Probably an argument for another day, but the FFA are going to have to look for a new gaffer fairly soon given Verbeek has tendered his resignation.

Pim picked the squad that has NO striker depth, ignored Ognenovski, Bosnar and North in preference to Moore - who isn't even playing at State League level.

4 years ago Cahill wasn't picked to start because there were fitness concerns surroundign his return from operation.

When you've got four or five players who have been snubbed who are better options and the coach is incompetent I wholeheartedly believe this.

+1 Pim has his job because he's dutch. There have been and are plenty of more suitable more credentialled managers who we could have in the position. Hopefully the FFA has their head screwed on this time around.

One fact is - Guys like Grella and co aren't like they were and that's too be expected - They are't going to be exactly the same as they were in 06, ofcourse they're aging, but also, they're known commodities now, unlike in 06! Guys like Grella too, have had very mixed club fortunes, post 06, making some questionable club moves to ill suited places like Blackburn. But thankfully guys like Kewell have sorted themselves out to the degree that their NT careers may be lengthened.

Guys like WC 06 squad members, Beauchamp, Kennedy, Milligan - they haven't kicked on as much as expected, though in recent times all have started to find their niche, or way back, again, thanks largely to the motivation of aspiring for the 2010 WC squad. Add to that the very mixed fortunes of other late bloomer-ish guys like North, Carney, Carle and co.

All those sorts of guys are the transitional players. And yeah, we may question the exclusion of guys like Ognenovski and Bosnar, but Bosnar made some very honest self assessments of his game, reflecting the realities of his scenario (He's only come really good, good form, this season). Ognenovski and Bosnar are bother older players too, so hardly players to take us forward much, towards 2014. But guys like Milligan ARE.

Sure maybe our playing stock could've played better in some games, but tbh, in others they probably couldn't have. Again travel, short turn arounds, playing conditions etc... people always seem to overlook mentioning these factors and those reasons contribute to why we may've struggled against Bahrain etc... Sure they are no excuse, but they've still a factor.

Infact, it's THOSE factors which saw Viduka handle his NT status the way he did. If it were ANOTHER one off Oceania Play off again, I bet you Dukes may've been involved? The long hard slog in this new frontier was NOT for everybody and it was a very new experience to our very naive NT set up, players included. Infact we have alot to thank Pim for, as we were relying on him ALOT simply due to his knowledge/experience of Asia, due to his extensive experience with South Korea (As Head Coach and Assistant to Hiddink and Advocaat).

Oh we're all soo wise now, after the fact, aren't we?

TBFH, with another coach, who knows how we may've gone over thse past 2 years? Maybe we would've blitzed it even more? Maybe we would've struggled more - maybe to the extent we may've had to change coaches? Maybe we would be forced to change coaches due whoever we chose pulling out due to health reasons (Like Parreira with South Africa)? Many of these elite international coaches are in their 50s and 60s, so health issues can be a big consideration, especially when one considers the big schedule/ask that is coaching far flung Australia in across the breadth of the far flung AFC, the biggest Football Confederation in the world. And let me throw in there - we weren't that HOT stuff, post Arnold, back in late 07, as evidenced by the behaviour of Dirty Dick, lest us forget Dirty Dick who screwed us.Oh sure, we're soo hot, everyone wants to coach us - reality check folks.

Maybe, with someone else, we would've, dare I say, failed to qualify?!

Edited by GloryPerth: 26/5/2010 12:43:11 AM

The what-if monster is a dangerous one to break out. Must we really turn to that side of the conversation?

Sorry, I think you're right about Cahill. I think my point still stands, no matter which players you pick and who is managing them, our best 11 will be a fair way off where we were 4 years ago.

The 2006 team's acheivements are basically a win against Japan and a draw against Croatia. If we get 4 points like last time, you have to say we've outperformed expectations. If we get less, then I guess the debate will continue (although it won't really matter by then) because our squad is weaker than last time and the opposition is tougher, and he has got us through the WC and Asian Cup qualifying campaigns.

I admit it'd be nice to have more strikers or a plan B or that someone might have done a better job of it than Pim, I just don't think the difference in results would be that huge. Agree to disagree I guess.

Edited by road warrior: 26/5/2010 08:49:02 AM

[quote=afromanGT]The what-if monster is a dangerous one to break out. Must we really turn to that side of the conversation?[/quote

lol, most of the comment here is based on our failure at the World Cup which hasnt even happened yet! All of it is what if and apart from the ugly way we have been playing, nothing else is either correct or wrong. Just good spirited debate and passion for our team.

Sure, or maybe Miron eh? ;) ;) ;)

Funny, because I do remember a lot of people criticizing Lavicka for being overly defensive, unexciting, too predictable, etc.

A lot like what Pim is getting now.

And then when when SFC won, all the criticism disappeared like magic. Funny that.

Pim was appointed in December 2007 and Australia had slipped in ranking from its post World Cup high to #43. The graph tells it all. From Day 1 we started to achieve results and climb to an all time high of #14 before settling in at #20. These results were gained despite regularly playing against teams with higher levels of skill and better preparation. The results with our #2 squad held us back and with our A-League squad generally took us backwards. With 4 weeks preparation and 3 Friendlies we are getting preparation for South Africa 2010 the likes of which we haven't had since 2006. We might not like the style that the Socceroos have played but we cannot question the results some of which have been outstanding. Time to get off Pim's back and acknowledge the work he has done in transforming a rabble into a solid team.

It is also worthwhile pointing out that this squad goes to South Africa without Aloisi, Lazaridis, Popovic, Skoko, Sterjovski, Thompson, Viduka, Kalac and Covic who were in the 2006 squad. Some big boots to fill there and under Pim many players have been given the chance to show they can fill them which is as it should be. Although we individually might have a preference for a player or two different in the squad, none of the players omitted can hold up their hand and say they weren't given a chance.

Yes they can - Ognenovski, Carle, Bosnar, Spiranovic, N Burns, etc etc

All omitted because Pim doesn't even rate them enough to give them a chance (even more frustratingly so in Carle's case).

Carle had many chances and failed to take them. Both Burns and Spiranovic also were in the squad but didn't show themselves to be better than others in the squad so were dropped. That is what happens in football. Ognenovski and Bosnar are in a different category and I take your point on them.

I have been against Pim since his signing (mainly because he is at best an assistant and as a 1st head manager role this one is too big for him). His Dutch style is boring, unimaginative and based soley on regurgatating the 2006 world cup squad (look at how long he worked on Dukes begging him to come back). HE has persisted with a one Striker upfront tactic even though Australai has always been better with multiple strikers and depth in Attacking Mids.
We are going top be spaded by the Germans and Serbians and I think the only game we are likely to win is against USA.

We are taking two strikers to the world cup and likely to interchange Kewell who is an attacking Winer more than Striker, plus a heavily stacked Mid Field where we are likely to move Attacking mids in to defensive mid roles and the worlds most broken and slow Centre Back in the world to boot.


So to sum up:
Old Slow Players
Blind following of Euro bench warmers over regular 11 and scorers in ASIA
No depth up front
No plan B
A team balancing on a Knifes edge of injury concerns
A lack of players with Flare
A defensive set style of play that does not inspire the Footballing public let alone the band wagoners
Has no need to do anything for the NT as he is already off to Morocco or the like to take a desk jockey job where his qualifications as a 1st team coach are not even questioned.

Why should I have faith in pim???

Glad to see the back of him

/rant

On balance Pim has done a very good job and helped us to qualify for two major tournaments. He has shared his success with his players.

The successes haven't been achieved just because of Pim but nor have they been achieved in spite of him. The same will be the case whatever the result in South Africa.

Pim is a professional results oriented coach and we could have done much much worse. In a results sense, we could have done no better. In a tactical and stylistic sense, sure, we could have done better. But I'll take results any day, or at least until we have the broad and deep talent pool of countries like Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Spain, and Italy.

I mostly he agree with this...he has done the job, but probably could've done it better.

+1