There's a lot of talk here about ball work, tactics etc.

But do you guys do during pre season. How much is based around running and how much is done with the ball?

I'm very curious to get an idea and differing opinions.

up to January
Futsal
and
all ball work no running individualised skills ie shooting, passing, chipping and more.

Edited by krones3: 18/1/2012 10:59:02 PM

What age group are you refering to?

Oh sorry I should have specified. Seniors, so 18+.

From experience, most 'seniors' injuries usually happen in first month of 'soccer training' due to players presenting themselves as unfit. Old adage "get fit to play soccer, and not "play soccer to get fit". Basic conditioning is vital prior to upping ball work content. Of less or no importance at younger age groups.

Every task in training should be football related, even in pre-season.

For instance in this state there is still a massive amount of running done without the ball to get fit at senior level (split state league), youth level and junior level. This has no relation to football.

Conditioning can be achieved in technical work. Even running around the pitch with a ball at one's feet, working on changes of pace, keeping one's head up, sprinting with the ball, etc, is much more closely related to football, whilst getting fit.

Conditioning can also be achieved on the training track in 4v4, 7v7 and 11 v11. These permutations of SSGs have width and depth. This is scaffolded from 4v4 up to 11v11.
1v1 and 2v2 can occur with extra players who can't fit numerically into a 4v4, 7v7, etc, until they can be rotated.

The active creation of passing lanes off the ball, creating triangles and diamonds of the ball, when the team is in possession, with hooked and diagonal runs, requires considerable fitness. The ultimate aim is making the pitch as big as possible in possession.

Closing passing lanes down when devoid of possession and making the pitch as small as possible, is hard work too.

Over a 90 minute to 120 minute session, apart from explicit technique and tactical instruction, the players I coach never rest except for designated drinks breaks. It also helps with behaviour management.

Also, conditioning can be achieved in squeezing and half pressing in 4v4, 7v7 and 11v11. Full pressing requires considerable fitness. This is done in context with team positioning.

If one adds the four main moments of play - possession , defensive transition, offensive transition and devoid of possession , this also requires a degree of fitness.

All work my teams do is done with the ball except in SSGs when a team or player doesn't have possession. We strive for 1000- 1200 touches. Probably only 300-400 of those touches are accrued in SSGs. The rest is done in the precursory explicit technique work.

1a. Explicit technical work.
2b. Technique work done in context practising with/against other players. Extra players perform 1v1s, 2v2s. Probably a lot more of 1 in pre-season compared to 2, 3 and 4.

2. 4v4 (extra players perform 1v1s, 2v2s or rondos-2v1s, 3v1s).

3. 7v7 (sometimes by building up from 7v2, 7v3, 7v4, 7v5, 7v6, 7v7). Extra players perform 1v1s, 2v2s or rondos (2v1s, 3v1s).

4. 11v11 (if enough players).


Socceroos have performed similar training routines under Hiddink and Verbeek.










Edited by Decentric: 26/1/2012 06:23:24 AM

Edited by Decentric: 26/1/2012 12:29:04 AM

Outdated concept.


Specific type of ball work can be used for warming up muscles to prevent injury in pre-season.

Concept?

Hardly.

Based on long experience.

And your theory is based on what experience?

European coaching practice.

Now set out your mooted pre-season training regime so others can scrutinise it.:)

http://www.uefa.com/trainingground/training/skills/video/videoid=1578713.html?autoplay=



If these exercises are performed slowly over 10 -15 minutes, non-stop, one is running considerable distances without putting too much strain on the body. At the same time one continues to develop technique on the ball and a player is getting conditioned.

If it is too easy for the player, then one can work on performing all exercises with the head up, plus add some more advanced sequences and dribbling techniques.

Edited by Decentric: 26/1/2012 07:47:41 AM

But zero practical experience on your part.

I admire your consistency.:lol:



Edited by judy free: 26/1/2012 09:06:17 AM

You amaze me. Having no experience yourself with anything other than basic primary age juniors, (and a primary school competition?) you quote senior pre season programmes from Europe then demand others set out their personal senior pre season training programme to prove they know as much or more than you. Why?

It's like your claim of a W-League coach whom won't let you personally critique his training sessions, so he must have something to hide. Dammit fella, your grandiose delusions and self promotion never fail to astound.

Because Judy has said I have limited experience, you believe it.](*,)


As others have suggested, Judy trolls, but never sets out any training regimes. This is a thread on pre-season training. What can you suggest on this topic?

The W League coach at the time I observed him over a season, twice weekly, only had a FFA B Licence. This is little in advance of a FFA C Licence, of which I have done similar theoretical and practical training, via KNVB.

Now like Judy, if you don't want to dissect, scrutinise and analyse training ground paradigms, set out by me or anybody else, which I've done with juniors, youth and now seniors, over 12 years, I suggest you join Judy Free's No Holds Barred Forum, or Anarchy Forum, to immerse yourself in unmitigated Scepticism. ](*,)

As usual you attack a person rather than respond to the content of the post. Anarchy and NHBF await you.

I look forward to you describing your son's pre-season regimen as a former state league player.







Edited by Decentric: 26/1/2012 01:39:00 PM

Coaching kids in infants and primary intra-school competition is what I'd regard as a somewhat limited experience.

But, of course, you are free to believe otherwise.

BTW decentric, I'm currently studying craniotomy techniques on the internet. I'm about 2 hours reading short of performing my first operation. Isn't the internet amazing!

Based on the limited experience you have described, most being primary school teams and kids. Correct?



What the hell? He's a fucking school teacher and nothing else, so what the fucking hell is that silly question about? He's a worthless individual and not up to your standing because he's doesn't coach soccer and self fucking promote on a childish fucking forum?

Now explain yourself, you silly old bastard. :x

How the hell do you get by in the game without copping a regular smack in the mouth as a result of your insulting arrogance?

No.

I've coached youth a fair amount too. Senior experience has been with female players.

You and Judy are derailing a thread, yet again.

Pre-season training regimes are the topic. Interesting that you and Judy both launch personal attacks when there is an opportunity to discuss specific football content. One would assume most posters visit this section to discuss football.

The knives have been out for him even on his tassie mate's web site......to the point where he's often found posting with more than two usernames.

Was his modus operandi on TWGF.......he didn't realise the significance of IP addresses.

I asked you a bloody question re shooting your mouth off with the above comment. Wasn't I forceful enough with my request to gain an answer?

Skeptic, check your PM.

[/quote]What are you some kind of dickhead bully.
Why don't you just fuckoff

Yes, i'm a dickhead bully whom forces answers to a question re a ridiculous and unrelated question in an effort to include my son in a childish dick measuring contest. Particular when the commenter attempts to ignore it. On a forum or off. Now, go away, please.

Edited by skeptic: 26/1/2012 08:01:21 PM

You can fuck off
you got an opinion state it
You disagree with the opinion of others give one of your own.
You have an wish to share your experiences then do so.
But if all you want to do is attack those that do then crawl back under whatever rock you crawled out from.
Mods make this moron akk skeptic disappear..

ps i fucking hate bullies.


Edited by krones3: 26/1/2012 08:08:20 PM

So you'd obviously not do the same in a similar situation regarding a son/daughter? Don't be a girl all your life.

ps i fucking hate whimps. No, i don't actually hate and very, very seldom do, so best change that to 'loathe', please.

All your posts are attacking and abusive.
you should fuck off now

Gee, at least you could be polite about it and say please.

Edited by skeptic: 26/1/2012 08:40:26 PM

oh i seeeeeeeeeeeee
you need to have the last word.
Ok good fine go ahead what ever you want say, post it now, all you like and i will not reply to it
Then fuck off for good




please.

Edited by krones3: 26/1/2012 08:47:06 PM

Skeptic, this has been dealt with off forum and you know it.

You're derailing the thread.

Edited by Decentric: 26/1/2012 09:05:29 PM

I'm answering the other gentleman, thank you. Send me another PM and it will be posted.

decentric
Ok
finally i have had enough of these two bozos

Your meltdwon here kinda reminds me of the "limped dick dog" episode on TWG. :lol:

Its not a meltdown i can not stand bullies.
I will put up with anything but not that.

Edited by krones3: 26/1/2012 10:05:09 PM

enough i will just add my 10 cents worth as well

Edited by krones3: 26/1/2012 10:08:07 PM

that was the last forum you and your mates destroyed.

Any semi intelligent and logically thinking FFT forum member can see who fired first shot across the bow. Once again, the result of your perennial rampant arrogance.

And krones, just let it go man.

no

"Closer each day..."

Well usually in pre-season my coach kills us in physical (non stop running) but that's only for the first week. Then he starts to implement exercises with the ball.

I know some people are sick of hearing this, but Dutch KNVB coaches stated emphatically to us that no work should be done without the ball. The notable exception is if one is a top professional side side like Ajax, Man U, Milan, etc.

In this state many coaches waste far too much time doing training drills without the ball from under 8s to seniors. Even staff FFA coaches have been observed doing mindless running.

I've had many animated discussions with players and coaches, usually with a sports science background, who claim they get fitter from doing specific training exercises without the ball. I don't argue with this contention, but players can still become nearly as fit training the same number of hours, but at the same time they can have improved immeasurably in technique. Essentially, we are training footballers to play football, not run in the Olympics.

I've spent time working incorporating ball work into every training drill, even for pre-season programmes. The one time one can do without the ball is occasionally performing specific formational work with 11 players. This is still game related though.

We are taking a mobile football school to clubs to demonstrate constant technical development within training ground programmes.

Thankfully, I observed two state league senior coaches last year doing all ball related work on the training track.

Most sports that I have played (and none at anywhere near a professional level, mind you) have generally involved pure fitness for the first 1-2 weeks and then skills training. No point practicing dribbling if your legs are going to give way an hour into it, I suppose.

That said, it may be that at the highest level you need to go beyond that, where the weak have already been weeded out and fitness isn't really an issue - skills must be honed and practiced constantly instead.

I'd be wary though if at a junior level we stopped looking at attributes like pace, strength, and physical prowess completely though. A team of Messis might beat anybody, but a team of Nicky Carles or Kaz Pataftas will not.

Edited by f1dave: 6/2/2012 11:58:06 AM

http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/craig-foster/blog/1091969/No-more-laps,-let


Here is a topical article about all training being game centred by Craig Foster. Running laps is considered superfluous.

It is interesting to note Jose Mourinho's comments.








Edited by Decentric: 16/2/2012 12:34:26 PM

By dribbling slowly at first in pre-season, one works up to fitness by increasing intensity over time.

In a 10 minute period a player can have touched the ball 300-400 times by doing specific exercises with the ball compared to running without it over the same period.

http://www.uefa.com/trainingground/training/skills/video/videoid=1578713.html?autoplay=tr


By performing the techniques outlined in the aforementioned UEFA video, over 10 -15 minutes a player can have touched the ball hundreds of times compared to running in isolation. Initially if the drills are performed slowly at the beginning of the season, basic fitness is developing.






Edited by Decentric: 6/2/2012 12:08:53 PM

It's one thing to apply that to Xavi and co, but is it something else entirely to apply it to Joe Bloggs in the Sunday League or young Timmy in the U16s?

I hear what you are saying and it is a fair point, but most players at lower levels in standard, and ages, also enjoy ball work and SSGs more than running too.

If all training at all levels is more technically based in Australia, it can only be good for the game.





Edited by Decentric: 6/2/2012 12:31:07 PM

Just heard of a split state league club's pre-season programme being criticised by players. The club had a general sports trainer (sports science background) and a former eggball coach taking charge of the senior female team's programme for pre-season.

I can't believe the confidence that some other sport's coaches have in being able to coach a football club. Conversely, I can't believe a football coach would be happy to have others take charge of a pre-season football programme, essentially at amateur level.

Players have been incredibly sore and tired. They are complaining to the club president, who also has no coaching credentials.





Edited by Decentric: 6/2/2012 05:22:06 PM

Thanks for all the replies guys. Interesting how everyone has a different opinion.

What I've been doing is a mixture between both. Alternating between running drills and ball drills. I only use laps/dynamic stretches for half the warm-up and the rest of it is done with a ball. Plus I'll use one slow lap while I set up the next drill, just to try and keep the boys one their toes and warm.

A sample preseason session might go like.

Warmup

- 3 Laps of an AFL oval (due to restrictions on grounds), including Dynamic Stretches
- 5-10 minutes of a Rondo game.

Drills

- Interval Running, varying between jogging, 3/4 speed, sprinting and walking. I also add running with the ball in on alternating sets to make it harder.
-Passing drills, working on Triangles, getting harder each time adding in defenders etc.
-Plyometric and sprint drills.
-Then some work on passing and holding the ball.

Finish the session of with scrimmage. First half played without goals, just encouraging holding possession of the ball, and the second half with small goals, encouraging passing and two touches.

Just submitted new blog on the Preseason. Waiting for 442 to publish. Might shed some light on the pre-season and other topics.

Look forward to it.

I hope someone can post it on here, so posts appear in both sections.

I like the rest of your programme, Krisskrash, but how about doing the three laps with a ball? Conversely, do the UEFA basic dribbling drill delineated earlier in this thread.

Use specific techniques for the laps.

1. Matthews cut , dribbling the ball inside and outside of the foot at 45 degrees.
2. Use the instep of the foot focusing on keeping the head up.
3. Body swerves.
4. Sole of the foot inside dribbling.
5. With preferred foot use a 45 degrees sole of the foot diagonal dribble, then use outside of the foot at 45 degrees. Repeat and repeat sequence. This is a more complicated Matthews cut, demonstrated by Fernando Torres in his signature move in the dribbling compilation thread.

Whilst doing the running, slowly, players will gain more confidence on the ball whilst gaining fitness. The three laps could incorporate 300 touches or so.

If these guys are good players, make them perform these techniques with their weaker foot.
Make them do all of them with the focus being keeping their head up all the time. Even professional players sometimes struggle to do this.


Another tip, based on years of teaching, is to set up all stations 20-25 minutes before players arrive. All drill grids and SSGs will have been set up Then you won't be needing to move cones whilst players are there. This also increases intensity and minimises wasted time in your session, plus they get fitter and need to concentrate for greater periods. You will need a lot of cones and poles though.

Interval running can be done with the ball all the time too. Don't forget players will get fit in 1v1, 4v4 and 5v5 with keepers SSGs too.

Like your rondos and triangle passing.

Sprint drills can also be done as relays.

A Dutch drill, game related, is to set up in a zig zag for relays so players will have to dribble around cones set up like this:


Key:
P = player
X=cone
o=ball


Start

P1o...............................P2o


X...................................X



..............X......X




X.....................................X




P3o...................................P4o

Start


Player 1 and 2 dribble outside their first cone X when the coach starts the relay.

They both dribble between the two centre cones. Then they dribble outside the last cone X.

When they get to the other end, Players P3 and P4 race each other.

Get players to perform stationary dribbling techniques (stepovers, inside to inside, side of foot sole, front and backwards sole, Matthews cuts) whilst a waiting for their race.

Krones has this drill in Dutch Soccer skills, Books 1, 2 and 3. Players usually love it too!

A focus is for players to keep their heads up when taking the bigger touches whilst sprinting with the ball.

I attempt to do this, but due to limitations with space, depending if we're sharing the ground it is hard to do. It's a struggle in when the majority of our council owned grounds are cricket grounds in the summer.

I'm going to try the dribbling drill next session.

Hey guys is there any websites in particular, you use to get the drills from?

UEFA Training Ground - comprehensive.

Barca Academy - I've only seen five drills on this, but they are all excellent for technique development.

Look at the Football For Everyone thread in this section. There are a number of videos on it.

Dribbling compilation thread in this section has some instructional videos.



Books
Bert Van Lingen (good book if one hasn't done European coaching courses).

Dutch Soccer Drills 1
Dutch Soccer Drills 2
Dutch Soccer Drills 3

The Dutch books have all had content overseen by Henny Kormelink (not Richard Kentwell as it seems in the first two). I find some of the drills hard to follow, but there are some excellent training techniques in the books.

Teaching Soccer Fundamentals - Nelson McEvoy

Coaching Junior Soccer- Denis Ford

There are some other good references in Gregory Parker's articles in Performance Section, plus the content of Gregory's own articles.

Have a look at the KNVB thread in this section. This comes direct from KNVB coaching content. It works a treat on the trainng ground for fast development of players. Players love it as there is a lot of ball work, no running without the ball. The structural work is also useful.

Coerver- many of these exercises are good for individual player development. It is probably good to do a course.

Brazilian Soccer School videos for advanced dribbling and turning techniques. Some are on the internet.

https://sites.google.com/site/youthsoccerlessonplans/executive-docs


This one is excellent. It has lots of European Academy exercises at top European clubs.

I've mainly looked at the Arsenal one. I will use some of these sometime in the next few months.

Sometimes the Ajax ones, like some in the Dutch Soccer Drills books 1, 2 and 3, are harder to follow. On occasions they don't provide enough information.

Cheers Decentric, just having a read now