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mouflonrouge
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI find the pie in the face just an example of cranky old white male privelege. Atheism is verging on 25% in the Australia census, reflecting what is happening around the world. I expect atheism & agnosticism to reach 51% majority within 10 years & atheism outright majority in about 50 years (people's fear of dying will delay it being sooner) Actually, it's all about stages of life. People who are not religious today, will become religious later in life. Also, meany people who declared 'no religion" (like me) are not Atheist. Sorry to burst your little bubble. But I find it is of no concern to the Government exactly what my religious beliefs are. Plus, I do predict that one day, religious people will be persecuted (familiar story). Just like in Finland where parents with religious beliefs have their kids taken from them because they are Christian (yes it's true and it's happening now). This is where Australia is headed. Religion is becoming less and less prevalent. Parents enforcing their religious beliefs and lifestyle on children to me is abuse. The children have no option but to accept their parents lifestyle. It's not! Some religions will be going on for thousands of years to the end of times. In fact, our religion is enjoying a huge resurgence among our young which is very encouraging. Our churches are full to bursting point and young people are going on pilgrimages to experience all the riches. l In small areas perhaps, but there is no doubt that the major religions are declining. People don't have to declare atheism to be unbelievers. I do not profess to be an atheist and yet would never voluntarily attend a church. I'm talking about cities and entire countries. I'm talking about millions of people not just some small backwater. Religiosity is about 98% Orthodoxy isn't declining my friend. In fact, it is expanding at a very fast rate. Catholicism has some structural problems giving it a bad name, but when they sort it, I expect them to rebound too. Your last sentence means you profess to believe in a higher power. Also, many Christians ticked the "no religion" or Atheist box in the census. That is what I did on our census form. Despite going to church most Sundays and being heavily invested in our parish. I did that, because for the first time ever, I am starting to live in fear because of my Christian beliefs. I do believe that the State will try to undermine Christian families and Christian values in the very near future. In fact, it is prophesized in our Bible (Apocalypse). And just about every prophecy so far has ended up being true. They will do that to cut people off from their support and family so that the Government can control people more and be all powerful. In 3rd world and developing countries maybe, but there are numerous documentaries and studies on the decline of organized and active religion. Christianity is deeply embedded in our culture (unfortunately). Christians fearing that their beliefs are under attack are being either sensitive or paranoid. I remember Scott Morrison claiming discrimination for his stance on gay marriage being attacked. What idiots like him need to accept is that religion does not and should not protect your beliefs from criticism. If you can't handle the criticism, do not publicly voice beliefs. I respect people, not their religious beliefs. I am not an atheist. However my definition of a higher power would significantly differ from yours. You're entitled to interpret things the way you want. You can define this God however you wish. It is of zero consequence to me as our religion should be of zero consequence to you, unless of course you actually do something quite brave and try to learn something. Lol..... I assure you I am learning a lot. I belong to a fraternity not blinded by a single religion ;) No you are not learning at all. You know absolutely nothing, just swallowing the Atheistic narrative from a point of ignorance. In fact, that is the downfall of Atheism. So many people who profess Atheism actually know nothing or very little and give Atheism a very bad name. You go on a pilgrimage and see for yourself and experience it. Then I can say you have made an effort to learn. You are in no position to say that God doesn't exist. In fact no one is.
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BETHFC
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+xThe incident in Melbourne raises the same questions as the reporting of the Manchester bomber and the failure of police to take action - what's the point if the government won't/isn't allowed to repatriate them. It's too late once they have already commited multiple murders.Putting them on the watch list, searching their apartment and having a "deradicalisation" D&M can only do so much. Putting them on a plane in handcuffs does a lot more. A bullet hole in the front of their skull does more. Just saying, deporting them will not do anything if they can find a way back in or go and commit an act of terror in another country.
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Aljay
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This is the way that Muslim majority countries with functioning governments learnt to deal with Jihadis e.g. middle eastern governments primarily before the 2000s - Saddam's Iraq, Jordan, Syria before the war, Gulf nations, Egypt under Sadat, Nasser. Not condoning, just stating.
Edit - functioning with inverted commas.
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paulbagzFC
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So what does one have to do to be deported lol? -PB
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Muz
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI find the pie in the face just an example of cranky old white male privelege. Atheism is verging on 25% in the Australia census, reflecting what is happening around the world. I expect atheism & agnosticism to reach 51% majority within 10 years & atheism outright majority in about 50 years (people's fear of dying will delay it being sooner) Actually, it's all about stages of life. People who are not religious today, will become religious later in life. Also, meany people who declared 'no religion" (like me) are not Atheist. Sorry to burst your little bubble. But I find it is of no concern to the Government exactly what my religious beliefs are. Plus, I do predict that one day, religious people will be persecuted (familiar story). Just like in Finland where parents with religious beliefs have their kids taken from them because they are Christian (yes it's true and it's happening now). This is where Australia is headed. Religion is becoming less and less prevalent. Parents enforcing their religious beliefs and lifestyle on children to me is abuse. The children have no option but to accept their parents lifestyle. It's not! Some religions will be going on for thousands of years to the end of times. In fact, our religion is enjoying a huge resurgence among our young which is very encouraging. Our churches are full to bursting point and young people are going on pilgrimages to experience all the riches. l In small areas perhaps, but there is no doubt that the major religions are declining. People don't have to declare atheism to be unbelievers. I do not profess to be an atheist and yet would never voluntarily attend a church. I'm talking about cities and entire countries. I'm talking about millions of people not just some small backwater. Religiosity is about 98% Orthodoxy isn't declining my friend. In fact, it is expanding at a very fast rate. Catholicism has some structural problems giving it a bad name, but when they sort it, I expect them to rebound too. Your last sentence means you profess to believe in a higher power. Also, many Christians ticked the "no religion" or Atheist box in the census. That is what I did on our census form. Despite going to church most Sundays and being heavily invested in our parish. I did that, because for the first time ever, I am starting to live in fear because of my Christian beliefs. I do believe that the State will try to undermine Christian families and Christian values in the very near future. In fact, it is prophesized in our Bible (Apocalypse). And just about every prophecy so far has ended up being true. They will do that to cut people off from their support and family so that the Government can control people more and be all powerful. In 3rd world and developing countries maybe, but there are numerous documentaries and studies on the decline of organized and active religion. Christianity is deeply embedded in our culture (unfortunately). Christians fearing that their beliefs are under attack are being either sensitive or paranoid. I remember Scott Morrison claiming discrimination for his stance on gay marriage being attacked. What idiots like him need to accept is that religion does not and should not protect your beliefs from criticism. If you can't handle the criticism, do not publicly voice beliefs. I respect people, not their religious beliefs. I am not an atheist. However my definition of a higher power would significantly differ from yours. You're entitled to interpret things the way you want. You can define this God however you wish. It is of zero consequence to me as our religion should be of zero consequence to you, unless of course you actually do something quite brave and try to learn something. Lol..... I assure you I am learning a lot. I belong to a fraternity not blinded by a single religion ;) You are in no position to say that God doesn't exist. In fact no one is. The reverse is equally true. But anyway let's say for a minute I believe in the flying spaghetti Monster. Prove to me that no such deity exists. Thanks in advance.
Member since 2008.
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BETHFC
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.2K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI find the pie in the face just an example of cranky old white male privelege. Atheism is verging on 25% in the Australia census, reflecting what is happening around the world. I expect atheism & agnosticism to reach 51% majority within 10 years & atheism outright majority in about 50 years (people's fear of dying will delay it being sooner) Actually, it's all about stages of life. People who are not religious today, will become religious later in life. Also, meany people who declared 'no religion" (like me) are not Atheist. Sorry to burst your little bubble. But I find it is of no concern to the Government exactly what my religious beliefs are. Plus, I do predict that one day, religious people will be persecuted (familiar story). Just like in Finland where parents with religious beliefs have their kids taken from them because they are Christian (yes it's true and it's happening now). This is where Australia is headed. Religion is becoming less and less prevalent. Parents enforcing their religious beliefs and lifestyle on children to me is abuse. The children have no option but to accept their parents lifestyle. It's not! Some religions will be going on for thousands of years to the end of times. In fact, our religion is enjoying a huge resurgence among our young which is very encouraging. Our churches are full to bursting point and young people are going on pilgrimages to experience all the riches. l In small areas perhaps, but there is no doubt that the major religions are declining. People don't have to declare atheism to be unbelievers. I do not profess to be an atheist and yet would never voluntarily attend a church. I'm talking about cities and entire countries. I'm talking about millions of people not just some small backwater. Religiosity is about 98% Orthodoxy isn't declining my friend. In fact, it is expanding at a very fast rate. Catholicism has some structural problems giving it a bad name, but when they sort it, I expect them to rebound too. Your last sentence means you profess to believe in a higher power. Also, many Christians ticked the "no religion" or Atheist box in the census. That is what I did on our census form. Despite going to church most Sundays and being heavily invested in our parish. I did that, because for the first time ever, I am starting to live in fear because of my Christian beliefs. I do believe that the State will try to undermine Christian families and Christian values in the very near future. In fact, it is prophesized in our Bible (Apocalypse). And just about every prophecy so far has ended up being true. They will do that to cut people off from their support and family so that the Government can control people more and be all powerful. In 3rd world and developing countries maybe, but there are numerous documentaries and studies on the decline of organized and active religion. Christianity is deeply embedded in our culture (unfortunately). Christians fearing that their beliefs are under attack are being either sensitive or paranoid. I remember Scott Morrison claiming discrimination for his stance on gay marriage being attacked. What idiots like him need to accept is that religion does not and should not protect your beliefs from criticism. If you can't handle the criticism, do not publicly voice beliefs. I respect people, not their religious beliefs. I am not an atheist. However my definition of a higher power would significantly differ from yours. You're entitled to interpret things the way you want. You can define this God however you wish. It is of zero consequence to me as our religion should be of zero consequence to you, unless of course you actually do something quite brave and try to learn something. Lol..... I assure you I am learning a lot. I belong to a fraternity not blinded by a single religion ;) No you are not learning at all. You know absolutely nothing, just swallowing the Atheistic narrative from a point of ignorance. In fact, that is the downfall of Atheism. So many people who profess Atheism actually know nothing or very little and give Atheism a very bad name. You go on a pilgrimage and see for yourself and experience it. Then I can say you have made an effort to learn. You are in no position to say that God doesn't exist. In fact no one is. You are terrible at paraphrasing. I have not told you what fraternity I belong to but suffice to say it incorporates several elements which your religion also teaches. Some of your holy buildings and locations are also taught. I find it rich that you are telling me what I do and do not know. Once again I am not an atheist. I just don't believe in a personal God nor a God that has the ability to solve all the problems of the world and doesn't. I would not say that God does not exist because you have not defined what God is.
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mouflonrouge
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.8K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI find the pie in the face just an example of cranky old white male privelege. Atheism is verging on 25% in the Australia census, reflecting what is happening around the world. I expect atheism & agnosticism to reach 51% majority within 10 years & atheism outright majority in about 50 years (people's fear of dying will delay it being sooner) Actually, it's all about stages of life. People who are not religious today, will become religious later in life. Also, meany people who declared 'no religion" (like me) are not Atheist. Sorry to burst your little bubble. But I find it is of no concern to the Government exactly what my religious beliefs are. Plus, I do predict that one day, religious people will be persecuted (familiar story). Just like in Finland where parents with religious beliefs have their kids taken from them because they are Christian (yes it's true and it's happening now). This is where Australia is headed. Religion is becoming less and less prevalent. Parents enforcing their religious beliefs and lifestyle on children to me is abuse. The children have no option but to accept their parents lifestyle. It's not! Some religions will be going on for thousands of years to the end of times. In fact, our religion is enjoying a huge resurgence among our young which is very encouraging. Our churches are full to bursting point and young people are going on pilgrimages to experience all the riches. l In small areas perhaps, but there is no doubt that the major religions are declining. People don't have to declare atheism to be unbelievers. I do not profess to be an atheist and yet would never voluntarily attend a church. I'm talking about cities and entire countries. I'm talking about millions of people not just some small backwater. Religiosity is about 98% Orthodoxy isn't declining my friend. In fact, it is expanding at a very fast rate. Catholicism has some structural problems giving it a bad name, but when they sort it, I expect them to rebound too. Your last sentence means you profess to believe in a higher power. Also, many Christians ticked the "no religion" or Atheist box in the census. That is what I did on our census form. Despite going to church most Sundays and being heavily invested in our parish. I did that, because for the first time ever, I am starting to live in fear because of my Christian beliefs. I do believe that the State will try to undermine Christian families and Christian values in the very near future. In fact, it is prophesized in our Bible (Apocalypse). And just about every prophecy so far has ended up being true. They will do that to cut people off from their support and family so that the Government can control people more and be all powerful. In 3rd world and developing countries maybe, but there are numerous documentaries and studies on the decline of organized and active religion. Christianity is deeply embedded in our culture (unfortunately). Christians fearing that their beliefs are under attack are being either sensitive or paranoid. I remember Scott Morrison claiming discrimination for his stance on gay marriage being attacked. What idiots like him need to accept is that religion does not and should not protect your beliefs from criticism. If you can't handle the criticism, do not publicly voice beliefs. I respect people, not their religious beliefs. I am not an atheist. However my definition of a higher power would significantly differ from yours. You're entitled to interpret things the way you want. You can define this God however you wish. It is of zero consequence to me as our religion should be of zero consequence to you, unless of course you actually do something quite brave and try to learn something. Lol..... I assure you I am learning a lot. I belong to a fraternity not blinded by a single religion ;) No you are not learning at all. You know absolutely nothing, just swallowing the Atheistic narrative from a point of ignorance. In fact, that is the downfall of Atheism. So many people who profess Atheism actually know nothing or very little and give Atheism a very bad name. You go on a pilgrimage and see for yourself and experience it. Then I can say you have made an effort to learn. You are in no position to say that God doesn't exist. In fact no one is. You are terrible at paraphrasing. I have not told you what fraternity I belong to but suffice to say it incorporates several elements which your religion also teaches. Some of your holy buildings and locations are also taught. I find it rich that you are telling me what I do and do not know. Once again I am not an atheist. I just don't believe in a personal God nor a God that has the ability to solve all the problems of the world and doesn't. I would not say that God does not exist because you have not defined what God is. You have actually told me. You are a Free Mason. What is odd, is not the fact that you believe in a deity, but that you were arrogant enough to say that your fraternity is not blinded or limited by any particular religion. Sounds good, but there is a wee problem. Your "fraternity" excludes women. If you claim to be at one with a deity (a condition of you being a Free Mason) then why would you exclude women from the truth? It seems that other religions are ahead of the game by not excluding women from God. It seems that your "fraternity" isn't quite there compared to other religions I am afraid. You are a brotherhood, whereas my religion is not only a brotherhood but a sisterhood too.
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mouflonrouge
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.8K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI find the pie in the face just an example of cranky old white male privelege. Atheism is verging on 25% in the Australia census, reflecting what is happening around the world. I expect atheism & agnosticism to reach 51% majority within 10 years & atheism outright majority in about 50 years (people's fear of dying will delay it being sooner) Actually, it's all about stages of life. People who are not religious today, will become religious later in life. Also, meany people who declared 'no religion" (like me) are not Atheist. Sorry to burst your little bubble. But I find it is of no concern to the Government exactly what my religious beliefs are. Plus, I do predict that one day, religious people will be persecuted (familiar story). Just like in Finland where parents with religious beliefs have their kids taken from them because they are Christian (yes it's true and it's happening now). This is where Australia is headed. Religion is becoming less and less prevalent. Parents enforcing their religious beliefs and lifestyle on children to me is abuse. The children have no option but to accept their parents lifestyle. It's not! Some religions will be going on for thousands of years to the end of times. In fact, our religion is enjoying a huge resurgence among our young which is very encouraging. Our churches are full to bursting point and young people are going on pilgrimages to experience all the riches. l In small areas perhaps, but there is no doubt that the major religions are declining. People don't have to declare atheism to be unbelievers. I do not profess to be an atheist and yet would never voluntarily attend a church. I'm talking about cities and entire countries. I'm talking about millions of people not just some small backwater. Religiosity is about 98% Orthodoxy isn't declining my friend. In fact, it is expanding at a very fast rate. Catholicism has some structural problems giving it a bad name, but when they sort it, I expect them to rebound too. Your last sentence means you profess to believe in a higher power. Also, many Christians ticked the "no religion" or Atheist box in the census. That is what I did on our census form. Despite going to church most Sundays and being heavily invested in our parish. I did that, because for the first time ever, I am starting to live in fear because of my Christian beliefs. I do believe that the State will try to undermine Christian families and Christian values in the very near future. In fact, it is prophesized in our Bible (Apocalypse). And just about every prophecy so far has ended up being true. They will do that to cut people off from their support and family so that the Government can control people more and be all powerful. In 3rd world and developing countries maybe, but there are numerous documentaries and studies on the decline of organized and active religion. Christianity is deeply embedded in our culture (unfortunately). Christians fearing that their beliefs are under attack are being either sensitive or paranoid. I remember Scott Morrison claiming discrimination for his stance on gay marriage being attacked. What idiots like him need to accept is that religion does not and should not protect your beliefs from criticism. If you can't handle the criticism, do not publicly voice beliefs. I respect people, not their religious beliefs. I am not an atheist. However my definition of a higher power would significantly differ from yours. You're entitled to interpret things the way you want. You can define this God however you wish. It is of zero consequence to me as our religion should be of zero consequence to you, unless of course you actually do something quite brave and try to learn something. Lol..... I assure you I am learning a lot. I belong to a fraternity not blinded by a single religion ;) You are in no position to say that God doesn't exist. In fact no one is. The reverse is equally true. But anyway let's say for a minute I believe in the flying spaghetti Monster. Prove to me that no such deity exists. Thanks in advance. I wouldn't dare to prove you wrong. But I might have a straight jacket for you instead. lol
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BETHFC
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.2K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI find the pie in the face just an example of cranky old white male privelege. Atheism is verging on 25% in the Australia census, reflecting what is happening around the world. I expect atheism & agnosticism to reach 51% majority within 10 years & atheism outright majority in about 50 years (people's fear of dying will delay it being sooner) Actually, it's all about stages of life. People who are not religious today, will become religious later in life. Also, meany people who declared 'no religion" (like me) are not Atheist. Sorry to burst your little bubble. But I find it is of no concern to the Government exactly what my religious beliefs are. Plus, I do predict that one day, religious people will be persecuted (familiar story). Just like in Finland where parents with religious beliefs have their kids taken from them because they are Christian (yes it's true and it's happening now). This is where Australia is headed. Religion is becoming less and less prevalent. Parents enforcing their religious beliefs and lifestyle on children to me is abuse. The children have no option but to accept their parents lifestyle. It's not! Some religions will be going on for thousands of years to the end of times. In fact, our religion is enjoying a huge resurgence among our young which is very encouraging. Our churches are full to bursting point and young people are going on pilgrimages to experience all the riches. l In small areas perhaps, but there is no doubt that the major religions are declining. People don't have to declare atheism to be unbelievers. I do not profess to be an atheist and yet would never voluntarily attend a church. I'm talking about cities and entire countries. I'm talking about millions of people not just some small backwater. Religiosity is about 98% Orthodoxy isn't declining my friend. In fact, it is expanding at a very fast rate. Catholicism has some structural problems giving it a bad name, but when they sort it, I expect them to rebound too. Your last sentence means you profess to believe in a higher power. Also, many Christians ticked the "no religion" or Atheist box in the census. That is what I did on our census form. Despite going to church most Sundays and being heavily invested in our parish. I did that, because for the first time ever, I am starting to live in fear because of my Christian beliefs. I do believe that the State will try to undermine Christian families and Christian values in the very near future. In fact, it is prophesized in our Bible (Apocalypse). And just about every prophecy so far has ended up being true. They will do that to cut people off from their support and family so that the Government can control people more and be all powerful. In 3rd world and developing countries maybe, but there are numerous documentaries and studies on the decline of organized and active religion. Christianity is deeply embedded in our culture (unfortunately). Christians fearing that their beliefs are under attack are being either sensitive or paranoid. I remember Scott Morrison claiming discrimination for his stance on gay marriage being attacked. What idiots like him need to accept is that religion does not and should not protect your beliefs from criticism. If you can't handle the criticism, do not publicly voice beliefs. I respect people, not their religious beliefs. I am not an atheist. However my definition of a higher power would significantly differ from yours. You're entitled to interpret things the way you want. You can define this God however you wish. It is of zero consequence to me as our religion should be of zero consequence to you, unless of course you actually do something quite brave and try to learn something. Lol..... I assure you I am learning a lot. I belong to a fraternity not blinded by a single religion ;) No you are not learning at all. You know absolutely nothing, just swallowing the Atheistic narrative from a point of ignorance. In fact, that is the downfall of Atheism. So many people who profess Atheism actually know nothing or very little and give Atheism a very bad name. You go on a pilgrimage and see for yourself and experience it. Then I can say you have made an effort to learn. You are in no position to say that God doesn't exist. In fact no one is. You are terrible at paraphrasing. I have not told you what fraternity I belong to but suffice to say it incorporates several elements which your religion also teaches. Some of your holy buildings and locations are also taught. I find it rich that you are telling me what I do and do not know. Once again I am not an atheist. I just don't believe in a personal God nor a God that has the ability to solve all the problems of the world and doesn't. I would not say that God does not exist because you have not defined what God is. You have actually told me. You are a Free Mason. What is odd, is not the fact that you believe in a deity, but that you were arrogant enough to say that your fraternity is not blinded or limited by religion. Sounds good, but there is a wee problem. Your "fraternity" excludes women. If you claim to be at one with a deity (a condition of you being a Free Mason) then why would you exclude women from the truth? It seems that your "fraternity" isn't quite there compared to religion. You are a brotherhood, whereas my religion is not only a brotherhood but a sisterhood too. Arrogant to state facts? I can tell you that all religions are accepted by masons as well as those who do not profess to a religion at all. There is only one requirement. The fraternity isn't meant to compare to religion. It's not a religion but it is an educational organization. Women were never masons in the time that the fraternity was created. As someone who believes in culture and tradition you should understand this. This is not a contest.
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mouflonrouge
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.8K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI find the pie in the face just an example of cranky old white male privelege. Atheism is verging on 25% in the Australia census, reflecting what is happening around the world. I expect atheism & agnosticism to reach 51% majority within 10 years & atheism outright majority in about 50 years (people's fear of dying will delay it being sooner) Actually, it's all about stages of life. People who are not religious today, will become religious later in life. Also, meany people who declared 'no religion" (like me) are not Atheist. Sorry to burst your little bubble. But I find it is of no concern to the Government exactly what my religious beliefs are. Plus, I do predict that one day, religious people will be persecuted (familiar story). Just like in Finland where parents with religious beliefs have their kids taken from them because they are Christian (yes it's true and it's happening now). This is where Australia is headed. Religion is becoming less and less prevalent. Parents enforcing their religious beliefs and lifestyle on children to me is abuse. The children have no option but to accept their parents lifestyle. It's not! Some religions will be going on for thousands of years to the end of times. In fact, our religion is enjoying a huge resurgence among our young which is very encouraging. Our churches are full to bursting point and young people are going on pilgrimages to experience all the riches. l In small areas perhaps, but there is no doubt that the major religions are declining. People don't have to declare atheism to be unbelievers. I do not profess to be an atheist and yet would never voluntarily attend a church. I'm talking about cities and entire countries. I'm talking about millions of people not just some small backwater. Religiosity is about 98% Orthodoxy isn't declining my friend. In fact, it is expanding at a very fast rate. Catholicism has some structural problems giving it a bad name, but when they sort it, I expect them to rebound too. Your last sentence means you profess to believe in a higher power. Also, many Christians ticked the "no religion" or Atheist box in the census. That is what I did on our census form. Despite going to church most Sundays and being heavily invested in our parish. I did that, because for the first time ever, I am starting to live in fear because of my Christian beliefs. I do believe that the State will try to undermine Christian families and Christian values in the very near future. In fact, it is prophesized in our Bible (Apocalypse). And just about every prophecy so far has ended up being true. They will do that to cut people off from their support and family so that the Government can control people more and be all powerful. In 3rd world and developing countries maybe, but there are numerous documentaries and studies on the decline of organized and active religion. Christianity is deeply embedded in our culture (unfortunately). Christians fearing that their beliefs are under attack are being either sensitive or paranoid. I remember Scott Morrison claiming discrimination for his stance on gay marriage being attacked. What idiots like him need to accept is that religion does not and should not protect your beliefs from criticism. If you can't handle the criticism, do not publicly voice beliefs. I respect people, not their religious beliefs. I am not an atheist. However my definition of a higher power would significantly differ from yours. You're entitled to interpret things the way you want. You can define this God however you wish. It is of zero consequence to me as our religion should be of zero consequence to you, unless of course you actually do something quite brave and try to learn something. Lol..... I assure you I am learning a lot. I belong to a fraternity not blinded by a single religion ;) No you are not learning at all. You know absolutely nothing, just swallowing the Atheistic narrative from a point of ignorance. In fact, that is the downfall of Atheism. So many people who profess Atheism actually know nothing or very little and give Atheism a very bad name. You go on a pilgrimage and see for yourself and experience it. Then I can say you have made an effort to learn. You are in no position to say that God doesn't exist. In fact no one is. You are terrible at paraphrasing. I have not told you what fraternity I belong to but suffice to say it incorporates several elements which your religion also teaches. Some of your holy buildings and locations are also taught. I find it rich that you are telling me what I do and do not know. Once again I am not an atheist. I just don't believe in a personal God nor a God that has the ability to solve all the problems of the world and doesn't. I would not say that God does not exist because you have not defined what God is. You have actually told me. You are a Free Mason. What is odd, is not the fact that you believe in a deity, but that you were arrogant enough to say that your fraternity is not blinded or limited by religion. Sounds good, but there is a wee problem. Your "fraternity" excludes women. If you claim to be at one with a deity (a condition of you being a Free Mason) then why would you exclude women from the truth? It seems that your "fraternity" isn't quite there compared to religion. You are a brotherhood, whereas my religion is not only a brotherhood but a sisterhood too. Arrogant to state facts? I can tell you that all religions are accepted by masons as well as those who do not profess to a religion at all. There is only one requirement. The fraternity isn't meant to compare to religion. It's not a religion but it is an educational organization. Women were never masons in the time that the fraternity was created. As someone who believes in culture and tradition you should understand this. This is not a contest. Yes you accept all religions but you don't accept women. Interesting! Other religions accept other religions too, inluding Muslims. It's not our remit to exclude anyone. Our religion is an educational institution as well. We have a number of private schools around Australia, and they are very highly regarded. We even have Medical Centres, Retirement Villages, Child Care Centres and Playgroups.
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BETHFC
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.2K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI find the pie in the face just an example of cranky old white male privelege. Atheism is verging on 25% in the Australia census, reflecting what is happening around the world. I expect atheism & agnosticism to reach 51% majority within 10 years & atheism outright majority in about 50 years (people's fear of dying will delay it being sooner) Actually, it's all about stages of life. People who are not religious today, will become religious later in life. Also, meany people who declared 'no religion" (like me) are not Atheist. Sorry to burst your little bubble. But I find it is of no concern to the Government exactly what my religious beliefs are. Plus, I do predict that one day, religious people will be persecuted (familiar story). Just like in Finland where parents with religious beliefs have their kids taken from them because they are Christian (yes it's true and it's happening now). This is where Australia is headed. Religion is becoming less and less prevalent. Parents enforcing their religious beliefs and lifestyle on children to me is abuse. The children have no option but to accept their parents lifestyle. It's not! Some religions will be going on for thousands of years to the end of times. In fact, our religion is enjoying a huge resurgence among our young which is very encouraging. Our churches are full to bursting point and young people are going on pilgrimages to experience all the riches. l In small areas perhaps, but there is no doubt that the major religions are declining. People don't have to declare atheism to be unbelievers. I do not profess to be an atheist and yet would never voluntarily attend a church. I'm talking about cities and entire countries. I'm talking about millions of people not just some small backwater. Religiosity is about 98% Orthodoxy isn't declining my friend. In fact, it is expanding at a very fast rate. Catholicism has some structural problems giving it a bad name, but when they sort it, I expect them to rebound too. Your last sentence means you profess to believe in a higher power. Also, many Christians ticked the "no religion" or Atheist box in the census. That is what I did on our census form. Despite going to church most Sundays and being heavily invested in our parish. I did that, because for the first time ever, I am starting to live in fear because of my Christian beliefs. I do believe that the State will try to undermine Christian families and Christian values in the very near future. In fact, it is prophesized in our Bible (Apocalypse). And just about every prophecy so far has ended up being true. They will do that to cut people off from their support and family so that the Government can control people more and be all powerful. In 3rd world and developing countries maybe, but there are numerous documentaries and studies on the decline of organized and active religion. Christianity is deeply embedded in our culture (unfortunately). Christians fearing that their beliefs are under attack are being either sensitive or paranoid. I remember Scott Morrison claiming discrimination for his stance on gay marriage being attacked. What idiots like him need to accept is that religion does not and should not protect your beliefs from criticism. If you can't handle the criticism, do not publicly voice beliefs. I respect people, not their religious beliefs. I am not an atheist. However my definition of a higher power would significantly differ from yours. You're entitled to interpret things the way you want. You can define this God however you wish. It is of zero consequence to me as our religion should be of zero consequence to you, unless of course you actually do something quite brave and try to learn something. Lol..... I assure you I am learning a lot. I belong to a fraternity not blinded by a single religion ;) No you are not learning at all. You know absolutely nothing, just swallowing the Atheistic narrative from a point of ignorance. In fact, that is the downfall of Atheism. So many people who profess Atheism actually know nothing or very little and give Atheism a very bad name. You go on a pilgrimage and see for yourself and experience it. Then I can say you have made an effort to learn. You are in no position to say that God doesn't exist. In fact no one is. You are terrible at paraphrasing. I have not told you what fraternity I belong to but suffice to say it incorporates several elements which your religion also teaches. Some of your holy buildings and locations are also taught. I find it rich that you are telling me what I do and do not know. Once again I am not an atheist. I just don't believe in a personal God nor a God that has the ability to solve all the problems of the world and doesn't. I would not say that God does not exist because you have not defined what God is. You have actually told me. You are a Free Mason. What is odd, is not the fact that you believe in a deity, but that you were arrogant enough to say that your fraternity is not blinded or limited by religion. Sounds good, but there is a wee problem. Your "fraternity" excludes women. If you claim to be at one with a deity (a condition of you being a Free Mason) then why would you exclude women from the truth? It seems that your "fraternity" isn't quite there compared to religion. You are a brotherhood, whereas my religion is not only a brotherhood but a sisterhood too. Arrogant to state facts? I can tell you that all religions are accepted by masons as well as those who do not profess to a religion at all. There is only one requirement. The fraternity isn't meant to compare to religion. It's not a religion but it is an educational organization. Women were never masons in the time that the fraternity was created. As someone who believes in culture and tradition you should understand this. This is not a contest. Yes you accept all religions but you don't accept women. Interesting! Other religions accept other religions too, inluding Muslims. It's not our remit to exclude anyone. Our religion is an educational institution as well. We have a number of private schools around Australia, and they are very highly regarded. We even have Medical Centres, Retirement Villages, Child Care Centres and Playgroups. Like I said, were women masons in the 1600's? Tradition, i'd expect you to understand it. Other religions have killed each other for thousands of years.....
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mouflonrouge
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.8K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI find the pie in the face just an example of cranky old white male privelege. Atheism is verging on 25% in the Australia census, reflecting what is happening around the world. I expect atheism & agnosticism to reach 51% majority within 10 years & atheism outright majority in about 50 years (people's fear of dying will delay it being sooner) Actually, it's all about stages of life. People who are not religious today, will become religious later in life. Also, meany people who declared 'no religion" (like me) are not Atheist. Sorry to burst your little bubble. But I find it is of no concern to the Government exactly what my religious beliefs are. Plus, I do predict that one day, religious people will be persecuted (familiar story). Just like in Finland where parents with religious beliefs have their kids taken from them because they are Christian (yes it's true and it's happening now). This is where Australia is headed. Religion is becoming less and less prevalent. Parents enforcing their religious beliefs and lifestyle on children to me is abuse. The children have no option but to accept their parents lifestyle. It's not! Some religions will be going on for thousands of years to the end of times. In fact, our religion is enjoying a huge resurgence among our young which is very encouraging. Our churches are full to bursting point and young people are going on pilgrimages to experience all the riches. l In small areas perhaps, but there is no doubt that the major religions are declining. People don't have to declare atheism to be unbelievers. I do not profess to be an atheist and yet would never voluntarily attend a church. I'm talking about cities and entire countries. I'm talking about millions of people not just some small backwater. Religiosity is about 98% Orthodoxy isn't declining my friend. In fact, it is expanding at a very fast rate. Catholicism has some structural problems giving it a bad name, but when they sort it, I expect them to rebound too. Your last sentence means you profess to believe in a higher power. Also, many Christians ticked the "no religion" or Atheist box in the census. That is what I did on our census form. Despite going to church most Sundays and being heavily invested in our parish. I did that, because for the first time ever, I am starting to live in fear because of my Christian beliefs. I do believe that the State will try to undermine Christian families and Christian values in the very near future. In fact, it is prophesized in our Bible (Apocalypse). And just about every prophecy so far has ended up being true. They will do that to cut people off from their support and family so that the Government can control people more and be all powerful. In 3rd world and developing countries maybe, but there are numerous documentaries and studies on the decline of organized and active religion. Christianity is deeply embedded in our culture (unfortunately). Christians fearing that their beliefs are under attack are being either sensitive or paranoid. I remember Scott Morrison claiming discrimination for his stance on gay marriage being attacked. What idiots like him need to accept is that religion does not and should not protect your beliefs from criticism. If you can't handle the criticism, do not publicly voice beliefs. I respect people, not their religious beliefs. I am not an atheist. However my definition of a higher power would significantly differ from yours. You're entitled to interpret things the way you want. You can define this God however you wish. It is of zero consequence to me as our religion should be of zero consequence to you, unless of course you actually do something quite brave and try to learn something. Lol..... I assure you I am learning a lot. I belong to a fraternity not blinded by a single religion ;) No you are not learning at all. You know absolutely nothing, just swallowing the Atheistic narrative from a point of ignorance. In fact, that is the downfall of Atheism. So many people who profess Atheism actually know nothing or very little and give Atheism a very bad name. You go on a pilgrimage and see for yourself and experience it. Then I can say you have made an effort to learn. You are in no position to say that God doesn't exist. In fact no one is. You are terrible at paraphrasing. I have not told you what fraternity I belong to but suffice to say it incorporates several elements which your religion also teaches. Some of your holy buildings and locations are also taught. I find it rich that you are telling me what I do and do not know. Once again I am not an atheist. I just don't believe in a personal God nor a God that has the ability to solve all the problems of the world and doesn't. I would not say that God does not exist because you have not defined what God is. You have actually told me. You are a Free Mason. What is odd, is not the fact that you believe in a deity, but that you were arrogant enough to say that your fraternity is not blinded or limited by religion. Sounds good, but there is a wee problem. Your "fraternity" excludes women. If you claim to be at one with a deity (a condition of you being a Free Mason) then why would you exclude women from the truth? It seems that your "fraternity" isn't quite there compared to religion. You are a brotherhood, whereas my religion is not only a brotherhood but a sisterhood too. Arrogant to state facts? I can tell you that all religions are accepted by masons as well as those who do not profess to a religion at all. There is only one requirement. The fraternity isn't meant to compare to religion. It's not a religion but it is an educational organization. Women were never masons in the time that the fraternity was created. As someone who believes in culture and tradition you should understand this. This is not a contest. Yes you accept all religions but you don't accept women. Interesting! Other religions accept other religions too, inluding Muslims. It's not our remit to exclude anyone. Our religion is an educational institution as well. We have a number of private schools around Australia, and they are very highly regarded. We even have Medical Centres, Retirement Villages, Child Care Centres and Playgroups. Like I said, were women masons in the 1600's? Tradition, i'd expect you to understand it. Other religions have killed each other for thousands of years..... We accepted women 2000 years ago. I am all for tradition, but if you claim to transcend other religions like you do, then why exclude 50% of the population to something they have equal right to? You put Free Masonry forward as a better alternative to religion. I am not going to argue whether that is true or not. To each their own, but if you claim it to transcend religion because it doesn't exclude other religions, then why exclude women? It just doesn't add up.
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BETHFC
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.2K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI find the pie in the face just an example of cranky old white male privelege. Atheism is verging on 25% in the Australia census, reflecting what is happening around the world. I expect atheism & agnosticism to reach 51% majority within 10 years & atheism outright majority in about 50 years (people's fear of dying will delay it being sooner) Actually, it's all about stages of life. People who are not religious today, will become religious later in life. Also, meany people who declared 'no religion" (like me) are not Atheist. Sorry to burst your little bubble. But I find it is of no concern to the Government exactly what my religious beliefs are. Plus, I do predict that one day, religious people will be persecuted (familiar story). Just like in Finland where parents with religious beliefs have their kids taken from them because they are Christian (yes it's true and it's happening now). This is where Australia is headed. Religion is becoming less and less prevalent. Parents enforcing their religious beliefs and lifestyle on children to me is abuse. The children have no option but to accept their parents lifestyle. It's not! Some religions will be going on for thousands of years to the end of times. In fact, our religion is enjoying a huge resurgence among our young which is very encouraging. Our churches are full to bursting point and young people are going on pilgrimages to experience all the riches. l In small areas perhaps, but there is no doubt that the major religions are declining. People don't have to declare atheism to be unbelievers. I do not profess to be an atheist and yet would never voluntarily attend a church. I'm talking about cities and entire countries. I'm talking about millions of people not just some small backwater. Religiosity is about 98% Orthodoxy isn't declining my friend. In fact, it is expanding at a very fast rate. Catholicism has some structural problems giving it a bad name, but when they sort it, I expect them to rebound too. Your last sentence means you profess to believe in a higher power. Also, many Christians ticked the "no religion" or Atheist box in the census. That is what I did on our census form. Despite going to church most Sundays and being heavily invested in our parish. I did that, because for the first time ever, I am starting to live in fear because of my Christian beliefs. I do believe that the State will try to undermine Christian families and Christian values in the very near future. In fact, it is prophesized in our Bible (Apocalypse). And just about every prophecy so far has ended up being true. They will do that to cut people off from their support and family so that the Government can control people more and be all powerful. In 3rd world and developing countries maybe, but there are numerous documentaries and studies on the decline of organized and active religion. Christianity is deeply embedded in our culture (unfortunately). Christians fearing that their beliefs are under attack are being either sensitive or paranoid. I remember Scott Morrison claiming discrimination for his stance on gay marriage being attacked. What idiots like him need to accept is that religion does not and should not protect your beliefs from criticism. If you can't handle the criticism, do not publicly voice beliefs. I respect people, not their religious beliefs. I am not an atheist. However my definition of a higher power would significantly differ from yours. You're entitled to interpret things the way you want. You can define this God however you wish. It is of zero consequence to me as our religion should be of zero consequence to you, unless of course you actually do something quite brave and try to learn something. Lol..... I assure you I am learning a lot. I belong to a fraternity not blinded by a single religion ;) No you are not learning at all. You know absolutely nothing, just swallowing the Atheistic narrative from a point of ignorance. In fact, that is the downfall of Atheism. So many people who profess Atheism actually know nothing or very little and give Atheism a very bad name. You go on a pilgrimage and see for yourself and experience it. Then I can say you have made an effort to learn. You are in no position to say that God doesn't exist. In fact no one is. You are terrible at paraphrasing. I have not told you what fraternity I belong to but suffice to say it incorporates several elements which your religion also teaches. Some of your holy buildings and locations are also taught. I find it rich that you are telling me what I do and do not know. Once again I am not an atheist. I just don't believe in a personal God nor a God that has the ability to solve all the problems of the world and doesn't. I would not say that God does not exist because you have not defined what God is. You have actually told me. You are a Free Mason. What is odd, is not the fact that you believe in a deity, but that you were arrogant enough to say that your fraternity is not blinded or limited by religion. Sounds good, but there is a wee problem. Your "fraternity" excludes women. If you claim to be at one with a deity (a condition of you being a Free Mason) then why would you exclude women from the truth? It seems that your "fraternity" isn't quite there compared to religion. You are a brotherhood, whereas my religion is not only a brotherhood but a sisterhood too. Arrogant to state facts? I can tell you that all religions are accepted by masons as well as those who do not profess to a religion at all. There is only one requirement. The fraternity isn't meant to compare to religion. It's not a religion but it is an educational organization. Women were never masons in the time that the fraternity was created. As someone who believes in culture and tradition you should understand this. This is not a contest. Yes you accept all religions but you don't accept women. Interesting! Other religions accept other religions too, inluding Muslims. It's not our remit to exclude anyone. Our religion is an educational institution as well. We have a number of private schools around Australia, and they are very highly regarded. We even have Medical Centres, Retirement Villages, Child Care Centres and Playgroups. Like I said, were women masons in the 1600's? Tradition, i'd expect you to understand it. Other religions have killed each other for thousands of years..... We accepted women 2000 years ago. I am all for tradition, but if you claim to transcend other religions like you do, then why exclude 50% of the population to something they have equal right to? You put Free Masonry forward as a better alternative to religion. I am not going to argue whether that is true or not. To each their own, but if you claim it to transcend religion because it doesn't exclude other religions, then why exclude women? It just doesn't add up. Like I said, there were no women masons in the 1600's nor women involved with the origins of the order. That is why. Why do you keep asking the same question?
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mouflonrouge
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.8K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI find the pie in the face just an example of cranky old white male privelege. Atheism is verging on 25% in the Australia census, reflecting what is happening around the world. I expect atheism & agnosticism to reach 51% majority within 10 years & atheism outright majority in about 50 years (people's fear of dying will delay it being sooner) Actually, it's all about stages of life. People who are not religious today, will become religious later in life. Also, meany people who declared 'no religion" (like me) are not Atheist. Sorry to burst your little bubble. But I find it is of no concern to the Government exactly what my religious beliefs are. Plus, I do predict that one day, religious people will be persecuted (familiar story). Just like in Finland where parents with religious beliefs have their kids taken from them because they are Christian (yes it's true and it's happening now). This is where Australia is headed. Religion is becoming less and less prevalent. Parents enforcing their religious beliefs and lifestyle on children to me is abuse. The children have no option but to accept their parents lifestyle. It's not! Some religions will be going on for thousands of years to the end of times. In fact, our religion is enjoying a huge resurgence among our young which is very encouraging. Our churches are full to bursting point and young people are going on pilgrimages to experience all the riches. l In small areas perhaps, but there is no doubt that the major religions are declining. People don't have to declare atheism to be unbelievers. I do not profess to be an atheist and yet would never voluntarily attend a church. I'm talking about cities and entire countries. I'm talking about millions of people not just some small backwater. Religiosity is about 98% Orthodoxy isn't declining my friend. In fact, it is expanding at a very fast rate. Catholicism has some structural problems giving it a bad name, but when they sort it, I expect them to rebound too. Your last sentence means you profess to believe in a higher power. Also, many Christians ticked the "no religion" or Atheist box in the census. That is what I did on our census form. Despite going to church most Sundays and being heavily invested in our parish. I did that, because for the first time ever, I am starting to live in fear because of my Christian beliefs. I do believe that the State will try to undermine Christian families and Christian values in the very near future. In fact, it is prophesized in our Bible (Apocalypse). And just about every prophecy so far has ended up being true. They will do that to cut people off from their support and family so that the Government can control people more and be all powerful. In 3rd world and developing countries maybe, but there are numerous documentaries and studies on the decline of organized and active religion. Christianity is deeply embedded in our culture (unfortunately). Christians fearing that their beliefs are under attack are being either sensitive or paranoid. I remember Scott Morrison claiming discrimination for his stance on gay marriage being attacked. What idiots like him need to accept is that religion does not and should not protect your beliefs from criticism. If you can't handle the criticism, do not publicly voice beliefs. I respect people, not their religious beliefs. I am not an atheist. However my definition of a higher power would significantly differ from yours. You're entitled to interpret things the way you want. You can define this God however you wish. It is of zero consequence to me as our religion should be of zero consequence to you, unless of course you actually do something quite brave and try to learn something. Lol..... I assure you I am learning a lot. I belong to a fraternity not blinded by a single religion ;) No you are not learning at all. You know absolutely nothing, just swallowing the Atheistic narrative from a point of ignorance. In fact, that is the downfall of Atheism. So many people who profess Atheism actually know nothing or very little and give Atheism a very bad name. You go on a pilgrimage and see for yourself and experience it. Then I can say you have made an effort to learn. You are in no position to say that God doesn't exist. In fact no one is. You are terrible at paraphrasing. I have not told you what fraternity I belong to but suffice to say it incorporates several elements which your religion also teaches. Some of your holy buildings and locations are also taught. I find it rich that you are telling me what I do and do not know. Once again I am not an atheist. I just don't believe in a personal God nor a God that has the ability to solve all the problems of the world and doesn't. I would not say that God does not exist because you have not defined what God is. You have actually told me. You are a Free Mason. What is odd, is not the fact that you believe in a deity, but that you were arrogant enough to say that your fraternity is not blinded or limited by religion. Sounds good, but there is a wee problem. Your "fraternity" excludes women. If you claim to be at one with a deity (a condition of you being a Free Mason) then why would you exclude women from the truth? It seems that your "fraternity" isn't quite there compared to religion. You are a brotherhood, whereas my religion is not only a brotherhood but a sisterhood too. Arrogant to state facts? I can tell you that all religions are accepted by masons as well as those who do not profess to a religion at all. There is only one requirement. The fraternity isn't meant to compare to religion. It's not a religion but it is an educational organization. Women were never masons in the time that the fraternity was created. As someone who believes in culture and tradition you should understand this. This is not a contest. Yes you accept all religions but you don't accept women. Interesting! Other religions accept other religions too, inluding Muslims. It's not our remit to exclude anyone. Our religion is an educational institution as well. We have a number of private schools around Australia, and they are very highly regarded. We even have Medical Centres, Retirement Villages, Child Care Centres and Playgroups. Like I said, were women masons in the 1600's? Tradition, i'd expect you to understand it. Other religions have killed each other for thousands of years..... We accepted women 2000 years ago. I am all for tradition, but if you claim to transcend other religions like you do, then why exclude 50% of the population to something they have equal right to? You put Free Masonry forward as a better alternative to religion. I am not going to argue whether that is true or not. To each their own, but if you claim it to transcend religion because it doesn't exclude other religions, then why exclude women? It just doesn't add up. Like I said, there were no women masons in the 1600's nor women involved with the origins of the order. That is why. Why do you keep asking the same question? Because you mentioned the virtues of Free Masonry as not being limited to a single religion and yet it's limited to one gender at the expense of the other gender. Can you imagine if religion exluded women. basically we would be saying that Women are not worthy of God or salvation, and that's just bogus.
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BETHFC
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.2K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI find the pie in the face just an example of cranky old white male privelege. Atheism is verging on 25% in the Australia census, reflecting what is happening around the world. I expect atheism & agnosticism to reach 51% majority within 10 years & atheism outright majority in about 50 years (people's fear of dying will delay it being sooner) Actually, it's all about stages of life. People who are not religious today, will become religious later in life. Also, meany people who declared 'no religion" (like me) are not Atheist. Sorry to burst your little bubble. But I find it is of no concern to the Government exactly what my religious beliefs are. Plus, I do predict that one day, religious people will be persecuted (familiar story). Just like in Finland where parents with religious beliefs have their kids taken from them because they are Christian (yes it's true and it's happening now). This is where Australia is headed. Religion is becoming less and less prevalent. Parents enforcing their religious beliefs and lifestyle on children to me is abuse. The children have no option but to accept their parents lifestyle. It's not! Some religions will be going on for thousands of years to the end of times. In fact, our religion is enjoying a huge resurgence among our young which is very encouraging. Our churches are full to bursting point and young people are going on pilgrimages to experience all the riches. l In small areas perhaps, but there is no doubt that the major religions are declining. People don't have to declare atheism to be unbelievers. I do not profess to be an atheist and yet would never voluntarily attend a church. I'm talking about cities and entire countries. I'm talking about millions of people not just some small backwater. Religiosity is about 98% Orthodoxy isn't declining my friend. In fact, it is expanding at a very fast rate. Catholicism has some structural problems giving it a bad name, but when they sort it, I expect them to rebound too. Your last sentence means you profess to believe in a higher power. Also, many Christians ticked the "no religion" or Atheist box in the census. That is what I did on our census form. Despite going to church most Sundays and being heavily invested in our parish. I did that, because for the first time ever, I am starting to live in fear because of my Christian beliefs. I do believe that the State will try to undermine Christian families and Christian values in the very near future. In fact, it is prophesized in our Bible (Apocalypse). And just about every prophecy so far has ended up being true. They will do that to cut people off from their support and family so that the Government can control people more and be all powerful. In 3rd world and developing countries maybe, but there are numerous documentaries and studies on the decline of organized and active religion. Christianity is deeply embedded in our culture (unfortunately). Christians fearing that their beliefs are under attack are being either sensitive or paranoid. I remember Scott Morrison claiming discrimination for his stance on gay marriage being attacked. What idiots like him need to accept is that religion does not and should not protect your beliefs from criticism. If you can't handle the criticism, do not publicly voice beliefs. I respect people, not their religious beliefs. I am not an atheist. However my definition of a higher power would significantly differ from yours. You're entitled to interpret things the way you want. You can define this God however you wish. It is of zero consequence to me as our religion should be of zero consequence to you, unless of course you actually do something quite brave and try to learn something. Lol..... I assure you I am learning a lot. I belong to a fraternity not blinded by a single religion ;) No you are not learning at all. You know absolutely nothing, just swallowing the Atheistic narrative from a point of ignorance. In fact, that is the downfall of Atheism. So many people who profess Atheism actually know nothing or very little and give Atheism a very bad name. You go on a pilgrimage and see for yourself and experience it. Then I can say you have made an effort to learn. You are in no position to say that God doesn't exist. In fact no one is. You are terrible at paraphrasing. I have not told you what fraternity I belong to but suffice to say it incorporates several elements which your religion also teaches. Some of your holy buildings and locations are also taught. I find it rich that you are telling me what I do and do not know. Once again I am not an atheist. I just don't believe in a personal God nor a God that has the ability to solve all the problems of the world and doesn't. I would not say that God does not exist because you have not defined what God is. You have actually told me. You are a Free Mason. What is odd, is not the fact that you believe in a deity, but that you were arrogant enough to say that your fraternity is not blinded or limited by religion. Sounds good, but there is a wee problem. Your "fraternity" excludes women. If you claim to be at one with a deity (a condition of you being a Free Mason) then why would you exclude women from the truth? It seems that your "fraternity" isn't quite there compared to religion. You are a brotherhood, whereas my religion is not only a brotherhood but a sisterhood too. Arrogant to state facts? I can tell you that all religions are accepted by masons as well as those who do not profess to a religion at all. There is only one requirement. The fraternity isn't meant to compare to religion. It's not a religion but it is an educational organization. Women were never masons in the time that the fraternity was created. As someone who believes in culture and tradition you should understand this. This is not a contest. Yes you accept all religions but you don't accept women. Interesting! Other religions accept other religions too, inluding Muslims. It's not our remit to exclude anyone. Our religion is an educational institution as well. We have a number of private schools around Australia, and they are very highly regarded. We even have Medical Centres, Retirement Villages, Child Care Centres and Playgroups. Like I said, were women masons in the 1600's? Tradition, i'd expect you to understand it. Other religions have killed each other for thousands of years..... We accepted women 2000 years ago. I am all for tradition, but if you claim to transcend other religions like you do, then why exclude 50% of the population to something they have equal right to? You put Free Masonry forward as a better alternative to religion. I am not going to argue whether that is true or not. To each their own, but if you claim it to transcend religion because it doesn't exclude other religions, then why exclude women? It just doesn't add up. Like I said, there were no women masons in the 1600's nor women involved with the origins of the order. That is why. Why do you keep asking the same question? Because you mentioned the virtues of Free Masonry as not being limited to a single religion and yet it's limited to one gender at the expense of the other gender. Can you imagine if religion exluded women. basically we would be saying that Women are not worthy of God or salvation, and that's just bogus. But religion did not start with exclusive membership. Masonry did. Masons were exclusively men. What purpose is served by changing when the core tenant of the order is tradition? You clearly do not understand.
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Aljay
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With due respect to your conversation, could I politely suggest another thread might be more suitable?
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BETHFC
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+xWith due respect to your conversation, could I politely suggest another thread might be more suitable? I'm done ;)
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mouflonrouge
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI find the pie in the face just an example of cranky old white male privelege. Atheism is verging on 25% in the Australia census, reflecting what is happening around the world. I expect atheism & agnosticism to reach 51% majority within 10 years & atheism outright majority in about 50 years (people's fear of dying will delay it being sooner) Actually, it's all about stages of life. People who are not religious today, will become religious later in life. Also, meany people who declared 'no religion" (like me) are not Atheist. Sorry to burst your little bubble. But I find it is of no concern to the Government exactly what my religious beliefs are. Plus, I do predict that one day, religious people will be persecuted (familiar story). Just like in Finland where parents with religious beliefs have their kids taken from them because they are Christian (yes it's true and it's happening now). This is where Australia is headed. Religion is becoming less and less prevalent. Parents enforcing their religious beliefs and lifestyle on children to me is abuse. The children have no option but to accept their parents lifestyle. It's not! Some religions will be going on for thousands of years to the end of times. In fact, our religion is enjoying a huge resurgence among our young which is very encouraging. Our churches are full to bursting point and young people are going on pilgrimages to experience all the riches. l In small areas perhaps, but there is no doubt that the major religions are declining. People don't have to declare atheism to be unbelievers. I do not profess to be an atheist and yet would never voluntarily attend a church. I'm talking about cities and entire countries. I'm talking about millions of people not just some small backwater. Religiosity is about 98% Orthodoxy isn't declining my friend. In fact, it is expanding at a very fast rate. Catholicism has some structural problems giving it a bad name, but when they sort it, I expect them to rebound too. Your last sentence means you profess to believe in a higher power. Also, many Christians ticked the "no religion" or Atheist box in the census. That is what I did on our census form. Despite going to church most Sundays and being heavily invested in our parish. I did that, because for the first time ever, I am starting to live in fear because of my Christian beliefs. I do believe that the State will try to undermine Christian families and Christian values in the very near future. In fact, it is prophesized in our Bible (Apocalypse). And just about every prophecy so far has ended up being true. They will do that to cut people off from their support and family so that the Government can control people more and be all powerful. In 3rd world and developing countries maybe, but there are numerous documentaries and studies on the decline of organized and active religion. Christianity is deeply embedded in our culture (unfortunately). Christians fearing that their beliefs are under attack are being either sensitive or paranoid. I remember Scott Morrison claiming discrimination for his stance on gay marriage being attacked. What idiots like him need to accept is that religion does not and should not protect your beliefs from criticism. If you can't handle the criticism, do not publicly voice beliefs. I respect people, not their religious beliefs. I am not an atheist. However my definition of a higher power would significantly differ from yours. You're entitled to interpret things the way you want. You can define this God however you wish. It is of zero consequence to me as our religion should be of zero consequence to you, unless of course you actually do something quite brave and try to learn something. Lol..... I assure you I am learning a lot. I belong to a fraternity not blinded by a single religion ;) No you are not learning at all. You know absolutely nothing, just swallowing the Atheistic narrative from a point of ignorance. In fact, that is the downfall of Atheism. So many people who profess Atheism actually know nothing or very little and give Atheism a very bad name. You go on a pilgrimage and see for yourself and experience it. Then I can say you have made an effort to learn. You are in no position to say that God doesn't exist. In fact no one is. You are terrible at paraphrasing. I have not told you what fraternity I belong to but suffice to say it incorporates several elements which your religion also teaches. Some of your holy buildings and locations are also taught. I find it rich that you are telling me what I do and do not know. Once again I am not an atheist. I just don't believe in a personal God nor a God that has the ability to solve all the problems of the world and doesn't. I would not say that God does not exist because you have not defined what God is. You have actually told me. You are a Free Mason. What is odd, is not the fact that you believe in a deity, but that you were arrogant enough to say that your fraternity is not blinded or limited by religion. Sounds good, but there is a wee problem. Your "fraternity" excludes women. If you claim to be at one with a deity (a condition of you being a Free Mason) then why would you exclude women from the truth? It seems that your "fraternity" isn't quite there compared to religion. You are a brotherhood, whereas my religion is not only a brotherhood but a sisterhood too. Arrogant to state facts? I can tell you that all religions are accepted by masons as well as those who do not profess to a religion at all. There is only one requirement. The fraternity isn't meant to compare to religion. It's not a religion but it is an educational organization. Women were never masons in the time that the fraternity was created. As someone who believes in culture and tradition you should understand this. This is not a contest. Yes you accept all religions but you don't accept women. Interesting! Other religions accept other religions too, inluding Muslims. It's not our remit to exclude anyone. Our religion is an educational institution as well. We have a number of private schools around Australia, and they are very highly regarded. We even have Medical Centres, Retirement Villages, Child Care Centres and Playgroups. Like I said, were women masons in the 1600's? Tradition, i'd expect you to understand it. Other religions have killed each other for thousands of years..... We accepted women 2000 years ago. I am all for tradition, but if you claim to transcend other religions like you do, then why exclude 50% of the population to something they have equal right to? You put Free Masonry forward as a better alternative to religion. I am not going to argue whether that is true or not. To each their own, but if you claim it to transcend religion because it doesn't exclude other religions, then why exclude women? It just doesn't add up. Like I said, there were no women masons in the 1600's nor women involved with the origins of the order. That is why. Why do you keep asking the same question? Because you mentioned the virtues of Free Masonry as not being limited to a single religion and yet it's limited to one gender at the expense of the other gender. Can you imagine if religion exluded women. basically we would be saying that Women are not worthy of God or salvation, and that's just bogus. But religion did not start with exclusive membership. Masonry did. Masons were exclusively men. What purpose is served by changing when the core tenant of the order is tradition? You clearly do not understand. Oh I don't know about that. We have baptisms which is like the ritual of joining Free Masonry where you are blindfolded etc. What we don't have are annual fees. Most donate however whatever they wish to donate - sometimes money and at other times material things like clothing for the poor. It sounds awfully close to exclusive membership to me.
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mcjules
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+xWith due respect to your conversation, could I politely suggest another thread might be more suitable? Yep. No more off-topic posting about religion in this thread. Start a new one if you really want to continue.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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mouflonrouge
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I'm in favour of a blanket freeze on donations too. But only if that is a total blanket freeze and include Business Council and other interest groups as well as Unions.
That is probably the cleanest and fairest way to have elections on a completely level playing field.
Plus, will need to look at all the loopholes.
If it's not blanket, then I don't support it one bit.
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BETHFC
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+xI'm in favour of a blanket freeze on donations too. But only if that is a total blanket freeze and include Business Council and other interest groups as well as Unions. That is probably the cleanest and fairest way to have elections on a completely level playing field. Plus, will need to look at all the loopholes. If it's not blanket, then I don't support it one bit. It would be difficult to police if you remove only 'some' donations out of fear of corruption. How would you define what is a 'fair' donation and what is not? If you stop corporate/union donations only it's likely that those seeking political favour would start making personal donations.
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mouflonrouge
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+x+xI'm in favour of a blanket freeze on donations too. But only if that is a total blanket freeze and include Business Council and other interest groups as well as Unions. That is probably the cleanest and fairest way to have elections on a completely level playing field. Plus, will need to look at all the loopholes. If it's not blanket, then I don't support it one bit. It would be difficult to police if you remove only 'some' donations out of fear of corruption. How would you define what is a 'fair' donation and what is not? If you stop corporate/union donations only it's likely that those seeking political favour would start making personal donations. That might be true. There are so many loopholes and rorts, it would be difficult to enforce or police. They will always find a way to donate through an intermediary.
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BETHFC
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If parties were not permitted donations and were given a set amount of funding, maybe an amount tied to membership, we wouldn't have issues?
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mouflonrouge
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+xIf parties were not permitted donations and were given a set amount of funding, maybe an amount tied to membership, we wouldn't have issues? Yeh but banning private donations from the public might be going a bit far.
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BETHFC
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+x+xIf parties were not permitted donations and were given a set amount of funding, maybe an amount tied to membership, we wouldn't have issues? Yeh but banning private donations from the public might be going a bit far. You have none or the current policy. Like I said, I believe that if you stop company/corporate donations, they'll just funnel money through individuals and the corruption remains the same.
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mouflonrouge
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+x+x+xIf parties were not permitted donations and were given a set amount of funding, maybe an amount tied to membership, we wouldn't have issues? Yeh but banning private donations from the public might be going a bit far. You have none or the current policy. Like I said, I believe that if you stop company/corporate donations, they'll just funnel money through individuals and the corruption remains the same. But then how are parties suppose to fund themselves to run political campaigns? I'm all for blanket freezes against corporations, lobby groups, businesses, and unions, but forbidding a donation from Jo Bloggs is a bit too far, when these donations are innocent. Do you know how much a political campaign can cost? If candidates have to pay out of their pocket, then that could prevent many people from running on the basis that they can't afford to fork out.
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BETHFC
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+x+x+x+xIf parties were not permitted donations and were given a set amount of funding, maybe an amount tied to membership, we wouldn't have issues? Yeh but banning private donations from the public might be going a bit far. You have none or the current policy. Like I said, I believe that if you stop company/corporate donations, they'll just funnel money through individuals and the corruption remains the same. But then how are parties suppose to fund themselves to run political campaigns? I'm all for blanket freezes against corporations, lobby groups, businesses, and unions, but forbidding a donation from Jo Bloggs is a bit too far, when these donations are innocent. How can you tell what donations are innocent and which ones are corporations flooding money through an individual? If parties get a set amount which is lesser or greater based on the size of their membership then you can control what the parties spend.
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mouflonrouge
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+x+x+x+x+xIf parties were not permitted donations and were given a set amount of funding, maybe an amount tied to membership, we wouldn't have issues? Yeh but banning private donations from the public might be going a bit far. You have none or the current policy. Like I said, I believe that if you stop company/corporate donations, they'll just funnel money through individuals and the corruption remains the same. But then how are parties suppose to fund themselves to run political campaigns? I'm all for blanket freezes against corporations, lobby groups, businesses, and unions, but forbidding a donation from Jo Bloggs is a bit too far, when these donations are innocent. How can you tell what donations are innocent and which ones are corporations flooding money through an individual? If parties get a set amount which is lesser or greater based on the size of their membership then you can control what the parties spend. I don't know how they can tell, but it will have to be policed somehow. Big donations from individuals will undoubtedly come under the microscope by default. For instance, it would look pretty suspicious if an individual made a large donation not commensurate with what they earn or have.
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BETHFC
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+x+x+x+x+x+xIf parties were not permitted donations and were given a set amount of funding, maybe an amount tied to membership, we wouldn't have issues? Yeh but banning private donations from the public might be going a bit far. You have none or the current policy. Like I said, I believe that if you stop company/corporate donations, they'll just funnel money through individuals and the corruption remains the same. But then how are parties suppose to fund themselves to run political campaigns? I'm all for blanket freezes against corporations, lobby groups, businesses, and unions, but forbidding a donation from Jo Bloggs is a bit too far, when these donations are innocent. How can you tell what donations are innocent and which ones are corporations flooding money through an individual? If parties get a set amount which is lesser or greater based on the size of their membership then you can control what the parties spend. I don't know how they can tell, but it will have to be policed somehow. Big donations from individuals will undoubtedly come under the microscope by default. What if a corporation made several hundred donations in the name of their employees to get under the radar. If you make rules you have to police them at a cost.
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mouflonrouge
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIf parties were not permitted donations and were given a set amount of funding, maybe an amount tied to membership, we wouldn't have issues? Yeh but banning private donations from the public might be going a bit far. You have none or the current policy. Like I said, I believe that if you stop company/corporate donations, they'll just funnel money through individuals and the corruption remains the same. But then how are parties suppose to fund themselves to run political campaigns? I'm all for blanket freezes against corporations, lobby groups, businesses, and unions, but forbidding a donation from Jo Bloggs is a bit too far, when these donations are innocent. How can you tell what donations are innocent and which ones are corporations flooding money through an individual? If parties get a set amount which is lesser or greater based on the size of their membership then you can control what the parties spend. I don't know how they can tell, but it will have to be policed somehow. Big donations from individuals will undoubtedly come under the microscope by default. What if a corporation made several hundred donations in the name of their employees to get under the radar. If you make rules you have to police them at a cost. That would come up under the microscope too. Also, a disgruntled employee which does not support that particular party will squeal, and then the game is up for this particular corporation. Also, perhaps introduce some heavy fines to those who try and subvert the laws.
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