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AJF
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe shortsightedness of the FFA to let Lakeside Stadium slip out of Football managed hands and become an athletics venue is one the game will never be able to rectify. We had a boutique football managed ground on the outskirts of the CBD and the FFA stripped it of its main source of income by pulling national games. South had no option but to take Eddie Macguire's redevelopment deal. It secured a future they would never have been able to afford on State League revenues. Albert Park was the cradle of Victorian Football. It is an international standard sporting precinct enjoyed by millions in person and on TV each year... and the football community let it slip. Honestly devastates me. Not sure what you are on (too much ouzo?) but your version of the stadiums history is totally wrong. SM used to play out of middle park which was demolished for the Melb GP track (Vic Government not FFA). SM agreed to a sweetheart deal to move to the redeveloped "Lake Oval" (an AFL ground) which became Lakeside stadium. This happened in 1994 so SM was still in the NSL, not the state leagues. The athletics track was added in 2009 when Collingwood bought Olympic Park and Athletics Vic needed a new home. By that stage Vic Government had already started building AAMI to replace it for football, rugby, etc, and SM was long gone from the national stage. Albert park was only ever the cradle of South Melbounre and their inflated egos but Vic football heartland has always been in Melbournes West and North. South had no choice but to accept the Eddie McGuire deal after it was overlooked for Heart. I was at the bid presentation in early 2008 and no running track was mentioned anywhere. After that the club had to cut its losses and accept having athletics and the vis come on board as the club almost certainly would have been booted out with the original lease only having a few years left to run. Lakeside in its current form is criminally underutilised, athletics meets are half of what they were in the olympic park days. The venue has been around 8 years since its redevolpmemt and its only hosted 1 big event (usain bolt) Robbie Williams will be performing a concert there in March during grand prix and then the venue drifts to irrelevance again. As for the area itself youre seriously shortchanging it. Middle park and then bob jane was the home of most npl finals and grand final matches. I'd say thats pretty important. 100% If the FFA, and the FFV were smarter they would have helped protect that asset for the whole game. Now instead we're talking about a stadium in Tarneit - which will be the same size, which is miles away from anything and doesn't currently exist. I miss the old Bob Jane and am sad it's gone - unfortunately the Athletics track was South's only option for long term viability. Also AJF, Albert Park is the cradle of football in Victoria. It's history FAAAAAAR predates South and it's a shame people don't know more about the pre-migration days of football. https://neoskosmos.com/en/121947/how-south-melbournes-football-history-dates-back-to-1883/ The discussion isnt about albert park but rather the over inflated ego and claims of SMFC. Maybe you should edit your comment earlier in the chain then "Albert park was only ever the cradle of South Melbounre and their inflated egos but Vic football heartland has always been in Melbournes West and North." no, thats still valid Whether you like it or not Albert Park has a significant football history before South Melbourne FC, and Australia has a football history before migration. We need to do more to recognise the sport's stories in the early 1900s and late 1800s. Wow, they played football there in the 1880's so that means SMFC can claim it is the cradle of Vic football. What about the other 3 teams that played in the league at the time, do Richmond, Prahran and Carlton also get to claim to be the centre of Vic Soccer? Also first Club was actually called South Melbourne not Albert Park. https://www.vu.edu.au/news-events/media-releases/130-years-of-soccer-or-notAlso interestingly, in 1884 the entire season was played out of Richmond Football club, ( https://www.tigerlandarchive.org/tiki-index.php?page=1884+Chronology) so is Tigerland now the cradle of Victorian football Let me sat this slowly so you understand....... my point isnt about the history of Albert Park but SMFC's wild claims to be the centre of football
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SoccerLogic
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+x+x+xThe Stadium (Land swap) is only a small part of the whole development although it is a late addition from what I can find. it is a late addition. there was originally supposed to be a gym/leisure centre on the stadium site. Reading reports - The gym/leisure centre and indoor stadium/sports venue are going ahead as well as WUFC stadium Great news! Link?
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SoccerLogic
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 602,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThe shortsightedness of the FFA to let Lakeside Stadium slip out of Football managed hands and become an athletics venue is one the game will never be able to rectify. We had a boutique football managed ground on the outskirts of the CBD and the FFA stripped it of its main source of income by pulling national games. South had no option but to take Eddie Macguire's redevelopment deal. It secured a future they would never have been able to afford on State League revenues. Albert Park was the cradle of Victorian Football. It is an international standard sporting precinct enjoyed by millions in person and on TV each year... and the football community let it slip. Honestly devastates me. Not sure what you are on (too much ouzo?) but your version of the stadiums history is totally wrong. SM used to play out of middle park which was demolished for the Melb GP track (Vic Government not FFA). SM agreed to a sweetheart deal to move to the redeveloped "Lake Oval" (an AFL ground) which became Lakeside stadium. This happened in 1994 so SM was still in the NSL, not the state leagues. The athletics track was added in 2009 when Collingwood bought Olympic Park and Athletics Vic needed a new home. By that stage Vic Government had already started building AAMI to replace it for football, rugby, etc, and SM was long gone from the national stage. Albert park was only ever the cradle of South Melbounre and their inflated egos but Vic football heartland has always been in Melbournes West and North. South had no choice but to accept the Eddie McGuire deal after it was overlooked for Heart. I was at the bid presentation in early 2008 and no running track was mentioned anywhere. After that the club had to cut its losses and accept having athletics and the vis come on board as the club almost certainly would have been booted out with the original lease only having a few years left to run. Lakeside in its current form is criminally underutilised, athletics meets are half of what they were in the olympic park days. The venue has been around 8 years since its redevolpmemt and its only hosted 1 big event (usain bolt) Robbie Williams will be performing a concert there in March during grand prix and then the venue drifts to irrelevance again. As for the area itself youre seriously shortchanging it. Middle park and then bob jane was the home of most npl finals and grand final matches. I'd say thats pretty important. 100% If the FFA, and the FFV were smarter they would have helped protect that asset for the whole game. Now instead we're talking about a stadium in Tarneit - which will be the same size, which is miles away from anything and doesn't currently exist. I miss the old Bob Jane and am sad it's gone - unfortunately the Athletics track was South's only option for long term viability. Also AJF, Albert Park is the cradle of football in Victoria. It's history FAAAAAAR predates South and it's a shame people don't know more about the pre-migration days of football. https://neoskosmos.com/en/121947/how-south-melbournes-football-history-dates-back-to-1883/ The discussion isnt about albert park but rather the over inflated ego and claims of SMFC. Maybe you should edit your comment earlier in the chain then "Albert park was only ever the cradle of South Melbounre and their inflated egos but Vic football heartland has always been in Melbournes West and North." no, thats still valid Whether you like it or not Albert Park has a significant football history before South Melbourne FC, and Australia has a football history before migration. We need to do more to recognise the sport's stories in the early 1900s and late 1800s. Wow, they played football there in the 1880's so that means SMFC can claim it is the cradle of Vic football. What about the other 3 teams that played in the league at the time, do Richmond, Prahran and Carlton also get to claim to be the centre of Vic Soccer? Also first Club was actually called South Melbourne not Albert Park. https://www.vu.edu.au/news-events/media-releases/130-years-of-soccer-or-notAlso interestingly, in 1884 the entire season was played out of Richmond Football club, ( https://www.tigerlandarchive.org/tiki-index.php?page=1884+Chronology) so is Tigerland now the cradle of Victorian football Let me sat this slowly so you understand....... my point isnt about the history of Albert Park but SMFC's wild claims to be the centre of football And my point was that it was a tragedy to lose a purpose built, football facility in a historic central location. Albert park is more than "the cradle of South Melbounre and their inflated egos."
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Melbcityguy
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i hope they get 10k this week just to see everyone's reaction on here
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someguyjc
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+x+x+x+xThe Stadium (Land swap) is only a small part of the whole development although it is a late addition from what I can find. it is a late addition. there was originally supposed to be a gym/leisure centre on the stadium site. Reading reports - The gym/leisure centre and indoor stadium/sports venue are going ahead as well as WUFC stadium Great news! Link? It was in the council meeting minutes. Page 87-88. https://councilpapers.wyndham.vic.gov.au/Open/2020/ORD_04022020_MIN_2601_AT.PDF
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Blew.2
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+xThe Stadium (Land swap) is only a small part of the whole development although it is a late addition from what I can find. it is a late addition. there was originally supposed to be a gym/leisure centre on the stadium site. Reading reports - The gym/leisure centre and indoor stadium/sports venue are going ahead as well as WUFC stadium Great news! Link? It was in the council meeting minutes. Page 87-88. https://councilpapers.wyndham.vic.gov.au/Open/2020/ORD_04022020_MIN_2601_AT.PDF Question 2 Wyndham City Stadium, with 15,000 seats is claimed to be a game-changer to the often-neglected suburb of Tarneit. However, some recent media articles mentioned the planned stadium remains in limbo. I request the council to provide a detailed answer on: a. From the 265 acres land parcel at 1160 Sayers Road, how many acres are offered at no cost to build the stadium? b. Is Wyndham City Council contributing financially (or in-kind) for the stadium? If yes, please provide details of the funding arrangements c. How much is Western Melbourne Group Holdings investing in the stadium? How will the multi-million dollar funding be arranged by the consortium? d. Will there be any commercial and residential development on the land parcel itself? If yes, is Western Melbourne Group Holdings a financial stakeholder in that as well? Please provide detail of arrangements. e. Tarneit Indoor Sports Stadium was proposed in 2017. Is it still happening? Is there any funding previously allocated to build Tarneit Indoor
Sports Stadium being provided by the council to build the Wyndham City Stadium? Question 2 Ms Kelly Grigsby, CEO, advised that contrary to media reports, Council is very committed to this vital project in Wyndham City and is constantly working with the partners involved in the building of the stadium. a. T he site is 63 hectares in size and of the title to approximately 6.5 hectares
of land will be provided at no cost in exchange for the building of Wyndham
City Stadium by the Western Melbourne Group to act as the home of the Western United Football Team. The stadium will also be available for a range of other sporting and cultural events. This will be a significant sport precinct with the stadium being one of those elements. b. It is underpinned by a value capture model and the deal is funded by the Western Melbourne Group. Details of this are not available due to commercial-in-confidence. c. Details of this are not available due to commercial-in-confidence. d. There will be commercial and residential development on the site and the Western Melbourne Group will be the responsible developer. The details, again are commercial-in-confidence. e. The Tarneit Indoor facility as nominated in the Riverdale Precinct Structure
Plan is still happening. A Master Plan is currently underway and will confirm the exact location of the future indoor facility. Early service mix and feasibility investigations are underway to inform the Master Plan. A response will be provided to the resident in writing.
Clear Contact There
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MarkfromCroydon
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To put the progress of the stadium in context. It is similar in process to the recent Victory proposal at Footscray Park.
At some stage soon, a request for formal approval will be lodged with the planning authority. (Likely to be Wyndham City Council).
A public consultation period will happen, similar to the Victory proposal, with the public being able to object.
The Councillors will then make a decision. If they decide to approve, objectors (if any) may wait up to 4 weeks before they lodge an application with VCAT. The major cases list will hear the appeal in about 12 weeks after lodgement, and deliver a judgment about 4 weeks later.
There really is potentially a long time to go before there’s any planning approval for the stadium.
Having said that, there are a couple of unusual ways to speed up the process, but in the current political climate, I don’t think that will happen.
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bettega
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+xTo put the progress of the stadium in context. It is similar in process to the recent Victory proposal at Footscray Park.
At some stage soon, a request for formal approval will be lodged with the planning authority. (Likely to be Wyndham City Council).
A public consultation period will happen, similar to the Victory proposal, with the public being able to object.
The Councillors will then make a decision. If they decide to approve, objectors (if any) may wait up to 4 weeks before they lodge an application with VCAT. The major cases list will hear the appeal in about 12 weeks after lodgement, and deliver a judgment about 4 weeks later.
There really is potentially a long time to go before there’s any planning approval for the stadium.
Having said that, there are a couple of unusual ways to speed up the process, but in the current political climate, I don’t think that will happen. That's good background info. I guess in the current situation, the Council sees themselves as a "partner", so that must count for something.
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Melbcityguy
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since they have such a small fan base they should try to build a small 10k stadium like melbourne city fans want them to do
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Mustang67
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+xsince they have such a small fan base they should try to build a small 10k stadium like melbourne city fans want them to do Maybe then they could rent it out to Melbourne city and a least then MC could half fill the stadium
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Melbcityguy
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+x+xsince they have such a small fan base they should try to build a small 10k stadium like melbourne city fans want them to do Maybe then they could rent it out to Melbourne city and a least then MC could half fill the stadium you could remove melbourne city and say the same joke about most clubs!
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Waz
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+x+xTo put the progress of the stadium in context. It is similar in process to the recent Victory proposal at Footscray Park.
At some stage soon, a request for formal approval will be lodged with the planning authority. (Likely to be Wyndham City Council).
A public consultation period will happen, similar to the Victory proposal, with the public being able to object.
The Councillors will then make a decision. If they decide to approve, objectors (if any) may wait up to 4 weeks before they lodge an application with VCAT. The major cases list will hear the appeal in about 12 weeks after lodgement, and deliver a judgment about 4 weeks later.
There really is potentially a long time to go before there’s any planning approval for the stadium.
Having said that, there are a couple of unusual ways to speed up the process, but in the current political climate, I don’t think that will happen. That's good background info. I guess in the current situation, the Council sees themselves as a "partner", so that must count for something. I’m not sure there’s any similarities to Footscray Park though.
There Victory tried to take over public space for private use which to all intents and purposes would have rezoned the land.
WU are not planning on building on a public space, they will be building within a section of land that has been zoned for industrial and commercial development including railway station, light industrial, commercial .... and a sports stadium. Classic urban development planning.
The ability of objectors to pull off the rear guard action seen at Footscray is limited, unless they can find a rare and protected species of flower or cane toad sanctuary or something ...
The Council said yesterday it would be ready on time as planned. A reasonable independent statement but caveated with the possibility of all the usual delays.
The only question now is will the planned capacity be too big - they don’t seem to have attracted many fans and playing the ugliest brand of football I think the A League has ever seen I don’t see how they will.
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Blew.2
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https://twitter.com/SocStoppageTime/status/1229337963391115264?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Stealth has confirmed that <a href=" https://twitter.com/wufcofficial?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@wufcofficial</a> head coach Mark Rudan has lost the dressing room.<br><br>Chapman, Mcdonald , Gulum all left because of Rudan<br><br>Confirms that superstar Diamanté has made it clear to the board how he feels about Rudan’s inability to properly manage the team</p>— Soccer Stoppage Time (@SocStoppageTime) <a href=" https://twitter.com/SocStoppageTime/status/1229337963391115264?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 17, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src=" https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Clear Contact There
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ErogenousZone
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Western United were actually playing some good football there for a while & doing quite well.
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CHEP
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From the Michael Lynch article yesterday: “In their original winning bid Western said they would have the $150 million venue up and running for their third season in the league, due to kick off in the spring of 2021. Roffey says that while the stadium might be built by then it may be until later in the season that the new club could look to take occupancy.”
Having followed the rebuild of Parramatta stadium obsessively, there is not a chance it would be ready by then even if it is smaller than BankWest and under a different title. They would literally have to start today to have any chance of it being completed by that timeframe. Factoring in planning submissions and all other red tape processes, they may be lucky to have it done by the start of the 2022/23 season.
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90 Minutes
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+x+x+xTo put the progress of the stadium in context. It is similar in process to the recent Victory proposal at Footscray Park.
At some stage soon, a request for formal approval will be lodged with the planning authority. (Likely to be Wyndham City Council).
A public consultation period will happen, similar to the Victory proposal, with the public being able to object.
The Councillors will then make a decision. If they decide to approve, objectors (if any) may wait up to 4 weeks before they lodge an application with VCAT. The major cases list will hear the appeal in about 12 weeks after lodgement, and deliver a judgment about 4 weeks later.
There really is potentially a long time to go before there’s any planning approval for the stadium.
Having said that, there are a couple of unusual ways to speed up the process, but in the current political climate, I don’t think that will happen. That's good background info. I guess in the current situation, the Council sees themselves as a "partner", so that must count for something. I’m not sure there’s any similarities to Footscray Park though.
There Victory tried to take over public space for private use which to all intents and purposes would have rezoned the land.
WU are not planning on building on a public space, they will be building within a section of land that has been zoned for industrial and commercial development including railway station, light industrial, commercial .... and a sports stadium. Classic urban development planning.
The ability of objectors to pull off the rear guard action seen at Footscray is limited, unless they can find a rare and protected species of flower or cane toad sanctuary or something ...
The Council said yesterday it would be ready on time as planned. A reasonable independent statement but caveated with the possibility of all the usual delays.
The only question now is will the planned capacity be too big - they don’t seem to have attracted many fans and playing the ugliest brand of football I think the A League has ever seen I don’t see how they will. Hi Is that the same Waz on Roar page?
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Feed_The_Brox
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Group: Forum Members
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+xTo put the progress of the stadium in context. It is similar in process to the recent Victory proposal at Footscray Park.
At some stage soon, a request for formal approval will be lodged with the planning authority. (Likely to be Wyndham City Council).
A public consultation period will happen, similar to the Victory proposal, with the public being able to object.
The Councillors will then make a decision. If they decide to approve, objectors (if any) may wait up to 4 weeks before they lodge an application with VCAT. The major cases list will hear the appeal in about 12 weeks after lodgement, and deliver a judgment about 4 weeks later.
There really is potentially a long time to go before there’s any planning approval for the stadium.
Having said that, there are a couple of unusual ways to speed up the process, but in the current political climate, I don’t think that will happen. its nothing like the Victory COE. WU have the council on board (they are major stakeholders). Victory thought they had the council on board. Plus i can't imagine there would be any nimby's in an area with no housing as well as people hostile to football in more of a multicultural area. Plus they would welcome it if it meant the train station came earlier. But i do agree that it won’t be as quick as they’re suggesting
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someguyjc
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.9K,
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+x+x+xTo put the progress of the stadium in context. It is similar in process to the recent Victory proposal at Footscray Park.
At some stage soon, a request for formal approval will be lodged with the planning authority. (Likely to be Wyndham City Council).
A public consultation period will happen, similar to the Victory proposal, with the public being able to object.
The Councillors will then make a decision. If they decide to approve, objectors (if any) may wait up to 4 weeks before they lodge an application with VCAT. The major cases list will hear the appeal in about 12 weeks after lodgement, and deliver a judgment about 4 weeks later.
There really is potentially a long time to go before there’s any planning approval for the stadium.
Having said that, there are a couple of unusual ways to speed up the process, but in the current political climate, I don’t think that will happen. That's good background info. I guess in the current situation, the Council sees themselves as a "partner", so that must count for something. The only question now is will the planned capacity be too big - they don’t seem to have attracted many fans and playing the ugliest brand of football I think the A League has ever seen I don’t see how they will. Hard to attract fans when they don't have a home yet. A completed stadium changes that. I know a number of people that are interested in becoming members of the club, but at the moment it's a bit 'let's wait and see'. People in Melbourne haven't forgotten about Heart. It's a big ask for people to jump on board from the beginning while there are so many unknowns. Once there is some visible progress with construction, interest will start growing. The challenge then is to field a competitive team. At the very least, they need to be playing finals football for the next few years to keep the hope alive. If they manage to actually win a trophy, it will do wonders. One of the big reasons MC has never taken off with the fans is because they haven't been premiers or champions yet. For any club (of any code) to be successful in Melbourne they need to demonstrate that they can be champions. That's the expectation.
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thekingmb
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Will be awesome in 5 years time when the stadium is built and they are averaging 10k!!!
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Feed_The_Brox
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if they are talking about a quick stadium build, I wonder if they are cutting costs and will build a smaller stadium? I hope not because they need room for future growth, but it would explain the shorter build timeframe.
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Bocca
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+xWill be awesome in 5 years time when the stadium is built and they are averaging 10k!!! As I Victory fan based out West, I can't wait for a derby there. It's going to be amazing!
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someguyjc
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+x+xWill be awesome in 5 years time when the stadium is built and they are averaging 10k!!! As I Victory fan based out West, I can't wait for a derby there. It's going to be amazing! It will be interesting to see if they actually play any home games there against MV. 15k is pretty small, especially if the WU fanbase has grown alot by the time the stadium is built. I wouldn't be surprised if they moved the derbies to Kardinia.
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Bocca
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+x+x+xWill be awesome in 5 years time when the stadium is built and they are averaging 10k!!! As I Victory fan based out West, I can't wait for a derby there. It's going to be amazing! It will be interesting to see if they actually play any home games there against MV. 15k is pretty small, especially if the WU fanbase has grown alot by the time the stadium is built. I wouldn't be surprised if they moved the derbies to Kardinia. Not a chance IMHO. You done spend 170million on stadium to play big games elsewhere
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ErogenousZone
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+xWill be awesome in 5 years time when the stadium is built and they are averaging 10k!!! If they last 5 years I'll buy you two cases of beer.
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Feed_The_Brox
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+xIt will be interesting to see if they actually play any home games there against MV. 15k is pretty small, especially if the WU fanbase has grown alot by the time the stadium is built. I wouldn't be surprised if they moved the derbies to Kardinia. they won't be. But they claim they will be putting structures in place to increase the capacity if they grow over time.
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433
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I don't understand why it costs $170 million to build a 15k seater anyways. What is the obsession with having these gold-plated stadiums that try and win architectural awards? There are shitloads of smaller stadiums out there that have been built for much cheaper that would more than suit our league. For example, the NV Arena ( https://www.stadiumguide.com/nv-arena/) (where Australia played Czech Republic) was a beautiful little ground that cost $30m AUD to complete.
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SlashThingy
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Why does everybody take it as a given that if they build the stadium, they'll suddenly become popular? Seems more likely to me that they build it, and then they go "Oh crap, nobody's turning up still. We paid $150m for 3,000 fans."
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someguyjc
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+xWhy does everybody take it as a given that if they build the stadium, they'll suddenly become popular? Seems more likely to me that they build it, and then they go "Oh crap, nobody's turning up still. We paid $150m for 3,000 fans." If they are a top 6 club, they will grow the fan base easily, especially with a boutique stadium. If they end up being perpetual cellar dwellers, it could be a bit of a disaster. Getting 10-15k in Melbourne is not a big ask.
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MarkfromCroydon
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+xI don't understand why it costs $170 million to build a 15k seater anyways. What is the obsession with having these gold-plated stadiums that try and win architectural awards? There are shitloads of smaller stadiums out there that have been built for much cheaper that would more than suit our league. For example, the NV Arena ( https://www.stadiumguide.com/nv-arena/) (where Australia played Czech Republic) was a beautiful little ground that cost $30m AUD to complete. For $30 million in Melbourne, you'll get a public toilet. Overseas construction costs are so much lower than here. We have only a limited number of commercial builders who will/are capable to do this work, and they have a high profit margin. It's not like stadia get built everyday. In Europe and USA, they have many more companies, many more projects and hence more competition and lower prices and profit margins. One funny thing, we have really good seating companies here who export stadium seating to Europe.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
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+xI don't understand why it costs $170 million to build a 15k seater anyways. What is the obsession with having these gold-plated stadiums that try and win architectural awards? There are shitloads of smaller stadiums out there that have been built for much cheaper that would more than suit our league. For example, the NV Arena ( https://www.stadiumguide.com/nv-arena/) (where Australia played Czech Republic) was a beautiful little ground that cost $30m AUD to complete. Because in Australia a guy pouring concrete gets paid more than a doctor.
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