Pretty much he said Pim should justify his tactics against Ghana to a panel of former socceroo captains who care for the shirt or take a flight straight to Morocco.



Edited by Joffa: 15/6/2010 07:52:57 PM

He did that last night as well. Closes his sports segment with a blast against Pim. :D I applaud Foz.

Well done Foz.

I know what i love about Fozz he has the balls to say what everyone else isnt either smart enouh or gutty enough!

Yea i heard it i hope Verbeek did if Kewell doesnt player why the hell are we there?

Love it Fozzie! :d

Did anyone tape it?

Please someone in WA tape it.

Guy on TWGF is recording it now, will post Youtube links later.

They have got to get Pim vs Fozzie on SBS, it will put the Ange vs Fozzie classic to shame.

I wonder which former Socceroos captains Fozz thinks have current practical knowledge of how football is played internationally now. Maybe Dukes.

Anyone just watch the world cup show? It got pretty heated talking about what went wrong and why.

Also alot of talk about fractions appearing in the Socceroos camp, apparently some players unhappy (Don't like the sound of that unless they tell Pim to get fucked and go out and play like they feel they should)

Kalac on PTI australia now

Kalac said.

"The A-League is great but where are our juniors"?

In the last ten years we haven't qualified for Under 17 and Under 19 World Cups. I don't want to name names but our coaching isn't up to it."

Kalac is bang on the money, the A-League has failed to produce one starting eleven player for Australia in five long years.

Kalac also said.

"all you hear about are Neill, Cahill and Schwarzer. What about Emerton, Bresciano, Grella and even Kewell...these guys aren't being treated with the respect their deserved."(or words to that effect.)

He didn't bag the A-League, in fact the opposite, he bagged player development and junior coaching...and I suspect he took a big swipe at Ange.

And rightly so.

Kalac is a whanker and a gambler. I've known him for years.

Craig Johnston also went of like a fire cracker suggesting we should resort to Wimbledon tactics as it's the Australian way...

Edited by Joffa: 15/6/2010 08:26:19 PM

I don't think you will get much spin off in player quality from the existence of the A-League until the 5 and 6 year olds that were attracted to the game by our 2006 qualification and held in the game by the A-League come through the ranks. We have another 5-10 years minimum to wait. We are paying now for the slow death of football between 1998 and 2004.

what world cup show is this? santo and those guys?

Yeah I saw it, but if it's coming to that, shouldn't they have the balls to sack him, and take charge, so that at least someone will take responsibilty for our performance in the Ghana game?


Isn't this part of the problem with Foster's suggestion? Foster claearly disagreed with Craig here. If someone is going to overrule Pim, how will anyone agree on who it should be?

I saw it too. Dig in Foz :lol:

^^^This, my friend, is a stupid comment.

In terms of the A-league producing it's own talent, that means it will come the the NYL. How many years has the youth league been around? Two seasons...

In two years, you expect a player to go from youth league level to international level?

That takes 5-7 years (given players play at youth league level at about 17 yrs of age).

Players in the WC squad (of 31) who have played in the A-league...

Oar, Galekovic, Vidosic, Rukavytsya, Moore, Carney, Beauchamp, Milligan, Culina, Jedinak, Carle, North.

How many of those players will be around for the next WC???

Oar, Galek, Vid, Ruka, Carney, Beauch, Mill, Culina, Jed, Carle, North.

The majority of youth in our WC squad has come through the A-league... in five 'long' years.

It angers me when comments like yours are posted, when obviously you are not well informed.

Edited by anth: 15/6/2010 08:43:07 PM

Kalac is the biggest peanut ever.The only ones who makes sense is Foster and Zelic

I have never agreed with Fozz's sentiment more...not so sure about the panel of Socceroo captains though.



Edited by Joffa: 15/6/2010 08:43:33 PM

So what are the A-League franchises doing about it?
Starting up their own academies and junior development programs? Or just continuing to fleece the state league clubs?

And how many of those were produced by A-League franchises?

Zilch.

FUCK ME!!!!

Get over trashing the Socceroos. We lost to a football powerhouse. SO WHAT!! We expected it.

I respect Fosters passion for the game, but before you turn off every supporter who is not into the game as much as you, stop bagging the shit out of our national team.

I back Verbeek over Foster any day. Its easy to be an armchair critic. Its much more difficult to qualify for a World Cup top of Asia, and its a shitload more difficult to play Germany in a World Cup game.

But good on you Foster for bagging out our national team and jumping on the easy option. A true football supporter stands strong and realises that we are still in a good position in the tournament and have a 50% chance of a result against Ghana, and hence keeping alive our hopes on making the final 16 in the game played by all.

Did people hear Bosnichs attack on Neill and Pim when he said the capatain and the manager shouldnt be coming out before the game in a press conference and saying Germany a alotm better then us and more superior and there palyers play in a better comps.I tghought it was stupid to not a good look and you give the oppoents a edge as they know and your admiting they a better then you.You dont see Nth Korea say that against Brazil or New Zealand etc.This wouldnt happen under Hiddink and he said in a article last week dont show the germans no respect.

What the hell? Since you obviously cbf'd learning anything before posting... here are some links for you...

Players who started their professional career in the A-league:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Oar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikita_Rukavytsya

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dario_Vidosic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mile_Jedinak

Others:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Milligan (played previously for Northern Spirit, made his name at Sydney FC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Galekovi%C4%87 (given he played for South Melbourne in the NSL, went overseas and was unsuccessful, then returned upon the start of the A-league and has gone from strength to strength.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Carney (after his success as a youth o/s faltered he returned to the A-league, improved and moved o/s)

Kalac was talking Under 17 and Under 19 FFS! Kalac said the A-League is good and not the problem. He also said he was blaming the coaches not the players.

[youtube]MpVt-McR1dY[/youtube]
[youtube]Qfj3f_DuSRg[/youtube]

Edited by Joffa: 15/6/2010 09:39:16 PM

You won't see Nth Korea in any press conference full stop :p

I think there is a lack of unity within our squad. Hiddink managed to bring us all together and it seems as though Pim's efforts have disjointed us to an extent.

He's right about the latter bit. But the former, it's nobody's place to make a coach justify their tactics.

He was never a good coach, I've been saying this for years. And though Fozz is saying this for his own agenda, it's about time someone more public made the point too that he's a terrible coach and shouldn't be anywhere near our team.

They were simply stating the obvious. All Neill said was taht we were up against it and always will be playing a team that's won the competition three times.

It's all well and good to pay out on the lads for the result. But honestly, how many of you out there genuinely thought we'd beat the Germans? They're just THAT good. And better teams than australia have lost by a bigger margin to the Germans. They played excellent football and it was to be expected that we'd get our arses handed to us. Especially with old, slow defenders like Moore and Chipperfield having to combat pacey youngsters like Podolski and Muller. It could have been far worse.

Anyone know where I can watch this video??

Produced. Do you not understand what this word means?

Tommy Oar: Palm Beach Sharks product.
Dario Vidosic: Queensland Lions product.
Mile Jedinak: Sydney United product.

etc.

jmars, how many EPL clubs PRODUCED english players?

Just about every player comes up from a lower tier. But these players are developing in the A-League is the crux of anth's presentation.

Yeah, but they actually have junior academies whether anyone actually makes it from there.

And the answer is West Ham.
Jog on.

Oh and EDIT: Syd U was in the top level of Australian football when Jedinak was a junior.



Edited by jmars: 15/6/2010 09:34:41 PM

Verbeek has just gotten smashed in the news...
I seriously hope he hasnt had the time to get the cable up yet :lol:

It is a mute point trying to say a player was playing in the NSL or A-League, as the National Competitions, of different eras it was still the clubs with junior infrastructure and the relevant State Junior Coaches, State Institute Coaches, AIS Coaches and elite development pathways that determined the quality players produced.

Some have liked to point the finger at Ange Postecoglou as at fault, but in the junior development process he was the end of the line. Before they got to him they where at the AIS coached by Steve O'Connor, or in my State's case at the VIS coached by Merrick or Greener. Before they got there they where coached by the relevant State Coaches. Before that the Junior Coaches at junior Clubs.

Through the 1970's, 1980's and early 1990's for some reason we (Australia) started to develop local talent that turned the tide against 1imported players.[In the 1970's teams where made up solely of British players from the lowest divisions in the UK]We started producing players better than what we could import.

We have shown that we can produce quality players of the highest calibre, we just cannot do it quantitavely and consistently. More so in the late 1990's through to now. Something is broken, something is not working. Bringing in the Dutch Coaches has changed the dynamics with Han Berger at National Director, Jan Versleijen at the AIS and I beleive Qld has a Dutch Director of Coaching. Also the coaching certification brought in by our joining the AFC has meant better coaching certification and content. The appointment of Alfred Galustian as consultant to the FFA in developing a National skills curriculum and training the Skill Acquisition coaches (of which there is only one in Victoria) is a major breakthrough. But I think we (grassroots) need more.

I personally beleive we need more coaches of the calibre of Berger and Versleijen accesable to the grassroots. Rather than spend $6MIl on a national coach I wish theyd spend only a third and spend the other two thirds on better coaches at the NTC levels, skill Acquisition coaches and state directors of coaching. Ones accessable to grassroot volunteer coaches, with mentoring and demonstrative sessions.
The FFA will soon be starting their junior clinics that are free for selected talented junior players in every state. This cannot happen soon enough.

One thing is for sure we need more support at grassroots level, and we have to be patient this will not happen overnight.

[youtube]Qfj3f_DuSRg[/youtube]

So one club...that's been around for 115 years is the only one to have produced players for England from the ground up.

In australia you've got to remember that the A-League hasn't really been around long enough to develop these players at the A-League clubs alone. These kids have to have been playing for other clubs previously. By the next world cup we should start to see these players who have been produced by A-League clubs coming up. But the thing is, we have a great grass roots development system in place, finding the best talent from state league football and bringing it to the national level and that's by no means relevant to the problem at hand of a moronic coach.

Linking your interpretation of 'produced' back to the initial quote by Rips Chafferty... how are the A-League franchises supposed to have developed players through academies in 5 years?

+1

My problem with Foster's rant is taht he says that when the team sheet came out, we should have been asking questions as to what the hell he was doing with the selections. And then goes on to say "there's nothing wrong with the players."

Pick an argument and stick to it mate. Yeah, you're right, Pim is shitting on the shirt. But your argument is all wrong and about as organized as australia's defence.

I think he is saying that the players were out of position. The selection of the positions, not the players themselves

=d> =d> =d>

Well yeah, players were out of position. But that's irrelevant when the biggest problem was that we didn't have an organised defence and weren't willing to move the ball forward of the halfway line anyway.

You mean where I said this?



Maybe you can answer the question as to why the A-League franchises aren't concerned with youth development?

Which coach in the world on $6MIL would accept a panel of ex National Team Captains telling him what he can and cannot do?

jmars, your contention is irrelevant. The A-League franchises are concerned with development. But there's only been a national youth competition for three years. You need to give it [size=9]TIME.[/size]

Which coach in the world on $6MIL is in the same position of getting annihilated by Germany, playing shit football, has been for three years and still inexplicably hasn't been sacked?

Exactly.

FFS. I'm not saying what you think I'm saying. The other poster brings up a salient point. I'm expanding upon it, because it's worth saying. But, I'm not saying what you think I am.
Please. Stop. Actually read what I wrote and answer this question.

Are there any A-League franchises with a junior academies?
If not, what plans are there to develop academies?

Then consider that it's cheaper to pay $3000 dollars to a club, one that is forced to accept that amount through the administration of the game, than it is to spend tens of thousands of dollars finding young potentials, training them and developing them into senior footballers.

By there very nature NYL do not produce players.

When a player arrives at 17 he has two years in the NYL, when he arrives at 18 he has one year. They are only playing against players of similar physical and technical abilities. The exceptional ones would be in the senior squads any way. By the time they are 19yo they have to leave and make way for the new players. Physiologically and mentally most are generally not ready for Senior Football (If anyone was at the FFA Coaching conference refer to Dr. Raymond Verheijen).

It (NYL) will not develop players.

To develop players the A-League needs an open reserve league or spice things up and put a reserves team in the State Leagues. The match intensity will be high enough to develop players.

Nice one:lol: but it still doesn't alter the issue Foster is asking for a process that oversee's the coach. A coach who commands $6Mil would not accept that and we end up with a second, third, or fourth choice again except we pay more.

But are there any plans in the piepline to do this?

Gee... Two contentions for two different arguments. The first comment (above) is in response to anth's comments, the second is in response to Joffa's comment... not related.

1. Anth has gave his response based on one interpretation of the word 'produced' (OMG, words can have more than one meaning) ie. that the A-League clubs once had players that have since started/featured for the Socceroos (in opposition to Rips Chafferty's point that they hadn't). You've lambasted him based on another interpretation of the word.

2. Your second quote was in response to Joffa, whose contention was completely different to anth's.

Reconcile points 1 and 2 and you can see why I asked what I did ie. how are the a-league franchises supposed to have had academies and developing kids within their respective businesses' early years (when they aren't even turning a profit).

It has to be a step-by-step transition from grass-roots to academy football. And it's a work in process. The thing is, you don't want to make the sudden change and have extremely talented kids slip through the cracks.

Right now, we've got a system that should be filtering out the best of the youngsters in the state leagues and capitalising on this, bringing them to national level.

The clubs should be working closely with Ajax in an effort to emulate their structures. But that's not to say we should be giving up on Grass Roots development.

But of course, you need to remember that Verbeek was our third choice to begin with after we were snubbed by both Klinsmann and Advocaat.

You're right, you can't have a board selecting the teams, you're right. This isn't early 20th century football. Pim shouldn't have to justify his decisions to anyone. It's very simple, if he doesn't get the results, sack him. That's all there is to it. And for three years now he hasn't been getting adequate results and I can't understand why he's still here.

Back on topic guys.

I think Fozz was just showing his national pride. But I think it's a bit rich to call for Pim's head if his team sheet isn't approved by a comittee. A bit silly really - like state level club politics.

+1 And that's why passion has its place...but calm heads usually prevail...not apathetic pricks like Verbeek

Seeing how you are so interested in speaking for these people, I'll ask you why he was wrong about Jedinak starting his professional career in the A-League. Go on, little buddy, ask your big brother why he was wrong.

You simply can't claim that A-League have produced any of these players, even the ones who begun their senior career in the A-League because that's not where players develop. My learned friend Arthur can back me up on that.

How is it different? Did I ever say that the A-League clubs should have produced someone at this WC? No, that was said by someone else. It just conveniently fits the narrative youhave built for yourself.

One thing that the players will always do is give 100%, there's no doubt about that. Whether they're the right players (from those available, of course), the formation and system they play, the organisation - that is ALL the coaches fault.

The fact is that they were NOT the right players in the right positions.

I don't like the way Foz goes about himself, he has a short temper and just snaps. That's why he says stupid stuff like suggesting some kind of panel yada yada. That comes BEFORE the coach is appointed, not at the World Cup. A coach, once in the position, needs to know that they're supported. Whether it's good or shit is something we have to live with at that point unfortunately. The f*ck up on FFAs behalf came when they appointed him.

You and me both.

It's only grass roots football now because of what's come before it. Sydney United, Marconi... fuck... pick... any former NSL club... they all developed their own juniors. They continue to develop juniors. They're called -wait for it- junior teams. They were set up to get the players to go from junior football to senior football. They used to bear all the financial burden of finding players. The ones that slipped through the cracks did so because of the scope of development and the administration of the league.

I think it's offensive to assume that the State League clubs exist to bring players to the national level. You are right that this is view of the FFA, but it's an unjust situation that exploits these clubs- and not just former NSL clubs either. The clubs exist as their own financial and historical entities, to play football at their highest level. The onus isn't on the state league to prop up the A-League.

Edited by jmars: 15/6/2010 10:43:12 PM

Agree re foz. I'd equate foz's regular critical comment to a political party in opposition. They can say what they like, criticise all they like and make ridiculous claims all they like and they will still not be called to act upon their rhetoric while not in power. Fozzie can always be the worlds #1 coach with unsurpassed knowledge, experience and ability, all from the comfort of a chair and well aware he will never be forced to back up his rhetoric with action.

If Craig Moore's performances are him giving 100% then he needs to give up and get himself a zimmer frame. He's not up to it anymore no matter how hard he tries. And I don't believe they're giving 100% because they've lost confidence in Verbeek and now don't believe in his tactics. And with good reason.

Of course they weren't the right players in the right positions. Playing Cahill up front so we were effectively playing 4-6-0 (which I said we'd play against the Germans back when the draw came out) was not the answer and made us look worse than if we actually had a target up front. It also would have meant that Cahill wasn't being constantly targetted by Badsturber and probably wouldn't have been sent off.

I don't like Foster's approach either. He thinks he's the godfather of australian football. 'The Boss' if you will. But he's not nearly objective enough and isn't willing to listen to reason. His temper gets in the way of rationality as you see in the video and he fails to take into account (as I've pointed out) that better teams have been made to look worse by Germany and it could have been far, far worse if it weren't for the players selected giving their all, bar Moore who looked more interested in setting up a picnic rug somewhere around the penalty spot.

The FFA made a shocking mistake in appointing Verbeek, and I'd go so far as to say that Farina was a better coach. Verbeek's incompetence has set australian football back 10 years and we need a superb performance from a quality coach in the asian cup to make up fot this. Anything less than the semi finals will be an abysmal failure.

That's not the point here. But regardless of that, as we've said the league simply isn't old enough to be producing players yet. The clubs need to be in financial positions to set up the academies you talk about to develop these players. This kind of money is going to have to come from the FFA and it's going to take another decade to establish. And then another decade to bear fruits. But we're half-way there now with the NYL developing and players like Gan, Kruse, Zullo, Oar and Langerak coming to the fore and moving overseas, these players are moving through the system and it's starting to bring rewards.

In 2 yrs Pim has been in the job he hasnt even developed one player in our team.Look under Hidink Wilkshire camed out a better player Emerton etc.

In some regards you're right, but the most important thing for the FFA is keeping these state league clubs involved in the development and football in general in the country though. They do invest a lot of money in the sport and as long as there are players from these clubs playing in the national team, you can't ignore the fact that in introducing academies you're going to suddenly crush the (now) main purpose for the existance of state league teams.

Probably the smartest thing Fozz has ever said.

"We will always die on our feet rather than live on our knees. That's the Australian way"

Gotta say, that sums it up perfectly.

It's also why football has struggled so much in this country. If we want the general Aus public to enjoy and follow football then we have to play the way Australians will be proud. This game was not a proud moment, not because we lost, but the way we lost.

By the same token, in qualifying we won but it was HOW we won, winning poorly, that was the problem.

http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/video/267367/Socceroos-panel-chat-pt-1/

http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/video/267372/Socceroos-panel-chat-pt-2

The players were given the day after the German game off? What the?

Les - "Pim needs to forget about the Science Fiction."

I read somewhere they were back at training within 12 hours of the game..and there was footage of them training on TV.

Foz suggestions are those of a peanut...and 4 days before a must win game at the absolute highest level.

Edited by AndyRoo: 16-6-2010 12:00:36 오전

According to an interview today, the team jet had problems and didn't arrive at camp till 9am the following day. Bit hard to train when awake all night. Not that they would have as for obvious reasons it's normal practice to have a light recovery day following a game.

Edited by skeptic: 16/6/2010 12:03:41 AM

Footage of them training on tv was probably a file tape. After that performance I'd be training the lads behind closed doors.

Foster has always picked the worst times to attack people. And although it was certainly heartfelt it was rather unwise IMO.

Hmm well Fozz has gone on about that panel idea of his for ages and yeah, it's driven inpart by his hardly concealed PFA kind of agenda bias. Even though he wasn't great, it was still good when Branko Culina was an analyst with SBS' coverage, because he helped balance out the perspective with he being a coach. Foz has and will never likely be, an elite level coach. And not that, that is necessary when it comes to being a 'football analyst,' I can certainly appreciate the perspective of former elite coaches (Ange ASIDE), when the comes to football analysis.

Anyway, there certainly appear to be some chronic things wrong, but again, I also agree with those who say not to blow this too out of proportion. Germany and that 'red card' certainly exacerbated our weaknesses. We could all see why Verbeek chose to move onto Morocco, to run their 'youth set up' of all roles (rather than a senior role - Eric Gerets, a guy who would've made an ace Socceroos coach candidate, is their senior NT's coach). He even suggested the pressure was alot.

Interesting, I remember hearing and even noticing how Verbeek is certainly more a 'player's coach' if that makes sense. Certainly he's quite a departure from the Hiddink style, when it comes to managing the playing staff. Schwarzer has certainly flourished during the qualification period, perhaps thanks inpart due to the assurance over his place given by Verbeek (Unlike Hiddink who played he and Kalac off against each other and that infamous switch for the Croatia game). Interesting though, in recent times how Schwarzer suggested Hiddink was some what conciliatory with him, when they met in the EPL, though it's easy too after the fact (One wonders if Hiddink would do any different in hindsight, and perhaps with Kalac's mistake, yeah, though that aside, unlikely). Verbeek's approach in this area has also seen us sway some youngsters back into our NT fold, guys like Rhys Williams, Dario Vidosic and Shane Lowry. His approach also tolerated Viduka's long stalling over his NT future, where surely a Hiddink more disciplinarian like character would've forced Dukes' hand alot sooner.

Qualification was one thing, but this WC camp/lead up has been somewhat of a contrast - Prep under Hiddink was like a fortress and things were tight and quiet. It was like 'Bootcamp Hiddink.' And player comments to the media were all quite restricted/limited at their isolated location. But under Verbeek we've had problems with our training base and have very publically seen our side's change in tactical approach against the Dutch and US, which has been somewhat concerning, especially when the US punished us for it. Now granted South Africa is NO Germany when it comes to facilities, so we can't help that soo much, but the players have been making comments and Pim has, and not to mention all our comments about 'the ball,' especially from Schwarzer and co, POST that US loss. One reflects if such excuse making etc... blame on the ball, would've been allowed during Camp Hiddink? That's kind of hindsight of me though, as I was taking that all for granted and just hoping for the best, come Germany, even despite the concerning performances against NZ and the US especially.

I suppose as Pim himself has kind of suggested, we still have two games to pull that rabbit from the hat - we certainly need to, to get the six points. But I must get this out of the way now - Harry this, Harry that! Harry alone will not save us - but having him in there will certainly help! Throw Kennedy in there too and sort out that left side (Don't have Culina on the left flank!).



In regards to the off topic discussion over developing talent - There's nothing wrong with the State League clubs producing talent who then go onto the A-League - Infact it's natural and to be encouraged, it's part of the player development pathway and it's the very point of the A-League. What should the players just stay in the State League, should they leave straight from State League to Europe (Like some do)?

The only matter of dispute in that regard in the level of compensation and yes, that flat $3k compensation fee probably needs adjustment for purposes of fairer compensation.

Edited by GloryPerth: 16/6/2010 12:45:21 AM

So by produced you mean that an A-league club should be the "first" club they have played for? The A-league has been around for five years, most professional footballers start playing football at about the age of 6. Hence, by my math, for the A-league to officially "produce" a player by your stringent standards, we should have an 11 year old playing for the Socceroos. Since we don't, the A-league has failed.

Let me justify my interpretation of produced...

Who the fuck was Oar, Jedinak, Vidosic, Ruka etc before they played in the A-league?

Indeed. Produced could have possibly been interchanged with Developed.
Still, this saga is a good example of the issues with language in electronic forms.

To be competely honest, no football club has ever "produced" a player, their parents do the producing... matter of fact I wouldn't mind doing some producing right now.

Its 9.30 in the morning:shock:

...I'm a morning person!

Half an hour, not bad :P:lol:

Agree with this 100%

With regard to the team not training the day afterwards, I believe they had an afternoon/evening training session, but most of the day was wiped out because they only left to go back to their training camp at 6am due to a problem with their private jet.

I'm no fan of Pim's but this is clearly something out of his control.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....this has got to be the stupidist thing i have ever read...

1) so its fine to go in there expecting to lose, who gives a shit that we lost, we expected it. hey let them score 6 goals why not, we dont expect to win.

worst fucking attitude ever.

2) losing 4-0 is going to turn off every supporter.

3) well arent you dumb. backinga guy who just lost 4-0 over a guy who is making the most sense right now.

4) yeah, we qualified top of asia, but lets face it, the opposition were crap quality. we got shown for what we are and have been under verbeek against germany. we could easily have lost more games in qualifying but we played weak opposition.

i respect foster for saying this. its right, pim has messed us up and set us back.

Aside from Australia, two Asian nations won and the other lost due to a freak goal to Brazil, which is a further indictment on Pim's tactics at the World Cup.

West Ham was just one answer.

You have heard of Paul Scholes, David Beckham, The Neville brothers, Nicky Butt, Wes Brown ? All came through the Man Utd Academy.

As for Foz, he is paid to be a pundit on SBS and does a very good job. Witness all you people scrambling for links.

=d> =d> =d> =d> =d>

=d> =d> =d> Agree 100%. With all this panicking, no wonder the FFA are having trouble finging a replacement coach. Must be the toughest Coaching job ever trying to please a country full of experts.

And Les, Okon. Kimon is good too but he was better in the Lion King.

I've been thinking about the good performances of Japan and South Korea too, and it definitely puts our's in perspective. To that you can add NZ's performance. Three different styles, but all better results. It is indeed an interesting comparison.

But I don't agree with your negativity about the youth coming through the A-League.

The difference between Australia and the other Asian Countries in the WC, along with NZ, is belief. NZ's coach did not slag off their local league and has them play an attacking style. Contrast that with Verbeek who is quick to label players as 'absolutely hopeless', demeans the A-League as rubbish and plays the most negative football imaginable. South Korea and Japan also have belief and a positive attitude, and the results have come for them.

In short, Australia's lack of success is due to Verbeek's negativity and his lack of belief that Australia can play attacking football and match it with the best. That sort of attitude produces shitty results, and it's deserving - we deserve the thrashing result we got for hiring a negative clown like Verbeek

From what I can tell, there is a rift in the camp but it is about a few players personalities, nothing whatsoever to do with Pim or his tactics. I think we will hear about this after the World Cup and it will explain a lot but now is not the time to dig it up, it just has to be managed as best as possible. That is what the coach is doing. I am sure that he is best placed to deal with it, not us armchair critics or passionate football analysts and he is dealing with problems that we know nothing about from the outside.

As for Fossie's outburst, well I haven't been able to view it yet but I have read it's content.
I respect his passion & knowledge for Australian football but in this case his heart has overuled his head.

We all know what message it sends when you get the opposition fighting among themselves. Well, it's not a good look & you know that you have got them beaten. Think about international squads that regularly implode, Holland, some of the Balkan states, well do we want that to be us?
Only nutcases sack coaches mid tournament. We are better than that, we need to stick it out & show faith.
After the World Cup is over we can re-assess & learn from our mistakes & make decisions for the future.
I am pretty sure that if another nation did what Fossie advocated then he would look down his nose at them and think they were crackpots.
We picked a coach, let him do his job.

I agree with Fossie though re our players,( other than Moore ). They are good enough to do well there but they simply did not do their jobs properly the other night against Germany. They will bounce back & regroup but the loss was mainly the players fault, not the coach. Forget the last 2 goals, the game was lost at 2 - 0 when Cahill got himself sent off . At that stage there was no point bringing on Kewell or even Kennedy. He brought on our two most mobile players, Holman & Ruka to run & chase & cover ground to make up for only having 10 men.

We only had 3 players that played okay, Emerton was our best. We can't beat Germany playing with 10 men for half a game when we are already 2 - 0 down. Germany played better than any other team so far & they have had months of practice with the Adidas Jabalani balls. Has any other team got their shots on target like the Germans? No.

Germany would have beaten any other team in that game. Other Asian teams have done okay 1st up but who have they played? No-one like Germany, our results will pick up & so will our play. The other Asian teams will drop off when they come up against top quality opposition.

Looks like this is where the problem commenced and we are paying for it now

A coach that can shape what we have now coming through is important. I keep coming back to Troussier. Whoever it is needs to show well at the Asian Cup and qualify us again for Brasil.

The amount of people in the past few days saying, no worries, we'll be better in Brasil 2014 have no idea. They think qualification is automatic, we'll be lucky to qualify with the resurgence of the West Asian teams that is pending.