Can someone please explain to me why the NPL is working in other states but not Vic..


What do you think about the FourFourTwo article FFV press on despite NPL crisis?
FOOTBALL Federation Victoria denies the roll-out of its National Premier League model is on the brink of collapse despite claims the dispute is headed for the courts.

Have your say.

IMO it is fantastic for Townsville. Got rid of some of the rot(not all) and improved the style of play.

It would appear at face value that the FFV are acting with the support of the FFA.

“This is the tragic point of all this…they are going to fight the people who pay their wages.”

Just because you pay their wages doesn't mean you are automatically in the right.

-PB

Not so sure it's been a success in QLD

Not working in seq. imo

This, those that want it to work will make it happen.



I get the feeling this club displays all the symptoms of narcissim.

FFA Meeting with smfc this morning
Just thought that the FFV should be aware of this

should add that other VPL clubs will also be at the meeting

Also smfc chairman was on SEN Radio this morning

Not looking good for the FFV

Vic model is an anomaly to the NCR and to what the other states have executed

Interesting article with extra info at the roar. comments with links posted to further info as well:

Edit: sorry we can't post links to that website

Edited by Joffa: 31/7/2013 11:26:12 AM

And of course the Leopold Method has been right on this issue;

http://leopoldmethod.com.au/show-me-the-money/

They have done well to not only capture the issues but also the mood.

http://www.surfcoasttimes.com.au/news/community/2013/07/30/council-cools-on-nplv-bid-by-clubs/#.UfdMjqw8k98

Interesting!

http://www.parksleisure.com.au/documents/item/2016

Then the football in Victoria must be full of narcissists! On reading the parks leisure document, an independant association representing council recreational departments, one can only say that there are issues of competancy at the FFV. At the very least personal ideology is getting in the way of good policy.

You actually believe the FFA are meeting without the FFV's knowledge, seriously delusional

I think most of you on here are delusional.

1 of 2 things is going to happen.

They will go ahead with this, but will be stopped once the board is kicked out.

They will change the criteria paving the way for clubs to embrace NPLV, and the board will still be kicked out.

:-({|=

I don't think any of us can say with any certainty how this is going to be resolved, certainly there has been a breakdown in communication. One would hope in the interest of all parties this can be resolved as amicably as possible, one way or the other.

Edited by Joffa: 31/7/2013 12:48:47 PM

NPL victoria without VPL clubs except for richmond would be a complete joke

I think, just like the formation of WSW was successful, it was done with communication. Lets say FFA have a plan, which they believe is in the best interests of Australian Football (but not in the best interests of Victorian Football financially), they need to communicate with Victorian football why it is in Australia's best interests (eg to help players progress to A-League level ?). Maybe the formation of WSW wasn't seen as beneficial to Marconi in the short term, but now in the long term we can see it has been a boom to make Football Australia's number 1 game and therefore Marconi too. FFA does seem to want / make Football grow too fast, which may sometimes not be the right thing. I read a book on management which said as a manager (FFA) don't make changes too fast, also communicate changes and the reasoning. Perhaps FFA isn't communicating the reasons why and perhaps they need to make changes slower ? When you make changes too fast things can collapse or you have a rebellion ?

What are you on about mate? Do you even know what the issues are?

Joffa, I can tell you how it will end. Without the current FFV board. \:d/

Communicate the fact that NONE of these clubs have support apart from a few. Would've been a shambles if it had of gone ahead.

Over 30 clubs put on a united front, those clubs appoint representatives to handle the media, and one of those representatives is from SMFC. Why is this narcissism? I would say it's professionalism.

Worth noting that the 30 clubs have now been joined by several more. The FFV officially no longer have enough applicants to set up a league next season.

Those who don't understand what is going on down here in Victoria need to take note of a very important factor - namely, ALL of the clubs have indicated that they would be happy with an NPL set up on the same basis as in NSW. It's not change they fear, they encourage it - they can all see the benefits of following the FFA's competition review... It's the FFV's rigid and unworkable structure that they are objecting to.

It's getting to the stage where I think for the outsiders ALL of the different parties in Victoria look like a bunch of idiots and we are sick of waiting for everyone to get their crap in order.

Just when you think that football is progressing, out of the closet come the retrospective, no progressive anachronisms that are not going to give up their little power rush in their local little fifedom. When are these human hurdles going to get the message that it's a strategic approach to football in this country now. It's for the good of the game, not for the good of the personal position and their personal head-rush that so-called football power brings. I say bugger em' if they don't want to get with the program, leave em out of the program and watch how fast their club shrivels up when the talent goes to the national program clubs. People like this make me sick. They talk about bankruptcy, Sth Melbourne is a big club and I reckon they have some wealthy backers. Prove how good your club is by taking on the best, not spitting the dummy in fear that you might get done a good club from NSW, QLD or Sth Aust.

Can someone explain to me what the clubs don't like, the fact there will be regional clubs??? Also how is this model any different to what Queensland have set up?

I believe that these are the criteria the Victorian clubs

http://www.footballfedvic.com.au/fileadmin/user_upload/Competitions/NCR/NPLV_Part_2_Participation_Criteria.pdf

This is what they are objecting to.

omg you've got no clue

50 grand joying fee is not in the realms of impossibility for a club as big as Sth Melbourne surely!! Everything else seems sensible and a solid business plan. Audits, transparency and accurate recordkeeping are required under law(something that should already be in place)......Cant seem to see what the problem is but maybe I am missing something?

I think for the Outsiders they are bringing their own prejudices to the situation and are making comments based through the spectacles of that prejudice.

When reputable blogs/reporters are presenting the issue in a non-biased way that makes the FFV's position look poorly, when council documentation and minutes does the same, when an association representing councils recreation bodies has reacted enough to not support the NPLV publicly, when an accountant presents a document that shows clubs making losses of over $100K based on the available data as supplied by the FFV.

What does that say about those making comments against the clubs on this forum regarding the NPL process? ANd those presenting an FFV can do no wrong approach because they believe believe the FFA is in charge.

Is it not Joe Gorman presenting the arguement that the FFA naturally has left the FFV alone to do the right thing locally, but are they? Do they have the capability? Are they running an agenda seperate to the FFA's intention? Is the FFA reluctant to interfere in a local issue?

All valid questions yet so easily dismissed by somne as they try to fit the world into a black and white forumala. The problem is there is a lot of grey out there.



Edited by Arthur: 31/7/2013 03:18:09 PM

Well enlighten me Decazz, NSW football was the biggest bunfight this side of the black stump. QLD is getting sorted If they can get it sorted and begin to progress why can't Victoria.

If you havent bothered to do any reading on the topic then dont bother posting on it either.

Typical attitude from most - "I dont like certain clubs so when something goes wrong it MUST be the clubs' fault"

:roll:

The fact that you've picked out the 50k as something to write about demonstrates just how little you know about the whole situation. The clubs have already stated that the 50k isn't an issue as it's about the same as what they already pay

I havent read too many objections to the audits/transparency/recordkeeping either.

I suggest you actually do some reading on what the sticking points are and ask yourself how 30+ clubs who could never agree on anything prior to this have suddenly found common ground. Ask yourself why numerous councils have objected. Ask yourself why an independant body has made a number of objections. When you've actually done some reading, then feel free to come back and make some informed posts

If you look at the pdf'd criteria is pretty straight forward. What I want to know is what is getting in the way of progression. Is it politics, why is there an objection? what part of the criteria is unreasonable for the clubs. I am for the progression of football in this country and have been heavily involved in NSW football for nearly 40 years. Is it wrong to not want to see the days of the NSL return? Why will Sydney Croatia and Decazz not comment? Is it an "in-house" situation? Why is not acceptable to discuss the situation?, you might just win an extra ally or two!

As has been stated several times...many of the objecting clubs (which includes all VPL clubs except Richmond) have stated that they completely accept the NCR and the model of the NPL which has been implemented in NSW. The model being proposed in Victoria has been found to be financially unviable (clubs could be leaking over $100,000 a season) and inconsistent to those implemented elsewhere.
Everyone down here knows that FFV are a joke, they are not listening to the clubs concerns as other federations have done when implementing the NCR's recommendations....many clubs have stated that the FFV's approach is very rigid and dictatorial.
I dont want to days of the NSL to return either but these clubs are basically going to fade into insignificance or die under the model proposed

Ok....this extract from Goal Weekly.....Clubs this year, more than any other, have felt a distinct lack of service over any other year. Well, now you know why - we are financing them to introduce a structure that is going to kill our heritage, our future and everything associated with it. Clubs don't even get their results in the paper on a Monday morning anymore, yet some obscure table tennis league played at Coburg Pools across the road from Pentridge can get a full results listing.


Let's call a spade a spade. The FFV is inept. They are running the game in the interests of the FFV (commercial interests) and not in the interests of the game as a participation sport and another key 'stakeholder' they have forgotten about as a spectator sport. Had a look at SportingPulse recently? Or at the FFV email signatures? Both have had major edits to include an advertisement, yes a shameless plug – Get your NPLV application done before the 31st of this month! Shameful.

It is not a coincidence that crowds have declined dramatically in the last 7-8 years. The FFV in all its cunning, got through the biggest constitutional reform ever seen in Victoria where all the bigger (read: majority vote holding) Victorian clubs were asleep at the wheel and signed over all of their voting rights to the 'faceless ones', the zone representatives and chairmen of five standing committees. It was from here that they did and continue to do what they please. Exorbitant fines, concentrating on peripheral issues, being in competition with clubs these are only the small issues that every fan who has turned away from the FFV has felt on their own skin. Whether they will return is another issue, but the fact is that the FFV have a track record for being out of touch.

This brings us to our next point. Upon successful entry the applicant will have to sign a licence agreement. They have set themselves up as the organisation that gives out licences, meaning that they can just as easily take them away. That is the legal premise of a licence over a lease or affiliation agreement. The licence period has been listed as three years without promotion and relegation. This flies in the face of healthy competition and breeds mediocrity. Don't forget to nominate your three 'preferred' playing names (club/identity) to the FFV for ratification in your NPLV submission.

This is seriously beyond a joke and I haven't even touched on other contentious issues such as the Player Points System (PPS), recruitment zoning and intellectual property rights demarcation between the competition and clubs.

Without getting into legalities, there are a lot of similarities here to EPL. The rights, the rules, the business standards, the licenses are set and owned by the FA. The clubs comply for the good of the game and the understanding that the structure exists to generate funds to grow the game. Yes, Victoria is not on the same scale, but the same basic business process is in place. In favour of the clubs it is a two way street and the FFV's role is to think of the clubs, the supporters and the players first and foremost. This has been displayed as a success by FFA and the A-League. Yes, the clubs need to have input but in the end there has to be a governing body

Also this will give you a better understanding of the clubs concerns:
http://leopoldmethod.com.au/in-search-of-perfection-p1/

Or you could read any of the media releases that clubs have put out.

For example this is one by Northcote

NORTHCOTE CITY PRESS RELEASE

Northcote City FC
31st Of July 2013
Media Release

After undertaking an exhaustive due diligence in relation to the National Premier Leagues – Victoria the Executive committee would like to advise as follows:

Northcote City FC will not submit an application due to the following reasons:

• Massive risks financially, we will not compromise the future existence of our club by trading at massive losses during the NPLV
• Abrogation of responsibilities by the FFV on to the clubs in underpinning the operation of the competition
• The FFV model differing totally from that advertised by the FFA National Competition Review recommendations on the FFA website
• Poor implementation & consultation process of the FFV
• Lack of any marketing plan for the NPLV to attract sponsorship
• Massive concern on the lack of direction for junior football particularly in regard to not allowing NPLV club to operate SSF or development squads in each age group
• The FFV Board’s complete lack of fundamental understanding that a club is built from the ground up, be it elite, development or community based.

We would like to thank the Darebin City Council & the Management of the Football Federation Victoria for the work undertaken in assisting in the due diligence process.

Yours in football
Peter Kotsiris
Club President
Northcote City FC

It's pretty straighforward. The clubs are more or less arguing the following.


That the FFV's model is unsustainable.
That the FFV is trying to shoehorn a failed former set of programmes into the FFA's NPL framework.
That the consultation process has been a sham.


The clubs that are against this do not fall easily into the 'NSL bitter' category that some have wanted to out on them. They include such clubs, yes. But they also include non-NSL clubs, clubs that many woild call non-ethnic, and even regional groups.

These are clubs who have worked with the FFV to try and get the NPL to a stage where it would work in Victoria, and in some cases had already begun implementing elements of the NPL recommendations in preparation for the licensing process.

Right, so there are a few key holes in your theory:
1. The EPL is completely seperate to the FA. The FA does not own the rights to any licenses, as it is not a licensed league. The EPL is owned by the clubs, not the other way around. Using the EPL as an example is completely pointless as it's basically the opposite of how the NPL in Victoria will be set up. The clubs all have equal voting powers, they have a say in how things operate, in how funds are distributed etc. None of that is part of the NPL-V proposal.
2. The EPL generates massive amounts of money through TV rights and other avenues. Clubs want to be in the EPL because they know that the opportunities it presents are endless. They know that there are people working at the top who WILL bring in money to their club, whose aim is to find new revenue streams and increase existing ones. People who work for the league, on behalf of the clubs. Agian, none of that is part of the NPL-V proposal
3. The people running the EPL have shown over the last 20 years that they know what they're doing, that they're capable of achieving results. The FFV has not shown that to Victorian clubs in the last 5/10 years. In fact, it has shown the exact opposite
4. The 'success' of the FFA and the A-League has no bearing on the FFV or the VPL, nor is it a predictor of how the NPL-V will pan out.

I have read through all the article and I still can't see any argument against the FFV NPL model. All I see is gobbledegook arguments "Abrogation of responsibilities by the FFV on to the clubs in underpinning the operation of the competition" err thanks for that Northcote. Lack of consultation (the oldest whinge when you don't have much of an argument). The guts of it really is that the moaning Premier League clubs are too lazy to get out their and win sponsorships and turnaround the unfriendly atmosphere at most games to increase gate $s, rather they are happy to keep robbing kids with extortionate fees that then goes straight into male player's pockets.
I saw one comment here about how it was the FFV's fault that attendances werre declining...give me a break. What about the unfriendly atmosphere at most premier league games. Who would take their family there?
It's time for a change and the FFV should be congratulated on a great structure that looks ahead into the future.

http://www.parksleisure.com.au/documents/item/2016

And you're job title at the FFV is?

Edited by Arthur: 31/7/2013 08:22:42 PM

"General view consultation process not carried out properly" Hogwash. It went to long. They are still consulting and should have stopped 6 months ago.

The NPL will have a positive impact on local comps in the longer term when you sit down and work it through. This is a nonsense argument.

The NPL will drive greater investment on facilities, if clubs understand how you actually win funding.

The high ongoing costs are a bit of an issue but not because of the license fee, which is pretty much on a par with what we pay now, more because of the costs of coaching. But isn't investment in coaching exactly what we need?

"Concern for the top heavy framework of the NPLV." Errr the current Premier League system isn't top heavy then??

"The need for council approvals" If you can't get the council to back you in this process, then your relationship with council is terrible and you need to understand how you build good relationships with government and what this is based on.

"Short time frame for expression of interest" Ohh my God. That's the sort of argument I'm talking about.

Wrong buddy. Never worked for the FFV. Don't get too paranoid. Just address the arguments.

Any chance the below are amongst the main sticking points....


. Teams
An Applicant must seek to enter the following teams in the NPLV:

Boys U12 Mandatory
Boys U13 Mandatory
Boys U14 Mandatory
Boys U15 Mandatory
Boys U16 Mandatory
Boys U18 Mandatory
Boys U20 Mandatory
Boys Open Mandatory

Girls Under 13 Mandatory
Girls under 15 Mandatory
Girls Under 18 Mandatory
Girls Open Mandatory

An Applicant may only apply for one team per age group


Note: Junior registration/playing fees for 2014 to be charged by a successful Applicant for players under 18 years of age must not exceed $1,700 plus GST. A successful Applicant must not charge for any ‘internal academy’ or other training or playing services over and above this amount.

And the rules around player agents/academies....
Player Agents
The Applicant must submit with the application, a Statutory Declaration by a Director or Committee member confirming the existence and terms of any contractual, financial or other relationship between the Applicant and a Player Agent or between a Player Agent and any third party on behalf of the Applicant.
Private Academies – the Directors of the Applicant must submit with the application and on an annual basis a Statutory Declaration:
a) which confirms that the Applicant does not have any contractual, financial or other relationships with a Private Academy and
b) which set out the existence and terms of any contractual, financial or other relationships between any of the Applicant’s office bearers, employees, volunteers, servants or agents with a Private Academy.
To avoid doubt such a relationship will exist in any of the following circumstance (which is not an exhaustive list):
An Applicant or any person on its behalf (whether directly or indirectly) engaging a Private Academy to deliver training of an Applicant’s team or teams whether for reward or otherwise
An Applicant engaging a Private Academy to supplement training of an Applicant’s team or teams whether for reward or otherwise
An Applicant engaging a Private Academy to deliver holiday or other clinics to the Applicant’s players whether for reward or otherwise
A Private Academy sponsoring an Applicant or any of its players
The Applicant, whether directly or indirectly, endorses or otherwise recommends or refers players to a Private Academy


http://www.footballfedvic.com.au/fileadmin/user_upload/Competitions/NCR/NPLV_Part_2_Participation_Criteria.pdf

Are you Mario in disguise ?

Can't see what the problem with any of that? We can easily fill all these requirements. Will be a really fun club to run, and will be great for our whole region.

Who is Mario. Mario Malarno was a great wrestler...so that identifies the vintage if you are not too wet behind the ears.

But seriously mate, of the big slab of text you just pasted, which one is actually a problem for you. Our application, which we have just finished, had no problem with any of this. I really do think it is a great structure.

Glad you call it structure
I call rubble which is what happens to a structure after it collapses

I'm curious about this 'unfriendly atmosphere' - I've been to games at most VPL grounds and I've never felt the atmosphere was any less friendly than at an A-League match.

I've sat bang in between Melbourne Knights and South Melbourne fans without any fear for my safety, similarly at the Oakleigh vs South Melbourne finals game a couple of years ago I was comfortable and happy to walk right around the ground chatting with supporters of both clubs about how the game was going. Dandenong, home of villains and thugs (apparently) never gave me any worries, nor Springvale, Heidelberg, etc.

This beat up about unfriendly and/or unwelcome clubs - I'm convinced it's a case of beauty being in the eye of the beholder - because I've never met anyone face-to-face who's been able to say they went to a VPL game and felt unwelcome or in any way afraid.

Has the Player Points System been applied in other states? From my reading I would have thought that would have been one of the biggest bones of contention (making the NPLV a youth league in all but name instead of focusing on creating a league for fans to watch and support) but I haven't seen much about it of late.

It has in NSW. I believe it's 280 this season and will gradually be reduced to 200

Yes, it has. In Victoria one of the concessions won was to start at 275 I think, and gradually work their way down over three seasons to 200.

Which club are you a part of? Or is it a consortium?

I can only laugh now, when i first said the FFV NPL model was a joke most of you arked up at me. What do you think now when most clubs in Victoria have realized it too. All you guys on this forum ( you know who you are ) should all shut the F.U.C.K up next time i say somethings wrong. My advise to the whole board except Kimon as he was only recently appointed, is for all of you to RESIGN. I loved all the comments from all of you who thought it was the best thing since sliced bread. hahahahaha

Well it was, until FFV messed it up.

-PB

He's right!! NPLV = Unsliced bread loaf