I also doubt AAMI Park would also be expanded. There isn't really any space to expand it and maintain its look.

Here's a thought - I know Lowy is the FFA chairman, but how about approaching him with something like this:

Build a new state of the art Westfield, say in Brisbane. Adjoining it can be a 15K stadium. Big development and investment I know.

Brisbane Roar get to play there for free. 90% of ticket sales, food and merchandising goes back to Westfield to recoup investment. At a certain point the stadium becomes property of BR, assuring their future forever.

Imagine the opportunities to place their own signage there, naming rights, the lot - it would really help bring the money into the club.

They can still make a deal with Suncorp to play 2-3 matches a season there, but most of the home games to be played at home.

You can play around with the numbers, but if a way can be found to make them stack up it could be a winner.

Similar idea has been suggested before - but the answer always seems to be that Lowy shouldn't be expected to invest such amounts into the game that he loves so much... I've always felt that rather than anyone expecting him to do so, he should WANT to do it.

"What's the point of money if you ain't gonna break the mold?" - as a diminutive musician once said.

Which is why I said that the numbers have to be made to stack up - if we go to FL for a handout that's one thing, but as a low risk venture to get that money back and leave a legacy in the process that could be something he could look at.

Individual seats.



They saved a lot on construction by keeping it very very simple (single banks of seating, no roof, 'basic' facilities beneath/behind the stands, etc.) - but I'd argue that very very simple is the perfect model for any venue of 10-20k seats.

Build it simple, start generating your own income, then improve with a second phase once you can stand on your own feet (in much the same way as we're seeing with the expansion plans there).

Ah yes, it's school holidays isn't it?

It's ok to dream, but don't ever let yourself believe it'll happen.

+1. And now that Tinkler is in charge of the Jets, we'll actually be filling our stadium to a decent percentage in a couple of seasons. I'm expecting crowds of >12k average this season, and that should only increase each season. Sydney, Brisbane and Wellington need different stadiums, and GCU need to figure out how to get their community involved with the club. The interest is obviously there, they've just gotta get the right pricing, advertisement and community interaction to get everyone to show up week in, week out. There needs to be another stadium like AAMI Park in Melbourne so that Victory and Heart each have their own home ground, that way we can ditch Ethiad until the finals series and ensure we have closer to sell-out crowds each week (looks and sounds good on TV=better TV deal). Adelaide have it spot on. Perth aren't too bad either in terms of stadium size, and the Mariners should really be getting higher crowds than what they did last season.

No need for another stadium in Melbourne - doesn't make sense when we have a perfectly good venue. Brendan Schwab hit the nail on the head the other week when he suggested that the venue be 're-dressed' for the different franchises. Different signage inside and outside the venue, a few banners, perhaps the large seat covers for unused areas, all of which would be specific to whoever the home side was in any given week. Create the illusion of a difference rather than confronting fans of both sides with the fact "this is not yours".

I don't see why people are complaining about the fact they both play in the same stadium. So do Inter and AC Milan. It's really not a big deal. In fact, I think it adds to the rivalry.

The stadium was made before Heart were even thought of. Therefore they are lucky to have the opportunity. What Heart should of done is made a deal with South Melbourne for the use of Bob Jane Stadium and also developed a juniors program with the club for the future.

I agree that Heart should be playing out of Lakeside Oval...especially now that it's been refurbished, upgraded and modernised! It will also boast a nice television tower which will meet Foxtel's demands! ;-)

15,000 - as we saw last season - is more than enough for Heart games and we'd get a better atmosphere from having more people in a 'boutique' stadium...at least until our fan base outgrows Lakeside...then we can move back into AAMI Park!

For the moment - As Melbounrne Victory play 5 home games at Etihad against the bigger teams - Melbourne Heart would play 5 home games at AAMI Park (i.e. home games against Victory, Sydney FC, Adelaide) and the rest of their home games at Lakeside! The best thing about it is that it's only two km or so down the road from the CBD and still very easy to get to.

It'll be cheaper for Heart to use too, which means more money stays in the club. The only thing I don't like about Lakeside is the fact that there's a running track around the field now which means you're further away from the action!

Very true. I can't see it happening anymore though.

World's best practice these days follows the mantra, "Build it to fill it". Stadiums are sized to cater for the realistic maximum crowd expected with the design capable of being expanded easily in stages should attendance grow.

An ideal stadium for a club would see the club's minimum attendance being no less than 50% capacity of the stadium with the club's maximum attendance approaching 100% capacity of the stadium once or twice a year and with the average attendance hovering near the middle of that range at 75% of the capacity of the stadium. Within these ranges fans do not often feel overcrowded and they do not feel exposed as they do in significantly lesser crowds. Many issues play on the feeling of exposure and it is very individual. A technique often used by stadium operators and hirers is to reduce the areas available for seat allocation so as to increase the fan density. This helps deal with feeling of exposure issues but also reduces operating costs. An example of this is Stadium Australia where often only the lower bowl and corporate levels are utilised. In the Socceroos v Bahrain World Cup Qualifier this was used to great effect. Being a night game and with all lighting in the upper tier turned off the feel of the game was that you were in a near full stadium because the seating that was full was all that could be seen. I don't believe that same feeling would have existed if it was a daytime game such are the vagaries of personal perception. It certainly didn't when I attended there amongst a 30,000 crowd during daylight.

In my view we have four stadiums that match the crowds for the clubs that use them. Bluetongue Stadium (just), AAMI Park (for Victory), Hindmarsh Stadium (arguably too small) and nib Stadium. Most of the other venues are significantly too big to the point where fans are turned off the game because of the emptiness of the venue.

Edited by gyfox: 12/7/2011 02:07:21 PM

@Gyfox: How would you solve Sydney's problem with stadia? Build it or move?

Apparently SFC are locked into the SFS for another 6 years, so this conversation is academic. However,if Sydney got to average 20K it would make it easy to stay at Moore Park. In Sydney's case the focus should be not on reducing the size of the stadium but rather looking to fill it. Getting 10K in a 4 million city is inexcusable, and heads ought to roll for that.

Perception in the market place is that SFC is an "Eastern Suburbs" team, so a concerted effort must be made to engage the St George, North and Inner West areas.

Not dragging the discussion off topic, just making the point that in a city the size of Sydney before shrinking the stadium we need to think of growing the crowd.

In the case of West Sydney whenever they come on board (and they will) IMO Parramatta Stadium is the way to go. The only problem is parking, but that doesn't seem to deter the leagueies. The size of the market warrants the 25-30K capacity stadium that Parra is, and IMO the stadium size is about right.

AMMI is fine for both teams. It is the perfect size. Even if there only 7k it still seems half full. I thought Bob Jane statdium was geeting bulldozed and rebuild to a smaller capacity stadium with state of the art facilities?
The Wellngton "Cake tin" does my head in every time I look at it. alwasy looks empty.
Sydneys stadium is a joke. If they will never get over 10K wich is very likley they should have heaps of venues to choose from shouldnt they? since there are so many rectangle rugby stadiums about? BR might get get away with their oversized stadium. If they keep on playing attractive football and lower prices a bit I think they could have a 15K average over the next 2 seasons. GCU? erm maybe a 5K stadium?

The suggestions you have made for Heart turn it into the Southern Cross bid which was rejected.

I agree with you thuper that SFC should be marketing heavily to the inner city area the Peninsula to the north and the Shire to the south. If they start to draw well from these areas they will get a spin off in fans from a bit further away making the effort to get to Moore Park.

Just on the academic part of the discussions if we could turn back the clock a couple of centuries and return the main sporting venue to Hyde Park then crowds would be significantly higher because the venue would be located right on or near the main transport hubs of the city.

PS. In answer to dale's question a location like Prince Alfred Park for a 20-25,000 seat stadium shared with the Rabbitoh's would be ideal for SFC with bigger games for both going to SFS.

Edited by gyfox: 12/7/2011 03:06:49 PM

I was in a crowd of 6,500k at AAMI and the place felt empty.

Bob Jane has been redeveloped (one stand refurbished, a second stand newly constructed, running track added around the pitch, upgrades to facilities, etc. Should be open in a few months with a capacity of approx 12k.

I have very sensative ears and bad eye sight:lol:
Cool about BJS I heard thy where going to put a running track in there too. I assume this is not true?. It's nice little stadium that.

Am I right in saying Lakeside is getting an Athletics track around it under the re-development? Surely that limits potential atmosphere?

We played at Olympic Park and the atmosphere was the best. It depends on the lay out of stadium: all seater, terrace.

Exactly right. Especially on the Gold coast where every bit of usable land is earmarked for the population growth predicted. Robina has been paid for by Taxpayers so no-one's going to approve anything that'll leave Robina empty for 6 months a year, it's still underused right now.

Piss Anna Bligh off in March and Clives mates have promised to look at the Stadium Deal. Might even be able to do the Pussies a favour while he's at it.

I see what you mean about the bad eye sight. ;)

The whole redevelopment is based around the relocation of Athletics from Olympic Park to Lakeside - so Fat Eddie can demolish Olympic Park to make a nice oval for Collingwood to train on. Bloody joke - but I'm happy for my club to benefit from the upgrades!!

That was great, I loved when we played there.

A lot of the suggestions earlier for cheap stadiums had no cover at all. One of the worst things you can do is be watching football on a hot day with the sun in your eyes. No shade is a bad idea for A-league. Id rather be rained on that that. Which would also be a heavy possibility. If we did hypothetically have the money, rather than building new stadiums, why not try to purchase already made ones? Another question is, if a club owns their own stadium, how do they cover maintenance costs etc? Would it become a burden? The FFA should be continuously and constantly lobbying stadiums for better deals. It would be ridiculous if clubs folded due to money issues when they were unable to get a better stadium deal from publicly owned stadiums.

I wanted to mention that. Covering the stands is an absolute must, people just don't turn up when it starts pissing down. They were going to be cut regardless, but when the summer rain in NQ came along I think it really killed the Fury attendance.

Whilst it's true that you pick up additional maintenance costs, you also pick up extra matchday income (all food and drink sales), rental possibilities for other sporting events, and if you set it up right - the corporate facilities can be used on non-matchdays as a restaurant, bar, reception center, etc., providing an additional income stream.

yeah thats why hindmarsh is such a great venue, awesome cover for the fans.

Yep, it's a blue athletics track with white lines :-) See renderings of it via the link below:
http://www.majorprojects.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/193384/State-Sports-Facilities-Project-Community-Notification-June-2010-Final.pdf