Why do you lie so much?

Mods can't see IP addresses.

But I can 😉😉😉 . 

😂

🤣🤣🤣 whoops did I say too much 😂😂😂

😂😂

Have you ignored the 68 protocols that are in place? I guess so...

Bullshit they can't.

Exactly why I didn't reply.  One of the articles wasn't even euthanasia related and could have happened anywhere.  (And has in countries that don't even have euthanasia.)

And anyone that thinks doctors aren't helping patients now are deluded.  This brings it out into the open.

So they've finally named 4 people responsible for the MH17 crash.

Can't ever see them facing justice, but interesting times nonetheless.

-PB

Yes they can. I have a Brisbane IP Address and Aikhme is South Australian I believe.

One of the mods told me. They told me because I asked them to look into it because if all the accusations designed to of course discredit my standing on the forum by persons who are intellectually ill equipped.

Well then you should stop lieing!

Holland and belgium have the same protocols in place.

Once the law is in place, the 68 protocols can and will be flouted by insincere elements.

What you guys do not appreciate is that Australian Doctors have actually been covertly and secretly practicing Euthanasia for decades. They slowly increase the morphine dosages of terminally ill patients to levels they know is impossible to survive. This is something illegal but they do it under the guise that it is necessary to treat the pain.

Now imagine the skullduggery and malpractice once it is legal. In a couple of decades we will have statistics like Belgium and Holland do and the scandal will be uncovered.

Exactly!

So that should put this to rest then!

The countries mentioned were Holland and Belgium which have euthanasia. You didn't comment because you chose to ignore my irrefutable statistics!

Let me see if I have this right.

The doctor was suspected of murdering up to 300 patients.

Holland has Euthanasia.

Therefore .... ummm something?!


Oh and based on this excerpt...

In case you think that Dr. de Souza is unique, you may remember Dr. Harold Shipman who may have killed around 250 patients in England and was convicted of 15 murders. Then there was Dr. Michael Swango, the American doctor who may have killed 60 patients and more recently there was the Finnish nurse Aino Nykopp-Koski who was convicted of killing 5 patients. Link to an article.

and this 

BRASILIA – A Brazilian doctor who was charged with killing seven patients to free up beds at a hospital intensive care unit may have been responsible for as many as 300 deaths, according to a Health Ministry investigator.


You'll note (ignore would be more correct) that those doctors suspected of killing their patients were from countries that don't have euthanasia.  Based on your illogical, ad hoc reasoning it looks like, on balance, the chances of being killed by a doctor on purpose are better in a country that doesn't allow euthanasia. 


And BTW correlation is not causation.

These stories are NOT unique and there are Australian Doctors that do the same thing today. They just have been clever enough to cover their tracks.

As I told you, Euthanasia has been taking place in Australia for decades. This is a cover up that is waiting to be exposed and when it is exposed it will literally rock the Health Industry to its core.

http://www.patientsrightscouncil.org/site/holland-background/

Right-to-die advocates often point to Holland as the model for how well physician-assisted, voluntary euthanasia for terminally-ill, competent patients can work without abuse. But the facts indicate otherwise. BACKGROUND INFORMATIONDutch Penal Code Articles 293 and 294 make both euthanasia and assisted suicide illegal, even today. However, as the result of various court cases, doctors who directly kill patients or help patients kill themselves will not be prosecuted as long as they follow certain guidelines. In addition to the current requirements that physicians report every euthanasia/assisted-suicide death to the local prosecutor and that the patient’s death request must be enduring (carefully considered and requested on more than one occasion), the Rotterdam court in 1981 established the following guidelines:

1. The patient must be experiencing unbearable pain.
2. The patient must be conscious.
3. The death request must be voluntary.
4. The patient must have been given alternatives to euthanasia and time to consider these alternatives.
5. There must be no other reasonable solutions to the problem.
6. The patient’s death cannot inflict unnecessary suffering on others.
7. There must be more than one person involved in the euthanasia decision.
8. Only a doctor can euthanize a patient.
9. Great care must be taken in actually making the death decision. (1)

Since 1981, these guidelines have been interpreted by the Dutch courts and Royal Dutch Medical Association (KNMG) in ever-broadening terms. One example is the interpretation of the “unbearable pain” requirement reflected in the Hague Court of Appeal’s 1986 decision. The court ruled that the pain guideline was not limited to physical pain, and that “psychic suffering” or “the potential disfigurement of personality” could also be grounds for euthanasia. (2)The main argument in favor of euthanasia in Holland has always been the need for more patient autonomy — that patients have the right to make their own end-of-life decisions. Yet, over the past 20 years, Dutch euthanasia practice has ultimately given doctors, not patients, more and more power. The question of whether a patient should live or die is often decided exclusively by a doctor or a team of physicians.(3)The Dutch define “euthanasia” in a very limited way: “Euthanasia is understood [as] an action which aims at taking the life of anotherat the latter’s expressed request. It concerns an action of which death is the purpose and the result.” (4) (Emphasis added.) This definition applies only to voluntary euthanasia and excludes what the rest of the world refers to as non-voluntary or involuntaryeuthanasia, the killing of a patient without the patient’s knowledge or consent. The Dutch call this “life-terminating treatment.”Some physicians use this distinction between “euthanasia” and “life-terminating treatment” to avoid having a patient’s death classified as “euthanasia,” thus freeing doctors from following the established euthanasia guidelines and reporting the death to local authorities. One such example was discussed during the December 1990 Institute for Bioethics conference in Maastricht, Holland. A physician from The Netherlands Cancer Institute told of approximately 30 cases a year where doctors ended patients’ lives after the patients intentionally had been put into a coma by means of a morphine injection. The Cancer Institute physician then stated that these deaths were not considered “euthanasia” because they were not voluntary, and that to have discussed the plan to end these patients’ lives with the patients would have been “rude” since they all knew they had incurable conditions. (5)For the sake of clarity in this fact sheet, the direct and intentional termination of a patient’s life, performed without the patient’s consent, will be termed “involuntary euthanasia.”THE FACTSThe Remmelink Report— On September 10, 1991, the results of the first, official government study of the practice of Dutch euthanasia were released. The two volume report (6)–popularly referred to as the Remmelink Report (after Professor J. Remmelink, M.J., attorney general of the High Council of the Netherlands, who headed the study committee)–documents the prevalence ofinvoluntary euthanasia in Holland, as well as the fact that, to a large degree, doctors have taken over end-of-life decision making regarding euthanasia. The data indicate that, despite long-standing, court-approved euthanasia guidelines developed to protect patients, abuse has become an accepted norm. According to the Remmelink Report, in 1990:

• 2,300 people died as the result of doctors killing them upon request (active, voluntary euthanasia).(7)
• 400 people died as a result of doctors providing them with the means to kill themselves (physician-assisted suicide).(8)
• 1,040 people (an average of 3 per day) died from involuntary euthanasia, meaning that doctors actively killed these patients without the patients’ knowledge or consent.(9)
  • 14% of these patients were fully competent. (10)
  • 72% had never given any indication that they would want their lives terminated. (11)
  • In 8% of the cases, doctors performed involuntary euthanasia despite the fact that they believed alternative options were still possible. (12)
• In addition, 8,100 patients died as a result of doctors deliberately giving them overdoses of pain medication, not for the primary purpose of controlling pain, but to hasten the patient’s death. (13) In 61% of these cases (4,941 patients), the intentional overdose was given without the patient’s consent.(14)
• According to the Remmelink Report, Dutch physicians deliberately and intentionally ended the lives of 11,840 people by lethal overdoses or injections–a figure which accounts for 9.1% of the annual overall death rate of 130,000 per year. The majority of all euthanasia deaths in Holland are involuntary deaths.
• The Remmelink Report figures cited here do not include thousands of other cases, also reported in the study, in which life-sustaining treatment was withheld or withdrawn without the patient’s consent and with the intention of causing the patient’s death. (15) Nor do the figures include cases of involuntary euthanasia performed on disabled newborns, children with life-threatening conditions, or psychiatric patients. (16)
• The most frequently cited reasons given for ending the lives of patients without their knowledge or consent were: “low quality of life,” “no prospect for improvement,” and “the family couldn’t take it anymore.”(17)
• In 45% of cases involving hospitalized patients who were involuntarily euthanized, the patients’ families had no knowledge that their loved ones’ lives were deliberately terminated by doctors. (18)
• According to the 1990 census, the population of Holland is approximately 15 million. That is only half the population of California. To get some idea of how the Remmelink Report statistics would apply to the U.S., those figures would have to be multiplied 16.6 times (based on the 1990 U.S. census population of approximately 250 million).

Falsified Death Certificates —In the overwhelming majority of Dutch euthanasia cases, doctors–in order to avoid additional paperwork and scrutiny from local authorities–deliberately falsify patients’ death certificates, stating that the deaths occurred from natural causes. (19) In reference to Dutch euthanasia guidelines and the requirement that physicians report all euthanasia and assisted-suicide deaths to local prosecutors, a government health inspector recently told the New York Times: “In the end the system depends on the integrity of the physician, of what and how he reports. If the family doctor does not report a case of voluntary euthanasia or an assisted suicide, there is nothing to control.” (20)Inadequate Pain Control and Comfort Care — In 1988, the British Medical Association released the findings of a study on Dutch euthanasia conducted at the request of British right-to-die advocates. The study found that, in spite of the fact that medical care is provided to everyone in Holland, palliative care (comfort care) programs, with adequate pain control techniques and knowledge, were poorly developed. (21) Where euthanasia is an accepted medical solution to patients’ pain and suffering, there is little incentive to develop programs which provide modern, available, and effective pain control for patients. As of mid-1990, only two hospice programs were in operation in all of Holland, and the services they provided were very limited. (22)Broadening Interpretations of Euthanasia Guidelines

• In July 1992, the Dutch Pediatric Association announced that it was issuing formal guidelines for killing severely handicapped newborns. Dr. Zier Versluys, chairman of the association’s Working Group on Neonatal Ethics, said that “Both for the parents and the children, an early death is better than life.” Dr. Versluys also indicated that euthanasia is an integral part of good medical practice in relation to newborn babies. (23) Doctors would judge if a baby’s “quality of life” is such that the baby should be killed.
• A 2/15/93 statement released by the Dutch Justice Ministry proposed extending the court-approved, euthanasia guidelines to formally include “active medical intervention to cut short life without an express request.” (Emphasis added.) Liesbeth Rensman, a spokesperson for the Ministry, said that this would be the first step toward the official sanctioning of euthanasia for those who cannot ask for it, particularly psychiatric patients and handicapped newborns.(24)
• A 4/21/93 landmark Dutch court decision affirmed euthanasia for psychiatric reasons. The court found that psychiatrist Dr. Boudewijn Chabot was medically justified and followed established euthanasia guidelines in helping his physically healthy, but depressed, patient commit suicide. The patient, 50-year-old Hilly Bosscher, said she wanted to die after the deaths of her two children and the subsequent breakup of her marriage.(25)

Euthanasia “Fallout” — The effects of euthanasia policy and practice have been felt in all segments of Dutch society:

• Some Dutch doctors provide “self-help programs” for adolescents to end their lives. (26)
• General practitioners wishing to admit elderly patients to hospitals have sometimes been advised to give the patients lethal injections instead. (27)
• Cost containment is one of the main aims of Dutch health care policy. (28)
• Euthanasia training has been part of both medical and nursing school curricula. (29)
• Euthanasia has been administered to people with diabetes, rheumatism, multiple sclerosis, AIDS, bronchitis, and accident victims. (30)
• In 1990, the Dutch Patients’ Association, a disability rights organization, developed wallet-size cards which state that if the signer is admitted to a hospital “no treatment be administered with the intention to terminate life.” Many in Holland see the card as a necessity to help prevent involuntary euthanasia being performed on those who do not want their lives ended, especially those whose lives are considered low in quality. (31)
• In 1993, the Dutch senior citizens’ group, the Protestant Christian Elderly Society, surveyed 2,066 seniors on general health care issues. The Survey did not address the euthanasia issue in any way, yet ten percent of the elderly respondents clearly indicated that, because of the Dutch euthanasia policy, they are afraid that their lives could be terminated without their request. According to the Elderly Society director, Hans Homans. “They are afraid that at a certain moment, on the basis of age, a treatment will be considered no longer economically viable, and an early end to their lives will be made.” (32)

The Irony of History — During World War ll, Holland was the only occupied country whose doctors refused to participate in the German euthanasia program. Dutch physicians openly defied an order to treat only those patients who had a good chance of full recovery. They recognized that to comply with the order would have been the first step away from their duty to care for all patients. The German officer who gave that order was later executed for war crimes. Remarkably, during the entire German occupation of Holland, Dutch doctors never recommended nor participated in one euthanasia death. (33) Commenting on this fact in his essay “The Humane Holocaust,” highly respected British journalist Malcolm Muggeridge wrote that it took only a few decades “to transform a war crime into an act of compassion.” (34)Implications of the Dutch Euthanasia Experience

• Right-to-die advocates often argue that euthanasia and assisted suicide are “choice issues.” The Dutch experience clearly indicates that, where voluntary euthanasia and assisted suicide are accepted practice, a significant number of patients end up having no choice at all.
• Euthanasia does not remain a “right” only for the terminally-ill, competent adult who requests it, no matter how many safeguards are established. As a “right,” it inevitably is applied to those who are chronically ill, disabled, elderly, mentally ill, mentally retarded, and depressed– the rationale being that such individuals should have the same “right” to end their suffering as anyone else, even if they do not or cannot voluntarily request death.
• Euthanasia, by its very nature, is an abuse and the ultimate abandonment of patients.
• In actual practice, euthanasia only gives doctors greater power and a license to kill.
• Once the power to kill is bestowed on physicians, the inherent nature of the doctor/patient relationship is adversely affected. A patient can no longer be sure what role the doctor will play–healer or killer.
• Unlike Holland, where medical care is automatically provided for everyone, in the U.S. millions of people cannot afford medical treatment. If euthanasia and assisted-suicide were to become accepted in the U.S., death would be the only “medical option” many could afford.
• Even with health care reform in the U.S., many people would still not have long-standing relationships with their doctors. Large numbers of Americans would belong to health maintenance organizations (HMOs) and managed care programs, and they often would not even know the physicians who end up treating them. Given those circumstances, doctors would be ill-equipped to recognize if a patient’s euthanasia request was the result of depression or the sometimes subtle pressures placed on the patient to “get out of the way.” Also, given the current push for health care cost containment in the U.S., medical groups and facilities many be tempted to view patients in terms of their treatment costs instead of their innate value as human beings. For some, the “bottom line” would be, “Dead patients cost less than live ones.”
• Giving doctors the legal power to kill their patients is dangerous public policy.

Sources:1. Carlos Gomez, Regulating Death (New York: Free Press, 1991), p.32. Hereafter cited as Regulating Death.
2. Ibid., p.39.
3. H. Jochemsen, trans., “Report of the Royal Dutch Society of Medicine on ‘Life-Terminating Actions with Incompetent Patients, Part 1: Severely Handicapped Newborns.'” Issues in Law & Medicine, vol. 7, no.3 (1991), p. 366.
4. From KNMG Euthanasia Guidelines as quoted in Regulating Death, p. 40.
5. Alexander Morgan Capron, “Euthanasia in the Netherlands–American Observations,” Hastings Center Report (March, April 1992), p. 31.
6. Medical Decisions About the End of Life, I. Report of the Committee to Study the Medical Practice Concerning Euthanasia. II. The Study for the Committee on Medical Practice Concerning Euthanasia (2 vols.), The Hague, September 19, 1991. Hereafter cited asReport I and Report II, respectively.
7. Report I, p. 13.
8. Ibid.
9. Ibid.,p. 15.
10. Report II, p.49, table 6.4.
11. Ibid., p.50, table 6.6.
12. Ibid., table 6.5.
13. Ibid., p. 58, table 7.2.
14. Ibid., p. 72.
15. Ibid.
16. Report I, pp. 17-18.
17. Report II, p. 52, table 6.7.
18. Ibid., table 6.8.
19. I.J. Keown, “The Law and Practice of Euthanasia in The Netherlands,” The Law Quarterly Review (January 1992), pp. 67-68.
20. Marlise Simons, “Dutch Move to Enact Law Making Euthanasia Easier,” New York Times, 2/9/93, p.A1.
21. Euthanasia: Report of the Working Party to Review the British Medical Association’s Guidance on Euthanasia, British Medical Association, May 5, 1988, p. 49, no. 195.
22. Rita L. Marker, Deadly Compassion -The Death of Ann Humphry and the Truth About Euthanasia (New York; William Morrow and Company, 1993), p. 157. Hereafter cited as Deadly Compassion.
23. Abner Katzman, “Dutch debate mercy killing of babies,” Contra Costa Times, 7/30/92, p. 3B.
24. “Critics fear euthanasia soon needn’t be requested,” Vancouver Sun, 2/17/93, p. Al0. Also, “Dutch may broaden rules to permit involuntary euthanasia,” Contra Costa Times, 2/17/93, p. 4B.
25. New York Times, 4/5/93. p.A3, and Washington Times, 4/22/93, p.A2.
26. “It’s Almost Over — More Letters on Debbie,” Letter to the editor by G.B. Humphrey, M.D., Ph.D., University Hospital, Groningen, The Netherlands, Journal of the American Medical Association, vol. 260, no. 6 (8/12/88), p. 788.
27.”Involuntary Euthanasia in Holland,” Wall Street Journal, 9/29/87, p.3.
28. “Restructuring Health Care”, The Lancet (1/28/89), p.209.
29.”The Member’s Aid Service of the Dutch Association for Voluntary Euthanasia,” Euthanasia Review, vol. 1, no. 3 (Fall 1986), p.153.
30. “Suicide on Prescription,” Sunday Observer (London, England), 4/30/89, p. 22.
31. Deadly Compassion, p. 156.
32. “Elderly Dutch afraid of euthanasia policy,” Canberra Times (Australia), 6/11/93.
33. Leo Alexander, “Medical Science Under Dictatorship,” New England Journal of Medicine, vol.241 (July 14, 1949), p.45.
34. Nancy Gibbs, “Love and Let Die,” Time Magazine (March 19, 1990), p.67.

A mod literally told me that they can’t check IP addresses.

Also if a mod wanted to end the multi accusations, they would have posted that publicly.

Why haven't these doctors been investigated? Where is the evidence of this? 

If you legalise it, at least it will be in the open...

Don't care and glad that Victoria have done it.  

Just need NSW to get on board now.

Well of course they'd say that wouldn't they.

And almost the first thing Decentric did when he was a mod was rabbit on incessantly about how they didn't have access to IP addresses.  A dead giveaway.

  

There have been investigations and also cover ups.

It's only a matter of time. There were in fact 2 doctors in Australia that have been charged and license revoked but the problem is on a much larger scale than that.

The industry has just been clever enough to cover their tracks.

I've been told something else entirely different.

Again, that is all you can say because you can't refute my statistics which means you are also glad Victoria will be traveling the same slippery slope to debauchery.

The “statistics” are literally irrelevent because we don’t have euthanasia in Victoria - we have assisted dying.

Euthanasia implies no agency on the part of the patient (like putting a dog to sleep) whereas with assisted dying the patient must consent every step of the way and must administer the drug themselves. Doctors are even banned from suggesting the scheme even if they think it’s the right thing to do. If there’s any hint of mental illness or an indication that the decision making abilities of the patient are impaired then they won’t be able to end their own life. It’s literally the most conservative assisted dying scheme in the world.

Also lmao at your outrage at giving morphine to dying patients in palliative care. It’s to calm them down and ease their pain so their last moments on Earth aren’t spent being terrified and hurting. You truly are a despicable person if you’re against this.

Really! Well I never thought teal actual statistics are irrelevant!

When they can't be refuted , they are ignored and "irrelevant".

You can use the words to imply what you want and pretend their are safeguards all you like just like in other countries but the facts say something else and its even a taboo subject today that Euthanasia is actually practiced in Australia on a daily basis in an under the table manner.

Shame on you 433.  You can't ignore stats just because it suits you.  Only Mouflon can do that.  (Just like the interest rates discussion or the other one where I showed him girls from the most religious backgrounds have the highest rates of teenage pregnancies.)

As for morphine being administered.  When my dad was dying he requested his pacemaker to be turned off and not be resuscitated.  Even after all of that the doctors and nurses were extremely insistent that they couldn't give more than the prescribed amount of morphine despite our asking them to do so and his expressed wish for him to no longer hang about.

But even if that was only a one-off for my dad I'm glad that there's doctors around that will help alleviate your suffering and help you go quicker. 

It's such an idiotic argument anyway.  You're going to die in 2 days.  You can go tomorrow morning on your own terms or because you're in screaming agony we can put you in a coma, drugged up to the fucking eyeballs whereby you'll expire a day later in any case.  WTF?!  How is that better? 

In any event nothing will be good enough for this zealot.  

The good news is, it's available and in the near future it will be available in other jurisdictions.

What's lieing? Its lying my friend and aikhme doesnt live in s.a . His ip  is a static ip . Strange that hey 

Good thing it's legalised now so this will be out in the open :)

I don't even know what Static IP actually means and I don't even know if I have a Static IP right now. All I know is I am in Ascot, Brisbane, and so I have an IP that locates me appropriately.

That's not what I have been told anyway. The mods did actually investigate and they found no connection between myself and Aikhme. Also, Aikhme is no longer on this forum and can not defend himself so please leave the poor bugger alone.

He is also an Adelaide United supporter and good on him.

My IP Address is a Brisbane one. The owners of this forum know who I am.

Well then, as you have admitted that is Euthanasia and very illegal no matter how you slice and dice it.

I am very uneasy with family asking doctors to up the morphine of their loved ones. This will only result in family and kids asking for their "loved" one to 'go quicker' so they can inherit the estate.

This is the debauchery of today's society!