Mooseheads

Wollongong, Canberra stage 1, hopefully not to soon, (2-3 years) allowing the season calender to be 26 rounds playing once at home and away against each club, avoiding the triple header which is sucking the life out of some fixtures personally, ideally both in at once and both provided time to develop identity and seal pre memberships like Macarthur have done 

A second Brisbane and 16th club stage 2, within 5 

Canberra are surely next in line. Theyve got a decent stadium, and its possible a new improved one soon as well. Decent population to support a team. A new untouched region that doesn't invade too much on other clubs. Decent crowds have been present in socceroos and other football matches in Canberra. Already have a W-league team. Also fairly central location for both Sydney and Melbourne clubs for away trips, with 6 matches being against Sydney/Melbourne oppisition (call me NSW/Vic bias but Victory, SFC and WSW they will bring the most away fans)

Wollongong second, great stadium, already have an NPL with some foundation set, fans turn up in respectable numbers to NPL matches and have also turned up in quality to friendlies and FFA cup matches against A-league sides. Close to Sydney but still sits separate enough as its own region. Possible that a handful of SFC down there but wouldnt intrude too much. Away trips easy for SFC, WSW, MAC and even possibly CCM and Jets. Also Canberra away trips another easy one for fans both from and too canberra.

Brisbane's second team is needed but is very hard. It needs to be distinct in a region, similar to how WSW and SFC are divided and not like City and Victory. The division however it is selected will be the initially fuel into a rivalry and Brisbane derby which could draw major crowds. It would definitely intrude on the Roar and may take a chunk of supporters but a division between the two sides may although the Roar to gain some more identity and attract new fans in return. The team could be in the south, north or in the Ipswich region west, however its decided a CBD side shouldnt be the go.

16th team is completely in the air personally. I think the options are plenty full which is a good sign for a possible range of new clubs or revamp of NPL clubs in certain regions. Gold Coast, A tassie based side, South East Melbourne/Team 11, Auckland City/Second NZ side, second WA or SA club or a team in Sydneys south. 

Canberra and Wollongong next. At the same time announce Team XI and Tasmania to come in 2 or 3 years after as long as they can commit to a minimum 12,000 rectangular stadium.  

I think Brisbane’s 3 CBD options in a closed league are Strikers, City or new franchise.

Strikers would take some Roar fans especially if Roar play in Redcliffe.

new franchise isn’t a good option.

City I think could work. But they would have to play the elitist card. This making Roar working class/everymans team, which they already are as they are the only team in Qld.

I think it would be different from MV MC. MC is linked to CFG and there are so many Liverpool etc fans so you could never have expected they would adopt MC.

Bne City wouldn’t be as big as Roar but that shouldn’t be the point either.

Logan still doesn’t have a stadium but would love Strikers playing there as Brisbane or Logan Strikers/ Logan City Strikers

• re-couple Lions and Roar 
• amalgamate Macarthur Bulls, Macarthur Rams, Marconi
• Introduce Wollongong Wolves, Canberra United, Auckland City, Adelaide City, Joondalup, South Melbourne,Brisbane Strikers, Gold Coast United,
• The creation of a new amalgamated franchise that will be called Australia Croatia that would be owned and operated by the Croatian Soccer Federation of Australia and New Zealand

Amalgamating at a national level (clubs at state level stays separate)

Canberra FC

HNK O'Connor Knights

Sydney United

South Coast United

HNK Kralj Tomislav

Hurstville ZFC

Dalmacija Sydney

HNK Edensor Park

Werrington Croatia

Gold Coast Knights

Brisbane Knights FC

Sunnyside Croatia

NK Adriatic Gold Coast

Adelaide Raiders

Whyalla Croatia

Adelaide Croatia Vukovi

Glenorchy Knights

Melbourne Knights

St Albans Saints

North Geelong Warriors

Dandenong City

FC Strathmore Split

St Albans Vukovar

Gospic Bears

NK Bunker

Wednesday Knights FC

Irymple Knights

HNK Mostar Melbourne 1980

Melbourne Tornado Zadar

Western Knights

Gwelup Croatia

Fremantle Croatia

This will be followed up with further new amalgamate clubs: Australia Hellenic, Australia Azzurri,  Indigenous Australia

During the last expansion round we had three existing Brisbane clubs put up their hands. Strikers as Brisbane United with an upgraded Perry Park, City as Brisbane City Gladiators supposedly playing at Ballymore and lastly the Western Pride in Ipswich. I can see one of these three joining the A League and the other two aspirants likely joining the NSD when it launches. 

If you were starting with a clean slate you'd divide Brisbane into three areas; Northside, Southside/Logan and West Brisbane/Ipswich. The clubs above would be easy to fit into this divided city: Strikers and City are historically tied to the Northside and Pride are obviously representing the West/Ipswich.
Whatever happens the Roar need to be the club that focuses on the Southside. Their move to build a football specific stadium at Chandler would be a good start. If the Roar still want to be around in a few decades or whenever full P&R begins they need to have locked down a legitimate home and region to call their own.  If they cannot survive some intra-city competition with a ~fifteen year head start then they deserve to be relegated to the shadow realm.

but as i stated with Australia Croatia FC this amalgamation would only be National level tier at a state/local level they stay separate 

Ideally what you need is new money going into existing clubs. e.g Wollongong Wolves in its current form couldn't play in the A League - but their bid brought in extra money and they would have been viable.

Great post

Bne City could gain domestic favor but depends if they are Gladiators or not.

nah they would be part of Australia Azzurri

Would need to happen organically. Can’t see it happening as clubs would want to retain their own identity.

Not sure where things are at with the NSD, appears to be on the back burner for the moment.
I think we all know by now that we need a viable NSD before we can introduce P&R (which probably means P&R is at least a decade away, and that's being optimistic).
Just found some interesting figures on twitter, these are attendances for the WAFL's opening round of games this year (I'm assuming this is WA's mens aussie rules, but I don't know for sure).
Anyway, these are decent numbers for a state comp in Australia's 4th largest city (during the current time).
It got me thinking, wouldn't we be happy for an NSD to be getting similar numbers consistently across a whole season?  And would that be enough to make the NSD viable?

Peel vs Perth at Rushton Park - 3,499
Subiaco vs Claremont at Leederville Oval - 2,304
Swans vs West Perth at Bassendean Oval - 2,916
South vs East Freo at Fremantle Oval - 4,002

If the NSD cannot be viable with crowds of around 4k, then that's the end of any hope of ever getting P&R.

Hard to determine just how well received a second division will be. Whether those involved in the clubs joining the competition jump onboard will be interesting to watch, but the only way I see many taking it seriously is when their club has a chance for promotion.

The is due is that a promotion and relegation model likely won’t be possible for some time after the competition gets up and running, but there could always be promotion as expansion to the top tier based on set criteria, with on and off field considerations. Could take some time to get those sitting on the fence to jump on board if that’s the case.

That's probably right.
Worth recalling that the final years of the NSL were averaging crowds of around 3k (I think?  not 100% sure)
I've always thought that that may not be a bad thing to aim for in the NSD.
If our 2nd division is matching what the NSL once got, then you'd call that a big step forward just by itself.

One major problem imo is Fox have not acknowledged NPL during their broadcasts. They focus on their “product”

Rolling finals result of matches and even goal scorers names or NPL able imo would legitimize the leagues in many viewers eyes when NPL is in season. Why wouldn’t football fans be interested in that? 

Fox struggle to acknowledge the A-League these days, let alone the NPL.

But lets be honest, I don’t really see Fox talking about the WAFL, SANFL or VFL even though they feed into the AFL system. Most broadcasters will only care about the ‘product’ in front of them that they paid to show. The rest is nothing but a sideshow they ignore.

Not the same. We have a national cup

To them it is a meaningless sideshow is my point, whether there’s an FFA Cup or NPL National Finals is irrelevant. 

Thought this was an interesting piece of info. Lucy Zelic had documents on TWG show saying Fox Sports preferred Team 11 and Southern Expansion to come in last expansion phase.

I would have like Fosters team and probably Team 11.

But this is a bit of gossip really. Fox presented a carrot to FFA to have teams in Syd and Mel tv. (Wolves miss out).

There would have been diabolical outrage if this same document came out and those two were brought in. 

So so this was FFAs choice, it still would have been with those two but the stigma of “Fox Sports chose” would live on.

By picking markets Fox has influenced the choice anyway.... and now they leave.

Team 11 was light years ahead of Western United in terms of its bid. Community engagement was a strong element of its offering.

Let’s face it, Western United’s bid was based on spin about its stadium, and the FFA jumped at the renders and concept, along with what was likely the higher license fee. 

Fox can take a back seat, of which they did, not their call on expansion and gbye Charlie after next season. For one Wollongong cannot be attached to Southern Sydney. That entity would of been St George and Illawarra amalgamated, as is in the NRL, same philosophy. This is not Rugby League, we instead have the true FootbalI. I barrack for no team btw, only the progress of the competition itself.

Completely agree, Team 11 and Macarthur were the two best, in terms of Sydney and Melbourne. Team 11 however had no stadium and no promise of stadium for next few seasons and still could be at risk without one. I know Western haven't built theres and its continuously delayed, however they had the options of Geelong and Ballarat and the FFA definitely viewed that as a greater expansion then if Team 11 came in and camped at AAMI/Marvel and possibly never managed to move out for the next 5 plus years.

(Apparently its still happening, it was listed on a government document in relationship to economic stimulus following covid, as an importance to boost jobs/economy, could mean some fast tracking hopefully and a start by the end of year as Melbourne recovers from covid)

Western United haven't amazed with there stadium selected and in terms of expanding the league, but the a-league probably saw the shorter term benefit more valuable with the decline, then a longer term benefit which may not prevent the interest and viewer decline for the short term. 

With Sydney's current displacement, Southern Expansion isnt ready yet, possibly as Sydney return further north to Allianz, the southern region may be more open to a team, especially a NSD team. Macarthur is disconnected enough that is very minimally intrudes on wanderers and provides a genuine expansion so to me is the better option. The foundation so far has been managed well and has approximately 3k paying foundation members already.

Agree that Team 11 had no stadium funding in place, but it’s still questionable that Western United do either. 

I get that Canberra have long history of football in this country, there is an excellent backer for the Capital Region fc consortium. I agree that this entity
should be team 13 to enter the A League.
Team 14 though, looking at criteria, if a must have for entry is to have a reasonably sized rectangular stadium that is up to standard, in and around Brisbane would be out.
Roar could probably strike a deal to keep playing more matches out of Redcliife. A second team might have to come out of Sunshine Coast or even Townsville due to their stadiums, which are underutilized.. Is there sufficient demand for a team from either of those parts of Qld though? Otherwise, perhaps a West Adelaide, sharing Coopers stadium or Fremantle City sharing the new stadium with Glory.

Curious to why you think having two Perth teams in HBF or two Adelaide clubs playing at Coopers is any different to having two Brisbane based teams playing out of Lang Park?

I personally believe a follow up Brisbane team is a crucial next expansion, whether is 13/14th team or one of the 15/16th teams. However a clear distinction is required between Roar and a new club. Or its highly possible you fall down a similar route with Victory and City, no clear differentiation, no clear reasoning to support either side. Sydney and Wanderers however allow for a passionate call to both sides of Sydney to whether they support and stand up for there side of the city.

A secondary Brisbane team would be brilliant in the situation there was ideal stadiums in both the north and south sides. However due to finances this doesnt exist, so another alternative may be Ipswich, or returning to using Gold Coast as an option. But Brisbane/QLD stand much further ahead in demand for another side compared to SA and WA.

I am concerned that if another nrl team comes in (Brisbane Bombers) which has been mooted, in a season or two, along with the Broncos and the Roar sharing winter space at Lang Park, that won't work. This over-use of the stadium would not be the case in SA or WA. Mind you, I personally want to see another SE Qld team like Ipswich Utd. If Roar does play more out of Redcliffe, they can be perceived as more a north team.
I just don't see a derby developing between Roar vs Gold Coast, in a massive stadium like Robina or Lang Park even.

ACT, has a population a tad over 400K, they have league & Union sides...further the AFL play the Great Waste of Space their a bit...

While I have no real objection to a Canberra side, I don't share what appears to be the accepted wisdom that its a shoe in to be a success.

They will have to work extremely hard.

I am amazed at times how a team or an idea will pick up and seemingly valid questions just are not asked.