Australia/NZ Test Series.


Australia/NZ Test Series.

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Paddles - 8 Dec 2019 12:13 PM
flyslip - 8 Dec 2019 12:01 PM

"Rubbish. All your pitches bar Hobart are roads. They're not slow, they're one paced and fast, they're roads. "


 And the MCG was certainly slower last year when India was there. That was certainly a bowler's test match where the bowlers dominated.
"India could barely score on it with a run rate of 2.6 before declaring at 443 (thats a fairly low first innings declaration score for a road). And no further innings in that match looked likely to threaten 300
"But you admit in the India game it was difficult for scoring, that is not a road then is it? So what exactly is your point about the MCG?"



Your claims above Paddles.

You seem to have been arguing with yourself as much as anyone else. Quite amazing that someone could simultaneously hold two completely contradictory views and argue both in the one thread. lol.

The idea that it was a "seamers" pitch could only originate from too much time on statsguru. No one who watched it is likely to believe that. In fact the almost universal criticism (from people who did actually watch it) was that it was slow and benign.

The same as it was when the poms were here. The same as it was in first class cricket. 
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10 Months Ago by flyslip
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flyslip - 8 Dec 2019 12:53 PM
Paddles - 8 Dec 2019 12:13 PM

Your claims above Paddles.

You seem to have been arguing with yourself as much as anyone else. Quite amazing that someone could simultaneously hold two completely contradictory views and argue both in the one thread. lol.



 Yes - the MCG was an exception last year. Wickets tumbled, scoring was tough, it was no road last year.

What is your point? That I recognise the exceptions? Yes, I do.

I don't even know why you're so offended if you are - NZ"s premier test venue, the Basin Reserve is repeatedly one of the most roady mcroad that ever roaded - especially the past 6 years. And England are still crying over the roads we served upto them int he 2 tests this summer. That wasn't at the Basin. Last time India was here, we gave them roads, BMAC got a double one test and a tripple the next! This time I'd give them greenies. They have a swing bowling cartel now that is faster than ours. But you can bet, there won't be any spin on offer, even on day 5.

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10 Months Ago by Paddles
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Paddles - 8 Dec 2019 1:00 PM
flyslip - 8 Dec 2019 12:53 PM

 Yes - the MCG was an exception last year. Wickets tumbled, scoring was tough, it was no road last year.

What is your point? That I recognise the exceptions? Yes, I do.

I don't even know why you're so offended if you are - NZ"s premier test venue, the Basin Reserve is repeatedly one of the most roady mcroad that ever roaded - especially the past 6 years. And England are still crying over the roads we served upto them int he 2 tests this summer. That wasn't at the Basin. Last time India was here, we gave them roads, BMAC got a double one test and a tripple the next! This time I'd give them greenies. They have a swing bowling cartel now that is faster than ours. But you can bet, there won't be any spin on offer, even on day 5.

Could be plenty of seam on offer at the MCG if the recent shield match is anything to go by. They were directed by CA to at least try to do something about the pitch, as it has has obviously had its day. Looks like they might be trying out one the other wickets they had growing. While it wouldn't be good if it were the same as the recent wicket, the hope is that it will offer something. If it at least deteriorates over the match, that would be something.
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I seem to remember the last series in Australia was close, with one key decision in Adelaide going Aus's way. It was decisive in the context of the series.
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What about the arrogancy of the MCG hierarchy .Hello there up in your ivory tower.. you may think you own the Boxing Day Test but produce another crappy deck and your days are numbered. Perth Stadium is coming for you. Personally I'd love for Bellerive Oval to get it. TCA will have to double its crowd amenities tho.  Got a chuckle from Crash Craddock's article this morning on this very subject. 
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10 Months Ago by baggygreenmania
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DC what is the reasoning behind TCA giving Mac Wright the vital and difficult First Drop spot. He is a novice and it shud be a seasoned batsman's job.
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Decentric - 8 Dec 2019 11:20 PM
I seem to remember the last series in Australia was close, with one key decision in Adelaide going Aus's way. It was decisive in the context of the series.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/scores/series/11249/new-zealand-tour-of-australia
Yes DC that Adelaide game was the first ever day/niter from memory.. bit of a nailbiter.
Those pesky Kiwis are never really beaten until the last ball.
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10 Months Ago by baggygreenmania
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Decentric - 8 Dec 2019 11:20 PM
I seem to remember the last series in Australia was close, with one key decision in Adelaide going Aus's way. It was decisive in the context of the series.

Yeah - but we were smashed at the Gabba with our bowlers looking lame. KW announced himself to Aussie fans, though. 

We pretty have much have the same bowling attack as last time, Wagner was just a reserve last time, and only Ferg - yet to debut - is a new addition to the entire bowling squad from the 2015 series.

Wagner will try his thing. But if it doesn't come off, I think our bowlers are going to struggle. They just don't have the height or pace that succeeds the best typically in Australian conditions.

Ferg can get over 150km/h - but that's odi at 10 overs with his last spell often slower.



Edited
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Paddles - 9 Dec 2019 11:20 AM
Decentric - 8 Dec 2019 11:20 PM

Yeah - but we were smashed at the Gabba with our bowlers looking lame. KW announced himself to Aussie fans, though. 

We pretty have much have the same bowling attack as last time, Wagner was just a reserve last time, and only Ferg - yet to debut - is a new addition to the entire bowling squad from the 2015 series.

Wagner will try his thing. But if it doesn't come off, I think our bowlers are going to struggle. They just don't have the height or pace that succeeds the best typically in Australian conditions.

Ferg can get over 150km/h - but that's odi at 10 overs with his last spell often slower.



In the TCA members, Aussie fans are very confident in the outcome - that Australia will prevail.

However, most don't seem to realise that the Kiwis are ranked number 2 in the world, and have played better overseas than Australia in the last few years.

Justin Langer has recently waxed lyrical about how good the Kiwis currently are though.
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baggygreenmania - 9 Dec 2019 10:21 AM
DC what is the reasoning behind TCA giving Mac Wright the vital and difficult First Drop spot. He is a novice and it shud be a seasoned batsman's job.

Good question?

This should  probably be discussed in the domestic season thread though.
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10 Months Ago by Decentric
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Decentric - 10 Dec 2019 9:08 AM
Paddles - 9 Dec 2019 11:20 AM

In the TCA members, Aussie fans are very confident in the outcome - that Australia will prevail.

However, most don't seem to realise that the Kiwis are ranked number 2 in the world, and have played better overseas than Australia in the last few years.

Justin Langer has recently waxed lyrical about how good the Kiwis currently are though.

We'd smash Australia in England or Asia imo. We're just much better in those conditions. But we're not playing there. We're playing Australia in Australia. Where NZ bowlers are terrible. Where English bowlers are terrible. Where all Asian attacks bar India are terrible. Simply terrible. Our batsman will fight to give us 650/700 runs in the game, but the bowlers will give your batsmen more is my fear.

We just dont have the skill and pace of Rabada, Steyn, Morkel, Abbott, Bumrah, Shami with their  swing, seam and plus 140 all day pace. You want to win in Australia, you need to bring pace. We don't have the pace. Boult and Wagner are short, so we don't have height/bounce either, - Southee isn't exactly tall for a fast bowler at 6'3". It all comes to Wagner for me - seeing we will stupidly play a spinner who will suck and be useless instead of Ferg - who has pace but never faced 40 degree all day heat for more than 10 overs in a day where he slowed down later anyway. Can Wagner pull something out in his bag of bouncer tricks.
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Paddles - 10 Dec 2019 11:43 AM
Decentric - 10 Dec 2019 9:08 AM

We'd smash Australia in England or Asia imo. We're just much better in those conditions. But we're not playing there. We're playing Australia in Australia. Where NZ bowlers are terrible. Where English bowlers are terrible. Where all Asian attacks bar India are terrible. Simply terrible. Our batsman will fight to give us 650/700 runs in the game, but the bowlers will give your batsmen more is my fear.

We just dont have the skill and pace of Rabada, Steyn, Morkel, Abbott, Bumrah, Shami with their  swing, seam and plus 140 all day pace. You want to win in Australia, you need to bring pace. We don't have the pace. Boult and Wagner are short, so we don't have height/bounce either, - Southee isn't exactly tall for a fast bowler at 6'3". It all comes to Wagner for me - seeing we will stupidly play a spinner who will suck and be useless instead of Ferg - who has pace but never faced 40 degree all day heat for more than 10 overs in a day where he slowed down later anyway. Can Wagner pull something out in his bag of bouncer tricks.

Pitch cracks open and anything might happen.
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it will have grass to hold it together, imo...

Maybe Im wrong, on day 5.... hope we bat first then...
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Will  the MCG be a minefield, or a flat wicket?
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I think the Kiwis will come back hard in Melbourne.

They are not ranked number 2 for nothing.
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Decentric - 16 Dec 2019 8:53 AM
Will  the MCG be a minefield, or a flat wicket?

That is the $64K question DC. If the latter I can see the Black Caps getting back into the series. They have more time bats than we do. I can, however, see CA keeping the foot on the throat and preparing a lively deck for our faster quicks to exploit.

Does Travis Head get another chance. Do we play Mike Neser as a late order bowling all rounder. Will Pattinson or Siddle get the nod for Hazlewood's spot?
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10 Months Ago by baggygreenmania
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baggygreenmania - 16 Dec 2019 10:34 AM
Decentric - 16 Dec 2019 8:53 AM

That is the $64K question DC. If the latter I can see the Black Caps getting back into the series. They have more time bats than we do. I can, however, see CA keeping the foot on the throat and preparing a lively deck for our faster quicks to exploit.

Does Travis Head get another chance. Do we play Mike Neser as a late order bowling all rounder. Will Pattinson or Siddle get the nod for Hazlewood's spot?

I think NZ are gunna feel exhausted, pissed off and demoralised. But they are tough - if anyone can rally, they can. Ferguson confirmed ruled out for remainder.
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ThingyBob - 16 Dec 2019 6:57 PM
baggygreenmania - 16 Dec 2019 10:34 AM

I think NZ are gunna feel exhausted, pissed off and demoralised. But they are tough - if anyone can rally, they can. Ferguson confirmed ruled out for remainder.

Nah - NZ lost the toss, 47 degree centre field heat and its an away series, I mean Aus has one won one in the last 4 years, or was 2015/16 their last away win? I checked, it was 2015/16...

Only India, England, SA, NZ and SL know how to win away since then it seems :)  Aus has never won away with Trump as president of the USA.

We're not demoralised. We're just not buying the Aus great story until they stop losing to INdia and SA at home, and actually win something away, even Bangladesh... Even Bangladesh...  :)


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baggygreenmania - 9 Dec 2019 10:04 AM
What about the arrogancy of the MCG hierarchy .Hello there up in your ivory tower.. you may think you own the Boxing Day Test but produce another crappy deck and your days are numbered. Perth Stadium is coming for you. Personally I'd love for Bellerive Oval to get it. TCA will have to double its crowd amenities tho.  Got a chuckle from Crash Craddock's article this morning on this very subject. 

Would be great to have Boxing day matches at Bellerive. The MCG was never a great wicket even before it was a drop in, but in recent times it simply isn't good enough. It's not a very aesthetically pleasing stadium, certainly no charm about it. The only thing that's saving it so far is the amount of people it holds ($$$), surely. Will be interesting to see what they dish up on Boxing day.
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bloody hell. This site sometimes. I posted and twice it has vanished.
I wrote lets not worry about overseas games this is the present and Australia is at home.. her fortress. Your blokes certainly are demoralised. Bullshit to say otherwise. I only have to read the Perth post mortem posts of your fellow Kiwis to know that. I know how passionate your countrymen are.. as passionate as us Aussies and to lose is like a knife to the gut. 



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baggygreenmania - 17 Dec 2019 10:02 AM
bloody hell. This site sometimes. I posted and twice it has vanished.
I wrote lets not worry about overseas games this is the present and Australia is at home.. her fortress. Your blokes certainly are demoralised. Bullshit to say otherwise. I only have to read the Perth post mortem posts of your fellow Kiwis to know that. I know how passionate your countrymen are.. as passionate as us Aussies and to lose is like a knife to the gut. 



Shane Warne says the Black Caps started the Bodyline like assault in Perth and that Australia need to finish in on Boxing Day. The Shiek of Tweak wants CA to unleash James Pattinson on NZ on a pitch he knows like his own backyard..and Warne has an ally in former England captain and commentator Michael Vaughan. 

Does Warne know something that we peasants dont.. perhaps the G curator has been ordered to produce a spicey deck if able to on the outdated drop in. 
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flyslip - 17 Dec 2019 9:51 AM
baggygreenmania - 9 Dec 2019 10:04 AM

Would be great to have Boxing day matches at Bellerive. The MCG was never a great wicket even before it was a drop in, but in recent times it simply isn't good enough. It's not a very aesthetically pleasing stadium, certainly no charm about it. The only thing that's saving it so far is the amount of people it holds , surely. Will be interesting to see what they dish up on Boxing day.

($$$) You hit nail on the head. CA relies on the G being all but full on Boxing Day to boost its bulging treasury. Agree the stadium has no charm.. it is frankly..quite ugly.. but it holds 90K screaming fans that lift the Baggy Greens everytime they play there.
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10 Months Ago by baggygreenmania
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Paddles - 16 Dec 2019 7:05 PM
ThingyBob - 16 Dec 2019 6:57 PM

Nah - NZ lost the toss, 47 degree centre field heat and its an away series, 


:laugh:

= my shoe laces were too tight, wasn't feeling well, had an off day, my cat was having kittens.

Perhaps we can just give them the toss, and then not start the match until the poor dears are sure the weather will have them feeling comfortable?

The Kiwis have won one single match against Aus this century out of 23 played (a close win by about 6 runs).The tally is 17-1 against.

Considering that and as we're told having one of the world's great attacks and rightly should be favourites, I thought they might have had some incentive to make it 16-2. But it seems they folded against (supposedly) one of world crickets most rubbish attacks (or so it goes).

All nonsense aside, thought a lively pitch might have helped them (until I looked up the amount of draws they play in NZ). So perhaps a slow MCG pitch will help, will see what happens on boxing day. At least it has been better cricket than the previous series against Pakistan.
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flyslip - 17 Dec 2019 10:17 AM
Paddles - 16 Dec 2019 7:05 PM

:laugh:

= my shoe laces were too tight, wasn't feeling well, had an off day, my cat was having kittens.

Perhaps we can just give them the toss, and then not start the match until the poor dears are sure the weather will have them feeling comfortable?

The Kiwis have won one single match against Aus this century out of 23 played (a close win by about 6 runs).The tally is 17-1 against.

Considering that and as we're told having one of the world's great attacks and rightly should be favourites, I thought they might have had some incentive to make it 16-2. But it seems they folded against (supposedly) one of world crickets most rubbish attacks (or so it goes).

All nonsense aside, thought a lively pitch might have helped them (until I looked up the amount of draws they play in NZ). So perhaps a slow MCG pitch will help, will see what happens on boxing day. At least it has been better cricket than the previous series against Pakistan.

I just gave you a LIKE for that post Flyslip.
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baggygreenmania - 17 Dec 2019 10:02 AM
bloody hell. This site sometimes. I posted and twice it has vanished.
I wrote lets not worry about overseas games this is the present and Australia is at home.. her fortress. Your blokes certainly are demoralised. Bullshit to say otherwise. I only have to read the Perth post mortem posts of your fellow Kiwis to know that. I know how passionate your countrymen are.. as passionate as us Aussies and to lose is like a knife to the gut. 



Cricket over here isn't that much of a big deal. You're on the main Kiwi cricket forum and you see how few users there are. And this team bounced back from the WC final in SL and vs England - that was the worst thing that has happened to NZC history - ever - really. I certainly don't think they get demoralised from thrashings. India especially has served them up to this group away. It's just business as usual.

Now Raval may be completely demoralised. And he should be. Cos he can see his internatrional cricket career falling apart in front of him. But this is not just Australia, its almost everyone for 2 years now, home and away. Santner is too laconic to ever care about anything. And the rest of the team seem pretty happy with their year's performances. So demoralised? I doubt it. Southee and Wagner had big grins at the end of the game. 

Tbe biggest news over here is the appointment of the new All Black coach. 
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Paddles - 17 Dec 2019 12:47 PM
baggygreenmania - 17 Dec 2019 10:02 AM

Cricket over here isn't that much of a big deal. You're on the main Kiwi cricket forum and you see how few users there are. And this team bounced back from the WC final in SL and vs England - that was the worst thing that has happened to NZC history - ever - really. I certainly don't think they get demoralised from thrashings. India especially has served them up to this group away. It's just business as usual.

Now Raval may be completely demoralised. And he should be. Cos he can see his internatrional cricket career falling apart in front of him. But this is not just Australia, its almost everyone for 2 years now, home and away. Santner is too laconic to ever care about anything. And the rest of the team seem pretty happy with their year's performances. So demoralised? I doubt it. Southee and Wagner had big grins at the end of the game. 

Tbe biggest news over here is the appointment of the new All Black coach. 

Yeh and like you the few posters were hurting.. tell me otherwise. I reckon it may hurt even more when big cousin wallops you.. sort of like Oz feels when the Pommies hammer us.. tho I have never regarded them as almost family. The biggest thrill that I get from beating England is knowing that we were victorious against the nation that invented the sport. Imagine how my forefathers that defeated England for the first time back in 1887 to create the Ashes felt. 
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10 Months Ago by baggygreenmania
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baggygreenmania - 17 Dec 2019 1:25 PM
Paddles - 17 Dec 2019 12:47 PM

Yeh and like you the few posters were hurting.. tell me otherwise. I reckon it may hurt even more when big cousin wallops you.. sort of like Oz feels when the Pommies hammer us.. tho I have never regarded them as almost family. The biggest thrill that I get from beating England is knowing that we were victorious against the nation that invented the sport. Imagine how my forefathers that won back in 1887 to create the Ashes felt. 

I am also a Biritsh citizen, so I don't quite feel the same way as you do at all to be honest. And I certainly consider NZ to be the child of England in every manner, shape and form. I am glad we kept the union jack on our flag. 

It typically all irks the same when we lose fairly - regardless opposition or margin, it all feels the same when we win for me fairly. Losing to Safrica at home due to rain was far more frustrating and hurt more than when Aus steam rolled us over here. That Lyon edge, hated that at Adelaide, third umpires should be able to do their job. While England Australia are bigger drawcards for NZC fans, and of course India and their migrated fans, the big 3 are just the Big 3. I prefer our series win in UAE vs Pakistan to either of our last series wins over England or our home series win over India.

I love it when we win the Chapell Hadlee - but its just like any other series vs India, Pakistan, England, SA, SL etc... I love my team and enjoy seeing them do well.  As a NZC fan, this is not the normal situation. 
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10 Months Ago by Paddles
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Against the three dominant teams so far this century (Aus, Saffers, India), so far the Kiwis have managed to win one single solitary match away out of 35 attempts lol and that was a very close and evenly fought match itself (and a very entertaining one).

It does appear they are far too good for Zimbabwe away though.

The idea that they are now some "away powerhouses" is far fetched, but if so this is their chance to demonstrate it. They only have to take the next two matches. Most Aussies would be happy for the kiwis to do well, they are a good team. It's the unrealistic crowing from some of their supporters that would rankle.



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Paddles - 4 Dec 2019 12:32 PM
Don't like NZ's chances here. 

Raval is terribly out of form and Will Young, who made all those runs vs Aus in your WC warm ups, (2 centuries back to back and a 61 in 3 innings) is still injured. Poor guy missed his test debut before that due to the Chch shooting. 

So we're  a wicket down before we begin.

Then - despite Sommerville and Patel spinning us to test wins in SL and UAE vs Pak, neither are on tour, but two spinners who didn't play those games, or one who was dropped, are on the tour. Confusing?

Well then more confusing is that NZ's start bowler of the CWC, with the ability to bowl 150km/h heat, is still ranked below Boult, Wagner - okay - Southee - grizzle - Matt Henry? Seriously? 

Even with smarter selections and Young fit, I am quite worried about our bowlers letting Aus score 500+ too often with Warner, Smith, Labu all firing. Boult and Southee were smashed everywhere bar Adelaide under lights last time. Wagner can do his leg theory stuff and that was sorely missed last time, so hopefully there is that, but I just see too many huge Australian scores comming up. 

I don't even know why we're taking spinners over for anywhere but SCG. And it should have been Sommerville.

Really like my opening post in this thread. Really also like the one where I said our problem would be letting Aus score 400/500 and 600 to oftenm but I won't quote that seeing it was in reply to someone I will not engage with anymore.

But I am interested how the Australians will now adapt to Wagner and the short bowling they collapsed to in Perth. And I would love to know what NZ has in plan for Labu, cos he is just scoring like the Don right now.
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10 Months Ago by Paddles
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baggygreenmania - 16 Dec 2019 10:34 AM
Decentric - 16 Dec 2019 8:53 AM
 Will Pattinson or Siddle get the nod for Hazlewood's spot?

I don't think Siddle should get it, but Langer has suggested he is in the running  for it. 

Victoria have selected all of Pattinson, Tremain and Boland in front of Siddle. At Bellerive in recent Shield games Siddle has has bowled tightly, but not with great penetration.

I think Bird has taken most Shield wickets this season, but Pattinson and Neser have been in Test squads unavailable for a few games.

I think I would like to see Pattinson selected, with Neser going in at number 7 and Paine 6. Pattinson, Starc and Cummins are three quite strong batters who can fortify all of 8, 9 and 10, given Paine and newer are probably weak 6 and 7 batters.  
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10 Months Ago by Decentric
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