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Enzo Bearzot
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tsf - 5 Jul 2022 9:36 PM
Enzo Bearzot - 5 Jul 2022 7:18 PM

Have you seen Peter Dutton's investment portfolio? A former thick and useless cop. 

Are you talking about his real estate?.  Not uncommon in the ranks of the police force actually.  My understanding is that he started young, and flipped multiple PPOR properties so avoided CGT.  In fact an old high school buddy is a Fed cop and owns 3 rentals plus his own PPOR.  Not an intellectual but not stupid either. 

For me the standouts are to Shorten and Plibersek.  Plibersek moved straight out of Uni to a staffers role for a Minister and has never had a job outside politics all her life.  Shorten worked for the union and then Labor party.  Never really outside of politics.  Check their investment portfolio's out.  Not bad for a child of immigrants who doesn't know where "this term aspiration" comes from....

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Enzo Bearzot - 5 Jul 2022 7:18 PM
Why else would anyone go into politics? LOL.


Have you seen Peter Dutton's investment portfolio? A former thick and useless cop. 

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Why else would anyone go into politics? LOL.

The problem with politics is that the media has polarized public opinion by giving a platform to those on the extremes to set the narrative.  Rarely are issues as black and white as is presented.  Everyone lies and causes outrage from the opposition.  Great for the media.

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If that’s how laws worked the conservatives in US would not advocate for people to have the weapons they do. 

It’s all about money and power over groups. Nothing more nothing less. 

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tsf - 5 Jul 2022 5:11 PM
Enzo Bearzot - 5 Jul 2022 4:37 PM

What I don't understand is there is so much argument for US conservatives that the Government should stay out of our lives.....but government should also have complete Autonomy over bodies?


It depends. 

Conservatism doesn't advocate for a lawless society.  Conservatives also accept that laws by their very nature impinge on our lives.  Conservatives also accept its necessary for someone to make those laws and to also enforce them.  Conservatives accept that that is the job of government.  As a result government can't stay out of our lives in a lawful society.

The question them moves to how much should government laws impinge on our lives?

Laws exist as to who can have an abortion, when and who can perform it.  These laws try to balance the rights, health, safety and futures of mother, foetus/baby and practitioners with the ethical and moral expectations of the broader society. Nothing wrong with that.

Edited
2 Years Ago by Enzo Bearzot
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Munrubenmuz - 5 Jul 2022 4:54 PM
Enzo Bearzot - 5 Jul 2022 4:28 PM

Yeah I agree with all that.  Emphasis on 'reasonable'. 

It's when unreasonable clowns like Rusty bring up 3rd trimester abortions like they're something that happens 9 times out of ten rather than less than 1 out of 100 where the argument gets silly.

I'm pretty sure it'd be a horrific experience all round having to terminate a baby at 8 months and not something that would happen unless there were very specific circumstances.

In trying to understand it, it seems once again the extremes have hijacked an issue.  There are circumstances where late term abortions are ethically, morally and medically acceptable.  Most are not.  The issue-as far as I understand it- is that the laws were being broadened and made more vague, and  with that some of the safeguards removed. The loudest proponents were from extreme feminist backgrounds who presented it as a women's rights issue and everyone else should just mind their own business.  The opposing extreme presented it as legalized infanticide.  The truth lies in the middle.  The hard part is writing laws that are broaden enough without being meaningless.

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tsf - 5 Jul 2022 3:35 PM
sydneyfc1987 - 5 Jul 2022 8:43 AM

Totally. Just black or white stance, I swear Rusty must run to Breitbart to see the position he must take on every issue. 

Honestly I came into this thread seeing he'd posted and already knew exactly what he'd be arguing before I had read anything. 

Must be nice and easy having all of your opinions prefabricated for you. 

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Enzo Bearzot - 5 Jul 2022 4:37 PM
tsf - 5 Jul 2022 3:38 PM

Well that's a loaded question: men can't get pregnant, they can't have another human gestate inside them, there is no other condition whereby the rights of that other human  become relevant so of course there isn't a similar law because its not needed.

No-one is advocating for women to have tubal ligation either.

What I don't understand is there is so much argument for US conservatives that the Government should stay out of our lives.....but government should also have complete Autonomy over bodies?


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Enzo Bearzot - 5 Jul 2022 4:28 PM
Munrubenmuz - 5 Jul 2022 1:05 PM

It could be even higher than 1 in 3 . That number can't be explained by things like the failure rates of contraceptives, life-threatening pregnancies or deformed or dead foetuses, pregnant mothers with cancer, rapes(these are actual examples given during senate hearings to expand abortion rights on demand). 

Its many orders of magnitude different.

I don't think most people, men or women, are opposed to abortion per se.  Likewise I doubt most are in favour of abortion on demand.  Reasonable people recognize that- at some point in the pregnancy-there are two lives whose rights and future is at stake because that's the nature of the condition of pregnancy.

So then the argument moves to *when* do the rights of the baby over-ride the rights of the mother?  The answer is "It depends".  The answer isn't 'Never".



Yeah I agree with all that.  Emphasis on 'reasonable'. 

It's when unreasonable clowns like Rusty bring up 3rd trimester abortions like they're something that happens 9 times out of ten rather than less than 1 out of 100 where the argument gets silly.

I'm pretty sure it'd be a horrific experience all round having to terminate a baby at 8 months and not something that would happen unless there were very specific circumstances.


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Edited
2 Years Ago by Munrubenmuz
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tsf - 5 Jul 2022 3:38 PM
Munrubenmuz - 5 Jul 2022 10:19 AM

Someone said to Kavanaugh, if he can name any law that is like this over male bodies. He just drowned.

I am not sure why they dont just legislate men must get vasectomies judging by their logic. Seems to be the same outcome, less problems and potential for long term disaster.

Imagine the shit storm.

Well that's a loaded question: men can't get pregnant, they can't have another human gestate inside them, there is no other condition whereby the rights of that other human  become relevant so of course there isn't a similar law because its not needed.

No-one is advocating for women to have tubal ligation either.

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Munrubenmuz - 5 Jul 2022 1:05 PM
Enzo Bearzot - 5 Jul 2022 9:06 AM

I find it difficult to believe that women who vote National or Liberal are all carte blanche opposed to abortion. Similarly I doubt many of said voters would not hold feminist ideals about equality.

I have read as many as 1 in 3 women have had an abortion in Australia. Even if were 1 in 5 or 1 in 6 or even 1 in 10 that is still a shitload of woman accessing abortion. It's fairly unlikely they're all Green and Labour party apparatchiks.

For me it comes down to this. You shouldn't be forced to have a baby if you don't want to. 



It could be even higher than 1 in 3 . That number can't be explained by things like the failure rates of contraceptives, life-threatening pregnancies or deformed or dead foetuses, pregnant mothers with cancer, rapes(these are actual examples given during senate hearings to expand abortion rights on demand). 

Its many orders of magnitude different.

I don't think most people, men or women, are opposed to abortion per se.  Likewise I doubt most are in favour of abortion on demand.  Reasonable people recognize that- at some point in the pregnancy-there are two lives whose rights and future is at stake because that's the nature of the condition of pregnancy.

So then the argument moves to *when* do the rights of the baby over-ride the rights of the mother?  The answer is "It depends".  The answer isn't 'Never".



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Munrubenmuz - 5 Jul 2022 10:19 AM
Guaranteed if men got pregnant not only would abortion be legal it'd be free.

Someone said to Kavanaugh, if he can name any law that is like this over male bodies. He just drowned.

I am not sure why they dont just legislate men must get vasectomies judging by their logic. Seems to be the same outcome, less problems and potential for long term disaster.

Imagine the shit storm.
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sydneyfc1987 - 5 Jul 2022 8:43 AM
Thanks to sky news we have "everything has to be left vs right" morons like rusty now trying to turn abortion into a partisan issue in Australia when it never really has been.

Fuck off honestly.

Totally. Just black or white stance, I swear Rusty must run to Breitbart to see the position he must take on every issue. 
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Enzo Bearzot - 5 Jul 2022 9:06 AM
sydneyfc1987 - 5 Jul 2022 8:43 AM

Well, a few days ago  in Melbourne we had pro-abortion activists marching and behaving as if they were in the US, where it IS a partisan issue.

And  you can't say that it isn't a political issue, because it is.  Unfortunately this issue like others in recent time has been hijacked by far Left feminist nutjobs, when most women are not like that and don't share their extreme views on late term abortion.

 As for "My Body, My Choice",  its not talked about much, but how many women would have kept the baby but didn't because their boyfriend was against it.  Quite a lot I'd say.  "My body my choice"? Well, no, not quite,  for lots of reasons.


I find it difficult to believe that women who vote National or Liberal are all carte blanche opposed to abortion. Similarly I doubt many of said voters would not hold feminist ideals about equality.

I have read as many as 1 in 3 women have had an abortion in Australia. Even if were 1 in 5 or 1 in 6 or even 1 in 10 that is still a shitload of woman accessing abortion. It's fairly unlikely they're all Green and Labour party apparatchiks.

For me it comes down to this. You shouldn't be forced to have a baby if you don't want to. 





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Enzo Bearzot - 5 Jul 2022 11:09 AM
Munrubenmuz - 5 Jul 2022 10:19 AM

It is legal.  As for free, depending on the circumstances, it can be.

I mean decades ago. Up until last year you could get an abortion in NSW but it was technically illegal. Easy to circumvent but still illegal.


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Munrubenmuz - 5 Jul 2022 10:19 AM
Guaranteed if men got pregnant not only would abortion be legal it'd be free.

It is legal.  As for free, depending on the circumstances, it can be.

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Guaranteed if men got pregnant not only would abortion be legal it'd be free.


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sydneyfc1987 - 5 Jul 2022 8:43 AM
Thanks to sky news we have "everything has to be left vs right" morons like rusty now trying to turn abortion into a partisan issue in Australia when it never really has been.

Fuck off honestly.

Well, a few days ago  in Melbourne we had pro-abortion activists marching and behaving as if they were in the US, where it IS a partisan issue.

And  you can't say that it isn't a political issue, because it is.  Unfortunately this issue like others in recent time has been hijacked by far Left feminist nutjobs, when most women are not like that and don't share their extreme views on late term abortion.

 As for "My Body, My Choice",  its not talked about much, but how many women would have kept the baby but didn't because their boyfriend was against it.  Quite a lot I'd say.  "My body my choice"? Well, no, not quite,  for lots of reasons.




Edited
2 Years Ago by Enzo Bearzot
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Thanks to sky news we have "everything has to be left vs right" morons like rusty now trying to turn abortion into a partisan issue in Australia when it never really has been.

Fuck off honestly.

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Enzo Bearzot - 4 Jul 2022 9:52 AM
That's one case in the 900,000 aborted annually in the US. Its an unfortunate edge case that isn't representative of  the issue at large. 

 Many US States would allow that abortion.  The people of that particular State can now vote to change their laws, pretty much the same as it is in Australia.

One case in less than a week - this will not be isolated, Watch how many tragic stories will unfold. 

But hey cool, let the kid die or have a child at ten. 
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Munrubenmuz - 4 Jul 2022 2:02 PM
Enzo Bearzot - 4 Jul 2022 10:12 AM

The weird thing about regulations in the US and the lack thereof is that they constantly bring up the 2nd amendment where it specifically mentions a 'well regulated' militia.

Surely when they wrote into the amendment 'well regulated' they actual meant 'well regulated'/regulations.




The purpose of the second amendment was to ensure that citizens could take arms in the defense of the nation, be that against a foreign invader or even their own tyrannical government.  Its the latter that muddies the meaning of "well-regulated": how can the citizens acquire the guns to over-throw a tyrannical government if the same government can enact laws or regulations that restrict or prohibit access to guns for citizens.  On the other hand, it doesn't mean all citizens have an  unfettered entitlement to carry guns either.  The question is where exactly that line is.

Edited
2 Years Ago by Enzo Bearzot
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Enzo Bearzot - 4 Jul 2022 10:12 AM
sydneyfc1987 - 4 Jul 2022 10:10 AM


The country is awash with guns.  The gun control horse bolted a long time ago

The weird thing about regulations in the US and the lack thereof is that they constantly bring up the 2nd amendment where it specifically mentions a 'well regulated' militia.

Surely when they wrote into the amendment 'well regulated' they actual meant 'well regulated'/regulations.





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Enzo Bearzot - 4 Jul 2022 10:12 AM
sydneyfc1987 - 4 Jul 2022 10:10 AM


The country is awash with guns.  The gun control horse bolted a long time ago

A gun buyback wouldn't work either. The US is a failed state.


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sydneyfc1987 - 4 Jul 2022 10:10 AM
tsf - 4 Jul 2022 9:12 AM

And oppose any form of gun control that would save the lives of innocents.

Selective morality at its best.


The country is awash with guns.  The gun control horse bolted a long time ago

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tsf - 4 Jul 2022 9:12 AM
From the people who support the death penalty as well.



And oppose any form of gun control that would save the lives of innocents.

Selective morality at its best.

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tsf - 4 Jul 2022 8:48 AM
Monoethnic Social Club - 4 Jul 2022 12:09 AM

They wouldnt let her get it in her state in the end. 

Welcome to America - next they'll be stoning them in the town square. 

This is week one. Imagine how much worse it's going to get. 
[/quote]

The bolded are two different things.

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Munrubenmuz - 29 Jun 2022 9:25 AM
roosty - 28 Jun 2022 7:04 PM

Did you know if a woman takes the mini pill there is a 7% chance of conceiving? That's if you do everything right. Higher if you are vomiting or have gastro or something or just happened to take it a few hours too late one day.

Your solution to a woman who gets inadvertently pregnant despite taking precautions?


Solutiions already exist and would depend on the specific circumstances.

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That's one case in the 900,000 aborted annually in the US. Its an unfortunate edge case that isn't representative of  the issue at large. 

 Many US States would allow that abortion.  The people of that particular State can now vote to change their laws, pretty much the same as it is in Australia.

Edited
2 Years Ago by Enzo Bearzot
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this is the republicans response:\

"Bash asked if the girl should have to have a “child.”

Noem replied, “Every single life — every single life is precious."

So they want 10 year old rape victoms to have kids. Despite the fact it could kill the kid. Every life is precious? what? 

From the people who support the death penalty as well.




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Monoethnic Social Club - 4 Jul 2022 12:09 AM
tsf - 2 Jul 2022 10:55 PM

Holy Farkin Shit!,!!!!!! That's obscene on so  many levels.
[/quote]

They wouldnt let her get it in her state in the end. 

Welcome to America - next they'll be stoning them in the town square. 

This is week one. Imagine how much worse it's going to get. 
GO


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