Very sad.

The body of ex-Socceroo has been discovered in bushland in northern NSW less than 48-hours after he disappeared.

Officers located Stephen Laybutt’s body near Cabarita on the North Coast at about 7pm on Sunday after an extensive police search.

Haven't  seen him play yet, but footballers I know off forum are raving about Mark Natta, (is that his name?  He has black, bushy hair) the young Centre Back from Jets. Consensus is he has a big future as a future Socceroo prospect.

Any thoughts from others who've seen him play a bit? 

He and Robertson are going to play in the Olympics instead. Arnie wanted them to concentrate on club football instead of playing Asian Cup.

Must admit in the one Socceroo game  Circati played, I would prefer him to Deng as a CB. However, Deng may be more adaptable to play RB as well.

Another  underperforming striker may be JMac at international level against reasonable opposition?

Everybody saw how proficient he was scoring 3 in a half against Bangla, but JMac struggles against tighter international defences. Bangla didn't track his runs, like better international defences have done effectively.

Ditto Scott McDonald. Couldn't score a goal in 25 appearances for the Socceroos, yet he was dynamite in Scottish club football.

Viduka was a star club player too, but maybe all three of these players, for varying reasons, didn't have the international success expected of them?

sorry wrong thread

How come Circatti isn't in the asian cup squad??

I can't see anywhere he is injured 

For Viduka’s incredible ability he always seemed to underperform for us, clearly the likes of Duke, Cahill and even Josh Kennedy got better results than him.

Still crazy how Mitch Duke has more goals in fewer games than Mark Viduka did for Australia. 3 years ago, hating Mitch Duke was topical but now he has become a pretty solid option. I'd say it's a mix of Duke over-performing and Viduka severely underperforming. Duke ability in the air also helps add up the numbers against weaker opposition, Cahill can attest to that.

https://keepup.com.au/news/socceroos-news-asian-cup-mitch-duke-goals-viduka/?fbclid=IwAR2EAVIZo1WjLLpJHsFLQjTQnm_rV1RyVdMxmfnh1ki4vlbj8zRsHFu-kbE

Luongo last played for Swindon 2014.
Bad ownership set it backwards hence Clem buying in.

Rafa coached Newcastle back up after relegation 2016 - typically a spaniard and successful LFC gaffa.

Alot has changed the last 8yrs and obviously so many foreign coachs influence that and countless imports incl improving english players.
Be it from EPL down.
Poms were always smash grab conquer like their pioneering days hence their ol style of play, aggressive and get it up the field pronto BUT I defy that depending the Clubs, LFC through those dominate times played nothing like hoofball, people today call it counters so I have a giggle for that type of play was being used regularly back then.
EPL is the hub of football for years now though don't call me a eurosnob :) but I luv the history/culture/influences and true model creating such competitveness and all this keeps filtering down the Leagues.
Its what our country lacks so so much.

I am not fussed about the lack of high end English coachs getting runs on the board abroad - you can't be good at everything, Spain is the leader of high end travelling coachs more than any other country that I can tell.
Are their NT winning of late ? no. Yes obviously their coachs have influenced the game so so much.
Mind you Venebles done ok and as mentioned Robson did great, Roy done ok look what he has done https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Hodgson#Honours.
Young Potter did very well at Brighton he may pick up Southgates ball in the future..

I know what Foster and etc have quoted, thankfully were improving but don't think we were at the bottom of the pile compared to so many other countries, like I've said we punch above our weight, we did so back in the under funded amatuer NSL days as well go figure.

The Reserve MU bloke is Mike Phelan, did alot at CCM might I add.

Shame.

Swindon stood out a few years ago. They played modern football.

The clubs I've recently seen have been Ipswich (Ch), Wimbledon ( they didn't have the ball much), Stockport (L2) and Aldershot ( Conference), the first, third and fourth of these teams played slick football on the deck.  The camera was at a lower angle, which makes games look faster.

However, compared to when I watched Ch, l1, L2, a lot a few years back when only Luongo's Swindon in League One, and whoever Rafael Benitez coached in the Champ ( good football team) plus Notts' Forest and Derby County in the Champ, most teams were awful - including Jedi's Palace in the Championship. It was out and out hoofball. It was scrappy, move the  ball forwards as quickly as possible, second ball football.  Teams barely possessed the ball for any length of time.

 At Football Aus coaching conferences some English Lower League coaches' half time and addresses were recorded and played - I thought they were comedies! There was little difference from their instructions to Mike Bassett's - the comedy! Everything was the players' fault - with lots of personal attacks and abuse of players - nothing to to do with the coach's ineptitude form lack of coach education at problem solving as to  what was going wrong  on the pitch!

Now I can't believe what I'm seeing?   A pleasant surprise.  We are seeing lots of ball playing CBs, playing out from the back, sustained periods of possession on the deck, etc.

There has been a lot of recent data, showing how length of periods  of  Possession from Opta slightly diminishes from EPL, Champ, League One and League Two. Grazor has produced stats to show that these teams are starting to play continental style football , simply with the number of passes completed per game.

Conversely, Scotland outside Rangers and Celtic, and now Monty coaching one  of the Edinburgh teams, there is still a lot of hoofball. 

About 6-8 years ago Harry Redknapp wouldn't  listen to English Football Assoc Tech Dir, Dan Ashworth. Harry reflected the typical English coach in the EPL.

I'm not sure if the Football Assoc coach education has radically changed? Or it is the influence of so many Continental coaches coaching in England chasing the big bucks?  I take my hat off to the entire changing football  milieu in England.

 England have recently won under 17 and under 20 world championships - under Southgate, I think. In the past English clubs tried to discourage young players playing for England national underage teams, saying they were better off with the club.  England  struggled as a consequence. Not anymore.

Now Southgate has progressed to senior football, IMO England are performing similarly to the quality of their domestic players in the EPL. Last four in Russia WC, finalist in 2020 Euro Champs, last eight in Qatar WC - consistent performances on the big stage. English seniors are performing better as a team unit. 

I'm not kidding about tactics in the AL.  Coaches coaching in the AL are far better trained - and have been for about 12 years.  Berger 's overhaul was incredible. Speak to former Socceroos Craig Foster, Ante Jukic or Alistair Edwards, about  the  differing levels of coaching quality that Aus has adopted. I keep saying it, but our curriculum and coach education was developed based on Spain ( Barca Academy), France ( Clarefontaine), Netherlands ( KNVB) and German Football Fed.

A few years back when some L1 commentators stated one had to go to the EPL to observe sophisticated systems playing out from the back,  all  coaches in Aus were trained to do it. It is usually the imported French, Dutch, Spanish and German coaches in the AL who have had most success, outside the domestic Aussies.

The reserve Man U coach ( what was his name/) did things completely  differently at Melb City, than Aus, Spanish, German, French or Dutch coaches would do similarly -  within a framework.

You are giving past English coaches far too much credit.  Many have been former pros with no formal coaching training or accreditation. They were a laughing stock for most of the Dutch coach educators training Aussie coaches. There were a fraction of formally accredited semi- pro and pro  coaches in England, compared to Spain, France, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Italy and Portugal.

Which English coaches have coached foreign national teams to be greater than the sum of their parts?

Steve MacLaren had qualified success in Netherlands' Eredivisie, plus El Tel and Brian Robson did in Spain at club level. They are the exceptions though - not the norm.

However, looking at the current playing style  of Lower League teams, plus  national English team success in seniors and underage, there may have been a metamorphosis in English football - for the better. 

 

 

English lower leagues (Championship down) are always a better option than SPL for eg, trouble is seems many Clubs are not that interested.
D2 I watch alot of UK football and most grounds are in good shape down to Conference for years and years, its mostly the facilites for some are way out of date due to low funds and struggling to gain promotions.
They don't have the tactical sophiscation of most AL teams ? you kidding me right.
I'd put money on WrexhamFC League2 do each of the AL Clubs if it was a proper full on contest not exhibition.

An ol football playing mate of mine Clem who owns Swindon townFC where Luongo had 3 stints - he had quoted he had hopes his club would be one gateway for budding young aussies, wish it were the case and wonder why bugger all have been considered to date.

The question is why arn't more budding up and comers getting a guernsey in lower League UK Clubs ?
Yep far longer proper seasons - competition. P/R experiences you name it, what a nursery for development.

With the longer season and now better pitches, the English lower leagues are better options for Aussies than they were. They don't have the tactical sophistication of most A L teams, which is now a much more technical style, and tactically sound league than it was, but Arnie has convinced me that the longer British season is paramount for faster development of younger players. 

Looking up a lot of the AL imports, many have played in France. They are usually older players, who are good technicians and tactically savvy, who tend to let the domestic Aussies do the graft. The good news is they are are augmenting the style of play that Football Aus Tech dept wants to see in in Aus. 

Just looking back at a few Socceroo  replays on Paramount, Hrustic produces moments of absolute brilliance!

He is one of the best technicians we have with the ball at his feet. Scored a brilliant goal to knock the UAE out of the WCQ campaign in the Asian sudden death play off for 5th spot. Made an incredible assist for another goal in another game, with a pinpoint Bresciano type lob.


Hrustic just lacks game sense, concentration and defensive impetus.

Arnie prefers hard working, flexible, midfield grafters like Irvine and Metcalfe. They have game sense, endurance, athleticism, concentration and defensive impetus in spades. They have nothing like Hrustic's technique and brilliance on the ball though.

What I like about Nisbet and Danny De Silva, who may be a rare player that Arnie may have had issues with on the training track, is their lower centre of gravity which enhances nimbleness and ability change direction quickly. 

They are effective dribbling and passing and moving in confined spaces.

Impressed with both Nieuwenhof and Tollman too.

One of the big issues in the Hiddink/ Baan/Berger/Pim era, was how few DMs and AMs/Tens we were producing. Now it appears  these are the positions where we have greatest depth!

I think there's a lot of opportunity in England right now. For young talented Australians maybe 18-23, you have a good chance to make a name and get minutes at League One level. We have struggled to bring players through playing in Germany in the past few years, Italy has been solid for Italian dual citizens and I think England has been overall rewarding for overseas moves. Oh and Scotland. 

Heard a good podcast a few years ago with Mark Rudan and Craig Foster. The topic was all the players they've coached who  they both thought had the talent to be pro players - but without an AL 2 in Aus, and only 11 pro clubs, the players just couldn't get a chance to ever show what they could do at pro level. There weren't enough opportunities. Many of them have been lost to the pro game.

Juts looking at some English Lower League and Conference games in the FA Cup, there is a lot of depth and for opportunities in England. Going down from EPL, Championship, League, I, League 2 and Conference, there is only a slight drop in standard as one goes down all five pro leagues - with about 20 teams in each division, equating to 100 pro clubs, compared to our 11.

Here there is a huge drop   from the A L down to the best NPL teams. The NPL teams play the Cup Games, against AL teams, when the AL teams have heavy training legs in pre-season. Hence, the AL teams aren't at their best.

I think we hear too much about it. A good example is Italiano. People had too much expectation because he went to Germany but realistically he wasn't that good when he left and unsurprisingly still isn't good. So we never hear the end of how "it doesn't work when younger players go overseas" but we aren't always sending our best players overseas, most of these guys are just dual citizenship players and because they sign overseas they get hyped up. Should be proven in Australia first before they can be labelled as a disappointment. 

Some have made it and some haven't, that's the point. It's not necessarily a negative thing going over young because it has worked before and seems to be getting better.  They're overseas because they are the first choice U20 CB's in the country right now. If you've watched them play then you'd probably agree. They were bred A-League academy players and signing and playing the Celtic II team and Lecce Primavera. They definitely shouldn't be labelled as European academy players. Also, they are playing at higher level's than any U20 CB counterparts in Aus. 

The guy asked about if there are any U20 CB's in line after Circati and Triantis and the obvious two are Bonetig and Esposito who have both shined in the U20 system and in the NPL. It's different to those you mentioned because these two were already good when heading over. The rest are just guys who either were born in other countries or players who went overseas but weren't good enough. 

The point stands, if Esposito and Bonetig didn't sign overseas a few months ago and were still in the A-League they would still number 1 and 2 on the list of U20 CB's. 

We don't tend to hear much about the guys who don't make it, but only the few that do.

Has it though? How is Watts, Armenekas, Zach Duncan, Italiano, Theoharous, Pasquali, Tristan Hammond, Hosine Bility, Kwame Yeboah, …list could go on. 

They were both A-League guys or academy NPL guys just a few months ago. But have gotten their European moves at a younger age than most and that has also proven to work on many occasions, e.g Volpato, Robertson and Circati. These two were the best U20's CB's the A-League had and that's why they moved to Europe, obviously in the next few years its a question of whether or not other A-League U20 CB's can overtake them.

True, though academy players that get at least some senior minutes for a big club at a young age tend to turn out to be at least ok

so i suspect peupion will be ok

We have seen time and time again that players overseas in academies aren't necessarily better than the A-league guys

Two U20 CB prospects are Bonetig at Celtic and Esposito at Lecce. Two good prospects playing at higher levels than their national counterparts at ages 18. Both will be essential for the next U20 World Cup cycle.

Acl injury. Should be back next season

His ball carrying and first touch were good when I watched him.

Can't remember him trying to dribble?

Just looking at the replay against Argentina, Atkinson had a very good game. He held his own against the world class Argentinian winger, whose name escapes me.

His defensive ball winning and jockeying skills have improved in Scotland.