Traitor.

The man is unfit to hold the office of Prime Minister.

Yes, of all the silly things he's said, this is surely the most shocking.

He couldn't be that ignorant to what they did, could he? Normally the Liberal party have a lot of friends in the Australian military, but I bet they would be pissed.

Yes, of all the silly things he's said, this is surely the most shocking.

He couldn't be that ignorant to what they did, could he? Normally the Liberal party have a lot of friends in the Australian military, but I bet they would be pissed.

Yes, of all the silly things he's said, this is surely the most shocking.

He couldn't be that ignorant to what they did, could he? Normally the Liberal party have a lot of friends in the Australian military, but I bet they would be pissed.

Clive Palmer blocks carbon tax repeal amid Senate chaos
Tony Abbott will now have to introduce a new repeal bill into the House of Representatives next week

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Lenore Taylor and Daniel Hurst
theguardian.com, Thursday 10 July 2014 13.38 AEST
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Clive Palmer
Clive Palmer accused the government of 'double-crossing' his party. Photograph: Alan Porritt/AAP
Tony Abbott’s “pledge in blood” to axe the carbon tax will have to wait until next week after the Senate processes descended into chaos and the Palmer United party senators voted against the carbon tax repeal.

The latest Clive Palmer drama began when the PUP leader rewrote an amendment, insisting that power companies not passing on carbon tax price reductions should be hit with a penalty of 250% of the saving improperly received.

Palmer said the amendment had been drafted by the government in a loose way that meant it amounted to a “whitewash” and this amounted to “the government pulling a swifty on us” and “double-crossing us”.

According to Palmer the government “reacted violently” to his last-minute revision, with senior ministers inundating him and his Senate leader, Glenn Lazarus, with angry calls.

The government subsequently produced advice from the clerk of the Senate that the amendment could also be unconstitutional because the penalty could be considered a tax and tax law may not be initiated in the upper house.

But the government had already forced through a “gag” motion to require a vote at 11.50am and the prime minister, Tony Abbott, had already held a triumphant press conference in Perth to herald the imminent repeal of the carbon tax.

Chaotic scenes followed, with the leader of the government in the Senate, Eric Abetz, and other ministers huddled in a corridor outside the Senate chamber in frantic last-minute negotiations with Palmer, his senators, other crossbench senators and their advisers, as the clock ticked down to 11.50. Media representatives hovered nearby, listening in to snatches of the conversation.

In the end the government was forced into an embarrassing, but temporary, backdown. The carbon tax repeal bills were voted down by the Senate for a third time. New bills must now be introduced into the House of Representatives next week, where the PUP amendment can be moved and where, according to government sources, it will be accepted.

Then – presumably – the repeal will finally pass the Senate.

Abetz and the environment minister, Greg Hunt, held a media conference shortly after the vote to declare the government remained committed to "removing the jobs-destroying carbon tax".

Abetz said the failure of the repeal on Thursday was due to a "technical issue that we can and will overcome by introducing the legislation into the House of Representatives next week."

But Hunt was unclear about the impact of the PUP amendments and whether they applied only to electricity and gas companies passing on the price reductions, or had wider applications. He said the government had accepted the amendments and would vote for them in the lower house, but that PUP could "speak for themselves" in explaining their impact.

As the confusion unfolded, it fell to the finance minister, Mathias Cormann, to draw out a debate in the chamber which the government itself had passed a motion to gag, while his colleagues tried to get some kind of agreement in the chaotic meeting outside the chamber.

The leader of the opposition in the Senate, Penny Wong, said “it takes a special blend of arrogance and incompetence to seek to guillotine and filibuster in the same debate … in order to give the government time out there in the corridors to try to cut a deal to repeal the carbon price, because, to use Mr Palmer’s words, they have double-crossed the Palmer United party”.

Privately, Labor was incredulous at the government’s inept Senate tactics.

A senior Labor source said: “The government took out a gun; loaded it and then handed it to Clive Palmer, who now not surprisingly is holding it to the government’s head to force them to accept his amendment.”

Asked whether he was reneging on a deal with the government to vote down the tax on Thursday, Palmer said: “I guess they should have thought of that.”

Asked whether the government had tried to trick PUP, Palmer said: “It could have been, but you never want to underestimate the incompetence of the Abbott government.”

Speaking from Perth ahead of what he anticipated would be a successful repeal vote, Abbott said “getting rid of the carbon tax is good news for families, good news for jobs and good news for prices” adding that “it should mean a reduction in the prices that you pay everywhere in the economy”.

Palmer said the government had initially thought the PUP amendment was "too harsh" but then obtained advice from the clerk that the proposed penalty was "a tax not a penalty" and therefore could not be introduced in the Senate.

"We had a provision that said that if they didn't pass it [the saving] on to the consumer after 12 months they would have to pay 250% of it to the commonwealth. In my mind that's a penalty. It's a consequence of what you haven't done," Palmer said.

"They [the government] said they weren't prepared to put the amendment and we said we weren't prepared to pass the carbon tax today."

Palmer said if the government "really does want to pass the benefits on to consumers it needs to go back to the House of Representatives, insert the amendment that does that, and bring it back to the Senate next week".

When the carbon price is eventually repealed it will leave the nation with no legislated policy to achieve even the minimum 5% greenhouse emissions reduction target it has inscribed in international agreements. The government has promised an alternative $2.5bn “direct action” policy, but its legislative fate is also unsure, and its effectiveness has been widely questioned.

It can't be denied that they had a great sense of honour. Many soldiers committed seppukku instead of face dishonour of surrendering when the orders came through. But to say "we admired..." is absolutely ridiculous.

But hey, you naively have this Bushido-driven view of Japan as some place of honor and dignity. The Japanese were far worse than the Nazi's in WWII.

You really have no idea what you're talking about here, do you? Imagine if Abbott had said he respected the German soldiers "sense of honour"? There'd be a shitstorm. He'd be more correct in saying that the Germans soldiers had honour - the Japanese were a bunch of absolute cunts.

Drowning Japanese would call over for Allied help, and when it came, they would self-detonate. They abused their POWs - they starved and executed them. Ever hear about the rape houses and the death marches? Did you know there are occasions when the Japanese would eattheir prisoners?

But hey, you naively have this Bushido-driven view of Japan as some place of honor and dignity. The Japanese were far worse than the Nazi's in WWII.

That's a nice can of worms you have there.

-PB

I'm comparing the average soldier. The typical German soldier was just a guy fighting for his country because he was told to. Although they used some of their POWs for forced labour, it paled in comparison to what the Japanese did. As I've said, they starved and excecuted their POWs (they'd even have competitions between who could kill the quickest). There was even a directive for the Japanese navy to kill all prisoners captured at sea.

You really have no idea what you're talking about here, do you? Imagine if Abbott had said he respected the German soldiers "sense of honour"? There'd be a shitstorm. He'd be more correct in saying that the Germans soldiers had honour - the Japanese were a bunch of absolute cunts.

Drowning Japanese would call over for Allied help, and when it came, they would self-detonate. They abused their POWs - they starved and executed them. Ever hear about the rape houses and the death marches? Did you know there are occasions when the Japanese would eattheir prisoners?

But hey, you naively have this Bushido-driven view of Japan as some place of honor and dignity. The Japanese were far worse than the Nazi's in WWII.

Wouldn't have been a directive from the top down though.

-PB

Can see Abbott trying to get us involved in some war very soon :(

Still find it surprising that people have such a tolerant view of the Japanese war atrocities, unfortunately I don't find it surprising that some like Abbott does.

Wouldn't say tolerant, would say more understanding that War is fucked and that its not surprising when certain combatants don't pay attention to things like the Geneva convention.

Just a shame that so many lives had to be lost to reel in Japan when it full retard.

-PB

Big call by Big Clive. Abbott mush have a dartboard with his face on it, but it's good to see someone sticking to their guns in parliament, even if it is Clive.

The thing that's making Clive veto - punishments for companies not passing on savings to consumers - is only being tacked on now. Surely that should be a core and integral part of the legislation from the beginning though?

Just because you disagree with me doesn't mean that I have no idea what I'm talking about.

This is a nation of soldiers who were told that surrender dishonoured them, dishonoured their family, and dishonoured their country. And despite the orders coming from the Emperor at the culmination of the conflict, many of them decided they would rather be dead than betray their upbringing. One soldier, Hiroo Onoda remained in the Philippine jungle for 29 more years.

They may have been brutal and disrespectful to their enemies, but to say that they had no honour is woefully ignorant.

Executing prisoners, civilians... Rape houses... Death marches... Starving their prisoners... Cannabalism...

Sounds like an honourable bunch of people to me.

Sadly the carbon tax will be axed next week but at least a bit of good has come out of it by embarrassing Abbott.

Edited by RedKat: 10/7/2014 04:11:32 PM

And old article but rather hilarious to read now