He's right!! NPLV = Unsliced bread loaf

Well it was, until FFV messed it up.

-PB

I can only laugh now, when i first said the FFV NPL model was a joke most of you arked up at me. What do you think now when most clubs in Victoria have realized it too. All you guys on this forum ( you know who you are ) should all shut the F.U.C.K up next time i say somethings wrong. My advise to the whole board except Kimon as he was only recently appointed, is for all of you to RESIGN. I loved all the comments from all of you who thought it was the best thing since sliced bread. hahahahaha

Which club are you a part of? Or is it a consortium?

Yes, it has. In Victoria one of the concessions won was to start at 275 I think, and gradually work their way down over three seasons to 200.

It has in NSW. I believe it's 280 this season and will gradually be reduced to 200

Has the Player Points System been applied in other states? From my reading I would have thought that would have been one of the biggest bones of contention (making the NPLV a youth league in all but name instead of focusing on creating a league for fans to watch and support) but I haven't seen much about it of late.

I'm curious about this 'unfriendly atmosphere' - I've been to games at most VPL grounds and I've never felt the atmosphere was any less friendly than at an A-League match.

I've sat bang in between Melbourne Knights and South Melbourne fans without any fear for my safety, similarly at the Oakleigh vs South Melbourne finals game a couple of years ago I was comfortable and happy to walk right around the ground chatting with supporters of both clubs about how the game was going. Dandenong, home of villains and thugs (apparently) never gave me any worries, nor Springvale, Heidelberg, etc.

This beat up about unfriendly and/or unwelcome clubs - I'm convinced it's a case of beauty being in the eye of the beholder - because I've never met anyone face-to-face who's been able to say they went to a VPL game and felt unwelcome or in any way afraid.

Glad you call it structure
I call rubble which is what happens to a structure after it collapses

Who is Mario. Mario Malarno was a great wrestler...so that identifies the vintage if you are not too wet behind the ears.

But seriously mate, of the big slab of text you just pasted, which one is actually a problem for you. Our application, which we have just finished, had no problem with any of this. I really do think it is a great structure.

Can't see what the problem with any of that? We can easily fill all these requirements. Will be a really fun club to run, and will be great for our whole region.

Are you Mario in disguise ?

Any chance the below are amongst the main sticking points....


. Teams
An Applicant must seek to enter the following teams in the NPLV:

Boys U12 Mandatory
Boys U13 Mandatory
Boys U14 Mandatory
Boys U15 Mandatory
Boys U16 Mandatory
Boys U18 Mandatory
Boys U20 Mandatory
Boys Open Mandatory

Girls Under 13 Mandatory
Girls under 15 Mandatory
Girls Under 18 Mandatory
Girls Open Mandatory

An Applicant may only apply for one team per age group


Note: Junior registration/playing fees for 2014 to be charged by a successful Applicant for players under 18 years of age must not exceed $1,700 plus GST. A successful Applicant must not charge for any ‘internal academy’ or other training or playing services over and above this amount.

And the rules around player agents/academies....
Player Agents
The Applicant must submit with the application, a Statutory Declaration by a Director or Committee member confirming the existence and terms of any contractual, financial or other relationship between the Applicant and a Player Agent or between a Player Agent and any third party on behalf of the Applicant.
Private Academies – the Directors of the Applicant must submit with the application and on an annual basis a Statutory Declaration:
a) which confirms that the Applicant does not have any contractual, financial or other relationships with a Private Academy and
b) which set out the existence and terms of any contractual, financial or other relationships between any of the Applicant’s office bearers, employees, volunteers, servants or agents with a Private Academy.
To avoid doubt such a relationship will exist in any of the following circumstance (which is not an exhaustive list):
An Applicant or any person on its behalf (whether directly or indirectly) engaging a Private Academy to deliver training of an Applicant’s team or teams whether for reward or otherwise
An Applicant engaging a Private Academy to supplement training of an Applicant’s team or teams whether for reward or otherwise
An Applicant engaging a Private Academy to deliver holiday or other clinics to the Applicant’s players whether for reward or otherwise
A Private Academy sponsoring an Applicant or any of its players
The Applicant, whether directly or indirectly, endorses or otherwise recommends or refers players to a Private Academy


http://www.footballfedvic.com.au/fileadmin/user_upload/Competitions/NCR/NPLV_Part_2_Participation_Criteria.pdf

Wrong buddy. Never worked for the FFV. Don't get too paranoid. Just address the arguments.

"General view consultation process not carried out properly" Hogwash. It went to long. They are still consulting and should have stopped 6 months ago.

The NPL will have a positive impact on local comps in the longer term when you sit down and work it through. This is a nonsense argument.

The NPL will drive greater investment on facilities, if clubs understand how you actually win funding.

The high ongoing costs are a bit of an issue but not because of the license fee, which is pretty much on a par with what we pay now, more because of the costs of coaching. But isn't investment in coaching exactly what we need?

"Concern for the top heavy framework of the NPLV." Errr the current Premier League system isn't top heavy then??

"The need for council approvals" If you can't get the council to back you in this process, then your relationship with council is terrible and you need to understand how you build good relationships with government and what this is based on.

"Short time frame for expression of interest" Ohh my God. That's the sort of argument I'm talking about.

And you're job title at the FFV is?

Edited by Arthur: 31/7/2013 08:22:42 PM

http://www.parksleisure.com.au/documents/item/2016

I have read through all the article and I still can't see any argument against the FFV NPL model. All I see is gobbledegook arguments "Abrogation of responsibilities by the FFV on to the clubs in underpinning the operation of the competition" err thanks for that Northcote. Lack of consultation (the oldest whinge when you don't have much of an argument). The guts of it really is that the moaning Premier League clubs are too lazy to get out their and win sponsorships and turnaround the unfriendly atmosphere at most games to increase gate $s, rather they are happy to keep robbing kids with extortionate fees that then goes straight into male player's pockets.
I saw one comment here about how it was the FFV's fault that attendances werre declining...give me a break. What about the unfriendly atmosphere at most premier league games. Who would take their family there?
It's time for a change and the FFV should be congratulated on a great structure that looks ahead into the future.

Right, so there are a few key holes in your theory:
1. The EPL is completely seperate to the FA. The FA does not own the rights to any licenses, as it is not a licensed league. The EPL is owned by the clubs, not the other way around. Using the EPL as an example is completely pointless as it's basically the opposite of how the NPL in Victoria will be set up. The clubs all have equal voting powers, they have a say in how things operate, in how funds are distributed etc. None of that is part of the NPL-V proposal.
2. The EPL generates massive amounts of money through TV rights and other avenues. Clubs want to be in the EPL because they know that the opportunities it presents are endless. They know that there are people working at the top who WILL bring in money to their club, whose aim is to find new revenue streams and increase existing ones. People who work for the league, on behalf of the clubs. Agian, none of that is part of the NPL-V proposal
3. The people running the EPL have shown over the last 20 years that they know what they're doing, that they're capable of achieving results. The FFV has not shown that to Victorian clubs in the last 5/10 years. In fact, it has shown the exact opposite
4. The 'success' of the FFA and the A-League has no bearing on the FFV or the VPL, nor is it a predictor of how the NPL-V will pan out.

It's pretty straighforward. The clubs are more or less arguing the following.


That the FFV's model is unsustainable.
That the FFV is trying to shoehorn a failed former set of programmes into the FFA's NPL framework.
That the consultation process has been a sham.


The clubs that are against this do not fall easily into the 'NSL bitter' category that some have wanted to out on them. They include such clubs, yes. But they also include non-NSL clubs, clubs that many woild call non-ethnic, and even regional groups.

These are clubs who have worked with the FFV to try and get the NPL to a stage where it would work in Victoria, and in some cases had already begun implementing elements of the NPL recommendations in preparation for the licensing process.

Or you could read any of the media releases that clubs have put out.

For example this is one by Northcote

NORTHCOTE CITY PRESS RELEASE

Northcote City FC
31st Of July 2013
Media Release

After undertaking an exhaustive due diligence in relation to the National Premier Leagues – Victoria the Executive committee would like to advise as follows:

Northcote City FC will not submit an application due to the following reasons:

• Massive risks financially, we will not compromise the future existence of our club by trading at massive losses during the NPLV
• Abrogation of responsibilities by the FFV on to the clubs in underpinning the operation of the competition
• The FFV model differing totally from that advertised by the FFA National Competition Review recommendations on the FFA website
• Poor implementation & consultation process of the FFV
• Lack of any marketing plan for the NPLV to attract sponsorship
• Massive concern on the lack of direction for junior football particularly in regard to not allowing NPLV club to operate SSF or development squads in each age group
• The FFV Board’s complete lack of fundamental understanding that a club is built from the ground up, be it elite, development or community based.

We would like to thank the Darebin City Council & the Management of the Football Federation Victoria for the work undertaken in assisting in the due diligence process.

Yours in football
Peter Kotsiris
Club President
Northcote City FC

Also this will give you a better understanding of the clubs concerns:
http://leopoldmethod.com.au/in-search-of-perfection-p1/

Ok....this extract from Goal Weekly.....Clubs this year, more than any other, have felt a distinct lack of service over any other year. Well, now you know why - we are financing them to introduce a structure that is going to kill our heritage, our future and everything associated with it. Clubs don't even get their results in the paper on a Monday morning anymore, yet some obscure table tennis league played at Coburg Pools across the road from Pentridge can get a full results listing.


Let's call a spade a spade. The FFV is inept. They are running the game in the interests of the FFV (commercial interests) and not in the interests of the game as a participation sport and another key 'stakeholder' they have forgotten about as a spectator sport. Had a look at SportingPulse recently? Or at the FFV email signatures? Both have had major edits to include an advertisement, yes a shameless plug – Get your NPLV application done before the 31st of this month! Shameful.

It is not a coincidence that crowds have declined dramatically in the last 7-8 years. The FFV in all its cunning, got through the biggest constitutional reform ever seen in Victoria where all the bigger (read: majority vote holding) Victorian clubs were asleep at the wheel and signed over all of their voting rights to the 'faceless ones', the zone representatives and chairmen of five standing committees. It was from here that they did and continue to do what they please. Exorbitant fines, concentrating on peripheral issues, being in competition with clubs these are only the small issues that every fan who has turned away from the FFV has felt on their own skin. Whether they will return is another issue, but the fact is that the FFV have a track record for being out of touch.

This brings us to our next point. Upon successful entry the applicant will have to sign a licence agreement. They have set themselves up as the organisation that gives out licences, meaning that they can just as easily take them away. That is the legal premise of a licence over a lease or affiliation agreement. The licence period has been listed as three years without promotion and relegation. This flies in the face of healthy competition and breeds mediocrity. Don't forget to nominate your three 'preferred' playing names (club/identity) to the FFV for ratification in your NPLV submission.

This is seriously beyond a joke and I haven't even touched on other contentious issues such as the Player Points System (PPS), recruitment zoning and intellectual property rights demarcation between the competition and clubs.

Without getting into legalities, there are a lot of similarities here to EPL. The rights, the rules, the business standards, the licenses are set and owned by the FA. The clubs comply for the good of the game and the understanding that the structure exists to generate funds to grow the game. Yes, Victoria is not on the same scale, but the same basic business process is in place. In favour of the clubs it is a two way street and the FFV's role is to think of the clubs, the supporters and the players first and foremost. This has been displayed as a success by FFA and the A-League. Yes, the clubs need to have input but in the end there has to be a governing body

As has been stated several times...many of the objecting clubs (which includes all VPL clubs except Richmond) have stated that they completely accept the NCR and the model of the NPL which has been implemented in NSW. The model being proposed in Victoria has been found to be financially unviable (clubs could be leaking over $100,000 a season) and inconsistent to those implemented elsewhere.
Everyone down here knows that FFV are a joke, they are not listening to the clubs concerns as other federations have done when implementing the NCR's recommendations....many clubs have stated that the FFV's approach is very rigid and dictatorial.
I dont want to days of the NSL to return either but these clubs are basically going to fade into insignificance or die under the model proposed

If you look at the pdf'd criteria is pretty straight forward. What I want to know is what is getting in the way of progression. Is it politics, why is there an objection? what part of the criteria is unreasonable for the clubs. I am for the progression of football in this country and have been heavily involved in NSW football for nearly 40 years. Is it wrong to not want to see the days of the NSL return? Why will Sydney Croatia and Decazz not comment? Is it an "in-house" situation? Why is not acceptable to discuss the situation?, you might just win an extra ally or two!

The fact that you've picked out the 50k as something to write about demonstrates just how little you know about the whole situation. The clubs have already stated that the 50k isn't an issue as it's about the same as what they already pay

I havent read too many objections to the audits/transparency/recordkeeping either.

I suggest you actually do some reading on what the sticking points are and ask yourself how 30+ clubs who could never agree on anything prior to this have suddenly found common ground. Ask yourself why numerous councils have objected. Ask yourself why an independant body has made a number of objections. When you've actually done some reading, then feel free to come back and make some informed posts

If you havent bothered to do any reading on the topic then dont bother posting on it either.

Typical attitude from most - "I dont like certain clubs so when something goes wrong it MUST be the clubs' fault"

:roll:

Well enlighten me Decazz, NSW football was the biggest bunfight this side of the black stump. QLD is getting sorted If they can get it sorted and begin to progress why can't Victoria.

I think for the Outsiders they are bringing their own prejudices to the situation and are making comments based through the spectacles of that prejudice.

When reputable blogs/reporters are presenting the issue in a non-biased way that makes the FFV's position look poorly, when council documentation and minutes does the same, when an association representing councils recreation bodies has reacted enough to not support the NPLV publicly, when an accountant presents a document that shows clubs making losses of over $100K based on the available data as supplied by the FFV.

What does that say about those making comments against the clubs on this forum regarding the NPL process? ANd those presenting an FFV can do no wrong approach because they believe believe the FFA is in charge.

Is it not Joe Gorman presenting the arguement that the FFA naturally has left the FFV alone to do the right thing locally, but are they? Do they have the capability? Are they running an agenda seperate to the FFA's intention? Is the FFA reluctant to interfere in a local issue?

All valid questions yet so easily dismissed by somne as they try to fit the world into a black and white forumala. The problem is there is a lot of grey out there.



Edited by Arthur: 31/7/2013 03:18:09 PM