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Les Gock - 3 Jun 2020 1:39 PM
theFOOTBALLlover - 2 Jun 2020 11:31 PM

Oh come on. I'm by no means a Trump sympathiser and understand why some people might dislike him. That's fine, but let's at least use facts when discussing his policies.

Like most people I was genuinely fearful that Trump's not insubstantial ego and blunt manner would be a foreign policy disaster, leading to endless invasions. To my surprise, his administration have defied the war mongering Deep State neo-cons and hawks. Given who owns 90% of the US media, I can now see why they hate him so much.

North Korea don’t seem to be a problem anymore. One of the first countries he visited was Saudi Arabia, After this, the Saudis arrested around 300 officials involved in human trafficking. Saudi Arabia is notorious for paedophilia and child trafficking, although I'm sure it hasn't completely solved the problem. The neocons baited him to invade Iran but thankfully common sense prevailed. Now they're pulling troops out of Afghanistan. Perhaps a bit late, but a step in the right direction. 

Compare this to Obama. I had such high hopes that he would help unite humanity, but completed his 8 years as the greatest disappointment of my lifetime. His administration bombed at least 7 countries and interfered in the politics of many others such as Ukraine, seemingly trying to create WW3 with Russia. Don't even mention the Bushes. Pure evil, with the MSM not even questioning the invasion of Iraq. 

The media never mention Trump's achievements such as the dramatic increase in arrests of paedophiles and human traffickers, as well as fighting criminal gangs such as MS-13, but I've never seen a President in my lifetime openly hated by the media even before entering the White House. Anyone who can't see this is either blind or part of the system.



My thoughts on Trump haven't changed much since I first became consciously aware of him on 'The Apprentice' some 15 years ago. He is vain, arrogant, brash and has a lofty opinion of himself. I would not call myself a Trump supporter. However, neither am I anti-Trump. And the level of TDS I see so many people afflicted by is unbelievable to say the least... 

You've got to remember that, from the moment he took office, there were 3 things working against Trump:

1) He is not a talented speaker, especially compared to his predecessor
2) He was not an ingrained member of the political establishment
3) He is a Republican

These three factors alone mean that no matter what he says/ does, large sections of the media and establishment politicians will automatically take the opposite approach and claim anybody not siding with their narrative is a monster/ rusted- on Trump supporter. My lack of trust in the traditional media had already eroded long before June 2015 when DJT rode the escalator down at Trump Tower to announce his running for President. The last 4 years has only shone a high-powered torchlight on how little people should trust the MSM, or the notion that what they tell you is for your own good...

There are only two intellectually honest debate tactics: (a) pointing out errors or omissions in your opponent’s facts, or (b) pointing out errors or omissions in your opponent’s logic. All other debate tactics are intellectually dishonest - John T. Reed

The Most Popular Presidential Candidate Of All Time (TM) cant go to a sports stadium in the country he presides over. Figure that one out...




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I love this term "trump derangement syndrome". The conservatives that use it seem oblivious to the fact it can also be used to describe those who stand by the president despite it becoming painfully clear his end game is to divide the nation. 

I am still firm in my belief that Trump was elected on the back of a backlash against liberal PC/identity politics bullshit that even older liberals detest. These divisions are not Trumps fault,  but that doesn't change the fact that the man is literally cancer of America, seeking to exacerbate said divisions to the point of destroying the nation so he can rule over the ashes.

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sydneyfc1987 - 4 Jun 2020 12:37 PM
I love this term "trump derangement syndrome". The conservatives that use it seem oblivious to the fact it can also be used to describe those who stand by the president despite it becoming painfully clear his end game is to divide the nation. 

I am still firm in my belief that Trump was elected on the back of a backlash against liberal PC/identity politics bullshit that even older liberals detest. These divisions are not Trumps fault,  but that doesn't change the fact that the man is literally cancer of America, seeking to exacerbate said divisions to the point of destroying the nation so he can rule over the ashes.

Bit from Column A, bit from Column B.  

Hilary was a terrible candidate & tainted from her husband plus her own corrupt dealings however the fact that she got a free run from her own party plus her media darlings & still couldn't win is quite frankly hilarious.  I can see why they've been shreiking like little bitches for 4 years & soon to be another 4 despite the fact that Trump doesn't do himself many favours the past 6 months.   
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Despite the arrests and charges of the four offices the riots and looting continues.  Justice won’t be done until there are no more Mercedes to steal!

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sydneyfc1987 - 4 Jun 2020 12:37 PM
I love this term "trump derangement syndrome". The conservatives that use it seem oblivious to the fact it can also be used to describe those who stand by the president despite it becoming painfully clear his end game is to divide the nation. 

I am still firm in my belief that Trump was elected on the back of a backlash against liberal PC/identity politics bullshit that even older liberals detest. These divisions are not Trumps fault,  but that doesn't change the fact that the man is literally cancer of America, seeking to exacerbate said divisions to the point of destroying the nation so he can rule over the ashes.

It takes two to tango.  You can argue Trump is divisive but if you’re response is to riot and loot and try to kickstart a civil war then that is much worse.   There is nothing Trump cant say or do that the left wont contort to try to make him look bad and blame him for everything.  Literally every single day wall to wall coverage of Trump doing and saying apparently outrageous things, that when you look into it isnt all that outrageous at all (sometimes is, but usually its just lefties being hyper sensitive, deliberately taking him out of context  and dialling the fake outrage meter up to 10).  From a democrats perspective merely being a Republican and rejecting things like reparations makes you racist, divisive and horrible person unfit for Presidency and a purveyor of the white supremacist order.  If there was a civil war the main catalyst wont be anything Trumps said or done, as he’s said nothing bad enough to warrant a civil war, it will be this very moment when the Left rejected law and order in favour of violent activism to destablise the Presidents re election chances.  Now they will go to November arguing that America is divided and it needs a Democrat President for everyone to feel chummy again.  Convenient huh?

There is no hope for America. Might as well divide it into two parts with capitalism on one side and socialism on the other, build a wall and wait 20 years for it to collapse under the weight of lawlessness and debt.

Edited
4 Years Ago by rusty
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ErogenousZone - 4 Jun 2020 1:27 PM
sydneyfc1987 - 4 Jun 2020 12:37 PM

Bit from Column A, bit from Column B.  

Hilary was a terrible candidate & tainted from her husband plus her own corrupt dealings however the fact that she got a free run from her own party plus her media darlings & still couldn't win is quite frankly hilarious.  I can see why they've been shreiking like little bitches for 4 years & soon to be another 4 despite the fact that Trump doesn't do himself many favours the past 6 months.   

I think Hilary not winning was more down to something like this



Edited
4 Years Ago by NicCarBel
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Trump tear gases peaceful protesters so he can walk out to a church, not for a service or anything, to get his photo taken with a Bible in hand and walks back into the white house.

Yeah shit like that is blown way out of proportion.


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And on another matter this 'the media is the enemy of the people' schtick he loves to run with is straight out of the playbook of the biggest despots of modern history.

Mao, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Kruschev, Pol pot, Pinochet, Redondo, Amin and the rest of them all took aim at the media either directly or indirectly.

Frankly it's embarassing to democracy and decency that the media is copping it as they are.  It's only a matter of time before a journalist is lynched in the US.

A strong robust democracy demands a strong robust, argumentative media prepared to ask tough uncomfortable questions without being insulted by the president for doing so.

If Trump wants to be treated like an actual human being instead of being treated like the petulant child he behaves as perhaps he should start acting like one.





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sydneyfc1987 - 4 Jun 2020 12:37 PM
I love this term "trump derangement syndrome". The conservatives that use it seem oblivious to the fact it can also be used to describe those who stand by the president despite it becoming painfully clear his end game is to divide the nation. 

I am still firm in my belief that Trump was elected on the back of a backlash against liberal PC/identity politics bullshit that even older liberals detest. These divisions are not Trumps fault,  but that doesn't change the fact that the man is literally cancer of America, seeking to exacerbate said divisions to the point of destroying the nation so he can rule over the ashes.

The conservatives/ liberals that use it seem oblivious to the fact it can also be used to describe those who stand by the president despite it becoming painfully clear his end game is to divide the nation.

The above sentence could've been applied to at least the previous two presidents as well. During the Bush administration, pretty much all the same criticisms were levelled at GWB (racist, fascist, dangerous moron, only got where he did because of daddy etc) with the addition of being a warmonger. Then you had 8 years of Obama and it was the more paranoid right factions turn (Muslim sympathiser/ race-baiter/ communist/ looking to rule America by divide and conquer etc)

I somewhat agree with the notion that Trump's election was a backlash against identity politics and a leftward shifting of the Overton Window, but also because many people had become sick of career politicians making big promises then ensuing the status quo continues. Trump was an outsider, a business tycoon who for decades had been critical of America's foreign policy and what he saw as them allowing to be shortchanged on trade. This made him far more palatable to uncommitted voters than Hillary or another Bush Republican.

There are only two intellectually honest debate tactics: (a) pointing out errors or omissions in your opponent’s facts, or (b) pointing out errors or omissions in your opponent’s logic. All other debate tactics are intellectually dishonest - John T. Reed

The Most Popular Presidential Candidate Of All Time (TM) cant go to a sports stadium in the country he presides over. Figure that one out...




Edited
4 Years Ago by Captain Haddock
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rusty - 4 Jun 2020 3:58 PM
sydneyfc1987 - 4 Jun 2020 12:37 PM

There is no hope for America. Might as well divide it into two parts with capitalism on one side and socialism on the other, build a wall and wait 20 years for it to collapse under the weight of lawlessness and debt.

Yep.

So long as people swallow and perpetuate the rhetoric that there are only two types of people and put
EVERY
SINGLE
ISSUE
into a box of either right or left because it's easier to process complex problems if you bat it to one side and move on then you may as well.

This style of politics is the problem not your actual politics. 

Is Trump even right wing or just Trump wing? Does he have a single political motivation other than self-aggrandising?
I truly suspect not. 
It's possibly even sadder that the traditional "right" rallies behind him than it is the "left" rallies against him.

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And on another matter this 'the Trump is the enemy of the people' schtick they love to run with is straight out of the playbook of the biggest despot of modern history.

Mao, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Kruschev, Pol pot, Pinochet, Redondo, Amin and the rest of them all took aim at the capitalists either directly or indirectly.

Frankly it's embarassing to democracy and decency that the President is copping it as he is.  It's only a matter of time before a republican is lynched in the US.

A strong robust democracy demands a strong robust, argumentative government  prepared to ask tough uncomfortable questions without being insulted by the media for doing so.

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rusty - 4 Jun 2020 5:23 PM
And on another matter this 'the Trump is the enemy of the people' schtick they love to run with is straight out of the playbook of the biggest despot of modern history.

Mao, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Kruschev, Pol pot, Pinochet, Redondo, Amin and the rest of them all took aim at the capitalists either directly or indirectly.

Frankly it's embarassing to democracy and decency that the President is copping it as he is.  It's only a matter of time before a republican is lynched in the US.

A strong robust democracy demands a strong robust, argumentative government  prepared to ask tough uncomfortable questions without being insulted by the media for doing so.

Just remember Rus it's the right that carry out acts of domestic terrorism at a rate of 10 to 1.

If anyone gets lynched it'll be a Democrat well before a Republican.


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Munrubenmuz - 4 Jun 2020 5:02 PM
And on another matter this 'the media is the enemy of the people' schtick he loves to run with is straight out of the playbook of the biggest despots of modern history.

Mao, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Kruschev, Pol pot, Pinochet, Redondo, Amin and the rest of them all took aim at the media either directly or indirectly.

Frankly it's embarassing to democracy and decency that the media is copping it as they are.  It's only a matter of time before a journalist is lynched in the US.

A strong robust democracy demands a strong robust, argumentative media prepared to ask tough uncomfortable questions without being insulted by the president for doing so.

If Trump wants to be treated like an actual human being instead of being treated like the petulant child he behaves as perhaps he should start acting like one.



The enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend. The Trump presidency didn't inspire the hostile media landscape we're seeing- it has simply revealed it. Our traditional media outlets don't care one bit about making people like you or I informed or about acting in our best interests. They have been doing this for decades and the public are becoming aware of this, which is why (rightfully) traditional media's stranglehold on news and current affairs is dying out. Whatever you think of Trump, he doesn't owe the traditional media outlets jack shit, and attacking those channels is not an assault on decency of any sort. They would throw any one of us here under the bus and convince millions of people we were the villain if it benefitted the corporate donors and political organisations they are tied to. 



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The Most Popular Presidential Candidate Of All Time (TM) cant go to a sports stadium in the country he presides over. Figure that one out...




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Davide82 - 4 Jun 2020 5:14 PM
rusty - 4 Jun 2020 3:58 PM

Yep.

So long as people swallow and perpetuate the rhetoric that there are only two types of people and put
EVERY
SINGLE
ISSUE
into a box of either right or left because it's easier to process complex problems if you bat it to one side and move on then you may as well.

This style of politics is the problem not your actual politics. 

Is Trump even right wing or just Trump wing? Does he have a single political motivation other than self-aggrandising?
I truly suspect not. 
It's possibly even sadder that the traditional "right" rallies behind him than it is the "left" rallies against him.

No it isnt sad.  Trump says stupid things from time to time but he’s actually done a lot of good things.  Republicans tend to value the economy as the most important metric and so on front Trump gets a tick.  So while the economy is ticking along nicely they are prepared to forgive some of his more cringeworthy and foolish statements, such as the one about injecting hand sanitiser into your blood stream.  But you have to balance the stupid shit he says with the positive things he does, such as standing up to China, opening dialogue with NK, achievement lowest unemployment and black unemployment rate for decades, exiting from Syria, etc etc.  Can you imagine if Obama opened dilalogue with Nk?  He’d probably get a nobel peace prize.  Democrats and leftists are less interested in tangibles like GDP growth and military and more interested in feelings and symbols, that’s why they place high value on things like stirring speeches, appearances, attending rallies and mandating inclusive language that make people feel good.

I’m no massive fan of the President prior to 2016 I wouldnt have voted for him as I fell for some of the leftist propaganda about how he was going to start a nuclear war with NK and destroy the economy, but as you can see performed reasonably well on an economic and military front at least.  So unfortunately most of your statement is full of baloney even though you try to appear balanced.
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rusty - 4 Jun 2020 5:46 PM
Davide82 - 4 Jun 2020 5:14 PM

No it isnt sad.  Trump says stupid things from time to time but he’s actually done a lot of good things.  Republicans tend to value the economy as the most important metric and so on front Trump gets a tick.  So while the economy is ticking along nicely they are prepared to forgive some of his more cringeworthy and foolish statements, such as the one about injecting hand sanitiser into your blood stream.  But you have to balance the stupid shit he says with the positive things he does, such as standing up to China, opening dialogue with NK, achievement lowest unemployment and black unemployment rate for decades, exiting from Syria, etc etc.  Can you imagine if Obama opened dilalogue with Nk?  He’d probably get a nobel peace prize.  Democrats and leftists are less interested in tangibles like GDP growth and military and more interested in feelings and symbols, that’s why they place high value on things like stirring speeches, appearances, attending rallies and mandating inclusive language that make people feel good.

I’m no massive fan of the President prior to 2016 I wouldnt have voted for him as I fell for some of the leftist propaganda about how he was going to start a nuclear war with NK and destroy the economy, but as you can see performed reasonably well on an economic and military front at least.  So unfortunately most of your statement is full of baloney even though you try to appear balanced.

To summarise Rusty's philosophy.

Money is more important than people.

But we already knew that because rather than slam the brakes on the coronavirus like we did Rusty was prepared to let 10s of thousands of people die provided the economy kept ticking along.


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Edited
4 Years Ago by Munrubenmuz
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Munrubenmuz - 4 Jun 2020 5:31 PM
rusty - 4 Jun 2020 5:23 PM

Just remember Rus it's the right that carry out acts of domestic terrorism at a rate of 10 to 1.

If anyone gets lynched it'll be a Democrat well before a Republican.

It was actually a republican who was shot and nearly killed by a Bernie Sanders supporter in 2017.😅.  

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ErogenousZone - 4 Jun 2020 1:27 PM
sydneyfc1987 - 4 Jun 2020 12:37 PM

Bit from Column A, bit from Column B.  

Hilary was a terrible candidate & tainted from her husband plus her own corrupt dealings however the fact that she got a free run from her own party plus her media darlings & still couldn't win is quite frankly hilarious.  I can see why they've been shreiking like little bitches for 4 years & soon to be another 4 despite the fact that Trump doesn't do himself many favours the past 6 months.   

She wasn't a terrible candidate.  The fact she got 3 million votes more than Trump bears that out.

Trump won via the electoral college, which  of course slagged off previously, which is fair enough.

It's just trite to trot out the 'Hilary was a terrible candidate' line over and over again 


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rusty - 4 Jun 2020 5:51 PM
Munrubenmuz - 4 Jun 2020 5:31 PM

It was actually a republican who was shot and nearly killed by a Bernie Sanders supporter in 2017.😅.  

You really are Mr whatabout these days. 

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rusty - 4 Jun 2020 5:51 PM
Munrubenmuz - 4 Jun 2020 5:31 PM

It was actually a republican who was shot and nearly killed by a Bernie Sanders supporter in 2017.😅.  

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabby_Giffords

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/politics/09giffords.html

Do try and keep up.


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Edited
4 Years Ago by Munrubenmuz
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Captain Haddock - 4 Jun 2020 5:04 PM
sydneyfc1987 - 4 Jun 2020 12:37 PM

The conservatives/ liberals that use it seem oblivious to the fact it can also be used to describe those who stand by the president despite it becoming painfully clear his end game is to divide the nation.

The above sentence could've been applied to at least the previous two presidents as well. During the Bush administration, pretty much all the same criticisms were levelled at GWB (racist, fascist, dangerous moron, only got where he did because of daddy etc) with the addition of being a warmonger. Then you had 8 years of Obama and it was the more paranoid right factions turn (Muslim sympathiser/ race-baiter/ communist/ looking to rule America by divide and conquer etc)



You are confusing what the media said about these former Presidents with how these former Presidents acted whilst in office.

Say what you want about Bush or Obama, few would successfully argue they didn't always attempt to bring the nation together on the big issues and in times of crisis. Take Bush with the Iraq War. People hated his guts for it but he never stopped trying to convince those against him that the war was justified

That, first and foremost is the job of the president, to represent everyone, whether they like you or you like them.

Trump is the exact opposite. He tactfully got elected by exacerbating political dividing lines and will continue doing it until it doesn't work anymore. 

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Edited
4 Years Ago by sydneyfc1987
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Munrubenmuz - 4 Jun 2020 5:50 PM
rusty - 4 Jun 2020 5:46 PM


Money is more important than people.


Even the left values money more than people.  Its why they prefer to buy the latest iphones rather than downsizing to a cheap Android and donating the surplus to starving kids in Africa.  Its why they dont stop the economy for the flu season every year which kills thousands.  Its why the speed limits are 100 are not 20 which will save lives, the left would prefer to drive faster even if it kills people.

The difference is the left values money slightly less than the right, but they argue it makes them greatly more moral.  Thats why they get in a huff when conservatives reduce foreign aide by 0.1% but collectively orgasm when a progressive government raised it by 0.1%.

Edited
4 Years Ago by rusty
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Munrubenmuz - 4 Jun 2020 5:55 PM
rusty - 4 Jun 2020 5:51 PM

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabby_Giffords

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/politics/09giffords.html

Do try and keep up.

“Records show that Loughner was registered as an independent and voted in 2006 and 2008, but not in 2010.”

😂😂😂
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rusty - 4 Jun 2020 6:14 PM
Munrubenmuz - 4 Jun 2020 5:55 PM

“Records show that Loughner was registered as an independent and voted in 2006 and 2008, but not in 2010.”

😂😂😂

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/extremist-killings-links-right-wing-extremism-report-2019-1?r=US&IR=T



Member since 2008.


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Munrubenmuz - 4 Jun 2020 6:30 PM
rusty - 4 Jun 2020 6:14 PM

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/extremist-killings-links-right-wing-extremism-report-2019-1?r=US&IR=T

https://law.yale.edu/sites/default/files/area/workshop/leo/leo16_fryer.pdf

“The only statistically significant differences by race demonstrate that black officers are more likely to shoot unarmed whites, relative to white officers”

“It is plausible that racial differences in lower level uses of force are simply a distraction and movements such as Black Lives Matter should seek solutions within their own communities rather than changing the behaviors of police and other external forces.“



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If only rusty was a black man in America how his tube would change.

-PB

https://i.imgur.com/batge7K.jpg

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paulbagzFC - 4 Jun 2020 7:10 PM
If only rusty was a black man in America how his tube would change.

-PB

I know as much about a black man in Americanas you do
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Feast on this Muz

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth-of-systemic-police-racism-11591119883

“In 2018, the latest year for which such data have been published, African-Americans made up 53% of known homicide offenders in the U.S. and commit about 60% of robberies, though they are 13% of the population.”

“The police fatally shot nine unarmed blacks and 19 unarmed whites in 2019, according to a Washington Post database, down from 38 and 32, respectively, in 2015. “

“By contrast, a police officer is 18½ times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer.”

“nine unarmed black victims of police shootings represent 0.1% of all African-Americans killed in 2019”
“There is “no significant evidence of antiblack disparity in the likelihood of being fatally shot by police,” they concluded.”

“A 2015 Justice Department analysis of the Philadelphia Police Department found that white police officers were less likely than black or Hispanic officers to shoot unarmed black suspects. “


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What’s interesting is that under Trump unarmed police shootings were trending down massively.  There’s a little snippet of truth the mainstream press won’t allow into the open.

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trump to stop police brutality, by sending in the army

Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club

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Hey rusty, I'm not one that supports organisations that love to divide, instead of unite.

This is why I'd never support BLM. So I agree with you totally on that topic. I also totally agree that the media will cover up one story, and repeat the shit out of another to suit themselves and create further divide. 

But having said all that I just don't understand your take on the latest incident. Are you seriously defending the police officer for his actions?

In an earlier post you were saying that he shouldn't be charged for murder so my question is what would you charge him with? And if you had the power what would be your sentence?

Personally if up to me I'd charge him for murder and give him a minimum of 15 years in jail. This is according to Australian sentences not America which are more severe. 

He choked the fuck out of a man that was handcuffed for close to 10 minutes. You can't tell me he had no idea what he was doing. Even when he's out cold he keeps his knee firmly planted on the victims neck. 
GO


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