Its a good idea but I thought this exact idea was announced recently as what the FFA is doing. I could be wrong though?

Hahaha ,we got plenty of indians ,its all about which tribe they are from ;)

Unfortunately Aus. Football has the tendency to put ego ahead of what best for football, too many chiefs and not enough indians.

Well i can tell the fact this is going to happen in NSW from next year, it's also part of the Whole Of Football Plan strategy with youth development.

Agree the FFA COE will come with more scrutiny from now on.

Quote:
but the thing is I can't think of many ways of improving things beyond what the ffa is doing.
The NTC seems pretty logical to me (have you read it? Pdf copies are online). The next step of improving the number of full time youth players seems logical. Introducing an organized npl seems logical. Integrating the npl with nyl seems logical



What do you think about the FFA helping all the HAL clubs set up juniors from U12-U14-U16-U18's with 22 players per squad playing in the respective NPL comps with the best coaches in there respective states. Get rid of the state squads have the respective state federations also chip in. That way the same (in some states) if not double or triple the amount of young players (compared to the state programs) will have the opportunity to be a part of an elite program.

No need then for COE/state squads, still have the national youth championships and Joeys etc but picked on a camp/trial bases brought in for 4-6 weeks prior to the tournament.
Even if the FFA and State Fed's put in the same money as they currently do into youth development, wouldn't this be easier to manage and monitor? Not to mention less players being missed.

To the Japs its all about the team and the squad first and foremost ,there are very few egos involved at youth level,just the honour to play for ones country,regardless of which team they would have put out against Australia you can guarantee that they were 100% fit and ready to play ,as most would have had a 4 day break .

simple really ,its tournament football you take 23 players for a reason ,not for a holiday.

Okon coached teams have noticeably been below par compared to other youth teams

this is accentuated by the fact that some of the players he has coached have looked good in the a league.

If it was just the results well you could just say "performance over results" however whenever I see his teams play we don't seem to be able to recycle possession, play with rhythm changes and the ball carrier is often struggling to find options even if he has time or space. He also plays with 2 Defensive mids against teams parking the bus and playing on the counter. I rarely see him rotate the midfield triangle

Japan played their first team in the first match, in the second match they did a complete rotation with a totally new starting line up,
third match they went back to the team from the first match.
How can you lose 3-0 to a team which only beat Laos 2-0 , its simple hire the idiots called Okon.

There you have the explanation there by Okon standards it wasn't him going full retard, but he did have 3 players playing 3 games in a row, and a further 2 playing 2 matches in a row. The number one problem with our youth football is the stubborn obstinate idiocy with playing the same players with games 2 day part.

Well at least the FFA have reported on the loss , so at least they are not sticking head in the sand.
Interesting that we conceded 2 goals in first half injury time , one from a penalty , and then after 75 mins give away another penalty.
Sounds like a fitness problem tbh and looking at our squad all of the aleague players were basically on pre season , this only left the overseas player which were in season .
Need to look at this prior to Asian cup next year or it could be ugly in the heat of Bahrain :(

Not surprised at all by the result.. It's not a good one but hey, not unexpected. Still qualified, so that's good.

We qualified but it doesn't hide the fact that there is deep flaws with the youth teams and with our youth system which needs some evaluating.

Thank goodness we qualified.

watching a league graduates in europe there seems to have been gradual improvement. 7-8 years ago a league graduates were flops, then a few years later they could break into second level leagues after a year or so sitting on the bench. Now as long as injuries don't stop them they can break into a number of decent leagues straight away. Its gradual improvement and we are chasing a moving target

but the thing is I can't think of many ways of improving things beyond what the ffa is doing.
The NTC seems pretty logical to me (have you read it? Pdf copies are online). The next step of improving the number of full time youth players seems logical. Introducing an organized npl seems logical. Integrating the npl with nyl seems logical

I advocate a second teir but beyond that I'm out of ideas. Bender_Palmer has taken the initiative of making some suggestions in the performance section but while this is very constructive and appreciated I find his ideas less than convincing.

Others have suggested promo-relegation produces an arms race for youth development. This is an interesting idea. Problem is I can't see how it can be implemented sustainably until we have at least 2 leagues with 16 sides in each which is probably 30 years away if we are lucky.....

Okon sides have noticeably underpeformed in both results (which I buy don't matter at this age) and performance whenever I have watched them. But thats all I can think of and its a pretty small change.

We lost which is disappointing, however, it looks like we have qualified as one of the five best placed runners up.

The Qualified teams are:

Bahrain - Hosts 8th Runners-up (1986)
Japan - Group J winners 18th Runners-up (1973, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2002, 2006)
Iraq - Group F winners 17th Champions (1975, 1977, 1978, 1988, 2000)
China PR - Group I winners 16th Champions (1985)
Vietnam - Group G winners 7th Third place (1964)
Uzbekistan - Group A winners 7th Runners-up (2008)
South Korea - Group H winners 37th Champions (1959, 1960, 1963, 1978, 1980, 1982, 1990, 1996, 1998, 2002, 2004, 2012)
Tajikistan - Group F (1st best) runners-up 3rd Group stage (2006, 2008)
United Arab Emirates - Group C winners 13th Champions (2008)
Australia - Group J (2nd best) runners-up 6th Runners-up (2010)
Qatar - Group D winners 13th Champions (2014)
Thailand - Group H (3rd best) runners-up 27th Champions (1962, 1969)
Saudi Arabia - Group B winners 12th Champions (1986, 1992)
North Korea - Group I (4th best) runners-up 12th Champions (1976, 2006, 2010)
Iran - Group E winners 18th Champions (1973, 1974, 1975, 1976)
Yemen - Group B (5th best) runners-up

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_AFC_U-19_Championship

v Phillipines:

1   GK   TOM GLOVER   
2   DF   THOMAS DENG   
5   DF   DANIEL ALESSI   
6   MF   LIAM ROSE    off@70'
11   FW   NICHOLAS D'AGOSTINO    off@78'
14   DF   ALEXANDER JOSEPH GERSBACH (C)   off@65'
16   MF   GEORGE MELLS   
19   MF   LIAM YOULLEY
21   FW   ALUSINE FOFANAH
32   FW   WILLIAM MUTCH   
46   FW   STEVE KUZMANOVSKI

Subs:
3   DF   CONNOR O'TOOLE    on@65'
4   MF   MARIO SHABOW    on@70'
10   FW   DEJAN PANDUREVIC on@78'


v Laos:
3   DF   CONNOR O'TOOLE   
4   MF   MARIO SHABOW    off@83'
5   DF   DANIEL ALESSI (C)   
8   MF   BRANDON WILSON    off@62'
10   FW   DEJAN PANDUREVIC
12   GK   JORDAN HOLMES   
16   MF   GEORGE MELLS   
23   DF   GEORGE CHRISTOS TIMOTHEOU   
24   MF   CAMERON DEVLIN   
32   FW   WILLIAM MUTCH   
46   FW   STEVE KUZMANOVSKI    off@75'

Subs:
7   FW   LACHLAN ROBERTS    on@75'
19   MF   LIAM YOULLEY    on@62'
21   FW   ALUSINE FOFANAH    on@83'


v Japan:
1   GK   TOM GLOVER   
2   DF   THOMAS DENG   
4   MF   MARIO SHABOW   
5   DF   DANIEL ALESSI   
6   MF   LIAM ROSE   
7   FW   LACHLAN ROBERTS   
10   FW   DEJAN PANDUREVIC    off@90'
14   DF   ALEXANDER JOSEPH GERSBACH (C)   
16   MF   GEORGE MELLS   
21   FW   ALUSINE FOFANAH   
46   FW   STEVE KUZMANOVSKI

Subs:
11   FW   NICHOLAS D'AGOSTINO    on@90'

Gee that's quite a surprise and seems quite disappointing. :/ TBRH This thread of TheSelectFew's gets me damn confused - We're talking the 1997-born Young Socceroos I presume... ah yes, the 1995 cycle is over (They didn't make the U20 WC)... oh never mind, I see we're talking 'current' 1998-9-born Joeys will feature at this month's U17 World Cup.

Ok, there's quite a difference between the Young Socceroos (U19/20s) and the Joeys (U16/17s) - I think with the Joeys it's alot narrower for reasons I don't entirely grasp, but from what little I gather, somewhat understand. From what I gather they prefer a tighter group, squad, to mould for the cycle and that group tends to be compromised more of the local 'Centre of Excellence' talent? I know this is opposed to what we just discussed, but at U16s/17s level it may be a different beast and perhaps having the tighter, familiar, collective is the recommended way to go, just as Jonsnow and others discussed how Japan had a camp with the same group of players for weeks as prep for the U19s tournament?

I think the Young Socceroos, yes, a much broader and diverse pool, broaden that net as much as possible - there is a growing list who are playing or very near to playing senior football too. The Young Socceroos level is the dawn of senior football and Olyroos level with some of the very best of the U20s talents even pushing the older Olyroos and even Socceroos level (Look at Ikon and DDS). But at Joeys level, it's ever more about development aspect and refining that group/tight unit I guess? In that way I can sympathise with the microcosmic, even slightly insular, approach? Flipside, at that age-level, the 'initial' wider net, talent identification pool is scoured via those National U15/16s National Championships (State-based teams)? :-k

Tony Vidmar has seemed to have done quite a good job there, or so far anyway - the Joeys performed very well in the 2014 AFC U16 Championships to qualify for this month's U17 World Cup, the talent on show there quite impressed. They have a tough task with their group of death though. I think we can be more forgiving of Tony Vidmar and the Joeys regime, than we can of Okon and the Young Socceroos regime - where we naturally expect a bit more, of the older age-group and of a regime who's been in-charge a bit longer too.

Edited by GloryPerth: 7/10/2015 07:06:46 AM

Gloryperth - our theory of Lack of depth when engaging players for oz youth teams will be tested again in the upcoming u17s World Cup. Looking at the selected squads for the last three tournament since December 2014 indicates that only a total of 28 players have been utilized. 21 of those have been selected for the up coming World Cup.

No idea, has Foxsports advertised - do they usually telecast Olyroos friendlies? We may be hoping for too much in that regard (Sadly) - so may have to rely on good ole dodgy streams, once again! I guess we'd better brush up on our Korean? :p

Thanks for that Robbo - Though I presume Eric Abrams is also the head or oversees the wider technical staff under him, within the FFA or I mean, he's certainly the apex of the technical side of things, at the FFA?

Ahh you are right, Luke Casserly is the 'Head of National Performance' - Seems he's the guy to be addressing the issues of our concern?

http://www.footballnsw.com.au/index.php?id=149&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=8190&cHash=5e68435f3cd9634c9e3c5e16c115a28b

With Talent Identification and monitoring (Euro-based), I think that's a slightly different and perhaps in bigger picture issue. In a way I shy away, as costs come into this (Tight purse strings, look at the CBA Saga recently) and perhaps that's why the FFA don't extend further in regards to scouting and Craig Moore/Stu McLaren type roles in Europe? Atleast with assessing Okon and co, that may be less a cost issue and more just whatever procedures and methods of assessment, are under-taken (Casserly's area)?

FTR I certainly agree that we need to monitor, engage and select more of where possible, some of these talents, to see if they warrant/earn the selection. I think we need to be careful not to presume the grass is always greener though, as just because one transfers overseas doesn't necessarily instantly make them superior to some of our local talents - especially those pushing through to senior level in the A-League. Our coaches are right insofar as senior football/appearances trump youth/lack of football, full stop. The more of our Young Socceroos generations featuring in the A-League or senior football elsewhere, the better our Young Socceroos generations will be.

I like your bigger squad, pool of players idea and from top-down level, Ange certainly is utilising this (Including bringing Olyroos and talents like Chris Ikonomidis into the senior NT fold). Hopefully, as part of talent identification and broadening the net/pool, our younger 'aged' teams start to scope more widely the pools for their aged groups too. I think, relative to the late 00s, it's certainly improved, but still alot more room for improvement. I don't know why they don't send Okon and staff to Europe for a European Camp of the type you describe (Just to assess the dozens of age-eligible 'Aussies Abroad' there), but maybe they are trying to balance the local/overseas emphasis and trying not to encourage more young/pre-18 youths from moving overseas as the A-League's remit is to encourage more locals to stay - albeit the opportunities to gain a contract with A-League and/or their NYL teams is still quite slim with the 10-team league. Still it would seem best to broaden the net as wide as possible, as you argue Robbo.

Also,



if Jonsnow is right and DDS declined and others like Hyuga Tanner haven't come in for similar reasons (He's featured for the previous Joeys gen though?! :? ) - then not so much we can do about that? Though DDS declining due to pushing through with Roda JC isn't such a bad thing tbh - DDS has alot on his plate with coming Olyroos commitments too. So he's an exception to the rule as he's well leapfrogged this generation.

Edited by GloryPerth: 7/10/2015 05:17:45 AM

Eric Abrams is TD for players up to the age of 16.
Peter de roo overseas the FFA Co (ais) of full time scholarship holders meaning up to joeys level.
Craig Moore was the only contact point for overseas based players prior to leaving the role
Ange and Luke casserly are responsible for young socceroos and olyroos. The head coach of young socceroos (okon) is the assistant to A Vidmar the head coach for the olyroos, who is in tur assistant to ange in the
Socceroos. This is meant to allow the philosophy to cascade down to youth teams.

It's correct to question the coaching ability but I think to lack of depth or knowledge of players in each age group is the major deficiency facing oz football. If you look at the powerhouses of football they don't simply have one squad for each age group. They have a multitude of players that have attend camps, played friendless or participated under the eye of the respective coach. A college of mine gave me the details of one European country for the age group born 1997. In the space of one year that country had invited, viewed, assessed over 96 players before deciding on a squad of 26 a class players, 52 b class players.
I was told the reason for such a broad net is two fold
1. Give the players confidence that they are being recongised for their efforts and are on the radar
2. By being listed as national players it helped all 96 secure contracts with better clubs throughout Europe

Now compare this approach to the joeys selection process and the young socceroos process. Barca for life is correct we don't take youth football seriously. When was the last time Okon or A vidmar or T Vidmar scouted players locally or overseas...

Anyone heard anything about any tv coverage for the Olyroos two matches against South Korea being played this week?

This is the thing and we hope this is being properly assessed through channels above Okon - FFA CoE TD, Peter De Roo is over there with the group this tournament and I'm not sure if FFA TD, Eric Abrams is aswell - though the former could easily report to the latter, any details. Abrams in his position, would/should be the one to oversee the youth NTs and how they are performing and how the NT staff are performing to their own expected performance criteria and standards set by the FFA through the TD. A coach in that position, for the length of time Okon's been in it (Since 2012) - there must be some level of measurable improvement in his teams' performances over the two or three Young Socceroos generations he's overseen. IF they're improving in performance under Okon's guidance, then that should naturally be seeing some gradually improving results in the overall picture.

No matter who's in the job, these roles should see a performance review after every generational cycle! Okon has see through atleast one cycle (2013), to mixed success, so, in-theory, this should be his last chance to impress really. Especially as he was appointed by, or entered into the job during the reign of the previous TD, Han Berger - Eric Abrams is in the role now and may bring fresh eyes and have new ideas and/or greater remit from the FFA, to enact change, a change in direction, when opportunity arises.

Edited by GloryPerth: 7/10/2015 03:25:22 AM

FTR Concur about Okon - his job and the position of Young Socceroos coach generally, needs more discerning scrutiny, performance review. It's an important position in the development of potential next gen Olyroos and Socceroos and I think the set-up is due more serious and worthy focus and consideration. The trend of the selection process and level of the last few appointees, including overseas expert, Versleijen, just smacked of the cheaper or 'after-thought' kind of job, where I think far greater expertise and experience could be required for such a position, rather than gifting the position as some kind of 'coach developmental' role, as we've tended to see?

Peter De Roo is there, so perhaps he's the one to oversee and monitor these things and report to FFA TD Eric Abrams too, such details of how the team and staff are measuring up, to their expected performance levels. Here's hoping, anyway.



I think we get a bit over-excited the other way guys - I mean, looking at the devil in detail in the match itself - two of the goals were conceded in First-Half stoppage time?! That's reflective of a common tendency of youth teams, that they concede or let their guard down in moments during a game - fuller, sustained concentration, focus and discipline, application, only tends to come with more substantive senior football experience, along with adulthood in itself - that additional development and settling, post-teen years.

It sounds all the more worse that they conceded in such a time, but in another way, it's a relief? :-k They must've done alright for the first 44 minutes or so, it was 0-0 and just a couple more minutes that way and it's 0-0 into h/t. A different game? The pre-game needs, results-wise, would always factor in and skew the approach (Even though our teams always try to 'play' no matter what context) - alot different than if we had played Japan as the first or second fixture of this group I guess. In some ways though, facing Japan now is no different than any other time, but having those two Goal Difference results in the bag would've naturally relieved some pressure from the team and staff and seen an adjustment in approach (Less urgency, more conservatism). Second-half, Japan have the 2-0 and scored again in the 70-odd minutes, surely as a counter as our team sought (or continued) a slightly more proactive approach? I didn't see the game, but context is everything.

It could've been soo much different had it remained 0-0 at h/t, our young side ever more confident and more pressure on the Japanese players. Anyway, hopefully you guys are right - I think depending on GD, we can still slip through as one the better placed 'Second placed' teams - but indeed, it's not a good thing if some under-performing elements may be glossed over in the process. So again, I hope the De Roo and co from the Technical department have independent monitoring processes to really measure up and assess all elements and if they're to our Technically aspirational standards.

Edited by GloryPerth: 7/10/2015 03:13:39 AM

Getting excited by results against Laos,Guam,Philippines and the like is meaningless.These a re all 100 plus ranked teams.The results against the likes of Thailand amd Vietnam show we still have a long way to go.
3-0 against Japan follows a familiar pattern where our teams finish these tournaments with poor losses.
Who knows if it's the conditions or superior opposition.
If it is the conditions,then we haven't prepared well enough,because all teams face the same issues.

Robbo , not sure of this but have heard DDS was asked but club declined also Tanner at Blackburn ?
In regards to rotation apparently 4/5 players did not get any gametime and others played 3 straight , cant confirm though.

I will bet a million dollars that Okon did not do a proper full rotation. Any coach in any sport could have done a better job than Okon.
The sad part is he will keep the job after they qualify in second.

Mate that's the biggest issue we wouldn't know which overseas lads to call up because we don't monitor them regularly. Since Craig Moore left nobody contacts these lads overseas. Look at the makeup of all our youth squads it's always only 2-3 players playing overseas.

" evolution is when we learn from our mistake- oz football doesn't "

3 fucking nil. Are you fucking kidding me.

I think they will show this result , ffs , I mean we were beaten by Japan not some third world country , yes it was 3-0 but two spot kicks makes it hard tbh.
Regroup , if we qualify as one of best second teams maybe we can get more of overseas lads released for at leased 6-8 weeks prior to tournament , which is October 2016.