’s not just football, it’s pretty much every code. You must have seen the film ‘Moneyballs’: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball_(film)which gives a great example from baseball where objective statistical analysis, combined with coaches knowledge/experience replaced good old fashioned “gut feel”.
In football you cannot solely apply statistics to a player to determine how good/bad a player is. Baseball is literally a sport where stats matter most. If your batting average is .300, your a great player, if its .130 your garbage. Most home runs = best player, most goals in football does not equal best player. Matt Priddis won the Brownlow in ALF few years back, because he had most disposals in the season...yet he wasn't even the best player on his team. As I said you’re arguing against every High Performance football Dept from Anfield to Sydney.
It’s insane.
All because O’Shea has some decent statistics too 😂 Compare the chances created Diamanti has to O'Shea. Remember that goal Suncorp where Diamanti whipped in the ripper to Pain for the goal? O'Shea has done nothing half as good. Until I see O'Shea produce magic and on a consistent basis, he is an average a-league player in my opinion. O'Shea is probably a little bit above average, but I agree that he's definitely not on the same level as Diamanti, Ninko, Castro, ABM etc. Has anyone been saying he is?
You yourself actually said "he's the most dangerous attacking player in the league" not that long ago. Didn't he basically say based on goal chances created he was statistically the best attacking player? Different entirely to saying O'Shea is the best attacking player overall and Waz has confirmed he isn't saying that. In general terms anyone who thinks the stats are a minimal or lesser factor in player ratings would surely have no problem agreeing with Waz that statistically speaking O'Shea is at least one of the best this season and yet some posters are simultaneously refuting both the stats and the statement that if the stats are true O'Shea is statistically good. Anyone can agree on elements of an argument and yet completely disagree with the final outcome. That need to refute every part of a statement or opinion, rather than the fact that people simply disagree, is what I think leads to comments about posts just being negative/bitter/hatred or whatever. Yes, however the fact O'Shea is statistically good does not instantly make him a good player. Statistics show PART of the picture. The statistics show his output. Agree it doesn’t show all the picture. And certainly we don’t get to see all the statistics, many of those that matter are not published.
But when his statistics are good, and commentators like Bozza are praising him then criticism needs to have some balance.
Apart from his crap shooting I can’t think of much he dies wrong. For a non marquee Salaried player that’s pretty good. If he doesn't do much wrong, what does he do right? Create chances...but how many are legitimate goal scoring opportunities? Whats his chance creation/per goal ratio? Potentially the lowest in the league. Or do we blame the strikers for not putting the chances away?He takes up almost 20% of the cap, he should be delivering much more. The other day you said Kosmina hates Brisbane so we can't take his comments seriously, maybe Bozza has a soft spot for Brisbane so we can't take his comments seriously? I actually think there’s two problems here: 1/ is Riars transition play from defence to attack is woefully slow 2/ The two forwards finishing has been poor, as has Inman, Mauk, O’Neill so blame O’Shea all you want but to my eye, he’s doing his bit and doing it really well. If he was an aussie player and on lower wage, there wouldn't be an issue with him. Replace O'Shea with Davila and Roar are currently in the top 6.
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Waz
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt appears the Brit bashers and RF bashers have gone somewhere else now that Roar ha e a couple of results. But now we got people on here that just want to disagree with any stat they don't like. Fact is Brisbane has shown some improvement and some don't like it. Why that is and why that upsets them enough to disagree and argue against anyone who is a Bris supporter, I just can't say...... The initial recruitment and quality was dismal, even worse than originally anticipated. Roar have come around a bit with the blending of some new starting X1 players with better skill and vision which has resulted in points. This is good. However Roar are far from where they want to be and the over-optimism shown by some, invites a different point of view by others. That's football. You may call them bashers and want to shut discussion down, but good luck! I don't think anyone has a problem with differing points of view and general football discussion, but there seems to be a few people who have decided that the Roar OS recruits where utter shit even before seeing them play a minute of football. Whilst the team hasn't set the world alight, the results are starting to come through and vindicate some people's optimism. I haven't seen a single Roar supporter claim they would win silverware. Yet despite results and evidence that would suggest that the OS recruits aren't as abysmal as some initially thought, there are a few posters that insist on ignoring any subjective fact and continue just trying to ram their ill-informed opinion down our collective throats. The O'Shea discussion is a perfect example of this. I don't think anyone is claiming that he is Broich 2.0, but his stats would indicate that he is among the top half of midfielders in the league and any objective observer would acknowledge this. Looking at O'Shea, he has strengths and weaknesses (like all footballers). Yet there is a chorus of voices imploring us to ignore stats, results etc and just take their skewed dislike of the Roar recruits as gospel. I've even seen some posters are "insulted" by the recruiting by RF. WTF? How is that discussion and not bashing? Robbie had one of the greatest luxuries in this league, the ability to replenish and build his own squad. In a salary capped league there is no excuse, any team has the ability to go from wooden spoon contender to championship contenders instantly. Unfortunately for Robbie, his British brigade have failed him. Fighting for 6th spot, albeit an improvement on last season, is a failure. Even if results are slowly improving (style of football is still garbage, have they dominated any game at all?), they are nowhere near good enough to contend for championship honours. Look at the failed foreigners of Victory and WSW....both coaches sacked. Robbie is lucky the Bakries don't care. Anyone with decent knowledge of the A-league and world football could see how poor this Brisbane squad is even before a ball was kicked. In conclusion = British Brigade have failed, half a season is enough to vindicate this belief and the "Brit haters" are correct. Using stats to determine how good a player is, is absolutely flawed.Win games, playing good football, critics will dissapear....................................... That’s one of the most insane comments I’ve read.
How else can you determine how good/bad a player is if it’s not through objective measurement?
The High Performance Department of a football team, including the ones used for Socceroos and Matilda’s, literally operates off statistics, statistics and more statistics.
The FIFA Coaching licensing system (A -> Pro) even places a heavy emphasis on the correct use of statistics
So in making that statement you’re basically saying the entire football world has got it wrong. Which is a remarkable statement to make. If Aldred makes the most tackles/blocks in the A-league, does that make him the best defender in the league? What stats do you use to determine how good ones positioning is? Aldreds positioning is woeful, but because he he makes the most tackles his the best defender? Nah You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing against the entire professional football world.
Absolutely insane comment.
And it’s not just football, it’s pretty much every code. You must have seen the film ‘Moneyballs’: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball_(film)which gives a great example from baseball where objective statistical analysis, combined with coaches knowledge/experience replaced good old fashioned “gut feel”.
In football you cannot solely apply statistics to a player to determine how good/bad a player is. Baseball is literally a sport where stats matter most. If your batting average is .300, your a great player, if its .130 your garbage. Most home runs = best player, most goals in football does not equal best player. Matt Priddis won the Brownlow in ALF few years back, because he had most disposals in the season...yet he wasn't even the best player on his team. As I said you’re arguing against every High Performance football Dept from Anfield to Sydney.
It’s insane.
All because O’Shea has some decent statistics too 😂 Compare the chances created Diamanti has to O'Shea. Remember that goal Suncorp where Diamanti whipped in the ripper to Pain for the goal? O'Shea has done nothing half as good. Until I see O'Shea produce magic and on a consistent basis, he is an average a-league player in my opinion. O'Shea is probably a little bit above average, but I agree that he's definitely not on the same level as Diamanti, Ninko, Castro, ABM etc. Has anyone been saying he is?
You yourself actually said "he's the most dangerous attacking player in the league" not that long ago. Didn't he basically say based on goal chances created he was statistically the best attacking player? Different entirely to saying O'Shea is the best attacking player overall and Waz has confirmed he isn't saying that. In general terms anyone who thinks the stats are a minimal or lesser factor in player ratings would surely have no problem agreeing with Waz that statistically speaking O'Shea is at least one of the best this season and yet some posters are simultaneously refuting both the stats and the statement that if the stats are true O'Shea is statistically good. Anyone can agree on elements of an argument and yet completely disagree with the final outcome. That need to refute every part of a statement or opinion, rather than the fact that people simply disagree, is what I think leads to comments about posts just being negative/bitter/hatred or whatever. Yes, however the fact O'Shea is statistically good does not instantly make him a good player. Statistics show PART of the picture. The statistics show his output. Agree it doesn’t show all the picture. And certainly we don’t get to see all the statistics, many of those that matter are not published.
But when his statistics are good, and commentators like Bozza are praising him then criticism needs to have some balance.
Apart from his crap shooting I can’t think of much he dies wrong. For a non marquee Salaried player that’s pretty good. If he doesn't do much wrong, what does he do right? Create chances...but how many are legitimate goal scoring opportunities? Whats his chance creation/per goal ratio? Potentially the lowest in the league. Or do we blame the strikers for not putting the chances away?He takes up almost 20% of the cap, he should be delivering much more. The other day you said Kosmina hates Brisbane so we can't take his comments seriously, maybe Bozza has a soft spot for Brisbane so we can't take his comments seriously? I actually think there’s two problems here: 1/ is Riars transition play from defence to attack is woefully slow 2/ The two forwards finishing has been poor, as has Inman, Mauk, O’Neill so blame O’Shea all you want but to my eye, he’s doing his bit and doing it really well. If he was an aussie player and on lower wage, there wouldn't be an issue with him. Replace O'Shea with Davila and Roar are currently in the top 6. He is in a lower wage.
Mauk, O’Neill, both get paid more than him.
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