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huddo
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+x+x because of a lack of funding Nth Queensland in their final year was forced into a bus trip to Perth, three days for one game,  I'm sure, they did a midweek training session at Alice.
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huddo
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+x+xThat doesn't mean I as a aleague supporters don't want change to Pro/Rel in the future, I just don't want a majority of clubs becoming NthQ, otherwise it's a regression All you see are problems as to why this wouldn't work. How about expending a little bit of that brain energy of yours into why this would/could work? I was asked what the issues were, I gave the issues, don't fuckin ask me if you don't fuckin want them.
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Buggalugs the Third
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+x+x+x because of a lack of funding Nth Queensland in their final year was forced into a bus trip to Perth, three days for one game, I'm sure, they did a midweek training session at Alice. Mum told me never to over-egg the pudding
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Muz
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+x+x+xThat doesn't mean I as a aleague supporters don't want change to Pro/Rel in the future, I just don't want a majority of clubs becoming NthQ, otherwise it's a regression All you see are problems as to why this wouldn't work. How about expending a little bit of that brain energy of yours into why this would/could work? I was asked what the issues were, I gave the issues, don't fuckin ask me if you don't fuckin want them. And i rebutted them with possible solutions. Don't get your knickers in a knot because you're a glass half empty kind of bloke. As for crowds of 3000 at home grounds for former NSL clubs. (And remember a lot of them own their own grounds.) Imagine those 3000 attendees paying $10 a ticket per match. That's 30k in revenue a week. (Excluding food and drink.) Let's assume there's 15 home matches. That's $450 000 revenue before even signing a sponsor.
Member since 2008.
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Muz
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+x+xGoing to ask a simple question here and see what the resident brains trusts have to say. IF pro rel can work in 200 odd countries why do you not think it couldn't work here? Huddo can start. Unlike 200 odd countries the Aleague is a continental competition spanding the vastness of Australaisa (same goes for MLS for it CanadIan Clubs) WE ARE NOT A NATIONAL COMPETITION When Wellington gets rightly booted it will be a national competition.
Member since 2008.
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Enzo Bearzot
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+x+xNot having pro/rel in the A-league is wrong and not having pro/rel in the NSL was wrong. How is this used as an argument of why we should continue without it? People need to stop using it as an argument against pro/rel. Exactly. Why our how the NSL was run in the old days is moot. Nearly everyone admits it was a basket case including hard core NSL people. That doesn't mean from now until kingdom come nothing can change. The older I get the more I realize those who younger that don't know or give a rats about history and are therefore doomed to repeat it. But even worse, people like you know the history, and you still want to repeat it.? Give me one thing that is now so different that THIS- time we won't repeat it?
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Enzo Bearzot
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+x+x+x+x+x+xI don't understand how people can be anti-Super League but pro-A League. It's the same concept. This is going to be a controversial opinion but it is my opinion. I think people need to realise that these owners have realised that these clubs are global brands and people will pay to watch them, whatever league they decide to play in. I think football fans are also at fault.. clubs were created to represent a geographical area and yet we have people on here who support clubs in London, Manchester, etc and they've never even travelled to that city for a holiday, let alone lived there. Watching them on TV is not the same, no matter what reasons you want to give me. THIS! Pick and choose the concept when it suits them.... It's not picking and choosing, it's Horses for Coarse, we can't afford to have an open comp at this time in Australia (although I'd like to see it in the future), they can't afford to have a closed comp in Europe (As it would destroy 150 years of history, and probably multiple smaller clubs). ESL concept lasted 2 days (although it far from over and will rise its ugly head in the future I reckon) yet Aleague concept has lasted 17 years. WE CAN afford an open comp here, the only objectors are 12 x franchise holders.... and their ever diminishing band of sycophants. What about the 150 year history of clubs here? ... Thats not worth preserving? You seem intent on pushing the idea that "history" and an "open competition" are one in the same in Australia when it has been pointed out to you they are not. A closed shop didn't start with the a league nor is an open competition reliant on the demise of the a league. The fact that you and some others keep peddling this false narrative makes me think you are more interested in feeling superior to fans of a league clubs rather than wanting to see Australian football prosper. No not at all, I agree the idea of an open competition is NOT reliant on the demise of the A league, but rather on it opening itself up to the prospect of including every other club in the land.... Despite you thinking what has and hasnt been pointed out about the NSL and how or why pro/rel didnt work or was tried and failed how many times, or was mismanaged or whatever the Aleague was meant to be a new dawn and that IS FAILING..... What part of the below is a false narrative btw, genuinely interested as to why you say this? 1) ESL competition with 15 teams that can ever be relegated is panned worldwide and everyone in football agrees this is against the concept of sporting achievement. 2) Aleague is a competition were the 12 participating franchises can never be relegated despite their sporting performance....never. 3) Aleague fans who where seething at the thought of their favourite EPL team participating in the "plastic" ESL think the Aleague model is different because it protects their clubs owners from having to spend more than they are willing to invest so it is justified. The difference is $10 billion and continental domination of the sport. They have both. We have neither.
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AJF
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+x+xGoing to ask a simple question here and see what the resident brains trusts have to say. IF pro rel can work in 200 odd countries why do you not think it couldn't work here? Huddo can start. Unlike 200 odd countries the Aleague is a continental competition spanding the vastness of Australaisa (same goes for MLS for it CanadIan Clubs) WE ARE NOT A NATIONAL COMPETITION considering AL is modeled on MLS franchise system bit hard to try using it as a example of why that system is OK. With regards to distance that's such a lame excuse, Russia is bigger and wider and has full P/R so if they can manage why cant we? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_in_post_Soviet_Russia#League_system  Australia is 0.45 times as big as Russia Russia,or the Russian Federation, is a transcontinental country located in Eastern Europe and Northern Asia. It extends from the Baltic Sea in the west to the Pacific Ocean in the east, and from the Arctic Ocean in the north to the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea in the south. Russia, the largest country by area,covers over 17,125,200 square kilometres (6,612,100 sq mi),spanning more than one-eighth of the Earth’s inhabited land area, stretching eleven time zones, and bordering 16 sovereign nations.
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petszk
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+x+x+xGoing to ask a simple question here and see what the resident brains trusts have to say. IF pro rel can work in 200 odd countries why do you not think it couldn't work here? Huddo can start. Unlike 200 odd countries the Aleague is a continental competition spanding the vastness of Australaisa (same goes for MLS for it CanadIan Clubs) WE ARE NOT A NATIONAL COMPETITION considering AL is modeled on MLS franchise system bit hard to try using it as a example of why that system is OK. With regards to distance that's such a lame excuse, Russia is bigger and wider and has full P/R so if they can manage why cant we? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_in_post_Soviet_Russia#League_system Australia is 0.45 times as big as Russia Russia,or the Russian Federation, is a transcontinental country located in Eastern Europe and Northern Asia. It extends from the Baltic Sea in the west to the Pacific Ocean in the east, and from the Arctic Ocean in the north to the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea in the south. Russia, the largest country by area,covers over 17,125,200 square kilometres (6,612,100 sq mi),spanning more than one-eighth of the Earth’s inhabited land area, stretching eleven time zones, and bordering 16 sovereign nations.
Russia also has nearly 6 times the population of Australia and has football as it's #1 sport... Not 4th/5th as we do in Australia.
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huddo
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+xGoing to ask a simple question here and see what the resident brains trusts have to say. IF pro rel can work in 200 odd countries why do you not think it couldn't work here? Huddo can start. Unlike 200 odd countries the Aleague is a continental competition spanding the vastness of Australaisa (same goes for MLS for it CanadIan Clubs) WE ARE NOT A NATIONAL COMPETITION considering AL is modeled on MLS franchise system bit hard to try using it as a example of why that system is OK. With regards to distance that's such a lame excuse, Russia is bigger and wider and has full P/R so if they can manage why cant we? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_in_post_Soviet_Russia#League_system Australia is 0.45 times as big as Russia Russia,or the Russian Federation, is a transcontinental country located in Eastern Europe and Northern Asia. It extends from the Baltic Sea in the west to the Pacific Ocean in the east, and from the Arctic Ocean in the north to the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea in the south. Russia, the largest country by area,covers over 17,125,200 square kilometres (6,612,100 sq mi),spanning more than one-eighth of the Earth’s inhabited land area, stretching eleven time zones, and bordering 16 sovereign nations.
Correct me if I'm wrong the Russians don't include the east in there premier league, the longest distance in play is around 2000 km between Sochi and Ural, I may be off by a hundred if Zenit is further, the distance from Sydney to Perth is over 3200 km. Learn your league's.
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+xGoing to ask a simple question here and see what the resident brains trusts have to say. IF pro rel can work in 200 odd countries why do you not think it couldn't work here? Huddo can start. Unlike 200 odd countries the Aleague is a continental competition spanding the vastness of Australaisa (same goes for MLS for it CanadIan Clubs) WE ARE NOT A NATIONAL COMPETITION considering AL is modeled on MLS franchise system bit hard to try using it as a example of why that system is OK. With regards to distance that's such a lame excuse, Russia is bigger and wider and has full P/R so if they can manage why cant we? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_in_post_Soviet_Russia#League_system Australia is 0.45 times as big as Russia Russia,or the Russian Federation, is a transcontinental country located in Eastern Europe and Northern Asia. It extends from the Baltic Sea in the west to the Pacific Ocean in the east, and from the Arctic Ocean in the north to the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea in the south. Russia, the largest country by area,covers over 17,125,200 square kilometres (6,612,100 sq mi),spanning more than one-eighth of the Earth’s inhabited land area, stretching eleven time zones, and bordering 16 sovereign nations.
Correct me if I'm wrong the Russians don't include the east in there premier league, the longest distance in play is around 2000 km between Sochi and Ural, I may be off by a hundred if Zenit is further, the distance from Sydney to Perth is over 3200 km. Learn your league's. The distance argument is a sideshow. It's a 5 hour flight. AND? Teams can't make that trip once a season?
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SUTHERLANDBEAR
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+x+xAnd what would be the criteria for promotion ? Merit ? Wealth ? Geographical ? It would end up a primarily NSW/ VIC league IMHO. I am a PRO/REL fan, but think this country is too big and divided for that. Merit and only merit. Are you upset because London has 6 teams in the EPL? If anything this would only make pro rel more exciting. Imagine little old Freemantle FC or whoever getting promoted into the league with the 'scummers' from the east. I don not give two fucks for the EPL, but i do for the the A league. This fantasy you have will not happen in your lifetime. Australians in general are not interested in second division sports. '"Scummers " how old are you ?
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+xNot having pro/rel in the A-league is wrong and not having pro/rel in the NSL was wrong. How is this used as an argument of why we should continue without it? People need to stop using it as an argument against pro/rel. Exactly. Why our how the NSL was run in the old days is moot. Nearly everyone admits it was a basket case including hard core NSL people. That doesn't mean from now until kingdom come nothing can change. The older I get the more I realize those who younger that don't know or give a rats about history and are therefore doomed to repeat it. But even worse, people like you know the history, and you still want to repeat it.? Give me one thing that is now so different that THIS- time we won't repeat it? You ready? You set criteria for entry that needs to be met before you get admitted into the A league or the NSD. Media facilities Financials Bank guarantees Lighting Stadium seating Marketing budgets etc etc You set everything out BEFORE any team can be a part of it. IF a team can't meet any of the above, or whatever criteria the FA or whoever sets, they're not allowed in. Again, if it can work just about everywhere else why can't it work here?
Member since 2008.
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+xAnd what would be the criteria for promotion ? Merit ? Wealth ? Geographical ? It would end up a primarily NSW/ VIC league IMHO. I am a PRO/REL fan, but think this country is too big and divided for that. Merit and only merit. Are you upset because London has 6 teams in the EPL? If anything this would only make pro rel more exciting. Imagine little old Freemantle FC or whoever getting promoted into the league with the 'scummers' from the east. I don not give two fucks for the EPL, but i do for the the A league. This fantasy you have will not happen in your lifetime. Australians in general are not interested in second division sports. '"Scummers " how old are you ? The 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th divisions already exist. All that's missing is the link between them and the top tier. Besides any of that if you care for the A-league you'll realise something needs to be done and done shortly because it's on it's last legs and not working in the current format. Macarthur Bulls? WTF?! Who are they and how many go to their games? Ditto Western United. I couldn't even tell you without thinking hard about it where these 2 clubs are based. And I follow the A-league. How many people are watching it on TV? How many are attending (pre-covid)? It's dying. If we live in a fantasy world because we want a proper football pyramid then you live in a parallel one where the A-League is all sunshine and lollipops.
Member since 2008.
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huddo
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.5K,
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+x+x+x+xAnd what would be the criteria for promotion ? Merit ? Wealth ? Geographical ? It would end up a primarily NSW/ VIC league IMHO. I am a PRO/REL fan, but think this country is too big and divided for that. Merit and only merit. Are you upset because London has 6 teams in the EPL? If anything this would only make pro rel more exciting. Imagine little old Freemantle FC or whoever getting promoted into the league with the 'scummers' from the east. I don not give two fucks for the EPL, but i do for the the A league. This fantasy you have will not happen in your lifetime. Australians in general are not interested in second division sports. '"Scummers " how old are you ? The 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th divisions already exist. All that's missing is the link between them and the top tier. Besides any of that if you care for the A-league you'll realise something needs to be done and done shortly because it's on it's last legs and not working in the current format. Macarthur Bulls? WTF?! Who are they and how many go to their games? Ditto Western United. I couldn't even tell you without thinking hard about it where these 2 clubs are based. And I follow the A-league. How many people are watching it on TV? How many are attending (pre-covid)? It's dying. If we live in a fantasy world because we want a proper football pyramid then you live in a parallel one where the A-League is all sunshine and lollipops. No, what we have is a fractured 2nd 3rd 4th and 5th tiers in 6 different states. This is why distance is an issue.
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Buggalugs the Third
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 220,
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+x+x+x+xNot having pro/rel in the A-league is wrong and not having pro/rel in the NSL was wrong. How is this used as an argument of why we should continue without it? People need to stop using it as an argument against pro/rel. Exactly. Why our how the NSL was run in the old days is moot. Nearly everyone admits it was a basket case including hard core NSL people. That doesn't mean from now until kingdom come nothing can change. The older I get the more I realize those who younger that don't know or give a rats about history and are therefore doomed to repeat it. But even worse, people like you know the history, and you still want to repeat it.? Give me one thing that is now so different that THIS- time we won't repeat it? You ready? You set criteria for entry that needs to be met before you get admitted into the A league or the NSD. Media facilities Financials Bank guarantees Lighting Stadium seating Marketing budgets etc etc You set everything out BEFORE any team can be a part of it. IF a team can't meet any of the above, or whatever criteria the FA or whoever sets, they're not allowed in. Again, if it can work just about everywhere else why can't it work here? Criteria should be minimum chips Spectator Safety Player Safety Officials Safety Maybe lighting, maybe minimum capacity otherwise don't give those in situ any unneccessary excuses to refuse promotion
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SUTHERLANDBEAR
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.1K,
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+x+x+x+xAnd what would be the criteria for promotion ? Merit ? Wealth ? Geographical ? It would end up a primarily NSW/ VIC league IMHO. I am a PRO/REL fan, but think this country is too big and divided for that. Merit and only merit. Are you upset because London has 6 teams in the EPL? If anything this would only make pro rel more exciting. Imagine little old Freemantle FC or whoever getting promoted into the league with the 'scummers' from the east. I don not give two fucks for the EPL, but i do for the the A league. This fantasy you have will not happen in your lifetime. Australians in general are not interested in second division sports. '"Scummers " how old are you ? The 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th divisions already exist. All that's missing is the link between them and the top tier. Besides any of that if you care for the A-league you'll realise something needs to be done and done shortly because it's on it's last legs and not working in the current format. Macarthur Bulls? WTF?! Who are they and how many go to their games? Ditto Western United. I couldn't even tell you without thinking hard about it where these 2 clubs are based. And I follow the A-league. How many people are watching it on TV? How many are attending (pre-covid)? It's dying. If we live in a fantasy world because we want a proper football pyramid then you live in a parallel one where the A-League is all sunshine and lollipops. The divisions you speak of are not national divisions are they ? So we just have state play offs to reach the top ? Where is the money and supporters coming from, Frank has left the building and we don't have rich sugar daddies queueing up to invest. If people are not viewing now, how are you going to change that in THIS country ?
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 14K,
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+x+x+x+x+xAnd what would be the criteria for promotion ? Merit ? Wealth ? Geographical ? It would end up a primarily NSW/ VIC league IMHO. I am a PRO/REL fan, but think this country is too big and divided for that. Merit and only merit. Are you upset because London has 6 teams in the EPL? If anything this would only make pro rel more exciting. Imagine little old Freemantle FC or whoever getting promoted into the league with the 'scummers' from the east. I don not give two fucks for the EPL, but i do for the the A league. This fantasy you have will not happen in your lifetime. Australians in general are not interested in second division sports. '"Scummers " how old are you ? The 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th divisions already exist. All that's missing is the link between them and the top tier. Besides any of that if you care for the A-league you'll realise something needs to be done and done shortly because it's on it's last legs and not working in the current format. Macarthur Bulls? WTF?! Who are they and how many go to their games? Ditto Western United. I couldn't even tell you without thinking hard about it where these 2 clubs are based. And I follow the A-league. How many people are watching it on TV? How many are attending (pre-covid)? It's dying. If we live in a fantasy world because we want a proper football pyramid then you live in a parallel one where the A-League is all sunshine and lollipops. The divisions you speak of are not national divisions are they ? So we just have state play offs to reach the top ? Where is the money and supporters coming from, Frank has left the building and we don't have rich sugar daddies queueing up to invest. If people are not viewing now, how are you going to change that in THIS country ? The divisions are in place and with just a tweak they could be national. Nobody even needs to watch the NSD on TV. It's not a barrier for the league to exist. If people watch it, great. If they don't they don't. As for the money I'll quote myself. As for crowds of 3000 at home grounds for former NSL clubs. (And remember a lot of them own their own grounds.)
Imagine those 3000 attendees paying $10 a ticket per match.
That's 30k in revenue a week. (Excluding food and drink.) Let's assume there's 15 home matches. That's $450 000 revenue before even signing a sponsor.
Member since 2008.
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 14K,
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+x+x+x+x+xNot having pro/rel in the A-league is wrong and not having pro/rel in the NSL was wrong. How is this used as an argument of why we should continue without it? People need to stop using it as an argument against pro/rel. Exactly. Why our how the NSL was run in the old days is moot. Nearly everyone admits it was a basket case including hard core NSL people. That doesn't mean from now until kingdom come nothing can change. The older I get the more I realize those who younger that don't know or give a rats about history and are therefore doomed to repeat it. But even worse, people like you know the history, and you still want to repeat it.? Give me one thing that is now so different that THIS- time we won't repeat it? You ready? You set criteria for entry that needs to be met before you get admitted into the A league or the NSD. Media facilities Financials Bank guarantees Lighting Stadium seating Marketing budgets etc etc You set everything out BEFORE any team can be a part of it. IF a team can't meet any of the above, or whatever criteria the FA or whoever sets, they're not allowed in. Again, if it can work just about everywhere else why can't it work here? Criteria should be minimum chips Spectator Safety Player Safety Officials Safety Maybe lighting, maybe minimum capacity otherwise don't give those in situ any unneccessary excuses to refuse promotion Definitely need minimum standards though but as you say they shouldn't be so onerous as to exclude 95% of prospective teams.
Member since 2008.
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Muz
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New champions league format is an abortion. 100 extra games and backdoor entry to underperforming big clubs that have failed to qualify. Pretty much everything they were railing against with the ESL regards not qualifying 'on merit' has been thrown into their new proposal. https://sport.optus.com.au/articles/os24191/champions-league-changes-super-league-reaction-anlysisExtract: However, it means adding 100 matches an already congested football calendar with little off-season that continues to push players to their limits. "Of course it's getting worse, but who cares? It's business, it's money. Just for this six [Premier League] teams? No, no. For everyone," Pep Guardiola said in comments about UEFA on Wednesday morning AEST. "FIFA as well. The World Cup: we started with 16 and it went up and up and we're going to play with 50 countries. Ah, but it's okay. UEFA? More games. "And the clubs. Do they listen to what the managers or the footballers said? When the season finished, we have two-three weeks off and then start again, start again. You demand. "What about the problems about injuries? Absolutely nothing. Pick another player. The show must go on. "Then maybe they think of something that maybe they don't like, then they react." Another concern is a growing gulf between the rich and the rest developing in the game. Last week, fans from 14 of the 28 clubs represented on the ECA board signed a scathing open letter to the chairman of the organisation vehemently objecting to these changes to the Champions League based on that exact notion. Supporter groups from Manchester United, Paris Saint-Germain, Real Madrid, Arsenal, Ajax, Bayern Munich, Anderlecht, Atletico Madrid, Benfica, Borussia Dortmund, FC Copenhagen, Fenerbahce, Young Boys and Lyon were involved. “Your plans to restructure the Champions League by increasing the number of games, introducing qualification based on past achievements, and monopolising commercial rights present a serious threat to the entire game,” the joint letter read. “You will only make the gap between the rich and the rest bigger, wreck domestic calendars, and expect fans to sacrifice yet more time and money.” “We are the fans of today, and we do not want more European games. We want strong, competitive domestic leagues, an equal opportunity to qualify for Europe based on sporting merit, and fairer sharing of the game’s wealth. “We, therefore, demand that you drop your reckless plans. We also call on football’s governing bodies to stop making concessions to elite clubs and intervene to protect the future of the game.”
Member since 2008.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+xNot having pro/rel in the A-league is wrong and not having pro/rel in the NSL was wrong. How is this used as an argument of why we should continue without it? People need to stop using it as an argument against pro/rel. Exactly. Why our how the NSL was run in the old days is moot. Nearly everyone admits it was a basket case including hard core NSL people. That doesn't mean from now until kingdom come nothing can change. The older I get the more I realize those who younger that don't know or give a rats about history and are therefore doomed to repeat it. But even worse, people like you know the history, and you still want to repeat it.? Give me one thing that is now so different that THIS- time we won't repeat it? You ready? You set criteria for entry that needs to be met before you get admitted into the A league or the NSD. Media facilities Financials Bank guarantees Lighting Stadium seating Marketing budgets etc etc You set everything out BEFORE any team can be a part of it. IF a team can't meet any of the above, or whatever criteria the FA or whoever sets, they're not allowed in. Again, if it can work just about everywhere else why can't it work here? Isn't that what the license bidding does anyway? It can't work here because we don't have the money or the fan base ( not the same as player base).
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
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+x+x+x+x+xNot having pro/rel in the A-league is wrong and not having pro/rel in the NSL was wrong. How is this used as an argument of why we should continue without it? People need to stop using it as an argument against pro/rel. Exactly. Why our how the NSL was run in the old days is moot. Nearly everyone admits it was a basket case including hard core NSL people. That doesn't mean from now until kingdom come nothing can change. The older I get the more I realize those who younger that don't know or give a rats about history and are therefore doomed to repeat it. But even worse, people like you know the history, and you still want to repeat it.? Give me one thing that is now so different that THIS- time we won't repeat it? You ready? You set criteria for entry that needs to be met before you get admitted into the A league or the NSD. Media facilities Financials Bank guarantees Lighting Stadium seating Marketing budgets etc etc You set everything out BEFORE any team can be a part of it. IF a team can't meet any of the above, or whatever criteria the FA or whoever sets, they're not allowed in. Again, if it can work just about everywhere else why can't it work here? Criteria should be minimum chips Spectator Safety Player Safety Officials Safety Maybe lighting, maybe minimum capacity otherwise don't give those in situ any unneccessary excuses to refuse promotion So you don't want a full-pro set up....ie you want the failed model of the past, the very thing that was identified as THE top priority to avoid and lead to the creation of the A-League in the first place. Been there. Done that.
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SUTHERLANDBEAR
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+x+x+x+x+x+xAnd what would be the criteria for promotion ? Merit ? Wealth ? Geographical ? It would end up a primarily NSW/ VIC league IMHO. I am a PRO/REL fan, but think this country is too big and divided for that. Merit and only merit. Are you upset because London has 6 teams in the EPL? If anything this would only make pro rel more exciting. Imagine little old Freemantle FC or whoever getting promoted into the league with the 'scummers' from the east. I don not give two fucks for the EPL, but i do for the the A league. This fantasy you have will not happen in your lifetime. Australians in general are not interested in second division sports. '"Scummers " how old are you ? The 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th divisions already exist. All that's missing is the link between them and the top tier. Besides any of that if you care for the A-league you'll realise something needs to be done and done shortly because it's on it's last legs and not working in the current format. Macarthur Bulls? WTF?! Who are they and how many go to their games? Ditto Western United. I couldn't even tell you without thinking hard about it where these 2 clubs are based. And I follow the A-league. How many people are watching it on TV? How many are attending (pre-covid)? It's dying. If we live in a fantasy world because we want a proper football pyramid then you live in a parallel one where the A-League is all sunshine and lollipops. The divisions you speak of are not national divisions are they ? So we just have state play offs to reach the top ? Where is the money and supporters coming from, Frank has left the building and we don't have rich sugar daddies queueing up to invest. If people are not viewing now, how are you going to change that in THIS country ? The divisions are in place and with just a tweak they could be national. Nobody even needs to watch the NSD on TV. It's not a barrier for the league to exist. If people watch it, great. If they don't they don't. As for the money I'll quote myself. As for crowds of 3000 at home grounds for former NSL clubs. (And remember a lot of them own their own grounds.)
Imagine those 3000 attendees paying $10 a ticket per match.
That's 30k in revenue a week. (Excluding food and drink.) Let's assume there's 15 home matches. That's $450 000 revenue before even signing a sponsor. So that is the second division money ? I don't think that you would be able to compete on less than $5 million per year. Remember you have two teams plus staff plus ground hire, air fares and accommodation amongst other things to consider. It ain't cheap.
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Footyball
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Well, that idea fell in a heap!
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huddo
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+xWell, that idea fell in a heap! They always do, lots of wishful thinking, not much understanding.
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johnsmith
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+xGoing to ask a simple question here and see what the resident brains trusts have to say. IF pro rel can work in 200 odd countries why do you not think it couldn't work here? Huddo can start. Resident brains trust happy to answer your question: For a small league where many of the clubs are not endowed with strong financial roots, you can see that a club might not survive long if they take a financial hit. We've seen how small A-League clubs have been affected by the Covid downturn. Some clubs had to ask players to take a pay cut just to survive. Now, when an A-League club gets relegated, that is a financial hit. Do you think there will be clubs that cannot make long term investments if they are going to be relegated, and stay relegated for a long time? I think many A-League clubs may not have the financial reserves to survive long term stints in the second division. Being part of the "brains trust", I imagine that this is a massive reason why a promotion relegation system was never implemented in the first place. Are you aware of any sports league that was started from scratch, and started life immediately as a promotion-relegation league?
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI don't understand how people can be anti-Super League but pro-A League. It's the same concept. This is going to be a controversial opinion but it is my opinion. I think people need to realise that these owners have realised that these clubs are global brands and people will pay to watch them, whatever league they decide to play in. I think football fans are also at fault.. clubs were created to represent a geographical area and yet we have people on here who support clubs in London, Manchester, etc and they've never even travelled to that city for a holiday, let alone lived there. Watching them on TV is not the same, no matter what reasons you want to give me. THIS! Pick and choose the concept when it suits them.... It's not picking and choosing, it's Horses for Coarse, we can't afford to have an open comp at this time in Australia (although I'd like to see it in the future), they can't afford to have a closed comp in Europe (As it would destroy 150 years of history, and probably multiple smaller clubs). ESL concept lasted 2 days (although it far from over and will rise its ugly head in the future I reckon) yet Aleague concept has lasted 17 years. WE CAN afford an open comp here, the only objectors are 12 x franchise holders.... and their ever diminishing band of sycophants. What about the 150 year history of clubs here? ... Thats not worth preserving? You seem intent on pushing the idea that "history" and an "open competition" are one in the same in Australia when it has been pointed out to you they are not. A closed shop didn't start with the a league nor is an open competition reliant on the demise of the a league. The fact that you and some others keep peddling this false narrative makes me think you are more interested in feeling superior to fans of a league clubs rather than wanting to see Australian football prosper. No not at all, I agree the idea of an open competition is NOT reliant on the demise of the A league, but rather on it opening itself up to the prospect of including every other club in the land.... Despite you thinking what has and hasnt been pointed out about the NSL and how or why pro/rel didnt work or was tried and failed how many times, or was mismanaged or whatever the Aleague was meant to be a new dawn and that IS FAILING..... What part of the below is a false narrative btw, genuinely interested as to why you say this? 1) ESL competition with 15 teams that can ever be relegated is panned worldwide and everyone in football agrees this is against the concept of sporting achievement. 2) Aleague is a competition were the 12 participating franchises can never be relegated despite their sporting performance....never. 3) Aleague fans who where seething at the thought of their favourite EPL team participating in the "plastic" ESL think the Aleague model is different because it protects their clubs owners from having to spend more than they are willing to invest so it is justified. The difference is $10 billion and continental domination of the sport. They have both. We have neither. Been chasing those billions for 17 years now....l
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AJF
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+x+x+x+xGoing to ask a simple question here and see what the resident brains trusts have to say. IF pro rel can work in 200 odd countries why do you not think it couldn't work here? Huddo can start. Unlike 200 odd countries the Aleague is a continental competition spanding the vastness of Australaisa (same goes for MLS for it CanadIan Clubs) WE ARE NOT A NATIONAL COMPETITION considering AL is modeled on MLS franchise system bit hard to try using it as a example of why that system is OK. With regards to distance that's such a lame excuse, Russia is bigger and wider and has full P/R so if they can manage why cant we? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_in_post_Soviet_Russia#League_system Australia is 0.45 times as big as Russia Russia,or the Russian Federation, is a transcontinental country located in Eastern Europe and Northern Asia. It extends from the Baltic Sea in the west to the Pacific Ocean in the east, and from the Arctic Ocean in the north to the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea in the south. Russia, the largest country by area,covers over 17,125,200 square kilometres (6,612,100 sq mi),spanning more than one-eighth of the Earth’s inhabited land area, stretching eleven time zones, and bordering 16 sovereign nations.
Correct me if I'm wrong the Russians don't include the east in there premier league, the longest distance in play is around 2000 km between Sochi and Ural, I may be off by a hundred if Zenit is further, the distance from Sydney to Perth is over 3200 km. Learn your league's. Pffft, what an amateur, learn to research proprly before pretending you know what you are talking about. Russian side Baltika Kaliningrad travel 13,000-miles for longest away match trip in world at Luch Vladivostok, taking handful of fans… to watch a 0-0 drawLuch-Energiya travelled nearly 6,500miles each way bore the bore draw in the second tier of Russian football at the weekend https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/3134727/russian-side-travel-13000-miles-for-goalless-draw/
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.7K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAnd what would be the criteria for promotion ? Merit ? Wealth ? Geographical ? It would end up a primarily NSW/ VIC league IMHO. I am a PRO/REL fan, but think this country is too big and divided for that. Merit and only merit. Are you upset because London has 6 teams in the EPL? If anything this would only make pro rel more exciting. Imagine little old Freemantle FC or whoever getting promoted into the league with the 'scummers' from the east. I don not give two fucks for the EPL, but i do for the the A league. This fantasy you have will not happen in your lifetime. Australians in general are not interested in second division sports. '"Scummers " how old are you ? The 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th divisions already exist. All that's missing is the link between them and the top tier. Besides any of that if you care for the A-league you'll realise something needs to be done and done shortly because it's on it's last legs and not working in the current format. Macarthur Bulls? WTF?! Who are they and how many go to their games? Ditto Western United. I couldn't even tell you without thinking hard about it where these 2 clubs are based. And I follow the A-league. How many people are watching it on TV? How many are attending (pre-covid)? It's dying. If we live in a fantasy world because we want a proper football pyramid then you live in a parallel one where the A-League is all sunshine and lollipops. The divisions you speak of are not national divisions are they ? So we just have state play offs to reach the top ? Where is the money and supporters coming from, Frank has left the building and we don't have rich sugar daddies queueing up to invest. If people are not viewing now, how are you going to change that in THIS country ? The divisions are in place and with just a tweak they could be national. Nobody even needs to watch the NSD on TV. It's not a barrier for the league to exist. If people watch it, great. If they don't they don't. As for the money I'll quote myself. As for crowds of 3000 at home grounds for former NSL clubs. (And remember a lot of them own their own grounds.)
Imagine those 3000 attendees paying $10 a ticket per match.
That's 30k in revenue a week. (Excluding food and drink.) Let's assume there's 15 home matches. That's $450 000 revenue before even signing a sponsor. So that is the second division money ? I don't think that you would be able to compete on less than $5 million per year. Remember you have two teams plus staff plus ground hire, air fares and accommodation amongst other things to consider. It ain't cheap. How are Aleague clubs managing to survive o less than that with 4 times the "professional expenses" .. Seriously curious as to why you would expect an NSD club to spend double what the Newcastle Jets spend a season?
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.7K,
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+x+xGoing to ask a simple question here and see what the resident brains trusts have to say. IF pro rel can work in 200 odd countries why do you not think it couldn't work here? Huddo can start. Resident brains trust happy to answer your question: For a small league where many of the clubs are not endowed with strong financial roots, you can see that a club might not survive long if they take a financial hit. We've seen how small A-League clubs have been affected by the Covid downturn. Some clubs had to ask players to take a pay cut just to survive. Now, when an A-League club gets relegated, that is a financial hit. Do you think there will be clubs that cannot make long term investments if they are going to be relegated, and stay relegated for a long time? I think many A-League clubs may not have the financial reserves to survive long term stints in the second division. Being part of the "brains trust", I imagine that this is a massive reason why a promotion relegation system was never implemented in the first place. Are you aware of any sports league that was started from scratch, and started life immediately as a promotion-relegation league? As part of the brains trust are you perhaps aware that there are dozens if not hundreds of leagues around the world where the clubs involved have even smaller financial reserves than in Australia. Alot of these leagues are even younger than yours.. How old do you think the Serbian or Croatian league are for example, yet they started 30 odd years ago (I assume) from day dot with multiple divisions and pro/rel... If not from the very first season at least very soon after. Lots of leagues start from scratch only difference is they don't ignore every single existing soccer club in their country and start phoney baloney plastic franchises in every city to fleece the dopey investors... even ESL wasn't that money hungry....
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