I tend to agree, Gallop has as mentioned above 'fish where the fish are' & I think 3rd Sydney (maybe including Woolongong), 3rd Melbourne team or 2nd South East Queensland will be next 2 teams into A-League

By no regional areas do you mean only within the cities that already have teams-Sydney, Melbourne, etc.

I think people will be surprised when expansion is announced, I wouldn't be shocked if no regional areas are announced.

I can see Canberra putting a bid together with the assistance of the ACT government but I'm not sure that Wollongong and North Qld will be able to find the money needed. Gallop's motto has always been to "fish where the fish are" so I expect he will be looking for sure fire winners in more populous areas.

So, it seems the reasoned thought is that Canberra, Wollongong and North Queensland are the three obvious front runners. two of these should get the nod at the next tv deal, then I guess two more at some following point. Therefore which two will come next time around and who is the other team to join the third of them in the following inclusions? I don't know of the strengths of other bids, but the Ipswich and Geelong ideas seem rather unsubstantiated and it is hard to imagine Tasmania or others having having the financials. Gold Coast seems a no go territory and Sunshine Coast also too small. To me South Western Sydney looks the best idea. Large population, good football following etc. Is there a case for Auckland?
happy to be proven wrong!

Edited by calciopoli: 30/10/2013 05:39:57 PM

State league clubs possess their own fan base, own community ties, are clubs that run from top to bottom and have cheap, proper sized stadiums. This is cheaper and more affective than buying and making whole new McFranchises. And plus, it makes the game more interesting. I've actually preferred going to Preseason friendlies. Good cheap food made by people who love their culture and high quality football. What more can you ask for?

The expansion will stop anyway before the Cup. I reckon they would rather bring clubs up than make new ones from scratch.

I'd like to see expansion but we need to get the existing clubs viable first and then the FFA needs to have the funds to do it. What we might like to do in life and how we have to do it often don't match.

and yet you don't disagree with my point about progressing or stagnating?

I'll just assume NYL is in the costs I think and say that to run a lean A-League club with NYL team, which should be the minimum requirement for any expansion team, costs $7m pa.

Increased sponsorship will help but I still think that cost increases are going to outstrip income increases sadly. If Coopers can get re involved with AUFC that will make a big difference since at the moment they are putting money into AEC coffers and not into AUFC.

As for NYL and W-League, can't help :/ I presume that running costs of NYL are part of AUFC figures already supplied but I don't know - something to get clarified for the next lot of figures I think. W-League team is not funded at all by AUFC Pty Ltd but costs between $50 & $100k per season AFAIK. There would be others who could give a better idea, maybe hit up Danielle Warby or Ann Odong.

Thanks for the figures GA. Will the new sponsorships offset the increased match day costs? Do you have any idea of the costs of running the W-League and NYL teams there?

Here are the amounts for you from last season:

Operating loss of $1.5million
Turnover $5.38million

Gate/Memberships $2.1million income
Sponsorship $1.3million income

ACL contributed $268k net income

Football department cost $4.5million (includes 100% of salary cap)

AUFC ownership group have tipped in about $2million plus cost of Coolen settlement since take over. Must be one of the leanest running clubs in the HAL.

A very lean A-League club can run off of $7million depending on the costs linked to match days. AUFC are getting shafted this year on that front so even though they should have a higher turnover they are going to have higher costs, I wouldn't be surprised if they run at a higher loss this season.

The FFA don't have the money available to fund expansion and won't have unless the next broadcast deal that is due in 4 years time delivers it.

Completely and fundamentally disagree, the competition got stale after 4 seasons of 8 clubs, now I can guarantee you the same will happen if we leave it for more than 3 more seasons. Would be a fucking stupid idea to lose our momentum cause we were scared and wanted to consolidate, and I guarantee that's what would happen. If you're not moving forward, you're moving backwards.

The A-league does not need to expand in the near future, it needs to make sure it is a strong, robust and sustainable competition before it adds extra clubs. Ten clubs is enough for the moment.

I wasn't saying all those clubs at the same time(I was just stating some locations), for NYL i just think that they would be good to enter the NYL, 2-4 years before and build up a batch or 15-18 year olds maybe like CCM Academy in NSW NPL so for example if South coast were to be A-League bound for 2016 they should put the NYL team in now and keep the NPL Squad there exactly how CCM is either in NPL 1 or 2.
I do understand what you mean with " adding teams 50% more teams in regional areas that make up a total of 7% of the population is a really bad way to go about it" but if it's only the years just before it isn't crazy how I see it. Thats what I meant with the solid foundations. Lastly i mean it gives that little advertisement with partnerships with sponsors, staff and small numbers of fans.

http://leopoldmethod.com.au/in-search-of-blue-oceans-an-analysis-on-the-a-league-business-model-part-1/

http://leopoldmethod.com.au/in-search-of-blue-oceans-an-analysis-on-the-a-league-business-model-part-2/

What they should do is create the clubs now and put a NY-League team in for a few years before promoting half the squad to A-League, this will show the people in the local area that FFA may give them at first team soon and help grown support. 10 A-League teams with maybe 15 NYL teams setting up foundations. Add Canberra, add Tasmania, South Coast, with Geelong and Northern fury (with a team playing in NPL with adults and youth. 2-5 year with a youth team in then bring the first team add 2 teams at a time 2-3 years apart. This would result in more youth coming through to A-League.

Key points:
-Exposer of players and clubs
-Fan building
-Solid foundations
-More players developed to NY-League standards

A while ago Adelaide United published a report on last season and in it they indicated their costs to run the club totalled $7m. In an article a bit later a spokesman indicated that this was $0.5m below the average to run an A-League club. They made a $1.7m loss on this expenditure. I have been keeping my ears open for details of Wanderers income and this season they have $3m coming in from sponsors, $2.5m from the FFA, approx $3m from memberships and using last season's figures another $1.8m from merchandise. Added to this will be gate takings which could raise another $0.5m. Total is $10.8m and with that the prediction including ACL costs is to break even.

I thought these numbers might be helpful for people considering potential locations for expansion. A club needs to generate somewhere between $7m and $11m to cover expenditure.

I've just been added as an admin to this page, pm sent.

Don't worry that's definitely my opinion as well. The Wollongong Wolves have such history and are part of the sporting landscape of the region, but I'm not sure if the South Coast Football people are going to seek expansion with the Wolves or as a different team.

I am a big wanderers fan. And support united also. Go to both home games and all npl united games. And also travel away with wanderers

And as for rovers ? I just cant be bothered changing the banner

It's gotta be the Wolves for Woollongong, you can't just throw that out. Perhaps the FFA would enter into some partnership, owning shares for a while or something to get it up and running, but it has to be the Wolves, surely.

Would you support United 58 or Rovers in that case?

How about
A-league - current 10 + Canberra, South Coast, NQ, Ipswich/Sunshine Coast
2nd div - 1.npl winner(nsw), 2.npl winner (qld), 3.npl winner(Vic), 4. npl winner(SA), 5. npl winner(tas), 6. Npl winner(WA) 7.Npl winner (nnsw) 8.auckland 9.npl nsw 2nd place, 10. npl Vic 2nd place
3rd div - npl state conferences

Promotion
To a-league - promotion is via on field success and meeting certain criteria (stadium, financial, crowds, etc)
From a-league - none unless bankruptcy

From 3rd div to 2nd div - bottom two play off against the winner of their respective npl conference winner..


Easy and affordable. And can be started as soon as possible.
That's a ten team second division you

ffa should announce that their plans for the next 4 sides will come from wollongong, brisbane, canberra and victoria. and the first 2 of them will be introduced for the 2015/16 season.

and interestingly, this sort of expansion might lead to promotion of 3 npl sides (wollongong wolves, ipswich pride, geelong galaxy [who will be rebranding themselves next season] or south melbourne + new canberra franchise)

Also to add to my South Coast expansion agenda, does anybody know the average attendance for A-league preseason/community games? My guess would be < 5,000 as I can't recall many that have surpassed this figure. Wollongong has only held 2, both of which exceeded 6,000. Wollongong has also hosted a Matilda's game (which got into 4 figures) and Young Socceroos game (which got over 2,000) in the last year.


But this all means nothing if we don't have a viable bid. I would much rather another area get a team if their bid is more deserving. Would the best strategy be for the FFA to create a team and sell it when stable following the on & off field success of the Wanderers? I'm not saying this is my preferred method, just curious to see what people think.

Soooo, more people play but less people watch... What does that tell you about engagement levels within the game up there? ;)