Correct.
Not to mention, whatever they were using as a "ball", would have been so  misshapen, you could not even call it round or oval.
When people discuss these things, they need to look at it through the lens of 1850 rather than 2020.

Would also like to add-
there is a fundamental design problem with AL (whether pro rel or not). 

The GF winner is Champion and the biggest winner of the season. 

We we have a top 6 with 11 teams. Atm 9 teams can make the finals so deep in the season and be Champions. Most season with 10 teams 9 teams still had a chance to make top 6 late in the season.

This means managers don’t want to risk anything. Now with 5 subs more youth will get game time but traditionally it hasn’t been so. 

Premiers isn’t much in Australia. Up until this season clubs play unequal amounts home and away against teams. Now it’s even worse that clubs don’t play each other am equal amount of times. It’s always going to be illegitimate until the season is a true home and away.

There is a lot of information in the document.

Plenty of problems  have been identified with the current paradigm, but there is a lot of work to be done to resolve them.

It was interesting to note that the most successful international teams had players aged between 17 and 23 playing plenty of senior football. 

In bold, TBH thats the "normal" most leagues in the world for yonks yet NOT here in AL.
We all know the GG and those before at that age group any player showing their worth late teens would be given a shot in 1st grade.
AL they are bench warmers more than given a go till very late in the game if at all.

Good day, LFC.

I'm nowhere near as enamoured with the GG as most.

I don't want to rehash old discussions, but when I revisit old videos of the Socceroos with the GG playing, using football specific performance criteria, they weren't that effective as a collective unit - when it really counted. The notable exception was the 2006 WC, but four years later I think they were probably a much better battle hardened team unit in SA in the  2010 WC after a sustained WC qualification campaign, if, this is also termed the GG. 

Before 2006, when I look at the old videos, Dukes and Kewell stand out before 2006, then add Neill, Grella and Bresc in 2006.  However, the Socceroo teams in that epoch made a lot of mistakes and played naive football, despite who the individuals  ostensibly  played with at club level.

Once again, as previously stated by many, we need more clubs and more professional footballers in Aus to  provide more  opportunities to play more senior pro football meaning full games of 90 min at the critical ages 17-23.

hey mate, I agree with your pov re old discussions and on the GG's early days.
Being more specific what I'm saying, yes they lacked in many areas BUT they at least got SNR football experience at young age's, some pre 20's.
Learning or getting used playing with the big boys/Snrs gets you used being in that level, may not be great with the ball but to get familiar with the faster pace, pressure on the ball < hence the early errors.
A good player gets used to their surroundings - some quicker that others depending on abilty And from who's coaching them.
Your last sentence is spot on.

https://www.ffa.com.au/xi-principles/principle-iii-survey

Principle iii survey is up for anyone interested

One FFA review showed that because so many young players aged 17-23 managed to get senior game time in the NSL at those critical ages, it had major benefits for their career long term.

Of  course many failed to progress after initially showing precocious promise in senior football, but at least a few kicked on.

Not enough young players  have managed to get sufficient game time in the HAL, to counteract those who don't kick on.

The last sentence is just what FFA research has shown to be true. Ange P was constantly raising this issue.

I'll get more interested when JJ actually has a plan and not a wish list.
Also he just didnt answer the question about WSW youth getting into the NPL1.ahead of the NJ and CCM youth teams.He just said it was good because they had many National youth players.Nothing about fairness or promotion of NJ's or CCM youth teams based on merit.
I guess thats the A-League system too.
Not a good sign for the future.

The 11 principles are a massive pile of nothing. No timetable means no reality. It's entirely a political message. I asked Bozza how long do we give JJ before we revolt, Bozza didn't understand the question so I clarified it. Well I think we can see when the writing is on the wall. No NSD on the way, no plans for taking control of the sport, no timetable for the integration of the pyramid, not date for when the domestic transfer system begins, nothing but hot air.

A con man part of a do nothng entity.

Not sure if JJ is a conman but he definitely is part of a do nothing organisation.

Cause and effect?
More minutes equals good footballers?
Good Footballers get more minutes?
Don't know but need to treat these kind of stats with caution

Lots of Motherhood stuff too.

The more I think about it, the more I despair about 15 wasted years. There have been a few times over this time when I felt our game could be massive.
1. 2005 - A-League starts and we qualify for our first WC in 32 years (the country is suddenly talking about football)
2. 2006 - We moved to the AFC (more games, and a chance to play more regularly against better teams)
3. 2012 - Wanderers join the A-League (their fans are a fantastic addition to the atmosphere at games)
4. 2012 - Del Piero, Ono and Heskey are lured to our league (a season of great interest)
These are the only things that I can recall being done by administrators in the last 15 years that have had a real positive effect on the game's place in this country.  Can't really find a positive since 2012 ... says it all really. 
Maybe I've missed something?

I thought it was going to be massive after 1974. Still haven't got there.

Yep ... that was an amazing time ..

Maybe you've highlighted the issue.
Three or four big events in first  7 years, nothing in the next 8 years, but realistically, can you really sustain a chain of big events to keep things chugging along?

That's a bit of a skewed perspective. In 2003 the game was dead. The national league was shut down after being on life support for a number of years, we hadn't qualified for a World Cup in three decades, and the game's administrators were a bunch of thuggish kleptocrats (need we recall the Labbozzetta years?). So the fact that the A-League was even able to be established and stick around for 15 years with a reasonable level of stability (7 of 8 foundation clubs are still there), should in and of itself be considered a victory.

Then there was the low-point of around 2010, with the demise of North Queensland and the Gold Coast, and crowds way down. But 2012 (thanks to Wanderers and Del Piero) lifted things up again. We're now at another low point and need a lift-up, which will hopefully come through the switch to winter (as risky as this is) and the progressive integration of the football pyramid (starting with a second division), not to mention the WWC in 2023.

“...A-League players are on a collision course with club bosses amid fears they face drastic pay cuts in a new era of austerity.

...The separation of the professional leagues from FFA means the owners now have the control they have fought for and the responsibility to ensure our domestic competitions not only survive, but thrive.” 

Busch believes players have already bent over backwards to accommodate the FFA and the clubs. 

“The sacrifices made by players to allow for the A-League to resume and be preserved have been immense and unprecedented globally,” he declared. “

https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/players-face-savage-pay-cuts-as-pfa-prepares-to-battle-with-a-league-clubs

has FFA told PFA that AL is independent?

And Lowy should be applauded for the A League and for getting us into Asia.
But was anyone seriously thinking in 2006 - hey it would be amazing if this comp still existed in 15 years?
I suppose the point is that like any business, if you have large success, you can either take advantage of the windfall (be it $$ or an increase in customers) plan strategically and invest in the future ... or you can hire an 'administrator' to watch the pennies and make sure you only whittle away the windfall slowly. It's as if the level of thinking was:
1. Get three international marquees in one season to generate interest
2. Umm, why did we do 1?
It'd just be nice if someone somewhere in the FFA said, you know what, looking back we haven't got much right in the last 10 years.

”

Players are headed for a huge stand-off with Football Federation Australia over an expected slashing of next season’s A-League salary cap, a move which could trigger a star-studded exodus.
 Some of the competition’s biggest names could revolt if next year’s contracts are drastically reduced, opening the door to demands for the right to leave immediately given the materially changed nature of their deals.

 The situation carries echoes of that experienced recently by the NBL, where dual MVP Bryce Cotton as well as fellow high-profile stars Casper Ware and Xavier Cooks were among those to take up the option to walk out on deals after being asked to take COVID-19-related cuts....

Of added concern for players on multi-year deals is that the current collective bargaining agreement, renegotiated in the wake of the COVID-19 shutdown in order to complete the 2019-20 season to run through until August 30, could prevent them from seeking lucrative moves to overseas clubs.Should players be asked to take pay cuts for next season, they would effectively be given the opportunity to end their contracts – but not until September 1.

And with the transfer window for most of Europe already open, clubs are already on the hunt for talent which leaves A-League players left in the lurch.

The European window is nominally set to close on October 5, however FIFA has flagged an option to extend windows where necessary – or have additional windows to allow more player transfers, given the extreme circumstances.

Negotiations between the clubs and the players’ union opened this week on a new CBA...”

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/football/aleague-news-ffa-set-for-standoff-with-players-over-cap-cuts/news-story/6f02adabd1fa0a62d84c7d3e05e8d002

Sydney FC may have problems. They backend their contracts.

So a whole bunch of journeyman will go overseas? Bad side is....?

Kosta B, Rojas, Nabbout, Jurman, I think this kind of players may leave.

Any player who is half decent but not a marquee will be looking elsewhere.

Keep a salary minimum but no salary cap and leave it at that. 

Can’t see APFCA agreeing as they will look to keep costs down.

Hopefully PFA faces reality and we see a proper salary floor established. As in minimum wage. I would like to see minimum salary scrapped. 

If the salary cap is severely reduced clubs should imo be able to have 7 or more visa players. You can get better value for money than Australian players. If the 5 subs is kept it’s not such a big deal.

That is what should happen,if the IAL are serious about when they get control they will invest and make the A League so much better then what it has been. They need to scrap the cap and let the individual owners/clubs spend what they are prepared to spend, they just need a salary floor. Let those that can and are willing to invest,invest and stop trying to even the playing field by pulling clubs down to other clubs level in order to try and manipulate results.

“

A-League players to push for overhaul of failing salary cap

The A-League salary cap is not only failing in its stated aims but also “directly contributing to a raft of negative unintended consequences”, according to the players’ union, which will this week step up a campaign to see it reformed.Discussions over the cap will be a key flashpoint when Professional Footballers Australia and clubs pick up discussions over a new collective bargaining agreement. It is understood the players will push hard for the cap to be abolished.Watch every match of the 2019/20 Hyundai A-League Season LIVE on Kayo. New to Kayo? Get your 14-day free trial & start streaming instantly >As revealed last week, it is feared that the standoff, and the looming cuts to the game’s salary cap for next season, could result in an exodus of the A-League’s biggest names.And that could be leveraged into calls to scrap the $3.2 million salary cap altogether.It is a position which has been raised previously by the players’ union, which argues it does little to promote competitive balance, nor the financial sustainability of clubs.And with the league facing a critical juncture, players believe now is the time to act.“The restraints imposed by the salary cap means that its ongoing operation requires continual agreement from the players and this agreement has always been highly conditional,” PFA co-chief executive Beau Busch told News Corp.“The players’ position is clear; the current model requires significant reform.“In its current form, the salary cap is not achieving its stated objectives and is directly contributing to a raft of negative unintended consequences such as extreme player churn and fan disengagement.”Last month, FFA chief executive James Johnson revealed the 11 principles upon which it was hoped Australian football could build and grow — with one being establishing a domestic transfer system which could reward clubs for developing and producing talent. However the PFA believes this would not be feasible while continuing to operate under a restrictive salary cap.“Attempts to introduce a domestic transfer system, while continuing to operate a salary cap, would be hugely problematic and is likely only to result in the further erosion of competitive balance and financial viability,” Busch said.When the COVID-19 shutdown hit, the financial instability of clubs was laid bare, with teams forced to stand down players and slash costs across the board.FFA was contacted for comment.”

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/football/aleague-players-to-push-for-overhaul-of-failing-salary-cap/news-story/cac6d7b0c5aea89f9a152310683dff04

Very interesting. I wonder if a move to remove the salary cap and Charlesworth returning his license for the Mariners is related?