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Muz
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI find the pie in the face just an example of cranky old white male privelege. Atheism is verging on 25% in the Australia census, reflecting what is happening around the world. I expect atheism & agnosticism to reach 51% majority within 10 years & atheism outright majority in about 50 years (people's fear of dying will delay it being sooner) Actually, it's all about stages of life. People who are not religious today, will become religious later in life. Also, meany people who declared 'no religion" (like me) are not Atheist. Sorry to burst your little bubble. But I find it is of no concern to the Government exactly what my religious beliefs are. Plus, I do predict that one day, religious people will be persecuted (familiar story). Just like in Finland where parents with religious beliefs have their kids taken from them because they are Christian (yes it's true and it's happening now). This is where Australia is headed. Religion is becoming less and less prevalent. Parents enforcing their religious beliefs and lifestyle on children to me is abuse. The children have no option but to accept their parents lifestyle. It's not! Some religions will be going on for thousands of years to the end of times. In fact, our religion is enjoying a huge resurgence among our young which is very encouraging. Our churches are full to bursting point and young people are going on pilgrimages to experience all the riches. l In small areas perhaps, but there is no doubt that the major religions are declining. People don't have to declare atheism to be unbelievers. I do not profess to be an atheist and yet would never voluntarily attend a church. I'm talking about cities and entire countries. I'm talking about millions of people not just some small backwater. Religiosity is about 98% Orthodoxy isn't declining my friend. In fact, it is expanding at a very fast rate. Catholicism has some structural problems giving it a bad name, but when they sort it, I expect them to rebound too. Your last sentence means you profess to believe in a higher power. Also, many Christians ticked the "no religion" or Atheist box in the census. That is what I did on our census form. Despite going to church most Sundays and being heavily invested in our parish. I did that, because for the first time ever, I am starting to live in fear because of my Christian beliefs. I do believe that the State will try to undermine Christian families and Christian values in the very near future. In fact, it is prophesized in our Bible (Apocalypse). And just about every prophecy so far has ended up being true. They will do that to cut people off from their support and family so that the Government can control people more and be all powerful. In 3rd world and developing countries maybe, but there are numerous documentaries and studies on the decline of organized and active religion. Christianity is deeply embedded in our culture (unfortunately). Christians fearing that their beliefs are under attack are being either sensitive or paranoid. I remember Scott Morrison claiming discrimination for his stance on gay marriage being attacked. What idiots like him need to accept is that religion does not and should not protect your beliefs from criticism. If you can't handle the criticism, do not publicly voice beliefs. I respect people, not their religious beliefs. I am not an atheist. However my definition of a higher power would significantly differ from yours. You're entitled to interpret things the way you want. You can define this God however you wish. It is of zero consequence to me as our religion should be of zero consequence to you, unless of course you actually do something quite brave and try to learn something. Lol..... I assure you I am learning a lot. I belong to a fraternity not blinded by a single religion ;) You are in no position to say that God doesn't exist. In fact no one is. The reverse is equally true. But anyway let's say for a minute I believe in the flying spaghetti Monster. Prove to me that no such deity exists. Thanks in advance. I wouldn't dare to prove you wrong. But I might have a straight jacket for you instead. lol As expected you can't. (Which was no surprise.) Nor can you prove your God exists. Atheists aren't ignorant. In it's simplest form it is somebody that doesn't believe in a God or a higher power. You don't need a masters in Theology to become an 'informed' atheist. A simple non belief will do. Besides "when you're an atheist every Friday is a good Friday and no one has to die".
Member since 2008.
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scubaroo
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+xThe incident in Melbourne raises the same questions as the reporting of the Manchester bomber and the failure of police to take action - what's the point if the government won't/isn't allowed to repatriate them. It's too late once they have already commited multiple murders.Putting them on the watch list, searching their apartment and having a "deradicalisation" D&M can only do so much. Putting them on a plane in handcuffs does a lot more. Welcome to Victoria. The nanny state... where you get in trouble for every little thing but when it comes down to the punishment... you get a hug.
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mouflonrouge
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI find the pie in the face just an example of cranky old white male privelege. Atheism is verging on 25% in the Australia census, reflecting what is happening around the world. I expect atheism & agnosticism to reach 51% majority within 10 years & atheism outright majority in about 50 years (people's fear of dying will delay it being sooner) Actually, it's all about stages of life. People who are not religious today, will become religious later in life. Also, meany people who declared 'no religion" (like me) are not Atheist. Sorry to burst your little bubble. But I find it is of no concern to the Government exactly what my religious beliefs are. Plus, I do predict that one day, religious people will be persecuted (familiar story). Just like in Finland where parents with religious beliefs have their kids taken from them because they are Christian (yes it's true and it's happening now). This is where Australia is headed. Religion is becoming less and less prevalent. Parents enforcing their religious beliefs and lifestyle on children to me is abuse. The children have no option but to accept their parents lifestyle. It's not! Some religions will be going on for thousands of years to the end of times. In fact, our religion is enjoying a huge resurgence among our young which is very encouraging. Our churches are full to bursting point and young people are going on pilgrimages to experience all the riches. l In small areas perhaps, but there is no doubt that the major religions are declining. People don't have to declare atheism to be unbelievers. I do not profess to be an atheist and yet would never voluntarily attend a church. I'm talking about cities and entire countries. I'm talking about millions of people not just some small backwater. Religiosity is about 98% Orthodoxy isn't declining my friend. In fact, it is expanding at a very fast rate. Catholicism has some structural problems giving it a bad name, but when they sort it, I expect them to rebound too. Your last sentence means you profess to believe in a higher power. Also, many Christians ticked the "no religion" or Atheist box in the census. That is what I did on our census form. Despite going to church most Sundays and being heavily invested in our parish. I did that, because for the first time ever, I am starting to live in fear because of my Christian beliefs. I do believe that the State will try to undermine Christian families and Christian values in the very near future. In fact, it is prophesized in our Bible (Apocalypse). And just about every prophecy so far has ended up being true. They will do that to cut people off from their support and family so that the Government can control people more and be all powerful. In 3rd world and developing countries maybe, but there are numerous documentaries and studies on the decline of organized and active religion. Christianity is deeply embedded in our culture (unfortunately). Christians fearing that their beliefs are under attack are being either sensitive or paranoid. I remember Scott Morrison claiming discrimination for his stance on gay marriage being attacked. What idiots like him need to accept is that religion does not and should not protect your beliefs from criticism. If you can't handle the criticism, do not publicly voice beliefs. I respect people, not their religious beliefs. I am not an atheist. However my definition of a higher power would significantly differ from yours. You're entitled to interpret things the way you want. You can define this God however you wish. It is of zero consequence to me as our religion should be of zero consequence to you, unless of course you actually do something quite brave and try to learn something. Lol..... I assure you I am learning a lot. I belong to a fraternity not blinded by a single religion ;) You are in no position to say that God doesn't exist. In fact no one is. The reverse is equally true. But anyway let's say for a minute I believe in the flying spaghetti Monster. Prove to me that no such deity exists. Thanks in advance. I wouldn't dare to prove you wrong. But I might have a straight jacket for you instead. lol As expected you can't. (Which was no surprise.) Nor can you prove your God exists. Atheists aren't ignorant. In it's simplest form it is somebody that doesn't believe in a God or a higher power. You don't need a masters in Theology to become an 'informed' atheist. A simple non belief will do. Besides "when you're an atheist every Friday is a good Friday and no one has to die". It doesn't prove a thing. I can't disprove anyone's lunacy. All I can do is provide a straight jacket as I told you. There are people who believe in Aliens and Alien Abductions. There are some people who continue to believe that the earth is flat, which can be proven that it isn't. The point is, you can't argue with someone that isn't all there. No matter how many times you show them that the earth is round, and that man landed on the moon, they will go on and on about it being a grand hoax and conspiracy. As for my Christian beliefs, I have actually seen enough evidence to convince me of a higher spirit we call God. I have traveled far and wide, witnessed real life myracles and things I can't explain from stigmata, to poisonous snakes being carried into a Church by the Parishioners on the Virgin's Feast Day, to people going into remission from terminal cancer, icons that weep blood from behind a glass, to an icon that blinds you, and I have also had a near death experience and seen a presence. But of course, many people will not believe me so I don't say anything. However, most of these experiences are actually open to anyone willing to explore for themselves. We are not a secret society. I absolutely encourage, even Atheists to travel to Israel and explore these important matters, and also to go to the Holy Mountain - Mount Athos. You will need a permit to get there as they only let 10 non Orthodox pilgrims to visit there. Last year, a CNN crew went there and so did Morgan Freeman. All of them said that it had changed their life for the better, and also there thinking. I believe Morgan Freeman actually converted to Orthodoxy. Anyhow, I digress and I think we were warned by one of the mods about talking about this. I don't mind talking with you about it, and it's an interesting topic, so if you want, start a thread with this as the subject and we will continue there.
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BETHFC
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIf parties were not permitted donations and were given a set amount of funding, maybe an amount tied to membership, we wouldn't have issues? Yeh but banning private donations from the public might be going a bit far. You have none or the current policy. Like I said, I believe that if you stop company/corporate donations, they'll just funnel money through individuals and the corruption remains the same. But then how are parties suppose to fund themselves to run political campaigns? I'm all for blanket freezes against corporations, lobby groups, businesses, and unions, but forbidding a donation from Jo Bloggs is a bit too far, when these donations are innocent. How can you tell what donations are innocent and which ones are corporations flooding money through an individual? If parties get a set amount which is lesser or greater based on the size of their membership then you can control what the parties spend. I don't know how they can tell, but it will have to be policed somehow. Big donations from individuals will undoubtedly come under the microscope by default. What if a corporation made several hundred donations in the name of their employees to get under the radar. If you make rules you have to police them at a cost. That would come up under the microscope too. Also, a disgruntled employee which does not support that particular party will squeal, and then the game is up for this particular corporation. Also, perhaps introduce some heavy fines to those who try and subvert the laws. Fines are all well and good but you have to catch them first (costs money) and then go through a process to implement the fine (more money). Lose lose situation I feel.
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BETHFC
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Bolt Punches ProtestorsI don't have a lot of time for Andrew Bolt but reading this amuses me greatly. Let the man release his book you fascist ferals :laugh:
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sydneyfc1987
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+xBolt Punches ProtestorsI don't have a lot of time for Andrew Bolt but reading this amuses me greatly. Let the man release his book you fascist ferals :laugh: Fucking idiots. Basically playing right into Bolt's anti-left agenda here.
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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TheSelectFew
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+x+xBolt Punches ProtestorsI don't have a lot of time for Andrew Bolt but reading this amuses me greatly. Let the man release his book you fascist ferals :laugh: Fucking idiots. Basically playing right into Bolt's anti-left agenda here. And despite their attack, they ended up legging it, 3 on 1, surprise attack, in a suit. I would hand myself in for being an utter failure.
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Aljay
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I've never paid much attention to Bolt, but my respect for him has just gone up.
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mcjules
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+x+xBolt Punches ProtestorsI don't have a lot of time for Andrew Bolt but reading this amuses me greatly. Let the man release his book you fascist ferals :laugh: Fucking idiots. Basically playing right into Bolt's anti-left agenda here. Yep fuckwits.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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paulbagzFC
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Yup proves his points straight away. -PB
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Aljay
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paulbagzFC
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lol how/why would you get or take a kitchen mincer onto a flight ffs -PB
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paulbagzFC
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LNP tearing themselves at the seams again over SSM. Looks like if you're a female and wanna go to Uni you're spot on to get raped according to all the hysteria on ABC today. EDIT: Sexually assaulted. There is a difference and I acknowledge that. -PB
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Vanlassen
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+xLNP tearing themselves at the seams again over SSM. Looks like if you're a female and wanna go to Uni you're spot on to get raped according to all the hysteria on ABC today. EDIT: Sexually assaulted. There is a difference and I acknowledge that. -PB According to the ABC, I was sexually assaulted this morning when another man looked at me and it made me feel uncomfortable.
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BETHFC
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+x+xLNP tearing themselves at the seams again over SSM. Looks like if you're a female and wanna go to Uni you're spot on to get raped according to all the hysteria on ABC today. EDIT: Sexually assaulted. There is a difference and I acknowledge that. -PB According to the ABC, I was sexually assaulted this morning when another man looked at me and it made me feel uncomfortable. Haha best comment
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mouflonrouge
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+x+xLNP tearing themselves at the seams again over SSM. Looks like if you're a female and wanna go to Uni you're spot on to get raped according to all the hysteria on ABC today. EDIT: Sexually assaulted. There is a difference and I acknowledge that. -PB According to the ABC, I was sexually assaulted this morning when another man looked at me and it made me feel uncomfortable. It's only a small part in this social engineering campaign. We haven't scratched thew surface either.
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paulbagzFC
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Catholic Church in Melbs coming out and saying they might fire employees if they get legally married as a same sex couple. -PB
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aussie scott21
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I think they should be allowed to marry. But, that individuals and churches have the right to refuse to do it and not be charged with discrimination.
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sokorny
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+xI think they should be allowed to marry. But, that individuals and churches have the right to refuse to do it and not be charged with discrimination. As stated under current laws in Australia a church can refuse to marry people on a myriad of issues (that normally would be illegally under discrimination laws) due to exemptions in those laws (maybe in the other Australian politics thread??). I think this is where people get confused. It is not a matter of children as adoption and child protection laws are completely separate to the Marriage Act. Similarly the Anti-Discrimination laws are separate to the Marriage Act (and already give exemption on religious matters).
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lollywood
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Vote No.
You know Australia will despite the left wing fascists who will probably riot & attempt to blow up something Christian despite those of the Islamic faith who hold very firm beliefs on gay marriage will all vote no. Of course because the left wing fascists are conveniently using those of the Islamic faith to further their sick fuck anti freedom agenda they won't say a word against their Islamic brothers who will get the no vote over the line.
Vote No.
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aussie scott21
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+x+xI think they should be allowed to marry. But, that individuals and churches have the right to refuse to do it and not be charged with discrimination. As stated under current laws in Australia a church can refuse to marry people on a myriad of issues (that normally would be illegally under discrimination laws) due to exemptions in those laws (maybe in the other Australian politics thread??). I think this is where people get confused. It is not a matter of children as adoption and child protection laws are completely separate to the Marriage Act. Similarly the Anti-Discrimination laws are separate to the Marriage Act (and already give exemption on religious matters). But what of the individual? A person that performs marriages as a job outside a religious institution may they deny a couple their service? I think they should be able to say no in this instance. The murky area is whether a venue, cake maker, suit hire etc can say no because people will be against and it will challenge their views. The argument could be that there are other places that will sell you that service so go there. As for the church thing, I look at the country I live in - No priest working for the Church of Sweden should be allowed to refuse to wed same-sex couples, Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Löfven said in an interview with a church newspaper. "Us Social Democrats work to ensure that all priests should wed all people, including same-sex couples. If you are a midwife you either have to carry out abortions, or you have to find another profession. The same goes for priests who do not want to wed homosexuals," Löfven told the paper. 'All priests should wed same-sex couples': Swedish PM - The LocalThis will happen in Australia also. If the act is passed, the left will push for a change in the marriage act. Because of what lollywood says, the destruction of the nuclear family, loss of freedom and destroy christianity are their goals...
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Aljay
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Lollywood,
"You know Australia will despite the left wing fascists who will probably riot & attempt to blow something up"
you mean like the attempted suicide-bombing of the Australian Christian Lobby head office last December?
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sokorny
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+x+x+xI think they should be allowed to marry. But, that individuals and churches have the right to refuse to do it and not be charged with discrimination. As stated under current laws in Australia a church can refuse to marry people on a myriad of issues (that normally would be illegally under discrimination laws) due to exemptions in those laws (maybe in the other Australian politics thread??). I think this is where people get confused. It is not a matter of children as adoption and child protection laws are completely separate to the Marriage Act. Similarly the Anti-Discrimination laws are separate to the Marriage Act (and already give exemption on religious matters). But what of the individual? A person that performs marriages as a job outside a religious institution may they deny a couple their service? I think they should be able to say no in this instance. The murky area is whether a venue, cake maker, suit hire etc can say no because people will be against and it will challenge their views. The argument could be that there are other places that will sell you that service so go there. As for the church thing, I look at the country I live in - No priest working for the Church of Sweden should be allowed to refuse to wed same-sex couples, Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Löfven said in an interview with a church newspaper. "Us Social Democrats work to ensure that all priests should wed all people, including same-sex couples. If you are a midwife you either have to carry out abortions, or you have to find another profession. The same goes for priests who do not want to wed homosexuals," Löfven told the paper. 'All priests should wed same-sex couples': Swedish PM - The LocalThis will happen in Australia also. If the act is passed, the left will push for a change in the marriage act. Because of what lollywood says, the destruction of the nuclear family, loss of freedom and destroy christianity are their goals... Australia has an anti-discrimination law that already gives religions exemptions for marriage, so doesn't matter if the marriage act changes the anti-discrimination law would also have to remove religious exemptions (which is a completely different matter) and unlikely to happen (then people not of that denomination would also have to married by that religion as otherwise it would be discrimination). In regards to the individual, no they can't discriminate. That is why we have anti-discrimination laws in Australia. You would have to repeal the anti-discrimination laws to allow the businesses to discriminate against consumers (which then allows them to not serve people because they are black, Asian, different religion, atheists, disabled etc. etc.)
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sokorny
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+xVote No. You know Australia will despite the left wing fascists who will probably riot & attempt to blow up something Christian despite those of the Islamic faith who hold very firm beliefs on gay marriage will all vote no. Of course because the left wing fascists are conveniently using those of the Islamic faith to further their sick fuck anti freedom agenda they won't say a word against their Islamic brothers who will get the no vote over the line. Vote No. Wouldn't allowing same sex marriage be seen as gaining freedoms for the individual?
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sydneyfc1987
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+x+xVote No. You know Australia will despite the left wing fascists who will probably riot & attempt to blow up something Christian despite those of the Islamic faith who hold very firm beliefs on gay marriage will all vote no. Of course because the left wing fascists are conveniently using those of the Islamic faith to further their sick fuck anti freedom agenda they won't say a word against their Islamic brothers who will get the no vote over the line. Vote No. Wouldn't allowing same sex marriage be seen as gaining freedoms for the individual? Depends If you are forcing priests to marry gay couples then you are not impeding religious freedom?
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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sokorny
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+xVote No. You know Australia will despite the left wing fascists who will probably riot & attempt to blow up something Christian despite those of the Islamic faith who hold very firm beliefs on gay marriage will all vote no. Of course because the left wing fascists are conveniently using those of the Islamic faith to further their sick fuck anti freedom agenda they won't say a word against their Islamic brothers who will get the no vote over the line. Vote No. Wouldn't allowing same sex marriage be seen as gaining freedoms for the individual? Depends If you are forcing priests to marry gay couples then you are not impeding religious freedom? Why would priests be forced to marry couples that don't follow their religious dogma?? They already don't allow this, why would this change afterwards??
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paulbagzFC
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+xVote No. You know Australia will despite the left wing fascists who will probably riot & attempt to blow up something Christian despite those of the Islamic faith who hold very firm beliefs on gay marriage will all vote no. Of course because the left wing fascists are conveniently using those of the Islamic faith to further their sick fuck anti freedom agenda they won't say a word against their Islamic brothers who will get the no vote over the line. Vote No. Wouldn't allowing same sex marriage be seen as gaining freedoms for the individual? Depends If you are forcing priests to marry gay couples then you are not impeding religious freedom? Why would priests be forced to marry couples that don't follow their religious dogma?? They already don't allow this, why would this change afterwards?? This. -PB
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sydneyfc1987
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+x+x+x+xVote No. You know Australia will despite the left wing fascists who will probably riot & attempt to blow up something Christian despite those of the Islamic faith who hold very firm beliefs on gay marriage will all vote no. Of course because the left wing fascists are conveniently using those of the Islamic faith to further their sick fuck anti freedom agenda they won't say a word against their Islamic brothers who will get the no vote over the line. Vote No. Wouldn't allowing same sex marriage be seen as gaining freedoms for the individual? Depends If you are forcing priests to marry gay couples then you are not impeding religious freedom? Why would priests be forced to marry couples that don't follow their religious dogma?? They already don't allow this, why would this change afterwards?? You are incredibly naive if you don't there will be a push to change that. As Scott21 pointed out they are pushing it in Sweden.
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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aussie scott21
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+x+x+xVote No. You know Australia will despite the left wing fascists who will probably riot & attempt to blow up something Christian despite those of the Islamic faith who hold very firm beliefs on gay marriage will all vote no. Of course because the left wing fascists are conveniently using those of the Islamic faith to further their sick fuck anti freedom agenda they won't say a word against their Islamic brothers who will get the no vote over the line. Vote No. Wouldn't allowing same sex marriage be seen as gaining freedoms for the individual? Depends If you are forcing priests to marry gay couples then you are not impeding religious freedom? Yeah. I got married in Australia, to a woman. I found a guy to marry us, thorugh a church. The guy was a pastor, but not head pastor. He married us and we got to choose how much "god" we wanted, from zero to much. This was his private company/business. I would not want him forced to perform gay weddings if he didnt see fit. I can agree with venues (outside of religous ownerships), restuarants, florists, but not the individual. Why? Because there wont be a shortage of people willing to perfom them any way and state/government should also perform them. Its not like it will be legal but no one will do it. If someone can prove membership or connection to church or mosque or temple etc they should be able to say no. Ottherwise I would vote no.
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mcjules
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+x+x+x+x+xVote No. You know Australia will despite the left wing fascists who will probably riot & attempt to blow up something Christian despite those of the Islamic faith who hold very firm beliefs on gay marriage will all vote no. Of course because the left wing fascists are conveniently using those of the Islamic faith to further their sick fuck anti freedom agenda they won't say a word against their Islamic brothers who will get the no vote over the line. Vote No. Wouldn't allowing same sex marriage be seen as gaining freedoms for the individual? Depends If you are forcing priests to marry gay couples then you are not impeding religious freedom? Why would priests be forced to marry couples that don't follow their religious dogma?? They already don't allow this, why would this change afterwards?? You are incredibly naive if you don't there will be a push to change that. As Scott21 pointed out they are pushing it in Sweden. For the church of Sweden, the state religion. Pretty different scenario.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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