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Monoethnic Social Club
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Rumours of a follow up meeting next week on 8th or 9th to address some of the modelling points brought up ...... who knows?
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LFC.
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talk talk talk talk talk......how many more discussions, one after another. “CEO, James Johnson and several other senior executives of Football Australia participated in the meeting and welcomed the opportunity to hear directly from the clubs on some of their views on these considerations and look forward to having further and more detailed discussions in the coming months as we move the conceptual discussions towards practical ones, and in turn the national second tier becoming a reality at the appropriate time.” “Getting it right in more important than imposing some sort of deadline. Clearly the intention that emerged from that meeting was that we now work as stakeholders to complete the tasks, so short term is better than long term but there is no specific timeline.” Seriously with all the foundations there (NPL all over the country) to not make things for the better in the big picture is sheer neglect imo (forgetting all the backroom politics in the background thats another) 16yrs down and counting. Its like having all the tools to build the mountain or freeway but you haven't got the instruction sheet from the Engineers for they are still in discussion stages. Joke.
Love Football
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+xtalk talk talk talk talk......how many more discussions, one after another. “CEO, James Johnson and several other senior executives of Football Australia participated in the meeting and welcomed the opportunity to hear directly from the clubs on some of their views on these considerations and look forward to having further and more detailed discussions in the coming months as we move the conceptual discussions towards practical ones, and in turn the national second tier becoming a reality at the appropriate time.” “Getting it right in more important than imposing some sort of deadline. Clearly the intention that emerged from that meeting was that we now work as stakeholders to complete the tasks, so short term is better than long term but there is no specific timeline.” Seriously with all the foundations there (NPL all over the country) to not make things for the better in the big picture is sheer neglect imo (forgetting all the backroom politics in the background thats another) 16yrs down and counting. Its like having all the tools to build the mountain or freeway but you haven't got the instruction sheet from the Engineers for they are still in discussion stages. Joke. I like your analogy... The NSD is "shovel ready" just like the famous Werribee Wembley, just waiting on sign off by ........ ......... name your excuse :)
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numklpkgulftumch
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10 Search "National Second Division"
20 Click on first search result
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bettega
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We are now officially into our 6th year of the planning surrounding the NSD. Just in case we've forgotten the various milestones leading up to this point, I've lifted this directly from a wikipedia article: Although informally talked about for many years, momentum for the idea of a national second division increased in October 2016. In March 2017 "The Association of Australian Football Clubs (AAFC) Limited" was established, with the goal of opening dialogue with Football Federation Australia (FFA) and various other stakeholders about establishing a national second division. The board consists of several members representing their respective states and is chaired by Nick Galatas. In January 2018 the AAFC released a timeline for implementation of the league, requesting expressions of interest from clubs for participation in The Championship. In February 2019, the AAFC announced they were of the belief that the competition could be up and running by the 2020–21 season. On 3 June 2019 the new national second division was given the green light by FFA, paving the way for the next stage of planning and a revised start date of the 2021–22 season. On 15 September 2020, a provisional list of 30 "partner clubs" was released to the public. The official partners included National Premier League clubs from every state in Australia. In a January 2021 report, the AAFC claimed that the establishment of a national second division competition would be affordable and feasible. In July 2021 report, Football Australia spokesperson confirmed to ESPN that the competition remained a priority to the federation, while its chairman Chris Nikou declared in May that he was "expecting (an NSD model) to come to the Football Australia board in the second half of this year, and I'd love to see a second division up for the 2022-23 season.
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ErogenousZone
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6 years. Too funny if anyone believes that the FFA/FA actually want this.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+xWe are now officially into our 6th year of the planning surrounding the NSD. Just in case we've forgotten the various milestones leading up to this point, I've lifted this directly from a wikipedia article: Although informally talked about for many years, momentum for the idea of a national second division increased in October 2016. In March 2017 "The Association of Australian Football Clubs (AAFC) Limited" was established, with the goal of opening dialogue with Football Federation Australia (FFA) and various other stakeholders about establishing a national second division. The board consists of several members representing their respective states and is chaired by Nick Galatas. In January 2018 the AAFC released a timeline for implementation of the league, requesting expressions of interest from clubs for participation in The Championship. In February 2019, the AAFC announced they were of the belief that the competition could be up and running by the 2020–21 season. On 3 June 2019 the new national second division was given the green light by FFA, paving the way for the next stage of planning and a revised start date of the 2021–22 season. On 15 September 2020, a provisional list of 30 "partner clubs" was released to the public. The official partners included National Premier League clubs from every state in Australia. In a January 2021 report, the AAFC claimed that the establishment of a national second division competition would be affordable and feasible. In July 2021 report, Football Australia spokesperson confirmed to ESPN that the competition remained a priority to the federation, while its chairman Chris Nikou declared in May that he was "expecting (an NSD model) to come to the Football Australia board in the second half of this year, and I'd love to see a second division up for the 2022-23 season. This just breaks my heart....... I wonder where the football journalists in this country are? No one seems to be asking fat Nick for a follow up statement?
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Footyball
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Isn't there going to be an unofficial second tier comp in January as indicated by a place holder?
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Muz
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+x6 years. Too funny if anyone believes that the FFA/FA actually want this. It is a perfect example and a masterpiece of how to kick the can down the road. Well done all. Next step, a working party to throw up some proposals for a committee to put forward recommendations to relevant and interested 'stakeholders'. Have a feedback period of say 12 months to prepare submissions, alternate proposals and amendments, send those back to the working party to see what can be incorporated into the original proposal and send the amended proposal back up to the committee again. Rinse and repeat. Reckon that could take easily another 6 or so years. If you're in the FFA or the APL and you're reading this (unlikely) you are a dead set disgrace. Fuck you all.
Member since 2008.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x6 years. Too funny if anyone believes that the FFA/FA actually want this. It is a perfect example and a masterpiece of how to kick the can down the road. Well done all. Next step, a working party to throw up some proposals for a committee to put forward recommendations to relevant and interested 'stakeholders'. Have a feedback period of say 12 months to prepare submissions, alternate proposals and amendments, send those back to the working party to see what can be incorporated into the original proposal and send the amended proposal back up to the committee again. Rinse and repeat. Reckon that could take easily another 6 or so years. If you're in the FFA or the APL and you're reading this (unlikely) you are a dead set disgrace.
Fuck you all.
That goes double from me too.... well said Muz.
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Remote Control
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You would think that with just a fraction of $130m they could set up a 2nd division, wouldn't you?
What on Earth are F.A doing ??
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Muz
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The APL are protecting the franchise owner's investments.
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bettega
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+xThe APL are protecting the franchise owner's investments. They are, and they are not making a secret of it. The current Chair said it straight out in the first day in office, and nothing has changed in the meantime. There will be no P&R in our lifetime. And it's sort of naive when people say: oh the owners will want P&R because they'll see the long term benefits for the game. Sure...
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LFC.
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In a nutshell it all stems back to Lowy introducing his own MLS/Australian league - were doomed for now that the APL run their own course its over. The FA's job is to represent and guide Football overall in the big picture right ? APL run its own course for we all know they don't want anything different but to sell their package ROI, whats beneath no matter. This wonderful JJ in this case should be getting FNSW/VNPL/QNPL etc all together and nut out an agreement on building up more revenue for each NPL's and YL's having more resource, lift up the semi professional environment, with the added revenue structure up YL/SAP better so as to reduce FEES and catch more playing fish instead of pushing many poor parents and kids away. Making sure each PL level is at 16teams P/R and a Minor Prem play off series. We get NPL to the next level we don't need APL.
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theFOOTBALLlover
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If people aren't happy with the lack of P&R, boycott the A-league. If people stop going, watching or discussing the A-league, maybe they will start listening to fans.
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someguyjc
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+xYou would think that with just a fraction of $130m they could set up a 2nd division, wouldn't you? What on Earth are F.A doing ?? The $130m has nothing to do with the the FA. That money goes to the APL. APL controls the A-Leagues (Men, Women & Youth). FA controls everything else, including a future 2nd div.
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SWandP
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+xYou would think that with just a fraction of $130m they could set up a 2nd division, wouldn't you? What on Earth are F.A doing ?? Where are the FA getting 130M from? Why would they use any of it for a 2nd Division which they have no responsibility for other than a basic licence and distant overview? Maybe you are confusing the Australian Professional Leagues (APL) with the FA. Chris Nikou is not on the Board of the APL. IMHO the problem lies squarely at the feet of the AAFC. If they really really want this (as they should) they can start as early as January. They won't start as an integrated competition with the A-League. Nobody ever claimed they would, or even has suggested it is desirable, as a start point. The whistle is squarely in the mouth of the AAFC. They have to blow it. Nobody else. The moment they involve others is the moment they lose control over their League and their destiny.
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patjennings
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+xIn February 2019, the AAFC announced they were of the belief that the competition could be up and running by the 2020–21 season. On 3 June 2019 the new national second division was given the green light by FFA, paving the way for the next stage of planning and a revised start date of the 2021–22 season. On 15 September 2020, a provisional list of 30 "partner clubs" was released to the public. The official partners included National Premier League clubs from every state in Australia. In a January 2021 report, the AAFC claimed that the establishment of a national second division competition would be affordable and feasible. In July 2021 report, Football Australia spokesperson confirmed to ESPN that the competition remained a priority to the federation, while its chairman Chris Nikou declared in May that he was "expecting (an NSD model) to come to the Football Australia board in the second half of this year, and I'd love to see a second division up for the 2022-23 season. So after 3 June 2019 when 2021/2022 was mentioned a little thing called Covid 19 started on 17/11/2019. Jan 2021 - AAFC says it is afforable and feasible July 2021 - FA expecting a model from the AAFC in the second half of 2021 for start in 2022-2023 Has AAFC model been received by FA? Has the second half of 2021 completed? Has the start date of 2022/2023 changed?
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Feed_The_Brox
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+xYou would think that with just a fraction of $130m they could set up a 2nd division, wouldn't you? What on Earth are F.A doing ?? firstly, the $130 million is going to the APL, not the FA. Secondly, do we even know if the second tier will be owned by the APL? THe FA? or will it be a separate entity administrated by the AAFC?
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SWandP
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+x+xYou would think that with just a fraction of $130m they could set up a 2nd division, wouldn't you? What on Earth are F.A doing ?? firstly, the $130 million is going to the APL, not the FA. Secondly, do we even know if the second tier will be owned by the APL? THe FA? or will it be a separate entity administrated by the AAFC? Every League or Competition should be "owned" by those who participate in it. This ownership, I would define, as the participants having the majority say in its administration. The Clubs that participate in a 2nd division should control the administration. If it later combines with another competition and becomes an expanded League, then all of the participants in the League should have equal say in its administration. IF the Premier Leagues insist that the 2nd Division join their organisation then they also must get an equivalent voice in the control of the League. When/If that happens then watch the politics explode.
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someguyjc
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+x+x+xYou would think that with just a fraction of $130m they could set up a 2nd division, wouldn't you? What on Earth are F.A doing ?? firstly, the $130 million is going to the APL, not the FA. Secondly, do we even know if the second tier will be owned by the APL? THe FA? or will it be a separate entity administrated by the AAFC? Every League or Competition should be "owned" by those who participate in it. This ownership, I would define, as the participants having the majority say in its administration. The Clubs that participate in a 2nd division should control the administration. It's a nice idea, however it needs to be funded. Which is why the FA will be in control. They will fund it. There is nothing technically stopping the AAFC from starting up the 2nd division themselves. They just need to fund it themselves. This seems to be the sticking point. Obviously the FA would need to endorse an independent 2nd div and take some form of fee (like they do with the APL). If the AAFC took a fully funded and fleshed model to the FA, I have no doubts they would get the endorsement. Either the AAFC simply can't afford to do so, or they don't want to go down that path.
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LFC.
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good points someguyjc and makes sense.
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df1982
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+x+x+x+xYou would think that with just a fraction of $130m they could set up a 2nd division, wouldn't you? What on Earth are F.A doing ?? firstly, the $130 million is going to the APL, not the FA. Secondly, do we even know if the second tier will be owned by the APL? THe FA? or will it be a separate entity administrated by the AAFC? Every League or Competition should be "owned" by those who participate in it. This ownership, I would define, as the participants having the majority say in its administration. The Clubs that participate in a 2nd division should control the administration. It's a nice idea, however it needs to be funded. Which is why the FA will be in control. They will fund it. There is nothing technically stopping the AAFC from starting up the 2nd division themselves. They just need to fund it themselves. This seems to be the sticking point. Obviously the FA would need to endorse an independent 2nd div and take some form of fee (like they do with the APL). If the AAFC took a fully funded and fleshed model to the FA, I have no doubts they would get the endorsement. Either the AAFC simply can't afford to do so, or they don't want to go down that path. According to the AAFC, they are proposing a self-funded model, with the clubs selected for the second tier providing seed capital to start up the league. But I think we can be rightly sceptical about whether this really is the case or whether they are actually trying to get FA to fund and run the comp. FA now has actually very little to do with club football. NPL and lower is run by the state federations (and/or districts). A-League is run by the APL. So FA really just has responsibility for NPL national finals and the FFA Cup. So if they have the NSD then that at least gives them some role in the club game. The long-term goal should be for independence, however, just like the EFL.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+xIf people aren't happy with the lack of P&R, boycott the A-league. If people stop going, watching or discussing the A-league, maybe they will start listening to fans. Ive been boycotting for 17 years now .... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+x+xYou would think that with just a fraction of $130m they could set up a 2nd division, wouldn't you? What on Earth are F.A doing ?? firstly, the $130 million is going to the APL, not the FA. Secondly, do we even know if the second tier will be owned by the APL? THe FA? or will it be a separate entity administrated by the AAFC? Every League or Competition should be "owned" by those who participate in it. This ownership, I would define, as the participants having the majority say in its administration. The Clubs that participate in a 2nd division should control the administration. It's a nice idea, however it needs to be funded. Which is why the FA will be in control. They will fund it. There is nothing technically stopping the AAFC from starting up the 2nd division themselves. They just need to fund it themselves. This seems to be the sticking point. Obviously the FA would need to endorse an independent 2nd div and take some form of fee (like they do with the APL). If the AAFC took a fully funded and fleshed model to the FA, I have no doubts they would get the endorsement. Either the AAFC simply can't afford to do so, or they don't want to go down that path. According to the AAFC, they are proposing a self-funded model, with the clubs selected for the second tier providing seed capital to start up the league. But I think we can be rightly sceptical about whether this really is the case or whether they are actually trying to get FA to fund and run the comp. FA now has actually very little to do with club football. NPL and lower is run by the state federations (and/or districts). A-League is run by the APL. So FA really just has responsibility for NPL national finals and the FFA Cup. So if they have the NSD then that at least gives them some role in the club game. The long-term goal should be for independence, however, just like the EFL. Nice ideas above re AAFC being the sole reason for alack of a national competition., but I don't think it is a fair assessment as much as people love to hate on the "petty ex NSL ethnics" who make up a majority of this group. People do realize that they are, in essence, just a lobby group that represents a bunch of clubs that believe they have a model which would work as a proposed idea for a national semi-pro league... Any "button pushing" without an official sanction from FA would mean a whole bunch of clubs, players and administrators are operating outside of the jurisdiction of the federation and FIFA... not going to happen. FA is ultimately responsible for the establishment and maintenance of ALL leagues in this country (or at least they should be). They dont have to fund it if the AAFC clubs believe they can make a go of it themselves, but they do need to approve it.... This inaction and stalling tactics is on Nikou and O'Rourke, and to some degree JJ... Lets not lay the blame on a bunch of volunteers.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+xYou would think that with just a fraction of $130m they could set up a 2nd division, wouldn't you? What on Earth are F.A doing ?? firstly, the $130 million is going to the APL, not the FA. Secondly, do we even know if the second tier will be owned by the APL? THe FA? or will it be a separate entity administrated by the AAFC? Every League or Competition should be "owned" by those who participate in it. This ownership, I would define, as the participants having the majority say in its administration. The Clubs that participate in a 2nd division should control the administration. It's a nice idea, however it needs to be funded. Which is why the FA will be in control. They will fund it. There is nothing technically stopping the AAFC from starting up the 2nd division themselves. They just need to fund it themselves. This seems to be the sticking point. Obviously the FA would need to endorse an independent 2nd div and take some form of fee (like they do with the APL). If the AAFC took a fully funded and fleshed model to the FA, I have no doubts they would get the endorsement. Either the AAFC simply can't afford to do so, or they don't want to go down that path. .... OR the FA have a different opinion on what a 2nd division will be and no matter how many plans AAFC clubs present and how pretty their graphs and bid documents are nothing will ever be good enough ...?
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someguyjc
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+x+x+x+x+xYou would think that with just a fraction of $130m they could set up a 2nd division, wouldn't you? What on Earth are F.A doing ?? firstly, the $130 million is going to the APL, not the FA. Secondly, do we even know if the second tier will be owned by the APL? THe FA? or will it be a separate entity administrated by the AAFC? Every League or Competition should be "owned" by those who participate in it. This ownership, I would define, as the participants having the majority say in its administration. The Clubs that participate in a 2nd division should control the administration. It's a nice idea, however it needs to be funded. Which is why the FA will be in control. They will fund it. There is nothing technically stopping the AAFC from starting up the 2nd division themselves. They just need to fund it themselves. This seems to be the sticking point. Obviously the FA would need to endorse an independent 2nd div and take some form of fee (like they do with the APL). If the AAFC took a fully funded and fleshed model to the FA, I have no doubts they would get the endorsement. Either the AAFC simply can't afford to do so, or they don't want to go down that path. .... OR the FA have a different opinion on what a 2nd division will be and no matter how many plans AAFC clubs present and how pretty their graphs and bid documents are nothing will ever be good enough ...? There's probably a bit of that also. However, with the FA, it all comes down to how fat the fee is.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+x+x+xYou would think that with just a fraction of $130m they could set up a 2nd division, wouldn't you? What on Earth are F.A doing ?? firstly, the $130 million is going to the APL, not the FA. Secondly, do we even know if the second tier will be owned by the APL? THe FA? or will it be a separate entity administrated by the AAFC? Every League or Competition should be "owned" by those who participate in it. This ownership, I would define, as the participants having the majority say in its administration. The Clubs that participate in a 2nd division should control the administration. It's a nice idea, however it needs to be funded. Which is why the FA will be in control. They will fund it. There is nothing technically stopping the AAFC from starting up the 2nd division themselves. They just need to fund it themselves. This seems to be the sticking point. Obviously the FA would need to endorse an independent 2nd div and take some form of fee (like they do with the APL). If the AAFC took a fully funded and fleshed model to the FA, I have no doubts they would get the endorsement. Either the AAFC simply can't afford to do so, or they don't want to go down that path. .... OR the FA have a different opinion on what a 2nd division will be and no matter how many plans AAFC clubs present and how pretty their graphs and bid documents are nothing will ever be good enough ...? There's probably a bit of that also. However, with the FA, it all comes down to how fat the fee is. Hehehe yeah probably.... This is 100% pure scuttlebutt / terrace talk but I have been lead to believe that there were 2 major sticking points, at least back in July. 1) - AAFC's insistence on clarity about potential pro/rel to Aleague and some sort of timeline on if it will EVER be on the table - also still trying to figure out how to link to the state NPLs below, there have been a few good suggestions but not surprisingly not all state feds agree on this. 2) APL is still pushing for the inclusion of half a dozen or more Aleague youth teams from the inaugural year and for it to be branded as an Aleague Youth League (+ a small handfull of NPL clubs for spice) Personally I think FA is going "into a bunker" until the 2023 World Cup comes around, hoping that the whole "toxic Matildas" thing has blown over by then and the ALeagues are still alive.
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someguyjc
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xYou would think that with just a fraction of $130m they could set up a 2nd division, wouldn't you? What on Earth are F.A doing ?? firstly, the $130 million is going to the APL, not the FA. Secondly, do we even know if the second tier will be owned by the APL? THe FA? or will it be a separate entity administrated by the AAFC? Every League or Competition should be "owned" by those who participate in it. This ownership, I would define, as the participants having the majority say in its administration. The Clubs that participate in a 2nd division should control the administration. It's a nice idea, however it needs to be funded. Which is why the FA will be in control. They will fund it. There is nothing technically stopping the AAFC from starting up the 2nd division themselves. They just need to fund it themselves. This seems to be the sticking point. Obviously the FA would need to endorse an independent 2nd div and take some form of fee (like they do with the APL). If the AAFC took a fully funded and fleshed model to the FA, I have no doubts they would get the endorsement. Either the AAFC simply can't afford to do so, or they don't want to go down that path. .... OR the FA have a different opinion on what a 2nd division will be and no matter how many plans AAFC clubs present and how pretty their graphs and bid documents are nothing will ever be good enough ...? There's probably a bit of that also. However, with the FA, it all comes down to how fat the fee is. Hehehe yeah probably.... This is 100% pure scuttlebutt / terrace talk but I have been lead to believe that there were 2 major sticking points, at least back in July. 1) - AAFC's insistence on clarity about potential pro/rel to Aleague and some sort of timeline on if it will EVER be on the table - also still trying to figure out how to link to the state NPLs below, there have been a few good suggestions but not surprisingly not all state feds agree on this. 2) APL is still pushing for the inclusion of half a dozen or more Aleague youth teams from the inaugural year and for it to be branded as an Aleague Youth League (+ a small handfull of NPL clubs for spice) Personally I think FA is going "into a bunker" until the 2023 World Cup comes around, hoping that the whole "toxic Matildas" thing has blown over by then and the ALeagues are still alive. Clarity on P&R would be a must, otherwise they may as well just stick with the NPL system. For a 2nd div to work well, the roadmap needs to be clear from day one. Even if they say promotion to the AL will commence in the year 2034, that will be fine (albeit not ideal). It would still be a line in the sand and everyone can plan for the future. It would give 2nd div clubs a genuine carrot that they can plan around obtaining. AL clubs will have ample time to put in place procedures for relegation. Unfortunately, everything in this country is always half-arsed. They never say, we want A, B and C and we will do X,Y and Z to achieve A, B and C. Instead it's always, we want A, B and C, but we will only do X and then wait until an undetermined point in time to discuss the possibility of doing Y.
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theFOOTBALLlover
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I can't believe people still blame the NPL clubs for not having the NSD. It should be up the the governing body to organise a model and allow clubs to meet the requirements set out. Once the pyramid is open, the best clubs will rise to the top and the crap clubs will go to the bottom.
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