The sooner the better

Then when a Franchise falls over there's no need to prop it up.

Consensus suggest that it's 1 fan, 1 vote

HAL is actually run on $1, 1 vote

Australia the FFA and the football public need to make a choice

The path we are on now with our National Domestic Competition, in the form of the A-League and our State Competitions in the form of the NPL, are nothing but restrictive practices designed to develop brands and revenues.
And thats all good if thats all the consensus wants. For the casual fans spectators and football consumers, the HAL really is little more than a pastime along the other lines of entertainment such as the movies, threatre , AFL and NRL.

Expansion is now talked of in terms of "markets", football markets, geographic markets, TV markets, economic viability, etc. etc.

So far the choice is the status quo, and thats fine too.

On the other hand this football consensus we now have cannot go on about a non-existent football development model of the local player. The local player is not developing to world wide standards, as we began to acheive in the recent past. The best entertainment in the HAL is not on the pitch its off the pitch with the active support. And even now the marketing gurus of the FFA and franchises are not sure they want that.
We have a soccer media that is doing the game a dis-service this article being another example, http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/blog/2014/09/24/key-successful-league-expansion .

If we really aspire to be a power football nation then we are not going about it the right way.

WIthout a true football pyramid based on promotion and relegation we will never;
- develop youth domestically to the senior international standards required to be successful on the international stage and world cups, players will only develop so far in the current domestic system
- develop football clubs on par with the best in the world the HAL franchises have the show (the match day event)but not the go (match performance)
- develop a National Team to compete at World level and by that I mean winning Asian nation Cups and finishing top 4 at the World Cup

We are labouring under a cartel system, that is centralised, rationalised and controlled to create an "equal" environment one that is anti-competitive and promotes football mediocrity.

Promotion and relegation is the only way; that the best will succceed, innovation and hardwork rewarded with promotion. The lazy and second-rate punished with relegation.

That doesn't mean promotion is based solely on the points table but it is the first assesment.

Edited by Arthur: 25/9/2014 12:53:34 PM

Edited by Arthur: 25/9/2014 12:59:56 PM

Edited by Arthur: 25/9/2014 01:15:33 PM

I went to Edensor Park on Tuesday night as a SFC fan, it was a great night, this club so steep with history, the club & land brought & build by the ethnic Croatian community.
This club produced a lot of our great socceroos, including both coaches on the sideline. We as football fans should be proud of their history as they & many clubs like them build football in this country.
The atmosphere was good the tension was there between the fans during the game as per any game between set of fans at a football game.
I have no issue with this club existing in it's current form, the color & the passion is there, however, for any innocent bystander this was an ethnic Croatian club in every sense, it would struggle to gain wider acceptance of the community. Now is this an issue, no if you accept that you will go down there hear Croatian spoken, hear Croatian songs being sung by the fans & eat Croatian food (I too come from an ethnic background & love all the variety of foods in Australia).
Now if I had Japanese background or African background or a dinky di Aussie, would I accept this or would I rather a more multi cultural team like WSW?

This is the question to all perceived mono ethnicity clubs around Australia.

Competition is such a pest!

Why do we care were the money comes from? As long as the bills are clean who gives a shit.

I was using my idiotic point to meet his idiotic point.
As you yourself mentioned UAE ownership has nothing to do with the issues in the Gulf.

Edited by robbos: 25/9/2014 10:56:56 AM

Al Qaeda is even fighting against ISIL sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.......

Tbf, most of those are there in a sort of "keep your enemies closer" sort of role :P

I'm not saying I see A-League clubs as plastic. Just explaining why some people see them that way - especially at inception. In my original out I pointed out Fury as proving some teams can survive for community interests as opposed to corporate interests.

I think you'll also find that the UAE is a part of the new coalition fighting against ISIL alongside the USA and of course Australia. Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Qatar are also a part of this coalition.

Would love to hear how one loses ones ethnic ties... Are we proposing that those of Greek ancestry, willing to work for free, be passed over in order to bring in staff of a non-Greek heritage? Or that the traditional strip be changed in order to reduce the Helenic 'vibe'?

correct, we want Australians running our clubs.

Whilst I don't agree with the worries about UAE ownership and the issues in the Gulf - I think you need to think about what you are saying... South, Knights, etc, are owned by Australians rather than foreign nationals which renders your point somewhat idiotic.

So during the Balkans wars, were you in favor of all the Balkan clubs & clubs from the same region like Greece, which would have affected Sth Melbourne, not participate, because it was not good for the game.

Not understanding your logic here. So you are saying that Central Coast Mariners is not a community club, even though they represent a region & all is welcome irrelevant of gender, religion, nationality or culture, yet a club that seems to favor just one nationality is a community club.

Don't get me wrong I went to Edensor Park on Wednesday night & understood what the ethnic Croatian community brought to football in the country & the passion they have for their club. However, having followed football in Australia for 40 years, SFC is the first local team I have followed.

same region, Arab tensions, not good for the game;)

Last time I looked UAE was not involved in the conflict.

yes but the clubs influence is extremely foreign, sheik ownership, Arab sponsorship (etihad)...with everything that's going on now in the Middle East we don't need that in our game.

I think you'll find Melbourne City FC is a registered Australian company.

You're owned by a sheik? At least South Melbourne is registered as an Australian company.

Indeed and just to cap-off, in bumping the 'Mighty Mariners' (:) ) thread, I saw it had ended with this pleasant discussion and I think this view from 'Chris V', a Northern Suburbs Sydneysider, just caps off the discussion and in no uncertain terms, reflects the wisdom of the Mariners direction - that they need to remain and keep building in their CC Locale and at their 'Home Fortress' of Bluetongue (Hopefully it's ok, me quoting these two, from the thread):



Edited by GloryPerth: 25/9/2014 03:27:41 AM

This whole A2 thing is tough.
Should it be for potential promotion/relegation or football development?
I don't see how you can say 'geographically' located and not want Adelaide (but include Cairns).

My A-League is
Melbourne
City
Sydney
West Sydney
Brisbane
Perth
Adelaide
Newcastle
Central Coast
Wellington
Canberra Athletic- 3rd Melbourne
Wollongong Wolves- 3rd Sydney
Ipswich FC- Brisbane Strikers
Auckland City

A2
1 x SA
1 x ACT
1 x NNSW
3 x Sydney
3 x VIC
3 x QLD
Sorry TAS & WA...... NO DICE
(I'd even question NNSW and perhaps have a second SA :) for a derby )
I would suggest this is a pro/rel league downwards not upwards.
The top 6 play some kind of finals. Where they are joined by WA & TAS winners

The bottom 6 playoff against the winner & teams from their original federation over 2 legs.
eg.
if the 3 sydney teams finished bottom 6, the lowest finisher would play the winner from the NPL, the 2nd lowest the 2nd place etc.
This is so you retain the geographic
- if the 3 Sydney teams finish top 6, tuff titties for the NSW NPL winner that year

I'd include all the clubs. Not pick and choose.

Or you could have a fixed league and wait for all the complaints from different clubs.

*** In this scenario the winner of a2 could play the winner of a-league at home for "The League Cup" to kick off the season.

*** By the time this happened a new FFA Cup sponsorship deal might be on the cards, so if 12 a-league teams, means hopefully a round of 32 where non hal/a2 meet. The 16 winners + 12 HAL + 4 a2 semi finalists


***** Eventually the aim would be to grow the a2 to 16 teams through sponsorship/tv deals adding
2 x WA
1 x TAS
1 x SA (or NNSW)


***** I dream of the 6 matches all to be played the same kickoff time on Saturday afternoons (so clubs don't have lighting issues). So SBS or ABC or whoever could have a match of the round plus crosses to goals ala FFA Cup.









Edited by scott21: 25/9/2014 04:38:40 AM

CCM are going nowhere. Charlesworth may not be/ is not be the best communicator. However, he is about to start the next $26million stage at Tuggerah. Sure he wants to attract more Sydney based sponsorship and fans - but the base will remain at Tuggerah and the vast majority of games will remain at CCS.

I don't know why people persist with this nonsense. No existing teams that were NSL clubs that have it have had ethnic ties will ever be admitted into the hal. I'd even go as far to say no existing teams will ever be admitted, it's not within the interest of the game to have existing teams admitted. There will only be new teams with new identities. I don't know why it's so hard for some people to understand. Also unless market dynamics and/or major population or demographic changes happen none of the teams from a city of under half a million will come into existence. From what gallop has said in the past even that will be a stretch. Get used to it, we have a numbers man in charge.

Unless South Melbourne lose their ethnic ties they can't be injected into the A league

Hobart is too small a market. Only 800 turned up for the NPL finals match. Keep the league geographically close and limit it to realistic expansion areas using short term licenses to allow for club turnover at FFA discretion.

1. Northern Fury
2. Palm Beach
3. North Sydney
4. South Sydney
5. Woolongong
6. Canberra
7. South Melbourne
8. Melbourne Knights/Geelong

Can agree with all that, although as much as I like the Idea, I'd question South Hobarts ability to step up to a national level without severe help from their State association. The Cairns suggestion was that FNQ Heat did go up, but changed their name. The existing club has strong business and local council links and are pushing for a new stadium and academy so it makes sense, I just hate the bland regional names like "Northern" "Western" "FNQ" when in this case it's a team playing in Cairns, backed by Cairns business, with players based in Cairns, it really should be called Cairns. I can't agree with the logic that you don't have a relevant name that the majority of the fans identify with like "Cairns" just because some bloke from Mareeba or Innsifail might not decide to come to one game a year.

You've (possibly deliberately?) missed my point. Just explaining why some people consider A-League teams a bit plastic. This doesn't mean the NSL, and wouldn't implicate the entire NSL. Regardless of what community clubs represented they were and are still community clubs that have the right to be upset about relegation.

i like this list, just a couple changes i'd do. i think whether ccm stay in gosford or move to north sydney will determine the fate for south. if there is a team in the north with north in its name, it would make it really tempting to bring in a south sydney side which could create a really interesting north vs south divide which would almost be as good as east and west given there is a distinguishable difference in the lifestyle of someone from chatswood/manly/ryde as opposed to someone from hurstville/sutherland/revesby

Edited by williamn: 24/9/2014 10:27:23 PM