+1

I mostly he agree with this...he has done the job, but probably could've done it better.

On balance Pim has done a very good job and helped us to qualify for two major tournaments. He has shared his success with his players.

The successes haven't been achieved just because of Pim but nor have they been achieved in spite of him. The same will be the case whatever the result in South Africa.

Pim is a professional results oriented coach and we could have done much much worse. In a results sense, we could have done no better. In a tactical and stylistic sense, sure, we could have done better. But I'll take results any day, or at least until we have the broad and deep talent pool of countries like Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Spain, and Italy.

I have been against Pim since his signing (mainly because he is at best an assistant and as a 1st head manager role this one is too big for him). His Dutch style is boring, unimaginative and based soley on regurgatating the 2006 world cup squad (look at how long he worked on Dukes begging him to come back). HE has persisted with a one Striker upfront tactic even though Australai has always been better with multiple strikers and depth in Attacking Mids.
We are going top be spaded by the Germans and Serbians and I think the only game we are likely to win is against USA.

We are taking two strikers to the world cup and likely to interchange Kewell who is an attacking Winer more than Striker, plus a heavily stacked Mid Field where we are likely to move Attacking mids in to defensive mid roles and the worlds most broken and slow Centre Back in the world to boot.


So to sum up:
Old Slow Players
Blind following of Euro bench warmers over regular 11 and scorers in ASIA
No depth up front
No plan B
A team balancing on a Knifes edge of injury concerns
A lack of players with Flare
A defensive set style of play that does not inspire the Footballing public let alone the band wagoners
Has no need to do anything for the NT as he is already off to Morocco or the like to take a desk jockey job where his qualifications as a 1st team coach are not even questioned.

Why should I have faith in pim???

Glad to see the back of him

/rant

Carle had many chances and failed to take them. Both Burns and Spiranovic also were in the squad but didn't show themselves to be better than others in the squad so were dropped. That is what happens in football. Ognenovski and Bosnar are in a different category and I take your point on them.

Yes they can - Ognenovski, Carle, Bosnar, Spiranovic, N Burns, etc etc

All omitted because Pim doesn't even rate them enough to give them a chance (even more frustratingly so in Carle's case).

Pim was appointed in December 2007 and Australia had slipped in ranking from its post World Cup high to #43. The graph tells it all. From Day 1 we started to achieve results and climb to an all time high of #14 before settling in at #20. These results were gained despite regularly playing against teams with higher levels of skill and better preparation. The results with our #2 squad held us back and with our A-League squad generally took us backwards. With 4 weeks preparation and 3 Friendlies we are getting preparation for South Africa 2010 the likes of which we haven't had since 2006. We might not like the style that the Socceroos have played but we cannot question the results some of which have been outstanding. Time to get off Pim's back and acknowledge the work he has done in transforming a rabble into a solid team.

It is also worthwhile pointing out that this squad goes to South Africa without Aloisi, Lazaridis, Popovic, Skoko, Sterjovski, Thompson, Viduka, Kalac and Covic who were in the 2006 squad. Some big boots to fill there and under Pim many players have been given the chance to show they can fill them which is as it should be. Although we individually might have a preference for a player or two different in the squad, none of the players omitted can hold up their hand and say they weren't given a chance.

Sure, or maybe Miron eh? ;) ;) ;)

Funny, because I do remember a lot of people criticizing Lavicka for being overly defensive, unexciting, too predictable, etc.

A lot like what Pim is getting now.

And then when when SFC won, all the criticism disappeared like magic. Funny that.

[quote=afromanGT]The what-if monster is a dangerous one to break out. Must we really turn to that side of the conversation?[/quote

lol, most of the comment here is based on our failure at the World Cup which hasnt even happened yet! All of it is what if and apart from the ugly way we have been playing, nothing else is either correct or wrong. Just good spirited debate and passion for our team.

Sorry, I think you're right about Cahill. I think my point still stands, no matter which players you pick and who is managing them, our best 11 will be a fair way off where we were 4 years ago.

The 2006 team's acheivements are basically a win against Japan and a draw against Croatia. If we get 4 points like last time, you have to say we've outperformed expectations. If we get less, then I guess the debate will continue (although it won't really matter by then) because our squad is weaker than last time and the opposition is tougher, and he has got us through the WC and Asian Cup qualifying campaigns.

I admit it'd be nice to have more strikers or a plan B or that someone might have done a better job of it than Pim, I just don't think the difference in results would be that huge. Agree to disagree I guess.

Edited by road warrior: 26/5/2010 08:49:02 AM

The what-if monster is a dangerous one to break out. Must we really turn to that side of the conversation?

One fact is - Guys like Grella and co aren't like they were and that's too be expected - They are't going to be exactly the same as they were in 06, ofcourse they're aging, but also, they're known commodities now, unlike in 06! Guys like Grella too, have had very mixed club fortunes, post 06, making some questionable club moves to ill suited places like Blackburn. But thankfully guys like Kewell have sorted themselves out to the degree that their NT careers may be lengthened.

Guys like WC 06 squad members, Beauchamp, Kennedy, Milligan - they haven't kicked on as much as expected, though in recent times all have started to find their niche, or way back, again, thanks largely to the motivation of aspiring for the 2010 WC squad. Add to that the very mixed fortunes of other late bloomer-ish guys like North, Carney, Carle and co.

All those sorts of guys are the transitional players. And yeah, we may question the exclusion of guys like Ognenovski and Bosnar, but Bosnar made some very honest self assessments of his game, reflecting the realities of his scenario (He's only come really good, good form, this season). Ognenovski and Bosnar are bother older players too, so hardly players to take us forward much, towards 2014. But guys like Milligan ARE.

Sure maybe our playing stock could've played better in some games, but tbh, in others they probably couldn't have. Again travel, short turn arounds, playing conditions etc... people always seem to overlook mentioning these factors and those reasons contribute to why we may've struggled against Bahrain etc... Sure they are no excuse, but they've still a factor.

Infact, it's THOSE factors which saw Viduka handle his NT status the way he did. If it were ANOTHER one off Oceania Play off again, I bet you Dukes may've been involved? The long hard slog in this new frontier was NOT for everybody and it was a very new experience to our very naive NT set up, players included. Infact we have alot to thank Pim for, as we were relying on him ALOT simply due to his knowledge/experience of Asia, due to his extensive experience with South Korea (As Head Coach and Assistant to Hiddink and Advocaat).

Oh we're all soo wise now, after the fact, aren't we?

TBFH, with another coach, who knows how we may've gone over thse past 2 years? Maybe we would've blitzed it even more? Maybe we would've struggled more - maybe to the extent we may've had to change coaches? Maybe we would be forced to change coaches due whoever we chose pulling out due to health reasons (Like Parreira with South Africa)? Many of these elite international coaches are in their 50s and 60s, so health issues can be a big consideration, especially when one considers the big schedule/ask that is coaching far flung Australia in across the breadth of the far flung AFC, the biggest Football Confederation in the world. And let me throw in there - we weren't that HOT stuff, post Arnold, back in late 07, as evidenced by the behaviour of Dirty Dick, lest us forget Dirty Dick who screwed us.Oh sure, we're soo hot, everyone wants to coach us - reality check folks.

Maybe, with someone else, we would've, dare I say, failed to qualify?!

Edited by GloryPerth: 26/5/2010 12:43:11 AM

Probably an argument for another day, but the FFA are going to have to look for a new gaffer fairly soon given Verbeek has tendered his resignation.

Pim picked the squad that has NO striker depth, ignored Ognenovski, Bosnar and North in preference to Moore - who isn't even playing at State League level.

4 years ago Cahill wasn't picked to start because there were fitness concerns surroundign his return from operation.

When you've got four or five players who have been snubbed who are better options and the coach is incompetent I wholeheartedly believe this.

+1 Pim has his job because he's dutch. There have been and are plenty of more suitable more credentialled managers who we could have in the position. Hopefully the FFA has their head screwed on this time around.

Yeah didnt exactly have the Koreans playing dazzling football. Wouldnt have been opposed to him getting chopped and bringing someone in but that wouldnt be sending the greatest message to the next bloke we hire, might make pickings a bit slim.

Fuck oath it is.

No.

But this has been long-standing, and comes from the fact I think he was not the right choice at the time, and that we rushed into signing up someone just because they were Dutch with no regard to their record or credentials.

And we could have fixed it and brought someone better in, but we haven't, which is sad.

Carle, Vidosic, Oar, Ruka, Spira, and Rhys Williams should all be either starting or, in the attackers case, used as impact subs regularly in the cup - and Bosnar or Ognenovski should probably be starting at CB instead of Moore.

However - Pim's the boss at the moment and I hope for our sakes his one predictable plan comes off for us.

I'm not going to give up on us yet. Personally its the FFA who should be copping the flak for basically hiring a coach and the mandate he was given was qualify for World and Asian Cup at all costs and dont bother developing any new talent. He has done that and full credit to him and I will reserve judgement until the job is finished. Still I am hoping like hell we see a bit more from the players against the Danes and the Yanks.

Hope not tbh. Would like someone better at the helm if we could do it.

But people are overstating how much this is due to Pim. The playing group was much stronger at the last WC. For example 4 years ago Cahill was a 26 year-old playing at Everton, and wasn't picked to start in the opening game against Japan. Bresciano was also 26, doing great in Serie A, but only started in 2 of our 4 WC games. There were 7 EPL players alone in our best 11.

Saying that picking player A instead of player B is the difference between 'maybe beating England' and 'losing all 3 games without scoring' is just a bit over the top.

The line between a genius and a madman is very thin. Only time will tell and there is nothing we can do except strap in for the ride and cross our fingers!

Well that opens up a whole new can of worms there, probably for a different thread. But if the FFA do decide to look for a new manager, his efforts with Sydney will put him right up there.

+1 with this all the way. And hopefully we can find a more competent manager after the tournament too.

Hell, I think most people wouldn't mind Lavicka in the job.

With you 100%

Case Study: France v Raymond Domenech (442 World Cup Guide)
Public opinion of him in France is at an all time low. they believe he is not achieving the quality of football that the talent pool of the French national squad has the potential for. sounds very similar to us,
However do the French public not deserve a national football team?

No, they deserve a better manage (hopefully in Laurent Blanc)

+1 our squad looks so vulnerable, and as you say, Pim keeps selecting players in positions even though his system clearly isn't working. Selecting players that don't fit and using a system to execute a tactic that he simply doesn't have the players for. It's shooting us in the foot. I hav eno heistation in saying I'd rather have Farina back. And I thought I'd NEVER say that.

We deserve a national team coach who can get the side playing to the immense ability of its very tallented players. We don't have a coach who can do that. Hence the negativity.

We're worried and concerned about the state of our National Team. Nobody is saying they want us to get thumped, but we are expressing our concern that this may be the case.

You have to admit, it's not the most promising situation we are in.

Negative. F*cking. C*nts.

You don't deserve a national football team.

My sentiments exactly, if Schwarzer had not produced M.O.M performances continually during the qualifiers then we may not have even qualified. We've been wallpapering over the cracks for too long and I can see us falling in a big heap once the tournament begins.
Pim's stubborness both tactically and selection-wise will be our downfall, the system does not suit the players at his disposal yet he continues to stick with it. And no man in his right mind would select Craig Moore over Sash Ognenovski. An injury to Neill or Kennedy and we may as well start packing, I had so much optimism for the last WC....this time it's fear.

Yes, I firmly believe that we have the players with the ability to play suitable football to get us through the group if we had the right tactics. Macca playing WITH Kennedy up front and Cahill in behind is the way to go. But Pim doesn't know how to play attacking football.

Sorry but I think some people are over-reacting. If we fail in the group stage, even if you disagree with Pim does anyone really think a different line-up/formation would have got us through?

That said, it'll be good to see how a new coach goes after Pim is gone.

Bang on the money with this.