I meant agent.

thats not that bad, had a player on 6 week trial, bust wrist after 2 weeks and got binned .

[/quote]

all they have to do is man up and tell the truth, don't get me worng there are plenty who are great but, there's nothing worse for a player to be hanging on lies.....

we had a recognised agent, it's only after it goes to shite that pther players fess up, they don't want to share agent's as they see it as competition for the same position...

Yes.

Coached Metro Reps.

Won a Sydney under 12 championship (Adam Kwasnik was in the team) from multiple attempts.

Coached youth teams at Blacktown, NSWPL club.

Coached fat geriatrics. I'm not sure what coaching role he had when he won a national geriatric title as a player in 2009?

Qualified as Youth coach under Soccer Australia in the nineties under Kelly Cross. It would have elapsed about four years later.

Some time recently failed FFA refresher course under Norm Boardman.

Two other of his other prodigies have been Shane Cansdell-Sheriff and Hayden Foxe.





Edited by Decentric: 5/12/2011 06:50:20 PM

[/facepalm]

Clueless.

Sorry, don't understand that.

As previously mentioned, most aussies (playing in Australia) don't require an agent. If player has missed out on selection for Joeys, U20's, NYL, he simply needs to make a name for himself in a top tier state league. If he manages to 'own' the league he will have HAL clubs knocking on his door.

sounds good in theory, but reality is vastly different

Sorry Skeptic, maybe he didn't coach Kwasnik, C-S and Foxe after all?

He failed his FFA refresher course under Norm Boardman (Dutch revised curriculum) and passed under Kelly Cross in the nineties (with a direct British style orientation). The technical content threw him out.:-k

Judy is the first person I've heard of to fail a Youth Licence.

I've known a few who've had to do their Senior Licence exam again.

Elite level juniors in the strongest comp in the strongest football state. Sounds more than reasonable.



Again, at the highest level in the most competitive football city in the country. Obviously plenty of experience if 'multiple attempts'. Sounds more than reasonable. (i remember someone saying something about juniors not being about winning, but enjoyment and development?)



A very successful nswpl and former NSL club at arguably the highest youth league level in the country, behind only aleague youth. Sounds more than reasonable, particularly if for an extended period. 99% of youth coaches will never coach at state league level in either youth or seniors, let along at a strong club in arguably the strongest state league in the country. Reasonable?



I have no idea what you are talking about and what fat geriatrics in a national geriatric title is, but it sounds like a school yard attempt at a put down of whatever it happens to be. It doesn't serve you well. Kinda like your accusations of Judge Judy. Reasonable?



I gained my first trade qualifications in the mid 70's. Should i feel inferior or very experienced with bags of knowledge in the field? Sorry, i have no idea of the logic.



If correct, that would put him the company of a handful of state league coaches i've known over the years who had to complete the course a second time before passing. Judge Judy is obviously far from silly in spite of her distinct lack of a sunshine demeanour and snappy bedside manner (kinda like myself, at times) and if what you say is correct, obviously very experienced in elite junior/youth level at one of the highest levels in the country, so I presume your not trying to insinuated she wasn't bright, knowledgeable or experienced enough to pass. Reasonable?

So, all the put downs, giggling and refusal to acknowledge that type of experience are for what reason? Tit for tat? What's good for the goose is good for the gander? I have to say, decentric, if your experience is half of that which you describe above and at a level that's even close, you are doing pretty damn well.
Reasonable?

Not to fail a current FFA Youth Licence.

If you look at the aforementioned coaching licences I've listed in another post, it is a community licence, not an advanced course. The advanced courses are the ones the state league coaches would/should have been doing.

Judy has attended no revised FFA curriculum courses (KNVB based) and been successful. That is not to say he is incapable of being successful, but it may be a reason he hates the Dutch and KNVB so much.

Old guard Soccer Australia coaching courses involved a lot of shouting and ad hoc training methodology.

Now there should be comprehensive match analysis and distinct ages and stages for imparting which curricula at what ages through building blocks in courses.
There is also four stage training ground practice. This was not an integral part of past courses.

I hope and Believe to be true that jude free akk chips is not a blazer
He has had the same consistent opinions since his first post.
Even if i totally disagree with him.

For me that gives him more credibility than some state coaches ie Paul lonton who voice a different opinion based on who is in ear shot of them.Or worse still have no opinion.

Just my opinion.

but i still think jude free is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5XnpK5Hzo0

=d> =d> =d> =d> =d>





Edited by krones3: 5/12/2011 08:07:55 PM

You asked me to delineate his coaching background.

I did.

If this is as good as you say it is, why has Judy retired as a coach?

Getting positions as a coach can often involve acts of nepotism or cronyism. If one is appointed to teams with better players than the opposition, success is more probable.

Judy says he is wanted as a paid coach for A League clubs when he has failed a FFA Youth Licence.](*,)

Most posts he enters on 442 forum involve put downs of whoever he is discussing an issue with. Yet when methodological issues in coaching and tactics have been discussed, he has been unusually diffident to proffer alternative perspectives, particularly when Ron Smith and Gregory Parker were making contributions in Performance.:-k

It seems to me the behaviour is attributable to being overlooked, or sensing a fear of failure. Or feeling like Judy is unwanted by a more methodological regime of coaching.

True what you say. I subscribe to coaching all levels below 20 as 'development'.

Judy subscribes to judging by 'results' from an early age. He is a failed coach according to his own criteria for appraising coaches, not mine.:)

He may have a future with coaching in veterans' football. Judy wouldn't have to meet strict criteria (if it is applied, not cronyism) being mandated for elite coaching positions around Granville/Blacktown.

One may ask who appointed Judy to supposedly 'elite' coaching positions earlier in his career? What criteria did they use to appoint coaches?
Results?
Development of players?

The latter can often only be evaluated accurately over a sustained period. Maybe that criterion was used and there has been a consensus that Judy, and coaches in younger and older teams, weren't producing long term players of a desired quality?:-k

Not from my experience.

Put the form on the park at PL level and options will appear.

No, you told me of his experiences. One only needs a knowledge of the clubs and comps you mentioned to know it's a very high level. Why did you retire as a teacher and why does anyone else retire? Why did i retire from my first profession or second? Do we all require an explanation and if we don't have an acceptable one, others can then point the finger and say, "I told ya so!"?

Decentric, please give us credit for a little more common sense and awareness before attempting something like this.
You're now attempting to denigrate the experience by throwing accusations of nepotism around like mud and trying to plant doubt in people's minds by suggesting the appointment to those positions was possibly undeserving. Not a good look, mate, not a good look.

You don't serve yourself well by refusing to give credit where it's due and stomping your feet with stubbornness as you have in your last post. You are mimicking the behaviour you claim of Judge Judy and don't appear to be aware of it.

As i commented previously, if you have half that experience at anywhere near that level, you're doing pretty damn well.

Sigmund, the only exam I've ever failed is Religious Studies In Year 7.

Why do you persist in telling porkies?

Why? what was the question?

That is a spurious indeed to draw a nexus between retiring from a full time profession and retiring from a hobby. One involves five day a week commitment as well as night work.

The other requires a lot less commitment and energy.

Judy was never a full time coach deriving his principle income from football.

Then how about you ask me why I no longer fish when i once did at every opportunity. Ask me why I no longer participate in motor racing like i once did, or ask me why i no longer coach the local senior soccer club.

Decentric, you are clutching at an ever deceasing supply of straws and sounding more and more desperate with each clutch.

To avoid a search for further straws, the use of 'then why did joe blow retire if he was what he claims and not a charlatan?', is an extremely poor argument to say the very least. Coincidently, one could even be excused for thinking it exemplifies the clutching at straws

There are a plethora of 'experienced' coaches around - some staff coaches at FFA state federations.

Yet in terms of developing players, they have had a modicum of success over time. If one value adds, what have they achieved? Some of them have even struggled to 'win' underage competitions (using Judy's criteria for evaluating success) against less 'experienced' coaches.

In terms of 'development' they have not produced sufficient quantities of 'successful' players at senior level for the amount of time they've coached, sometimes being paid for the job.

In terms of their appointments, there was a degree of cronyism, or if not at the beginning, over time, by continuous appointments of them. Consequently, cronyism can be levelled at those who continue to appoint them. Empirically, I know of one state branch of FFA who are guilty of this.

Ditto split state league clubs. Some are not renowned for developing players. They recruit them from elsewhere and buy premierships.

I also acknowledge there are exceptions to the rule.

One way of objectively appraising coaches is to to look at value adding with seniors at professional, semi-professional and amateur level and evaluate them based on strength of squads, and expenditure on players, relative to opponents.

Just because one has coached at a certain level, it doesn't necessarily equate to being a good coach.

This seems funny to me, and probably anyone else reading this, but one coach, a recently acting senior W League coach, is not happy to have me apply a KNVB evaluation of his coaching practices from a few years ago at club level. He is the one who has questioned my KNVB certificate on a public blog and subsequent forum.

He is a high level coach who may have been in the right place at the right time. His appointment may not have been based on merit, but it was more likely a fortuitous appointment due to favourable political machinations within a state FFA at that point in time.

Because a coach has coached at a certain 'level' doesn't necessarily equate to being a successful coach.

You used the tenuous link between a full time profession and a part time hobby.

You need to compare oranges with oranges, and apples with apples, if you are going to draw analogies based on the same criteria.

A recently acting senior W League coach is not happy to have you apply a KNVB evaluation of his coaching practices?

But, he is a high level coach who may have been in the right place at the right time. His appointment may not have been based on merit, but it was more likely a fortuitous appointment due to favourable political machinations within a state FFA at that point in time.

And he is not happy to have you apply a KNVB evaluation of his coaching practices?
......................

Let me get this straight. You cannot understand why a coach you describe to be a current, senior W-League coach and a high level coach at that,(he would obviously need to be to coach W_league) would not agree to his coaching being evaluated by a bloke with 1 season's experience with a Tasmanian regional U12 girls team and some other experience with a girls primary school team?

You really don't understand? Damn, that's kinda like a first year apprentice telling the experienced tradesman he should let him critique his ability as a tradesman.

And then telling him he has something to hide when he tells the apprentice to get his head out of his arse, get back to work, keep his mouth shut, watch and learn the damn trade from other tradesmen before having the incredible arrogance to suggest he should evaluate the work of experienced tradesmen.

But instead of listening to the experienced tradies, he gets his back up and thinks to himself....

"the tradesman may have been in the right place at the right time. His appointment may not have been based on merit, but it was more likely a fortuitous appointment due to favourable political machinations within the company at that point in time"

I honestly can't believe you actually can't see how arrogant you are in having the audacity to suggest the scenario you describe to me. Am I on my lonesome in seeing this?


Edited by skeptic: 5/12/2011 11:58:58 PM

You have a spare Panadol or 3, please?

hard to be frank and honest with out sounding a little arrogant especially in text with out body language.


Edited by krones3: 6/12/2011 06:10:58 PM

Skeptic, you are making inaccurate statements about my coaching experience. Just because someone has said I've only coached 4 year old girls in the playground it is not true.](*,)

Have a look at the Walter Pless article on his website which is linked somewhere here. He is a journo with 40 - 50 years playing, coaching and writing experience in the game. He is mates with a number of Socceroo coaches, international coaches and professional players all round the world. He wouldn't have watched a session I took, commented positively on it, then fabricated things to say about us on his blog.

I'm fed up with saying it but I've had about 12 years coaching experience.

I've coached primary schools teams in about 5 successive seasons in the Eastern Region competition.

I've coached a youth team in Kuwait in an interschool competition with French, South African and English coaches.

I've managed an adult women's seven a side team which won a city title. One of the teams they defeated was the state's second or third ranked women's state league team. Ironically, I used that W league coach as an adviser at the time. His tactics for that particular game helped the team with the title.

I watched and took notes on every training session that W league coach when he coached a relative in an under 16 academy team.

I watched and took notes on every state session when a relative was in the state under 17 team with a different coach, now a split state league women;s coach and former regional NSW TD.

I've taken female under 15 and under 17 players with specific deception skills working with the three state coaches at the end of the season.

I coached a girls rep team to win the state under 12 championship. They played about 10 competitive championship games and about 9 practice games. This was against some state FFA staff coaches, with that 25-30 years experience that Judy considers integral to sound coaching practice.

That W League coach, scouted players from the rep title winning team team I coached for the state team, then the NTC. Two have made Australian teams since - one in futsal and one in outdoor.

I've taken sessions with a split state league reserve female team.

We've taken FFE to a variety of clubs, regional associations for TDs and coaches to evaluate. When we did it at the beginning of the season, I realised the girls I coached, were as good if not better technically than some of the boys rep teams I did demonstration sessions with for regional junior association TDs.

KNVB training is very effective.

I'll cut and paste this post the next time someone quotes Judy Free's fabricated CV he contends I have for football.

The W League coach is worried about someone running the KNVB analysis over his training practices. I offered him the opportunity of replying to an analysis on WP's blog, but he wasn't game. WP was happy to do it. A bit cowardly when the acting A league coach was willing to take pot shots anonymously about the validity of the KNVB certificate.



Edited by Decentric: 6/12/2011 12:59:35 AM

Many other stakeholders share my view, and, advanced this perspective well before I thought it myself. They had had a longer association with him.

When I observed his teams play dispassionately, with different interests in other clubs I was surprised at the hostility he incurred from other coaches. When I had interests in different clubs, and observed impartially, all his opposition coaches appeared to get on with each other.

Given that I now have had 12 years experience, and the opportunity to observe his training sessions for a whole season, many which I will use myself in times to come, and now with KNVB training, how is it arrogant to appraise his sessions? You do realise what KNVB is don't you?

If we applied Krones' and Dirk's individual assessment test for techniques in isolation, I would put money on it that half his players made no technical progress over the season. They still had the same technical flaws at the end of the season, that they had at the beginning of it.

If we had applied an assessment of some of those technical flaws in limited game pressure scenarios, they would still have been struggling.

Tactically, the team had improved as an overall unit, by playing a flat 4-4-2 formation. The midfielders and keeper made most progress. Few of the team went on to higher honours.

Another coach was coaching a younger team next door. Over the season individual technical improvement was the norm in that team. More went on to higher honours.

I would strongly contend you were unaware of the prevailing state FFA scenario at the time of his appointment and the implosion of the state FFA coaching staff at that point in time.

It would almost be axiomatic amongst local coaches at the time of his appointment, that he was fortuitous in the prevailing circumstances when he applied for a state coaching job. He had been overlooked for years.

The fact is that Decentric is obsessed with all things KNVB and to him the orange way is the only way. No other methods can possibly compete and certainly not the old simple British inspired Australian way which is what Chips represents to him.

This obsession has remained despite seeing first hand several KNVB qualified coaches being exposed badly here in Australia. Whether it be Verbeek, Versleijen, Van Schip or now Coolen, it hardly matters, all have the requisite fashionable paperwork yet all have managed to display staggering inadequacies.

I would've thought it'd be enough for Decentric to start questioning the sort of Dutchies we've got down here - including those serving up the national curriculum or whatever it's called - but, alas, it seems you just don't question the KNVB or any of it's disciples.

In 2009 The acting W League coach had a FFA B Licence

The KNVB course had a lot of C Licence content, according to FFA when they were selling the course. According to two C Licence holders, one at the KNVB course and one who wasn't, the match anlaysis wasn't even covered in the FFA C Licence course. They assumed it was covered in FFA B licence later.

The FFA system goes like this in ascending order.:

Community Coaching Courses

Grass Roots
Junior Licence
Youth Licence
Senior licence


Advanced Coaching courses for Semi-pro/Pro.

C lIcence
B Licence
A Licence
Pro Licence


Given that that said acting W League coach in 2009 had a B Licence, working towards his A Licence, then I'd assume it was a reasonable proposition that a coach who had studied C Licence, and possibly B Licence content, could have evaluated his training ground practice? That there was not an enormous chasm in access to football methodology and curriculum?

The first session taken by the Derkson and Schans excoriated a shooting drill they had widely observed Australian coaches performing. They considered it useless for youth coaching. Said W league coach used it as his favourite coaching drill.

Said coach's FFA instructor, Kelly Cross, was also in the room for parts of the KNVB course. He was in awe of KNVB's Derksion and Schans football knowledge, and never, ever proffered any alternative perspectives.

To do the KNVB course in 2009 one had to have a minimum FFA Youth Licence at that point in time.

It was operated under the jurisdiction of FFA. Rob Baan bought out Arie Schans and Ad Derkson from Holland to put Australian A League youth coaches on the same page. There was a second course available to non A League Youth coaches. Other coaches who did the KNVB youth course, from NTC and now AIS, found it extremely useful.

Another current C Licence holder and former state youth team coach, as well as having a job as a country NSW TD, photocopied the entire KNVB course books I had. He is universally considered a better coach than the acting W League coach in question.

I hope that has clarified a few things.:)

Good to see you post something like this, Arosina.:d

More like I expect.

I am obsessed by KNVB because it is vastly superior to what we have here. It is sought after all over the world.

I attended a session by Norm Boardman earlier this year, one of the top FFA staff coaches in Australia.

In Norm's sessions he used a 6v6 SSG to demonstrate a point, a good one. There was no prescribed structure for the 6 players.

Why 6?

What relation did it have for 11v11?

There was no apparent shape formation prescribed for players.

Next door was the same SSG 6v6. He had a NTC coach playing (struggling too) whilst other players watched.

In fact on both sides in the SSGs he had players watching? He didn't prescribe roles for them. Why?

In his 6v6 there was no designated instruction for defenders to assume a role. What defensive formation should they assume? What were their specific instructions in that game?

KNVB is decidedly superior to the coaching we have here in terms of the quality of coaches and it is the primary source of the National Curriculum. Norm would never have been able to take sessions like that for the KNVB.

In the last WC final the top three tams came from KNVB oriented methodology, apart from the few Spanish players who hadn't played for Barcelona. This is testament to its success.

Cruyff devised the Barca Academy based on KNVB principles.

Edited by Decentric: 6/12/2011 07:34:50 AM

i'm sure we could go back and forth for years......:d

but i'm sure there are and have been thousands of talented footballers who over the years have put the form on the pitch at PL level and have gone no further.....

i think it's more to do with the politics and the selectors,and parent sponsoring/paying clubs to get their kids selected, i have experienced this first hand on several occassions.

at junior level many coaches select players that are around 1.8 m tall, not because they have foot skills or are good technically, but due to their physical attributes

we have been through the NSWPL system for 10 years or more and watched players who are so called elite footballers from age 15 through to 20, who have gone to westfields, or been in the state team or who have been at the NSWIS and have done nothing and gone nowhere, loads of these players don't even play anymore, just tells me the system or the administrators in the system are getting it wrong, so many times you see a player who can make a ball disappear up his own arse, who cant or wont play for the 90 minutes,is injury prone,has an attitude or is awefully inconsistent continue to be selected for state and rep duties........while the technically suitable,professional quite natured kid is overlooked......the noisiect wheel get the most oil.......