Coaching courses and badges.


Coaching courses and badges.

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Decentric
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tjwhalan wrote:
Numbering system?


This is where players' positions are described by the numbers on their back, instead of the positions they play. The FFA NC uses the 1-4-3-3 with the midfield triangle with two screeners and one shadow striker. I thought the KNVB were more fluid with changing the 1-4-3-3 into the different variations of the shape.
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Yeah but I just read that C licence prac PDF that Arthur linked, and it looks at both versions of the triangle. And whats the FFA NC?

EDIT: Also If you have a look at the C Prac PDF that Arthur put up, on page 43 (closing down) the pressuring team is taught to show the fullback the line and allow him to get behind them. The goal is in the centre of the pitch which explains why in this instance you would, but this seems irrelevant as in a real game would you ever want to allow the fullback in behind. Maybe im looking at this wrong but to me for a FFA endorsed game it looks counter productive.

Edited by tjwhalan: 18/9/2012 01:55:23 PM
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tjwhalan wrote:
Yeah but I just read that C licence prac PDF that Arthur linked, and it looks at both versions of the triangle. And whats the FFA NC?

EDIT: Also If you have a look at the C Prac PDF that Arthur put up, on page 43 (closing down) the pressuring team is taught to show the fullback the line and allow him to get behind them. The goal is in the centre of the pitch which explains why in this instance you would, but this seems irrelevant as in a real game would you ever want to allow the fullback in behind. Maybe im looking at this wrong but to me for a FFA endorsed game it looks counter productive.

Edited by tjwhalan: 18/9/2012 01:55:23 PM


the purpose of that exerciser and the one above it, is to teach players how to pressure/close depending on the situation. When and where exactly a team will close is dependant on the coaches philosophy. For example a lot of coach like their players to force the opposition central in the attacking and middle thirds, but show them outside when the other team is in the final defensive third (approaching your goal).

Nonetheless, showing someone the line does not mean you are allowing them in behind, rather that you are encouraging them to move in that direction.
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Dimi wrote:
tjwhalan wrote:
Yeah but I just read that C licence prac PDF that Arthur linked, and it looks at both versions of the triangle. And whats the FFA NC?

EDIT: Also If you have a look at the C Prac PDF that Arthur put up, on page 43 (closing down) the pressuring team is taught to show the fullback the line and allow him to get behind them. The goal is in the centre of the pitch which explains why in this instance you would, but this seems irrelevant as in a real game would you ever want to allow the fullback in behind. Maybe im looking at this wrong but to me for a FFA endorsed game it looks counter productive.

Edited by tjwhalan: 18/9/2012 01:55:23 PM


the purpose of that exerciser and the one above it, is to teach players how to pressure/close depending on the situation. When and where exactly a team will close is dependant on the coaches philosophy. For example a lot of coach like their players to force the opposition central in the attacking and middle thirds, but show them outside when the other team is in the final defensive third (approaching your goal).

Nonetheless, showing someone the line does not mean you are allowing them in behind, rather that you are encouraging them to move in that direction.


Yeah your right I've looked at it again and the player is only showing the line it was late when I read it and for some reason I thought he was allowing the fulback to get in behind him lol.

Edited by tjwhalan: 20/9/2012 08:01:38 PM
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The regional C Licences take ages to complete. I'd prefer it that way, but over summer a lot of weekends will be lost.:cry:

In cricket we have a Test match in December. Two of those days will be taken up by the C Licence.:roll:

Then in January we have an A League roster game in Launceston. Now the C Licence will be moved to Launceston for that weekend! I can't believe that FFA always manage to have big events clashing.:roll:

I suppose we will go the the A League game and do a match analysis. Most of us would prefer to just sit back and watch the game as a spectator.

We have one rostered A League game per year.

We have one Test match.

The FFA C Licence clashes with both.:roll:

I couldn't care a less if the C Licence clashed with an AFL game.
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Arthur wrote:
Decentric I have never seen you so speechless ^ :d .

I have the following link which I have been told is the AFC 'C' License Prac book.

http://www.footballwidebay.com.au/uploads/Part%205%20-%20Curriculum%20Practices.pdf

Draupnier if this is correct maybe you can add this as an addition to the FFA C license, and I will remove this post if you do.

Cheers


Surely these arn't the only passing drills that they provide AFC C license coaches?
Steelinho
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Decentric wrote:
tjwhalan wrote:
Numbering system?


This is where players' positions are described by the numbers on their back, instead of the positions they play. The FFA NC uses the 1-4-3-3 with the midfield triangle with two screeners and one shadow striker. I thought the KNVB were more fluid with changing the 1-4-3-3 into the different variations of the shape.


The way this concept has been explained to me is that it is strictly for development purposes and, as the players get older and more accustomed to various roles, the use of a solitary #10 (attacking midfielder/trequartista/etc.) becomes much more flexible and open to other variations, such as one holding midfielder (#6) and two central midfielders (#8 & #10).

The idea behind it is purely for younger ages. I'm not sure of the FFA's exact age to when it becomes less strict, but let's say - for the same of argument - it's up to 14 years of age. As players are less likely to understand individual roles and as the FFA wants to develop more creatively-gifted players, they want to keep that #10 role isolated, allowing the player and those around him to understand the exact nature of that position, without the confusion that may come with two players in that role.

As players become more accustomed to that role, that midfield triangle can change a bit more; two attacking midfielders, two central midfielders, two defensive midfielders.

This is something I doubt is genuinely being explained across the FFA advanced coaching courses (or any of them, for that matter) and I don't think it's something that should really be skimmed over. The depth in which it's explained will entirely depend on the instructors and the questions asked by course attendees. To anyone wanting to take these courses, make sure you ask questions.
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Steelinho wrote:
Decentric wrote:
tjwhalan wrote:
Numbering system?


This is where players' positions are described by the numbers on their back, instead of the positions they play. The FFA NC uses the 1-4-3-3 with the midfield triangle with two screeners and one shadow striker. I thought the KNVB were more fluid with changing the 1-4-3-3 into the different variations of the shape.


The way this concept has been explained to me is that it is strictly for development purposes and, as the players get older and more accustomed to various roles, the use of a solitary #10 (attacking midfielder/trequartista/etc.) becomes much more flexible and open to other variations, such as one holding midfielder (#6) and two central midfielders (#8 & #10).

The idea behind it is purely for younger ages. I'm not sure of the FFA's exact age to when it becomes less strict, but let's say - for the same of argument - it's up to 14 years of age. As players are less likely to understand individual roles and as the FFA wants to develop more creatively-gifted players, they want to keep that #10 role isolated, allowing the player and those around him to understand the exact nature of that position, without the confusion that may come with two players in that role.

As players become more accustomed to that role, that midfield triangle can change a bit more; two attacking midfielders, two central midfielders, two defensive midfielders.

This is something I doubt is genuinely being explained across the FFA advanced coaching courses (or any of them, for that matter) and I don't think it's something that should really be skimmed over. The depth in which it's explained will entirely depend on the instructors and the questions asked by course attendees. To anyone wanting to take these courses, make sure you ask questions.


Makes sense seeing as the FFA is so obsessed with developing Riquelme type players. I dont see the point personally, just means if anything that you will see less players of the Maldini mold. But again I dont beleive it makes a diffrence one way or another.

Edited by tjwhalan: 11/10/2012 04:00:48 PM
Decentric
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Steelinho wrote:

As players become more accustomed to that role, that midfield triangle can change a bit more; two attacking midfielders, two central midfielders, two defensive midfielders.

This is something I doubt is genuinely being explained across the FFA advanced coaching courses (or any of them, for that matter) and I don't think it's something that should really be skimmed over. The depth in which it's explained will entirely depend on the instructors and the questions asked by course attendees. To anyone wanting to take these courses, make sure you ask questions.



If one has an instructor who feels threatened, due to insecurity, they don't like questions.

I note this is your first post, Steelinho.

Welcome to 442.:)
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tjwhalan wrote:
Makes sense seeing as the FFA is so obsessed with developing Riquelme type players. I dont see the point personally, just means if anything that you will see less players of the Maldini mold. But again I dont beleive it makes a diffrence one way or another.

Edited by tjwhalan: 11/10/2012 04:00:48 PM


I think the kind of player developed will still depend on the kind of coaching they receive and, as such, the kind of coach. The curriculum won't necessarily change any of that; it won't stop restrictive coaches from being too restrictive, cutting off a player's creativity. Those able to develop creativity will still do that while those that develop "Maldini-type" players will still do that.

I don't personally see the outline of the curriculum as the definitive answer - nor necessarily near it - but I can understand how they are trying to guide coaches towards being more prepared to develop a better variety of player, perhaps more "utility" players. (Either an attempt at a modern-day Cruyff or just trying to get more Rhys Williams-types playing for the Socceroos.)


As for Decentric's comment, that's true; there will be instructors who aren't confident in their knowledge or simply don't like curveballs thrown in their direction, but I'd still encourage it as neither students nor instructors will learn/grow without being challenged.
Also, thanks. It's only my first post because I hadn't had much else to say!
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Steelinho wrote:


As for Decentric's comment, that's true; there will be instructors who aren't confident in their knowledge or simply don't like curveballs thrown in their direction, but I'd still encourage it as neither students nor instructors will learn/grow without being challenged.
Also, thanks. It's only my first post because I hadn't had much else to say!



Keep posting, Steelhinho.

Good stuff.=d>

Which FFA courses have you completed?

I have had a few vociferous discussions with three successive state FFA TDs. THey don't like hearing it, but the calibre of the KNVB instructors and their program was infinitely superior to any local or nationally acclaimed FFA coaches I've worked with.

One particular FFA instructor completed the same KNVB course I did, but I think he missed an essential aspect of the KNVB methodology. Having said that, this particular FFA instructor and high level coach, suggests that we can all learn something from any course we do. Fair comment.

I have also been convinced by a number of FFA coaches/instructors in the value of constantly undertaking coach education to update one's knowledge and keep abreast of changes in the game.
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Not many FFA courses, to be honest. I'm most of the way through a C Licence that will end by December. Other than that, the community courses except for Senior. (That was before the new certificate/licence structure.)

Most of my personal credentials are through actual experience and talking to peers amongst the coaching community, so this C Licence is a big step for me towards getting that balance. Especially in Australia, where I have no reputation or "network of contacts" to speak of, these will come in handy when I look to return to coaching seriously in the next year.


I always seem to miss out on courses like the one provided by KNVB for one reason or another. They're something that genuinely interest me.
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Steelinho wrote:
Not many FFA courses, to be honest. I'm most of the way through a C Licence that will end by December. Other than that, the community courses except for Senior. (That was before the new certificate/licence structure.)

Most of my personal credentials are through actual experience and talking to peers amongst the coaching community, so this C Licence is a big step for me towards getting that balance. Especially in Australia, where I have no reputation or "network of contacts" to speak of, these will come in handy when I look to return to coaching seriously in the next year.


I always seem to miss out on courses like the one provided by KNVB for one reason or another. They're something that genuinely interest me.


I finish the FFA C Licence in February. Are you doing a centralised or regional one, Steelinho?

Apparently the KNVB Youth Certificate I did has content that equates to B and C Licence, according to a state FFA Game Development Officer. I was going to study more in Holland, but it is difficult accessing the info.

Also, our state TD suggested that I should study in the country I live and coach in, even though the training may not be as good. it is The regional licences are cheaper though.

The more coaches that gain Advanced Coaching qualifications the better in Australia. Japan has 50 Advanced Coaches to every 1 in Australia!
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Decentric wrote:
I finish the FFA C Licence in February. Are you doing a centralised or regional one, Steelinho?

Apparently the KNVB Youth Certificate I did has content that equates to B and C Licence, according to a state FFA Game Development Officer. I was going to study more in Holland, but it is difficult accessing the info.

Also, our state TD suggested that I should study in the country I live and coach in, even though the training may not be as good. it is The regional licences are cheaper though.

The more coaches that gain Advanced Coaching qualifications the better in Australia. Japan has 50 Advanced Coaches to every 1 in Australia!

I'm on a regional one. Considering a central B licence when I get to that, but depends on how the dates fall.

Before applying for the course, I was extremely sceptical as past FFA courses had been worthless due to the quality of instructor, though I've warmed up more to this one. It's not perfect - for all the focus of the curriculum on development, there's no actual discussion of it in this course, for example - but a lot better than I'd expected, which I can put down at least in part to having a better instructor, who's also been very open to questions both during and outside course hours.

Having said that, I'm still very sceptical about courses here, but I suppose it's going to be a while before things become a lot less hit-and-miss as time produces better understandings and better quality instructors.


There would be some merit to study only in the country in which you coach, but I think having a vast array of tools/education can also help if you're smart enough to understand and use those that are genuinely beneficial to the specific culture. Culture plays a bigger part in development than many people probably realise.


I've coached and know several coaches still working in Japan. It's a very different state of affairs there than it is here and its development benefits greatly from its history as well. One example is how much importance is put on the sport in high schools, where annual national tournaments are huge. The amount of outside influences they have is also a big factor. (Comic books, for example, have a huge impact on Japanese youth culture - and we can look at Captain Tsubasa as a great example - than it would here, as they're nowhere near as mainstream or influencial.)
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Steelinho wrote:



Before applying for the course, I was extremely sceptical as past FFA courses had been worthless due to the quality of instructor, though I've warmed up more to this one. It's not perfect - for all the focus of the curriculum on development, there's no actual discussion of it in this course, for example - but a lot better than I'd expected, which I can put down at least in part to having a better instructor, who's also been very open to questions both during and outside course hours.



I was dreading working with the instructors for the regional C Licence. Pertinently, I've just had access to them at the state conference as well as the early stages of the C Licence. One is an excellent coach on the pitch and quite a good presenter, with an intimidatory style. Fine if one is confident.

The second is peerless as a football lecturer in Australia. A trained teacher, he is very good at presenting, listening and instigating discussion. I've seen a lot of him on the training track 5 years ago. I learnt some good stuff from him that I still use, but also there were a lot of practices that were pulled apart by the KNVB instructors.

I imagine he has improved immeasurably as a coach in the last five years. He has coached in the W League.

I'm enjoying my instruction from both of them.

Edited by Decentric: 7/11/2012 07:39:27 PM
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Steelinho wrote:

I'm on a regional one. Considering a central B licence when I get to that, but depends on how the dates fall.


i had no intention whatsoever of doing the B Licence. Now I've found out it will be offered as a regional course, rather than having to do it centrally for about three times the cost.

I'm now interested in the B Licence. The only problem with this C Licence course, is I feel like I'm giving up half my summer weekends.

Edited by Decentric: 28/11/2012 09:34:50 PM
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Interesting that you've got two instructors. The one I'm doing has just the one instructor; this is his first time instructing an advanced course since completing the Futuro III, but he's been fantastic and he's a reputable coach. Very articulate, good at creating examples and he's open to questions, very willing to give advice and has made sure that everyone knows he can be contacted outside of course hours, even after the course has finished.

The state TD also sits in on some of the modules and also gives some information from his own experience. He's been quite good in several parts and he led the instruction for the FFA's V+P game training sessions.


Found out recently from the TD that there's a regional B Licence scheduled here for March, so I'll probably put my hand up for that one. The football conditioning part isn't really covered well in the C Licence and, after getting a taste for it, I feel like I need more.


The only problem I've found is the elitism amongst some of the participants. The country's full of football cliques and I think that's something we'll struggle with for a while longer at state level and below.
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UEFA B (England) practical notes

http://thecoachingfamily.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/uefa-b-every-practical-session-book.pdf


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Hey guys, thanks for keeping this thread going! Sorry I haven't been around for a while. Been busy in Sweden and completing my Master's Degree so wasn't much time for researching other certificates. I'll update the posts with any additional info that you guys have supplied!

Going back to Sweden again in two weeks, for 2-3 months, hopefully I'll be able to post a bit more whilst gone.
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I've been flat out doing coaching courses, coaching players and football organisation in the last few weeks, so I haven't been able to post on here much.

Interesting as the C Licence is evolving.

The course instructors are keen to make local state league -V League senior coaches - think in the same terms I do. That is, to analyse games using the four main moments - Ball Possession, Ball Possession Opposition, defensive and attacking transitions. They think it is a lot more effective to be succinct at half-time match talks.

Conversely, I'm pretty impressed with the ability of some of these very, very experienced guys to analyse games in an untrained, or less academic way than the KNVB match analysis, or now FFA Advanced Coaching courses, try to inculcate in coaches.

For a lot of the course so far, it has seemed that the KNVB training has made the C Licence easier, almost like revision. The KNVB Youth Certificate appears to be vastly superior to the FFA Community courses, that FFA instruct - Senior, Youth, Junior, Grass Roots. However, today we did a different proforma for planning training sessions:

1. Passing or warm up.
2. Conditioning games.
3. Game training.
4. Training game.

I'm sure this is the French Clairefontaine methodology. This is more thorough than anything we did in KNVB. It is more academic too.

I feel stuffed after trying to absorb the different and new methodology today.:?

Edited by Decentric: 26/11/2012 12:48:35 AM
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Steelinho wrote:
Interesting that you've got two instructors.


We have three now.

One is the under 20s national assistant coach to Paul Okon or Alistair Edwards. He is the current Tassie NTC boys coach.

The other is the Tassie women's NTC coach and former temporary W League Melbourne Victory coach.

We also have the state FFA TD taking sessions too. He was the Young Socceroo captain.

The latter two are locals and I think they are the best I've had in Australia. They are not far behind Schans and Derkson from KNVB. Yet they are only just qualifying, or have qualified recently to take Advanced Coaching courses, although one is a trained teacher which helps a lot.







Edited by Decentric: 26/11/2012 12:58:38 AM

Edited by Decentric: 26/11/2012 01:06:47 AM
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Steelinho wrote:

Found out recently from the TD that there's a regional B Licence scheduled here for March, so I'll probably put my hand up for that one. The football conditioning part isn't really covered well in the C Licence and, after getting a taste for it, I feel like I need more.


I was never going to do a FFA B Licence, but I think I will now, since we should have a locally based one starting in 2014. I like the stimulation of coach education.

A few years ago we had to go interstate, cram in a course in a few weeks, then leave to return home. Or, instructors would come here, instruct, assess and disappear.

Now we have locally based FFA instructors, which is great for ongoing advice and to get them out on the training track at your club, or with your team. Before I used to have to correspond with the KNVB in Holland.




Edited by Decentric: 26/11/2012 11:52:23 PM
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Decentric wrote:
I was never going to do a FFA B Licence, but I think I will now, since we should have a locally based one starting in 2014. I like the stimulation of coach education.

A few years ago we had to go interstate, cram in a course in a few weeks, then leave to return home. Or, instructors would come here, instruct, assess and disappear.

Now we have locally based FFA instructors. which is great for ongoing advice and to get them out on the training track at your club, or with your team. Before I used to have to correspond with the KNVB in Holland.


The B Licence here will be run by an instructor from the FFA, as there are currently no local instructors qualified for that level and, seeing as it's the first one being done here, I guess they want someone with experience.

The course information has only just been posted on the federation website; two separate 6-day separated by two whole months. Yikes. Worse still, it's in one of the most distant locations.


Curious to know what's covered in the B Licence. I know there's more regarding football conditioning as the C Licence portion was bite-sized, but I was also expecting a lot more about development rather than such a heavy focus on U-17-Seniors from the C Licence. Participants were split around 70-30 in favour of coaching younger ages, so would've helped a bit more. Understand a lot of that it's discussed, to some extent, in pre-course material, but few are likely to absorb the key messages.
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Steelinho wrote:


The only problem I've found is the elitism amongst some of the participants. The country's full of football cliques and I think that's something we'll struggle with for a while longer at state level and below.



There seems to be little in the way of cliques at our C Licence. Too many old men for that to occur. We have a few State League coaches who know each other well, but they are friendly blokes.

I've done five FFA courses this year - all devoid of cliques.

The same with the KNVB course in Canberra - no cliques.

Having said that, a few of our club coaches feel they can be ostracised by bigger club officials at FFA courses.

Edited by Decentric: 27/11/2012 12:14:26 AM
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Steelinho wrote:



Curious to know what's covered in the B Licence. I know there's more regarding football conditioning as the C Licence portion was bite-sized, but I was also expecting a lot more about development rather than such a heavy focus on U-17-Seniors from the C Licence.


There will be a new C Licence soon where a coach has to choose whether to specialise in Youth or Seniors.

I think I will do a FFA Junior SAP Certificate after the C Licence.
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Decentric wrote:
Steelinho wrote:



Curious to know what's covered in the B Licence. I know there's more regarding football conditioning as the C Licence portion was bite-sized, but I was also expecting a lot more about development rather than such a heavy focus on U-17-Seniors from the C Licence.


There will be a new C Licence soon where a coach has to choose whether to specialise in Youth or Seniors.

I think I will do a FFA Junior SAP Certificate after the C Licence.

I know and I think that could be a poor idea.

How many people will take that youth specialisation over the senior equivalent compared to how many will actually be in those development positions at clubs?

The better idea, if they're going to go down this path, would be to have supplementary licences that work in tandem with the actual advanced courses. (i.e. A "Youth C" Licence that adds extra modules to and has a pre-requisite of already holding a C Licence. Then B, A licences following that.)


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Here is the real deal
Do all the coaching courses you like (they will only improve you)
But more importantly find a football philosophy don't just say it believe it If you are coaching a style you don't believe in get out.
Coach your philosophy not someone else s.

Ange v Rado Vidošić

Ange wins.
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krones3 wrote:
Here is the real deal
Do all the coaching courses you like (they will only improve you)
But more importantly find a football philosophy don't just say it believe it If you are coaching a style you don't believe in get out.
Coach your philosophy not someone else s.

Ange v Rado Vidošić

Ange wins.



ATM FFA encourages every coach to state one's philosophy as a coach, then to stick it. It means within a framework though.

We've done a lot of stuff in the FFA Regional conference and the C Licence about Barcelona's possession game. I'm happy to say that I want my teams to play like them, as far as it is possible.
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Must say I am enjoying the C Licence immensely. Another member from 442 suggested I wouldn't learn much from the FFA C Licence. He completed a course about 4 years ago. The content has changed immeasurably even in that short period of time. I feel like I have learnt heaps so far, but unlike when I did KNVB and was out of my depth for about 5 days, I feel like I have an excellent theoretical base.

Since I haven't completed a recent FFA Senior or Youth Licence, I can't speak for how useful they are as a precursor for a FFA C Licence.

The difference is that there are some former C Licence holders from many years ago in a different era in FFA, and others who have done Senior licences. This is applicable to many V League (state league ) senior coaches for next season.

It is interesting to note how we have different backgrounds. In the classroom I feel like I've been very well-trained in theory through the KNVB. Conversely, a lot of these boys have had massive experience in coaching, without the theory.

With many of the coaches in the course they don't visualize practices much in the classroom context from diagrams and computer generated training practices. However, as soon as we get out on the pitch with game related practices and drills, they are able to make valuable input into training ground practices. They don't seem to have been trained/inculcated in thinking about the game, compartmentalised into the four main moments of football. That is the two transitions, BP and BPO.

I must say, if anyone is thinking about doing a C Licence course, and you can get to do a regional one at a third of the cost, it will probably be beneficial. We are lucky to have a very good instructor as our principal presenter and a good bunch of 23 coaches, devoid of cliques.

I think I'm becoming addicted to coaching courses.

Edited by Decentric: 3/12/2012 12:20:03 AM
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Has anyone found at coaching courses that older participants, I'm 56, struggle on the pitch with the younger guys? The sessions are all supposed to be conducted at slow pace, but the course participant conducting a training session, always wants more intensity or to play a higher line, etc. Good if one is young, but it doesn't work if one is old!!!

In a prac session, players are needed for the pitch. When we get out there and one plays with former national, pro and state team players, particularly the younger ones, one is chasing balls they play in front of you that one could've reached 25 years ago, but not the present.

The old crocks have been pulling muscles and injuring themselves galore!!

We are a bit older than average, but not that much.

What have others found?
GO


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