The asians, wogs and jews integrated well into our society.

Why can't Africans and Muslims do the same?

I think, and its an opinion, that wogs ( which is now a term of endearment) and Asians have blended in well, I recognise we(being white Aussies) treated them poorly at first. I haven't had much to do with Africans but from those I've met I've had no issue.

But is Muslim part of the multicultural mix ? for eg: we have Asian, Middle Eastern and European Muslims, all practice the same religion but of a different base culture ?

When I was a kid multiculturalism from dirty greasy wog, eye-tie, dago countries like my parents were from was a failure.

Then the Vietnamese and then other Asians copped it in the 70's and 80's.

It seems that now it's the Africans and Moslems turn.

Is it multiculturalism is a failure if the multiple cultures are from Asia, Middle East or Africa?

Or is multiculturalism from Anglo countries a success?

-PB

The gist of your argument, like any typical redneck bogan on talkback radio (squawk, squawk), is that multiculturalism is a failure.

As a product of multi-cultural Australia who is a university educated, family raising, tax paying, productive member of society you can get fucked.

I notice you selectively quoted from the article too.

Let's just say the quoting is pretty selective.

Yep you'll find there are concerns in the muslim community about how the police are tackling the problem. You are 100% correct that he's attacking the police/government first because these sort of comments have been coming out well before the incident occurred.

I haven't had a chance to read the link, but did that study take place in the US?

-PB

Of course your 100% correct and well put. =d>

I think that many of those that keep firing up at the community leaders for not condemning the extremists (like sydneyfc1987) don't fully believe in the idea of "innocent until proven guilty" and I was trying to point out a more human angle that might be easier to relate to.

There's a lot of confirmation bias going on and I'd be lying if I didn't fall into that trap myself often.

Edited by mcjules: 26/9/2014 07:01:54 AM

Family is part of it, another part is that they're actually completely right in staying mum and not fuelling the alienation of these already marginalised youths that get caught up in radicalisation.

The Islamic Council could come out and say "This person is basically a pig and we shit on his grave for what he has done" and people would still complain that they weren't doing enough to stop radicalisation, all the while alienating a whole other group of young men.

They are right to say what they said. To reiterate what Muslim leaders have said:
a) Violence & Murder is not Islamic (or religious at all)
b) Fatwas from IS have no religious significance and should be ignored by Muslims
c) We won't condemn anyone until a full investigation is complete (because we believe in what you believe in, the presumption of innocence until guilt has been proven)
d) We need to bring these youths into our community so they hear this message, not further radicalised by marginalising and alienating them

None of these things condone what Haider did, or is alleged to have done. None of these things are making excuses for him. People see what they want to see because they're scared. People are scared because the authorities are telling them to be scared with very little evidence or reason.

Muslims are scared and/or lashing out because they are unjustly being tarred with the same brush as a miniscule fraction of the community.

It might ring a bell for some active supporters.

If you going to abuse me, at least do so with a source that actually backs up your claims. That article does not once call the guy a "good young man". The quotes are basically saying, "we refuse to condemn anyone until the full thing is investigated and all evidence is provided to the public".

I have said before that i do not know the full story behind this because quite frankly i am sick and fed up of this constant bickering between governments and muslims. Terrorist this and terrorist that. No one seems to want to bother with peace, and it annoys me. Having said that, I cant condone his actions nor condemn them, because i do not know the whole situation. I do not have all the evidence. But the statements are right, innocent until proven guilty. Provide the evidence and we will accept it.

You must have also read half the article because the other half is of a Muslim leader condemning extremism and those who choose that path.

It wasn't me that quoted the article in that way but sentiment is clearly shown towards the belief that this man's death is the result of overzealous police tactics. He won't condemn the man despite attacking police first.

I'm bringing it back.

I don't see anything in that article that says they called him a "good young man".

You see it as him defending the kid but I see it as defending the family of the kid. If you're the leader of a community in which a tragedy has occurred (e.g. parents losing their son, regardless of whether he was a fuckwit or not it's devastating for parents) you're going to be very careful about what you say in the media about the incident as to not marginalise the family and close friends. I never saw anything quoted from them saying it's right to stab police officers but if you can find that please enlighten us.

What the fuck Notor :lol:
Who's called anyone a fuckwad since they were 14? :lol:

Good comeback dickhead, nice sources

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/dont-brand-melbourne-youth-a-terrorist-islamic-council-20140924-10l8v7.html

There you are, fuckwad

Would the wider Australian community be defending this hypothetical white trash bogan in the same fashion Islamic "leaders" are defending this kid?

I'd argue that this sort of reaction by the Victorian Islamic council is just as divisive than anything we have seen in the tabloid newspapers.

Once again, ISIS/IS are not Islam or representatives of Islam. They claim to act on what is Shariah, and yet they break every law of Shariah.

Also, stop constantly attacking the middle east and maybe they wont attack back. Double edged sword. You say to stop attacking people, is that not what the West has been doing to the Middle East for as certainly as long as I have lived. I dont condone the actions of either side, but surely if you suppress a people for close to 5 decades cumulative, then you cant expect them to just sit back and accept it.



Never said it was Australias fault for everything. Just said that when the media coverage has been what it is, then surely the rest of society will have a picture painted for them of what the Muslims and Islam actually aren't.




I havent seen the VIC defending the actions of that idiot, but if they did, I would like to see the source.

In a way they are right, why jump to conclusions based on a media report? Why not wait for all the facts to come out? To be honest, I didnt read the full story or go in to depth about it. Quite frankly I am sick of all these idiots who call for Shariah Law and claim to be fighting the 'good fight' for Islam. They are not representatives of Islam, and every action of theirs is in fact breaking the laws of what they claim to follow.

I am not talking about this incident. I am talking about general Islamaphobia and victimisation of the Muslim community. I have presented plenty evidence to show that those who go and fight in these middle eastern countries as suicide bombers and so on, are doing so not because Islam tells them to, but for every other reason than. All the evidence I have provided has been ignored.

All I am saying, is yes, there are idiots and nutters out there. But why give them the air time. Why plaster Islam (or any religion) in such a bad light all over the front pages of every newspaper. What purpose does that serve? It only serves to fuel the fire. It happens all the time. You really think all this hate filled propaganda is going to serve any good? Muslims all over the world have denounced ISIS/IS, and even the actions of those found guilty in Australia. Any support for these groups or people has been very minimal, but obviously overly evident through constant media exposure to one side rather than impartiality. Muslims have condemned terrorism and these idiotic and pathetic groups and individuals time and time again. Yet certain people continue to ignore that and just fuel the fire.


A government will fuel the means of their actions by justifying them whether that justification is truthful or not.


Edited by zimbos_05: 26/9/2014 12:39:13 AM

Obviously not... Context is critical here

As for the incident in Bella Vista today... Fuck that right off. Stay in Sydney's south west please. Not welcome up here :lol:

Would there still be a national outcry if it was just some white trash bogan that tried to stab some cops and got shot dead?

-PB

Way to go Pauline.

"Hey terrorist, terrorize this"

Links, fuckwad

Fear and loathing

Same old story. It plays out all the time in the muslim community and rhetoric from their community leaders as well. The Victorian islamic council came out a practically defended the young guys actions after he stabbed those 2 police, saying that people should what for all the facts to come out before reading too much into it, and placed the blame on the police for being heavy handed and harassing him in the days prior to the incident.

This really irks me. The facts are pretty simple, he stabbed 2 officers of the law and yet muslim community leaders are playing the victim card and how he was a "good young man". FFS come on.....

If i'm reading this correctly essentially once again it's Australia's fault for everything?

So the media just 'created' everything then.

Please :roll:

IT HAS BECOME increasingly popular to speak of racial and ethnic diversity as a civic strength. From multicultural festivals to pronouncements from political leaders, the message is the same: our differences make us stronger.

But a massive new study, based on detailed interviews of nearly 30,000 people across America, has concluded just the opposite. Harvard political scientist Robert Putnam -- famous for "Bowling Alone," his 2000 book on declining civic engagement -- has found that the greater the diversity in a community, the fewer people vote and the less they volunteer, the less they give to charity and work on community projects. In the most diverse communities, neighbors trust one another about half as much as they do in the most homogenous settings. The study, the largest ever on civic engagement in America, found that virtually all measures of civic health are lower in more diverse settings.

...

But even after statistically taking them all into account, the connection remained strong: Higher diversity meant lower social capital. In his findings, Putnam writes that those in more diverse communities tend to "distrust their neighbors, regardless of the color of their skin, to withdraw even from close friends, to expect the worst from their community and its leaders, to volunteer less, give less to charity and work on community projects less often, to register to vote less, to agitate for social reform more but have less faith that they can actually make a difference, and to huddle unhappily in front of the television."

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/05/the_downside_of_diversity/?page=full

Edited by 433: 25/9/2014 07:45:20 PM

Maybe stop attacking and threatening people, then there will be less hate???