Should be docked an automatic amount of points, or make them not be able to accumulate points next season, thus automatically demoting them to the 2nd division. Also, all home games behind closed doors, and the only fans allowed at away games should be members. A fine in the 6-figure range should be handed out, too.

FFA need to come down hard on these dickweeds.

I love flares, but even I draw the line at Flare guns. Very uncool.

This is the rocket propelled flare right??? only a fuckwit would use a flare gun in a football match. From what I've heard, they don't normally have fans other than this match so i'd suggest that the person who did it is only associated with Football once in a blue moon.

I love flares, but even I draw the line at Flare guns. Very uncool.

And I liked Sahara! I can't understand why so many people hated that movie :(

And the anti flare brigade are out again. Those who say flares shouldn't be allowed anywhere in the world need to move beyond watching just EPL, A-League and AFL. Many many countries and there clubs mangage to safely and effectively use flares during matches.

While much of the North Terrace acknowledged the effectiveness of flares in enhancing the atmosphere at matches, it also noted that in an environment where the Authorities (and some fans) are unaware of a safe procedure to manage the ignition of flares, their presence can be dangerous. In the event of ignition, Dimwitted Seccos would just charge in like bulls to arrest people left right and centre, resulting in the unsafe practice of Flares being dropped or even worse thrown. Maybe if there could be agreement between both parties on safe practice it could work but the FFA would prefer blanket ban and supporter exclusion so until then they just can't coexist.

And the anti flare brigade are out again. Those who say flares shouldn't be allowed anywhere in the world need to move beyond watching just EPL, A-League and AFL. Many many countries and there clubs mangage to safely and effectively use flares during matches.

While much of the North Terrace acknowledged the effectiveness of flares in enhancing the atmosphere at matches, it also noted that in an environment where the Authorities (and some fans) are unaware of a safe procedure to manage the ignition of flares, their presence can be dangerous. In the event of ignition, Dimwitted Seccos would just charge in like bulls to arrest people left right and centre, resulting in the unsafe practice of Flares being dropped or even worse thrown. Maybe if there could be agreement between both parties on safe practice it could work but the FFA would prefer blanket ban and supporter exclusion so until then they just can't coexist.

And the anti flare brigade are out again. Those who say flares shouldn't be allowed anywhere in the world need to move beyond watching just EPL, A-League and AFL. Many many countries and there clubs mangage to safely and effectively use flares during matches.

While much of the North Terrace acknowledged the effectiveness of flares in enhancing the atmosphere at matches, it also noted that in an environment where the Authorities (and some fans) are unaware of a safe procedure to manage the ignition of flares, their presence can be dangerous. In the event of ignition, Dimwitted Seccos would just charge in like bulls to arrest people left right and centre, resulting in the unsafe practice of Flares being dropped or even worse thrown. Maybe if there could be agreement between both parties on safe practice it could work but the FFA would prefer blanket ban and supporter exclusion so until then they just can't coexist.

And the anti flare brigade are out again. Those who say flares shouldn't be allowed anywhere in the world need to move beyond watching just EPL, A-League and AFL. Many many countries and there clubs mangage to safely and effectively use flares during matches.

While much of the North Terrace acknowledged the effectiveness of flares in enhancing the atmosphere at matches, it also noted that in an environment where the Authorities (and some fans) are unaware of a safe procedure to manage the ignition of flares, their presence can be dangerous. In the event of ignition, Dimwitted Seccos would just charge in like bulls to arrest people left right and centre, resulting in the unsafe practice of Flares being dropped or even worse thrown. Maybe if there could be agreement between both parties on safe practice it could work but the FFA would prefer blanket ban and supporter exclusion so until then they just can't coexist.

They will be hammered - and rightly so.

I might have some sympathy with the committee at the club if they had come out with any statement to condemn the 'supporters', but they've not said anything against the actions, or given any sign of acknowledging the issue is in any way related to their club.

Suspect they will not be playing in the VPL next year.

And the anti flare brigade are out again. Those who say flares shouldn't be allowed anywhere in the world need to move beyond watching just EPL, A-League and AFL. Many many countries and there clubs mangage to safely and effectively use flares during matches.

While much of the North Terrace acknowledged the effectiveness of flares in enhancing the atmosphere at matches, it also noted that in an environment where the Authorities (and some fans) are unaware of a safe procedure to manage the ignition of flares, their presence can be dangerous. In the event of ignition, Dimwitted Seccos would just charge in like bulls to arrest people left right and centre, resulting in the unsafe practice of Flares being dropped or even worse thrown. Maybe if there could be agreement between both parties on safe practice it could work but the FFA would prefer blanket ban and supporter exclusion so until then they just can't coexist.

Out of curiosity do A-League clubs get fines when fans rip flares? I know VPL clubs do, I'm interested to see if the FFA apply the measures as the FFV.

Yep 5k I believe.

Edited by Joffa: 8/11/2012 05:46:37 PM

Just a guess? or have you got inside word?

How would you know there is no injuries from them ??????? you would have no idea so how about not commenting on something miles and miles away. a quick search in Google will show you yes people get injures from flares at football games at other country's.

People also get injured driving cars, riding horses, PLAYING football etc

Flares aren't the issue. The issue is stupid people

Dandenong Thunder Soccer Club fined $40,000 after two girls burned by flare

by:
Alex White From:
Herald Sun November 09, 2012
12:00AM

A MELBOURNE football team has been slapped with the biggest fine in Victorian Premier League history, after two girls were burned by a flare during the grand final.

Football Federation Victoria fined the Dandenong Thunder Soccer Club $40,000 and banned supporters from watching 10 home games next season.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/dandenong-thunder-soccer-club-fined-40000-after-two-girls-burned-by-flare/story-e6frf7kx-1226513377043

Also read from dandys fb that they might end up winding up as they can't afford to play behind closed doors and pay the fine as they won't be making money.

Flares are fine. This story is as credible as an ACA story. Long live pyro.

Flares are fine. This story is as credible as an ACA story. Long live pyro.

bro.... im from Serbia and i have been with the delije where they have tried bashing cops with flares fkn crazy cunts but i support them

when 2 little girls get injured, that for me that crosses the line

i am a pyro man long before the farken a-league existed, the coward who did it should have put his hand up and copped the shit, but fark it if you call that a supporter.........

Yeah, of course, the girls parents set fire to them, just to make flares look bad.

Sunday, 13 January 2013 13:31
Thunder seeks justice from FFA appeal
Written by Craig MacKenzie

VICTORIAN Premier League champion Dandenong Thunder is waiting on confirmation of a hearing date after lodging an appeal with Football Federation Australia.

Thunder has exhausted the Football Federation Victoria tribunal and appeals process and feels compelled to take its case to the national body.
The club that swept all before it on the field in 2012 has had its ongoing existence put to the test by a hefty fine and a closed-doors home game ruling after well-publicised events involving flares and minor injuries to two female spectators that took place during last October’s VPL Grand Final win over Oakleigh Cannons at AAMI Park.
The three-point deduction that also hangs over Thunder’s head going into the 2013 season seems almost an afterthought to the looming legal joust.
The original FFV tribunal hearing on 8 November fined Thunder $40,000 and imposed a lockout of 10 home games but on appeal the fine was raised to $45,000 while the home-game lockout was ruled to end by 30 June.

At the time of the appeal ruling Thunder had five games at home before the mid-season deadline but shortly after FFV released a revised VPL fixture that switched two away games in the first half of the season to Thunder home games effectively giving the club a seven-game lockout at George Andrews Reserve.

Thunder found the timing of the revised fixture curious to say the least. One of the rescheduled games was originally against South Melbourne at Lakeside Stadium but FFV stated that the South Melbourne home ground would not be available due to issues related to the staging of the 2013 Australian Grand Prix.

Why Souths home ground should remain affected by an event staged six weeks earlier is puzzling.
“We could have lodged fixture requests ourselves but FFV would likely see any request by us to be prejudicial to the actual punishment at hand,” said Thunder spokesperson Cezar Jakupi.

“We made a decision not to expend too much energy on this as we want to focus our energy on areas where we can achieve a better result.
“I’m expecting that we will get a complete rehearing at FFA.”

Jakupi believes that there is a marked difference in penalties imposed at national and state level for similar offences albeit that the FFA constitution says that all state federations must operate under the directions and rules of FFA as the peak body.
“I would argue that there has been a series of incidents in the current A-League season where no club has been held solely liable for the incidents,” he said.

“Last year Ben Buckley (then FFA CEO) released a statement saying that they would punish the individual because a club has thousands of supporters and how can anyone reasonably expect a club to control every one of those supporters.”
There are some strange elements to this case and what took place during the FFV tribunal and appeals process.

Prior to the Grand Final, Thunder contacted FFV and offered to employ Blue Thunder security on the day.
Blue Thunder’s principal is Kosta Avramovski and his company has provided security at Thunder home games for the past couple of seasons.
FFV knocked back the offer saying that Thunder supporters had behaved in exemplary fashion in 2012 and that the federation rated the game as a low-risk event.

Another surprising element of this case is the charge sheets under which Thunder faced judgment and eventual penalty.
Thunder was charged as the home team at what was a neutral venue when in fact Oakleigh was the official home team and Thunder the away team.
“What our senior counsel argued at the appeal hearing was that Dandenong Thunder was incorrectly charged and that this was prejudicial to the hearing as the home team under FFV rules of competition bears much greater responsibility for security arrangements and supporter behaviour,” said Jakupi.

“It actually is a crucial point because under FFV’s own rules it says that if you are the home team and problems occur and we can’t properly identify who it was then the home team has a responsibility for whoever did that.
“The appeals board said that the incorrect charge sheet was not that relevant to the punishments handed out at the initial tribunal hearing. It was, to put it mildly, perplexing how they interpreted that.”

At the tribunal FFV presented as part of its evidence a comment by a 14-year-old on Dandenong Thunder’s facebook page on the morning of the Grand Final where the teenager had said he’d got two flares.
Based upon this comment by a minor via a social media vehicle notorious for the inaccuracy and frivolity of posts, the federation attempted to argue that Thunder knew what was going to happen and was complicit in the events that unfolded that day.

However, the club’s response was swift.
“After the tribunal hearing Thunder got the kid and his parents down to the club and grilled him. The club then went to Dandenong police station and handed in the boy’s name and contact details and invited police to investigate further. All of this was raised at appeal but FFV kept saying that we had not been compliant,” said Jakupi.
“Claims by FFV at appeal that we were complicit in the events of the day and had been unco-operative and were stonewalling were strongly denied by the club in terms of the evidence at hand.”

Thunder argued that it has over 3000 members on its facebook site and it was impossible to monitor every single post, certainly not in real time.
The club maintains that the comments made by the 14 year old were not even seen by any of the club’s facebook administrators as everyone was preparing for the Grand Final being staged a few hours later.
Subsequent to the Grand Final triumph there were hundreds of posts made on Thunder’s facebook site and the earlier post by the 14-year-old rolled off without anyone batting an eyelid until it was brought up by the FFV at the tribunal hearing.

On numerous occasions Thunder has issued messages through facebook, and community media and club meetings, condemning the firing of the flares at AAMI Park and appealing for witnesses to come forward with information or to go directly to Crime Stoppers and provide this information to police. “What more can we do?” asked Jakupi.

At appeal Jakupi presented a financial statement which outlined the total impact of the tribunal fines as being close to $250,000 due to the lockout effect on gate receipts, memberships and sponsorship.
“Such fines and the lockout are unprecedented in Australian sport and we would strongly argue that no other club could survive such an impost,” he said.
“I think there clearly should be some consistency here. FFV targets a non-professional club, a community club like Dandenong Thunder, who cops a massive financial penalty not at their home ground where they are not responsible for policing or security yet we don’t see FFA sanctioning A-League clubs in the manner in which we have been sanctioned.
“What we are saying is that the club isn’t trying to wash its hands of responsibility but to make the club fully and solely responsible for what occurred is blatantly wrong.

“There were reports of serious breaches of security at AAMI Park at the VPL Grand Final and the FFV tribunal at the original hearing was puzzled as to the fact that not once did police, AAMI Park or security officials attempt to go to the area of the stand from where the flares were emanating. There is something not right there and the club does not accept that the FFV should lump us with all the responsibility.”
It’s important to note that an extensive Victoria Police investigation following the Grand Final has yet to identify those who set off the flares and at this stage no charges have been laid over the incident.

FFV general manager of football Tim Frampton said in the Dandenong Leader last month that he believed the competition “ran one of the fairest disciplinary procedures in Australian sport and Dandenong Thunder were given a fair hearing during their initial tribunal and subsequent appeal.”
Well, you could hardly expect anything different now could you?

I’ll leave you with a quote from colleague Mark Boric, which may well sum up the way Thunder feels right now. In September 2011, Boric commented in Goal! Weekly on the FFV tribunal thus:
“Consistency, fairness, common sense and logic are just some of the things I consider lacking from the current set-up.”
Don’t be surprised if these conflicting views end up under the full glare of the Victorian Supreme Court spotlight. We’ll keep you posted.

Nothing will be added to the situation. FFV = FFA

FFA ANNOUNCES FINDINGS OF DANDENONG THUNDER APPEAL

http://www.footballfedvic.com.au/index.php?id=17&tx_ttnews%5Byear%5D=2013&tx_ttnews%5Bmonth%5D=03&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=1021&cHash=c8734d2925dc691b4509e9a7965b81b7


Football Federation Australia (FFA) has announced the findings of its Appeals Committee on Dandenong Thunder’s appeal from FFV’s Appeals Board decision concerning misconduct at the 2012 Victorian Premier League Grand Final at AAMI Park on 14 October, which included the firing of rocket flares.

The FFA Appeals Committee made the following determinations:

• The first five competitive matches of the 2013 season for the Dandenong Thunder Men’s Premier League Senior and Reserve teams be played in the absence of any Dandenong Thunder and opposition club members and supporters (excluding players) save that each club will be at liberty to allow a limit of 12 Club Associates to attend to act as coaches and necessary support staff

• The Club is fined $40,000

• The Men’s Senior Team is deducted three championship points from the 2013 Victorian Premier League season

• Prior to 30 June, all club members must undertake and complete an FFV Respect and Responsibility Course

• No Dandenong Thunder members shall be admitted to home games after the fifth competitive game of the 2013 season unless each member produces evidence of having attended the FFV Respect and Responsibility Course

FFA’s Appeals Committee noted that the match was a “significant day for the VPL, and for football in Victoria generally”. Notwithstanding the importance of the club in the Albanian community and more generally in the Dandenong area, it said:

“This was, after all, the showcase of the game in Victoria and the behaviour of the Club’s supporters was all the more appalling in that context. Further, and arguably more importantly, spectators, including many children, were put at risk of substantial personal injury by the discharging of flares, particularly rocket flares.”

FFV CEO Peter Gome welcomed the decision which, he said, reinforces FFV’s commitment to a Zero Tolerance policy when dealing with anti-social behaviour.

“FFV is committed to ensuring that community football matches uphold community standards and provide a safe and family-friendly environment which allows players, officials and spectators to enjoy the game,” he said.

“FFV’s Zero Tolerance Policy has seen a drastic reduction in overall misconduct since its implementation in 2008 and 2012 saw this trend continue.

“Only 102 matters were brought before the FFV Independent Tribunal in 2012 compared with 155 in 2011.”

FFV has run many Respect and Responsibility courses to help club members and supporters understand the importance of good behaviour on and off the field and the FFV Independent Tribunal has used this in conjunction with point deductions and possible relegations as an alternative to fines where appropriate.

There were only 50 instances of clubs being fined at tribunal in 2012, compared to 246 in 2011.

FFV looks forward to an exciting, competitive and safe 2013 Victorian Premier League season which kicks-off on Friday 5 April.

$40,000 flare-lighting fine could ruin soccer team Dandenong Thunder

by: Marty Shevelove

DANDENONG Thunder may appeal to the Supreme Court to avoid a $40,000 fine for flare-throwing at the football Grand Final last year.

..Football Federation Australia this afternoon reduced the club's fine from $45,000 to $40,000 and the number of lock-out home games from seven to five.

The flares injured two girls at last year's Victorian Premier League Grand Final at AAMI Park.

Do you think the fine is fair? Tell us below.

Dandenong will also lose three championship points once the 2013 Victorian Premier League season begins next month and prior to June 30 all club members must undertake and complete an FFV respect and responsibility course.

Thunder spokesman Cezar Jakupi called the penalties "still manifestly excessive.''

"We are still extremely disappointed. They have not taken into account that the penalties will effectively cause the club to not be able to field a competitive senior squad this year,'' Jakupi said.

"Each home game is worth $15,000 to us. You multiply five by $15,000 plus the $40,000 and it is a $115,000 fine. It is manifestly excessive and unjust.

"They are basing it on a previous incident in 2011 ($20,000 fine and a two-game ban) and viewing this as a repeat offence. But since that time - over 18 months - the Thunder had a clean sheet.''

The Thunder argued there had been 653 offences involving FFV clubs over the past five years and that 650 of them carried fines of less that $6000 and did not include supporter bans.

"There was a full-scale pitch invasion involving South Melbourne and Heidelberg United at Lakeside Stadium in 2010 which caused the game to be abandoned and there was only a $2000 fine to South,'' Jakupi noted.

"From the outset we condemned the firing of the flare and asked people to dob the offenders in. The decision is going to ruin a community club. At this point we need to be looking at surviving. Now we have to tell our players they may need to look for another club. It is unfathomable.''

The depleted Thunder are scheduled to open their title defence on Saturday, April 6 against the Southern Stars at Kingston Heath Soccer Complex.

Its line-up will likely consist of players left over from last year's team and from its Under 21 team.

Jakupi said the Thunder faced relegation from the Premier League if it was forced to field a team primarily of teenagers.

The FFA's appeals committee said despite the importance of the club in the Albanian community and more generally in the Dandenong area, the behaviour of the club's supporters at the grand final was "appalling''.

"Spectators, including many children, were put at risk of substantial personal injury by the discharging of flares, particularly rocket flares.''

FFV CEO Peter Gome welcomed the decision which, he said, reinforced FFV's commitment to a zero-tolerance policy when dealing with anti-social behaviour.

"FFV is committed to ensuring that community football matches uphold community standards and provide a safe and family-friendly environment which allows players, officials and spectators to enjoy the game,'' he said.

"FFV's zero-tolerance policy has seen a drastic reduction in overall misconduct since its implementation in 2008 and 2012 saw this trend continue.''

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/south-east/flare-lighting-fine-could-ruin-soccer-team-dandenong-thunder/story-fngnvmhm-1226593395021

They have not taken into account that the penalties will effectively cause the club to not be able to field a competitive senior squad this year,''

FFV CEO Peter Gome welcomed the decision which, he said, reinforced FFV's commitment to a zero-tolerance policy when dealing with anti-social behaviour.

"Each home game is worth $15,000 to us. You multiply five by $15,000 plus the $40,000 and it is a $115,000 fine. It is manifestly excessive and unjust.

"They are basing it on a previous incident in 2011 ($20,000 fine and a two-game ban) and viewing this as a repeat offence. But since that time - over 18 months - the Thunder had a clean sheet.''

Approx 1,000 fans, each needing to book in and take a 'course' that costs $25 each. I've no problem with the FFV throwing the book at badly behaved supporters - but to force 1,000 to do a course because 2-3 of them are complete pricks is outrageous.

There has been worse incidents at many A League games yet these are never punished with anything so severe as Thunder copped. It seems there is one law for the corporate A League clubs and one for the struggling local clubs. I can't figure the F.F.V.mentality.

Actually it's not. These people collectively are protecting the rocket flare lighters

When was the last time a rocket flare was fired during an A-League match?

How did you come to this conclusion?

“Claims by FFV at appeal that we were complicit in the events of the day and had been unco-operative and were stonewalling

Police have appealed to Thunder supporters for information, believing someone in their supporter base must know who is responsible for firing the flare. But detectives have been disappointed with the lack of information provided.


http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/melbourne-soccer-team-charged-over-flare-that-injured-children-20121106-28v96.html#ixzz2BPWEOwMY

So did every Melbourne Victory fan have to do a course when someone threw the flare which hit Andy Bourakis?

And the anti flare brigade are out again. Those who say flares shouldn't be allowed anywhere in the world need to move beyond watching just EPL, A-League and AFL. Many many countries and there clubs mangage to safely and effectively use flares during matches.

While much of the North Terrace acknowledged the effectiveness of flares in enhancing the atmosphere at matches, it also noted that in an environment where the Authorities (and some fans) are unaware of a safe procedure to manage the ignition of flares, their presence can be dangerous. In the event of ignition, Dimwitted Seccos would just charge in like bulls to arrest people left right and centre, resulting in the unsafe practice of Flares being dropped or even worse thrown. Maybe if there could be agreement between both parties on safe practice it could work but the FFA would prefer blanket ban and supporter exclusion so until then they just can't coexist.

How flares are used overseas, and their safety record, isn't relevant. The only issue is that they are illegal in Australian sporting venues, supporters know this, yet tosspots continue to use them. They don't bother me on a personal level - but when you know its against the rules, and you do it anyway, you MUST expect penalties, and you can't argue about them when they come.

These threads are giving me cancer.

Actually, no. That's from inhaling too much smoke from flares. =;

No you can't argue about the penalties when you take the risk, it's the law of the land.

However, if you take a step further and look into the merits of the law, this is a law designed for the purpose of maintaining safety and I don't think it is achieving that goal as evidenced by this recent affair.

Actually it's not. These people collectively are protecting the rocket flare lighters and therefore they deserve everything they get. I agree the punishment is onerous but quite clearly all and sundry are being told this type of behaviour is no longer acceptable and if clubs and their supporters are going to condone this type of behaviour then their clubs very existences threatened.

Next time, their fellow supporters won't be quite so accepting of illegal behaviour.

Have to take you to task on that one, Joffa. I'm quite happy to accept that a few supporters may know who fired off the flares - but I'm pretty confident that the vast majority of the supporters didn't. As the flare in question was fired off as Dandenong fans were in the process of celebrating the winning goal in the grand final, I think it's fare to say that few of them would have been scanning the crowd to identify potential threats...

As someone else on the thread pointed out - can you, as a Victory fan, identify those who have set off flares at Victory games, or name and shame those who ripped out the seats at Etihad? The same logic applies here.

Find those who were responsible for the illegal activity - and absolutely throw the book at them, but do not presume all the be guilty for the behavior of a few. The FFA/FFV by handing out these punishments are treating state league fans in the same way the mainstream media treats all football fans - they are thugs unless they can prove otherwise.

I agree the punishment is onerous but quite clearly all and sundry are being told this type of behaviour is no longer acceptable and if clubs and their supporters are going to condone this type of behaviour then their clubs very existences threatened.

Is your suggestion that having a ban on flares isn't working, so let's just allow them? Imagine how many we'd have if they were legal...

Simply put they stand by one another, not cast one another out

And that is why they are where they are now....

In the VPL? Damn. they will make the money up in a few years. The club is a proper community and host events for the Dandenong community as well as the Albanian community.

Is your suggestion that having a ban on flares isn't working, so let's just allow them? Imagine how many we'd have if they were legal...

I don't think you get legislation mate. Think of it like this: we allow booze even though it's dangerous, but we set certain limits on it and its use. What about fireworks, you need a license to use them- they're not illegal. It's the same sort of principle, it's not about allowing a free-for-all, it's about allowing a part of the game to be a part of the game while having some degree of control over it.

SelectFew also makes a point, if I snuck a flare in I'd throw it to make sure I wouldn't get caught but that is where serious danger is caused.

The point is that you shouldn't be sneaking a flare in anyway. The argument that if it was legal you'd be more responsible is bizarre. It's like saying "If I was allowed to do 100 in this 50 zone, I would be able to watch the road rather than looking for cops."

Surely I'm not the only one who thinks this punishment is quite excessive.

Evidently not by the posts previously made.

Haven't looked at all the other pages.

The point is that you shouldn't be sneaking a flare in anyway. The argument that if it was legal you'd be more responsible is bizarre. It's like saying "If I was allowed to do 100 in this 50 zone, I would be able to watch the road rather than looking for cops."

If little girl no want to be hit in face by the flare she should no come to game, football is for ultras only

not sure if trolling or if you are a dead set spastic

not sure if trolling or if you are a dead set spastic

Surely I'm not the only one who thinks this punishment is quite excessive.

what fines were dealt out on the weekend at the sydney derby?

Probably the standard 5k for each club.

Kinda pointless considering FFA own WSW & have paid shitloads of money to pay players at SFC so they can make the finals.

what fines were dealt out on the weekend at the sydney derby?

This is why I refuse to take my family to the dreaded Soccer because Soccer fans seem to be amazed by coloured smoke.

Grow up kids.

I don't want your inbred family at the game.

](*,) ](*,) ](*,)
I actually don't understand why you keep breathing?

It's starting to get ridiculous how much oxygen you are taking from this world.