A-League ratings down, but new streaming app likely to blame


A-League ratings down, but new streaming app likely to blame

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https://www.theage.com.au/sport/soccer/a-league-ratings-down-but-20181030-p50czl.html

A-League executives are reserving judgment on declining television ratings until streaming figures are available and a clearer picture emerges of just how much the viewing habits of football fans have changed in a shifting technological landscape.

Two rounds into the new campaign, ratings on Fox Sports are down by approximately 31 per cent on last season. It's a concerning fall, particularly given there was also a sharp 24 per cent decrease last season, but there are several mitigating circumstances.

For one, crowds are up in both the A-League and W-League, which indicates wider interest levels in the game haven't simply nosedived. Foxtel subscriptions have been on the slide as audiences flock to services like Netflix and Stan, while Optus' recent purchase of the English Premier League rights has impacted on how fans of the round ball game spend their money.

Anecdotal evidence also suggests there has been a significant take-up of the new My Football Live app launched by Football Federation Australia this season, which offers Telstra customers free streams of all A-League, W-League and FFA Cup matches.

Greg O'Rourke, the head of the A-League, said FFA would not receive data on how many times matches have been viewed through the app for another week or two, as collection methods are not as sophisticated as they are for TV ratings. The numbers may not be released publicly if Telstra deems them to be commercial in confidence, but O'Rourke is hoping they will neatly explain the shortfall.

"It's a bit of a wait and see," O'Rourke said. "Every streaming view is obviously going to close that gap. We have to wait three or four weeks to see if it's doing as we had forecast or whether or not we've got more work to do in that area."

Foxtel is poised to unveil their own response to the streaming revolution. The pay TV giants are expected to roll out a platform which CEO Patrick Delany has described as the "Netflix of sport" in the coming weeks. It could allow punters to access competitions like the A-League at a much lower price point than through a traditional cable connection.

Meanwhile, the governing body is considering a few tweaks to the FFA Cup which could take shape next season. O'Rourke confirmed the FFA was contemplating whether to hold the final before the start of the A-League, rather than two rounds in as is the case this year.

FFA is also trying to work out how the allocation of Cup berths will be affected by A-League expansion. All 10 teams from the top tier currently enter the tournament in the round of 32 but with two new clubs due to join the A-League in either 2019-20 or the season after, it's not clear how they can be accommodated without diminishing opportunities for NPL clubs. Some state federations, including South Australia, are petitioning for greater representation in the FFA Cup, so any reduction would be met with fierce resistance.




Closed HAL is failing with 10 teams
Closed HAL failed with 11
FFA forced to try a 12 team Closed HAL thatll just create 2 more mid table also-rans
and still this weird 16-team panacea gets trotted out. 
Theres a sticky for this nonsense
https://forum.insidesport.com.au/1617388/The-Aleague-Expansion-Thread

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Closed HAL is failing with 10 teams
Closed HAL failed with 11
FFA forced to try a 12 team Closed HAL thatll just create 2 more mid table also-rans
and still this weird 16-team panacea gets trotted out. 
Theres a sticky for this nonsense
https://forum.insidesport.com.au/1617388/The-Aleague-Expansion-Thread

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"Foxtel is poised to unveil their own response to the streaming revolution. The pay TV giants are expected to roll out a platform which CEO Patrick Delany has described as the "Netflix of sport" in the coming weeks. It could allow punters to access competitions like the A-League at a much lower price point than through a traditional cable connection."

This is good news, I am happy to pay Foxtel a reasonable price for the quality football service they provide, what I am not prepared to do is pay overs to pay for their beefed up AFL/NRL and Cricket deals.


If I can access the A-league on fox for under about $20-30 a month then I will.



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2 Years Ago by Eldar
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Doesnt make sense

Ratings are done on a sample of ~2200 households. Thats it. Nobody else has an impact on ratings

This article suggests households selected to be part of the sample are ... what?
Turning off Foxtel and watching the game through an app instead?

Ridiculous






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bluebird - 31 Oct 2018 12:51 PM
Doesnt make sense

Ratings are done on a sample of ~2200 households. Thats it. Nobody else has an impact on ratings

This article suggests households selected to be part of the sample are ... what?
Turning off Foxtel and watching the game through an app instead?

Ridiculous



I was under the impression that Foxtel are able to track metrics directly via their boxes - it's only FTA which is the averaged number across households.
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walnuts - 31 Oct 2018 1:02 PM
bluebird - 31 Oct 2018 12:51 PM

I was under the impression that Foxtel are able to track metrics directly via their boxes - it's only FTA which is the averaged number across households.

So exactly 47,000 people watched the game?




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Always got an excuse. 
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WSF - 31 Oct 2018 1:56 PM
Always got an excuse. 
What excuses? You mean the reasonable explanation on when he expects to receive the final figures?
Greg O'Rourke, the head of the A-League, said FFA would not receive data on how many times matches have been viewed through the app for another week or two,



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paulc - 31 Oct 2018 2:37 PM
WSF - 31 Oct 2018 1:56 PM

What excuses? You mean the reasonable explanation on when he expects to receive the final figures?

Greg O'Rourke, the head of the A-League, said FFA would not receive data on how many times matches have been viewed through the app for another week or two,


You're saying it's reasonable

The Tech Expert says it's a lie.

Closed HAL is failing with 10 teams
Closed HAL failed with 11
FFA forced to try a 12 team Closed HAL thatll just create 2 more mid table also-rans
and still this weird 16-team panacea gets trotted out. 
Theres a sticky for this nonsense
https://forum.insidesport.com.au/1617388/The-Aleague-Expansion-Thread

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https://i.imgur.com/Cdn8gct.png


Somewhat typical response from our media so so so so so so lacking in any depth or understanding, it's IMO so sad as our media is very often so quick to criticise as if they are Gods with eternal wisdom ... it's also adds to a narrative of hopeless management ....   so we have a journalist now saying he understands how to measure streaming and all the teck heads, nerds, analysis's etc must be hopeless ... OR is it the journalist who is never used to being questioned about beyond stupid writing... 

Consider some of  streaming measurement difficulties ....

You can get someone who is watching live and decides they want to check a post the see has been sent so they go away for say 10 minutes and come back...  on TV the leaving does not show...

So how do you measure do you count a 5 second view as a view or does the watcher have to not turn off ... and then you have the delayed viewer who watches after the game and stop's a couple of times and re starts... when do you stop counting the next hour after the match, next day, next week, next month ... and how do you measure what is a viewer how long do they have to watch.... and all this is somewhat new especially to our Telco's and advertisers ...

Football's demographic is young and it seems our supporters would be more into streaming than pay TV or FTA TV...

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Midfielder - 31 Oct 2018 2:52 PM
https://i.imgur.com/Cdn8gct.png


Somewhat typical response from our media so so so so so so lacking in any depth or understanding, it's IMO so sad as our media is very often so quick to criticise as if they are Gods with eternal wisdom ... it's also adds to a narrative of hopeless management ....   so we have a journalist now saying he understands how to measure streaming and all the teck heads, nerds, analysis's etc must be hopeless ... OR is it the journalist who is never used to being questioned about beyond stupid writing... 

Consider some of  streaming measurement difficulties ....

It's the techhead making the statement, is he wrong ?

Closed HAL is failing with 10 teams
Closed HAL failed with 11
FFA forced to try a 12 team Closed HAL thatll just create 2 more mid table also-rans
and still this weird 16-team panacea gets trotted out. 
Theres a sticky for this nonsense
https://forum.insidesport.com.au/1617388/The-Aleague-Expansion-Thread

Edited
2 Years Ago by Buggalugs 2.0
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bluebird - 31 Oct 2018 1:51 PM
walnuts - 31 Oct 2018 1:02 PM

So exactly 47,000 people watched the game?

Hard to believe they wouldn't know exactly what channel the boxes are on at any time. I'd say the 47k is a rounded number.
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Buggalugs 2.0 - 31 Oct 2018 2:56 PM
Midfielder - 31 Oct 2018 2:52 PM

It's the techhead making the statement, is he wrong ?

Buggalugs 2.0 - 31 Oct 2018 2:56 PM
Midfielder - 31 Oct 2018 2:52 PM

It's the techhead making the statement, is he wrong ?

I have said what I think some of the issues are.... have a chat to ""TheSelectFew"" he did an outstanding job over two years on NPL ratings... and he will tell you some of the difficulties in web ratings just teh difference between facebook and youtube numbers on the same game... 

 


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Telstra will know precisely how many people are streaming their content. Exactly +/- 0 with no argument (if you disagree with that statement just go and google the topic, it’s all out there).

Telstra though will be very guarded on that number and may not want it published because it allows competitors to put a value on it and potentially compete with them in future years.

If I were the ffa I’d want some facts to know if my lost viewers are changing platforms and whether Telstra will provide it though is another question.

The Derby got 169,000 across ONE/FoxSports plus another 6,000 streamed on GO apparently. That’s 175,000 plus MyFootball .. let’s say 200,000 in total but spread across 4 platforms - that’s a huge change in how the product is valued and divided it may be worth significantly less than a single buyer.


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Buggalugs 2.0 - 31 Oct 2018 2:56 PM
Midfielder - 31 Oct 2018 2:52 PM

It's the techhead making the statement, is he wrong ?

Neither of them are probably wrong in this instance. 

For instance Stuart Randall (SBS) told me yesterday that during the World Cup there was a contrast between the data SBS were getting straight off the encoder, and what the analytics companies were telling them. Its likely to be true here as well - more so, Im not even sure the FFA would even have access to the back end as its a Telstra, not FFA, operation.





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Technically there is no reason they wouldn't know the exact number of people watching at any one time.
They would also know how long they watched for, how many times they reconnected, maximum number of people watching at once etc.
How they want to quantify the results is a decision that once they make, the final ratings will be calculated within seconds.

There is no technical reason preventing the data being released.  The technical reason is not technical but political.

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phutbol - 31 Oct 2018 3:02 PM
bluebird - 31 Oct 2018 1:51 PM

Hard to believe they wouldn't know exactly what channel the boxes are on at any time. I'd say the 47k is a rounded number.

How many people in the house watched it?

Why arent attendances rounded?




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T1m - 31 Oct 2018 3:48 PM
Technically there is no reason they wouldn't know the exact number of people watching at any one time.
They would also know how long they watched for, how many times they reconnected, maximum number of people watching at once etc.
How they want to quantify the results is a decision that once they make, the final ratings will be calculated within seconds.

There is no technical reason preventing the data being released.  The technical reason is not technical but political.

When Bein was an add on for Fox and I went to get it switched off, I told the guy on the phone I was switching it off because I wasn't using it enough he gave me a list of all the things I had been watching and said I seem to be using it a fair bit.


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I think someone above hinted that the number of devices streaming is different to how many are actually watching, it's not a one for one relationship, so you can measure the number of devices accurately, and the time watched to the second, but that's a different number to the number of people watching
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bettega - 31 Oct 2018 4:10 PM
I think someone above hinted that the number of devices streaming is different to how many are actually watching, it's not a one for one relationship, so you can measure the number of devices accurately, and the time watched to the second, but that's a different number to the number of people watching

How does standard tv ratings measure this?
They would be able to use the same method with probably a smaller multiplier.

Regardless of how they measure it, it will be much more accurate than standard tv rating guesses

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Waz - 31 Oct 2018 3:27 PM
Telstra will know precisely how many people are streaming their content. Exactly +/- 0 r.

Waz

No offence but you seem to have fallen for the same line as the post that essentially took a screen snap of who was watching.

Let me use myself as a streaming example.... Between my business and my two homes I have Five Optus mobiles, three land line numbers, and three unlimited internet connections so am a reasonably large customer so they give me the EPL for free... my team in the EPL is Liverpool...

If on early I will stream but if on late I will watch latter and sometimes nay often watch latter in two or three different times.... I will sometimes watch other teams and sometimes watch an entire other game that Liverpool is not playing... I often look at the weekly highlight packages .

So how are they going to measure my viewing live during the game or only if I sit thu and entire game latter on... or can they somehow add up maybe 6 or 7 different times I may click on to watch the complete Liverpool game and do they take off when someone is injured and I skip forward.

Simply look at the difference between facebook and youtube views ... facebook count for nano second....

What seems very easy is far more complex and as the article says thy are still trying to work it out.


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T1m - 31 Oct 2018 4:12 PM
bettega - 31 Oct 2018 4:10 PM

How does standard tv ratings measure this?
They would be able to use the same method with probably a smaller multiplier.

Regardless of how they measure it, it will be much more accurate than standard tv rating guesses

I'm not saying one or the other is better.

The standard survey does collect info on who was home watching the TV, for example, a rating of 50,000 might represent 25,000 households (with 2 per household watching the show in question).

The streaming data is extremely accurate, I said that, but only as far as measuring individual devices - it does not measure how many people are watching whatever is getting streamed.  Is anyone trying to measure that?  I don't know.

Anyway, the streaming numbers I've seen so far are not huge, which is a big surprise.

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@ Mid.

You’ve maybe got a confused argument going on. Let’s separate the two out.

First off, is the number of live streams (and later downloads) - This number is known exactly to the nearest “1”.

That was my point so let’s not confuse that with the second argument which is valid:

The second argument is, even if we know exactly how many streams are going on how can we determine how many people are watching. The answer is, you can’t.

OzTAM will have a numeric value that each “viewer” is equal to x people which presumably has some basis in fact, but even then OzTAM don’t know whether 1 person is watching FoxSports or whether there’s a Party going on and 25 are watching it (or even if no one is watching it and the set top box has just been left on).

That will be relevant to the ffa if the streaming numbers don’t equal the FoxSports fall off.

There’s an additional bit which I’m not sure I understand but the platforms being used provide extensive reporting that include total number of streams, average viewing length, number of times people drop out and come back, the duration they leave for, when they leave eg do they drop out at half time and come back for the second half or drop out when an Ad is shown. The available meta data is huge, but it can’t tell you how many people are watching the screen (although it’s a mobile device so likely to be low eg one)
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Midfielder - 31 Oct 2018 4:18 PM
Waz - 31 Oct 2018 3:27 PM

Waz

No offence but you seem to have fallen for the same line as the post that essentially took a screen snap of who was watching.

Let me use myself as a streaming example.... Between my business and my two homes I have Five Optus mobiles, three land line numbers, and three unlimited internet connections so am a reasonably large customer so they give me the EPL for free... my team in the EPL is Liverpool...

If on early I will stream but if on late I will watch latter and sometimes nay often watch latter in two or three different times.... I will sometimes watch other teams and sometimes watch an entire other game that Liverpool is not playing... I often look at the weekly highlight packages .

So how are they going to measure my viewing live during the game or only if I sit thu and entire game latter on... or can they somehow add up maybe 6 or 7 different times I may click on to watch the complete Liverpool game and do they take off when someone is injured and I skip forward.

Simply look at the difference between facebook and youtube views ... facebook count for nano second....

What seems very easy is far more complex and as the article says thy are still trying to work it out.


Most of those arguments have the same or similar problems measuring using tv ratings so they are moot

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T1m - 31 Oct 2018 4:51 PM
Midfielder - 31 Oct 2018 4:18 PM

Most of those arguments have the same or similar problems measuring using tv ratings so they are moot

Exactly, why trust one but not the other ?

Closed HAL is failing with 10 teams
Closed HAL failed with 11
FFA forced to try a 12 team Closed HAL thatll just create 2 more mid table also-rans
and still this weird 16-team panacea gets trotted out. 
Theres a sticky for this nonsense
https://forum.insidesport.com.au/1617388/The-Aleague-Expansion-Thread

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https://mediaweek.com.au/history-of-a-league-ratings/

The data below, which is an average for every match of the season, including finals, shows season 2012/2013 was strongest with an average over 70,000.

A-League season average on Fox Sports:

2005-2006 – 42,054
2006-2007 – 55,465
2007-2008 – 69,745
2008-2009 – 63,792
2009-2010 – 54,018
2010-2011 – 44,968
2011-2012 – 65,789
2012-2013 – 74,659
2013-2014 – 65,109
2014-2015 – 59,749
2015-2016 – 55,193
2016-2017 – 63,422
2017-2018 – 51,169
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Buggalugs 2.0 - 31 Oct 2018 2:49 PM
paulc - 31 Oct 2018 2:37 PM

You're saying it's reasonable

The Tech Expert says it's a lie.

It does matter if it's the truth or lie, whether it's accurate or not or whether the data can be collated instantly or longer.

If FFA haven't got it from Telstra they haven't go it.


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paulc - 31 Oct 2018 6:55 PM
Buggalugs 2.0 - 31 Oct 2018 2:49 PM

It does matter if it's the truth or lie, whether it's accurate or not or whether the data can be collated instantly or longer.

If FFA haven't got it from Telstra they haven't go it.

So its an excuse. 
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WSF - 31 Oct 2018 7:06 PM
paulc - 31 Oct 2018 6:55 PM

So its an excuse. 

Excuse for what? It's a quoted reported statement of a factual event.


In a resort somewhere

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thats some disgusting data analytics.. the big boys are all on real time now...
GO


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