surely you can't be that naive......seriously.....

you support science right????
you have a high opinion of scientists they have global warming and associated problems high on their and your list....would these be the same scientist and organisations who introduced the cane toad and many other failures?????

Because it's going to magically make private electricity retailers stop price-gouging their captive audience.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Oh boy.

Paying for peoples licences, rego and insurance is spending. Removing tickets is cutting revenue.

What evidence do you have that a) your ill-concieved scheme will reduce deaths & injuries and b) That reduction would cover the spending you are suggesting?

Still, don't answer these. I'd rather talk about real world scenarios and policies.

Don't ask batfink to apply his ideals to real world scenarios. That just ends badly for everyone involved. We get headaches, he looks deranged and the thread has another 10 pages going in circles of nonsense.

http://media.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/national-times/the-rudd-resurgence-4569667.html

First Neilsen poll since Rudd took over. He's put their primary vote up 10%, with 2PP at 50-50, Labour up 7%, Lib down by 7%

:lol:

I'm more confused about everyone simply calling this a Kevin 'hey look at me' Rudd vote grab. The government simply want to move the implementation on the market based Emission Trading Scheme forward a year to float the price. The same ETS he tried to push through twice last time he was in charge, it's not a vote grab, it's what he (and many others on both sides) have always believed in. I'm personally in favour of internalising the cost of pollution into the price mechanism to remove the negative externality. Ensuring prices reflect the true cost of production is the best way to ensure resources are allocated efficiently...a consumer presented with asymmetrical information cannot reasonably make a rational decision in allocating their resources which undermines a fundamental concept of free market economics...that the consumer is rational. Then again I only have a basic grasp of economics and could be completely wrong about my assessment of the scheme.

Afroabbott....MR Negative...LOL

I sat with my staff and offered an incentive for not taking the bodgey sick day......they aggreed and now out bodgey sick days are down by 80%......

pretty sure if i penalised them for bodgey sick days by not paying them and demanding doctors certificates it wouldn't have worked........

Keep
It
Simple
Stupid

yes that includes you MR NEGATIVE

found that new job yet or are you limited in choice because of you NEGATIVE ATTITUDE????????

you never talk about real world scenarios or policies....you cherry pick sections of peoples post and ignore the relevant info....

like i keep saying you would make a perfect politician... you can talk for hours and say nothing....you can deflect every comment or relevant fact from anyone's post and completely ignore it without the least bit of conscious........you are dogmatic in your approach and attitude towards anyone else's opinion blindly believing that you are 100% correct without equivocation.......and even if found to be wrong or incorrect you just call for the facts to prove,even if you know yourself you are wrong........you have been built for the brain dead mindless world of politics.......go for it son we need more politicians we can hate.....

Very interested to see where Abbott is going to pull these 2 million jobs from.

-PB

From scrapping the carbon tax!

Haha from STOPPIN DA BOATS

-PB

Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd describes himself as Kokoda Track survivor


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/australian-prime-minister-kevin-rudd-describes-himself-as-kokoda-track-survivor/story-e6frg6n6-1226679675541

After knifing our first female prime minister, I would've though Rudd could get no lower obviously i was wrong

What's that got to do with anything? And if I recall Gillard knifed Rudd first :-k

They'll all be in Darwin and the Queensland Rainforest.

They have mines in Darwin don't they?

Jesus christ.

Edit - Which is quite an ironic reaction to someone who so staunchly believes in an invisible floating monster who refuses to use his supernatural powers for good while simultaneously calling 'bullshit' on proven science.

Edited by macktheknife: 15/7/2013 06:13:31 PM

Interesting to see Abbott's slogans evolving day to day, he still managed to whip out a "The world is moving away from carbon taxes and emissions trading schemes."

Despite it being proven false. Not that facts have ever stood in the way of a good Abbott slogan.
http://www.politifact.com.au/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jul/11/tony-abbott/home-alone-rest-world-moving-away-carbon-pricing/

Surprised that no-one picked up Abbott saying that the boats issue was the "most significant(ly)" issue out of the three he mentioned:

a) Carbon Tax
b) Government Debt
c) Stopping the boats

Does anyone actually think that stopping boats is more significant than the economy?

Some more fine points from phoneytoneyabbott

[youtube]9wkeW3w8D24[/youtube]

We gotta get of those damn immigants... they're taking our jobs!

Immigants! I knew it was them! Even when it was the bears, I knew it was them

Edited by australiantibullus: 15/7/2013 07:40:59 PM

CEEEEEERBBEEEEEEEEEERN TEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRX

"Every illegal boat is costing you $12.8 million."
Liberal Party of Australia on Monday, May 20, 2013 in a Liberal Party election leaflet

Liberal Party says every "illegal boat" is costing Australians $12.8 million
The steady and seemingly ever increasing number of boat people means more and more has to be spent in dealing with the problem.

"Every illegal boat is costing you $12.8 million," says a Liberal Party election leaflet.

That’s a lot of money to deal with one vessel. How can it be that much? We put to one side the term "illegal boat" (click on the words to see how we've dealt with that issue in a previous fact-check) and sought answers from the Liberal Party on the cost.

The $12.8 million figure comes from spending for the 2011-12 financial year and the Budget papers are the source, according to Julian Sheezel, deputy federal director of the Liberal Party.

Over the twelve months, the Liberal Party says 112 boats arrived (the parliamentary library says 110 boats arrived but we’ll ignore that). Using that number, we can determine that $1.4336 billion was spent, according to the Liberal Party, on boat arrivals.

This means on average almost $180,000 was spent on each of the 7,983 boat people who arrived that financial year.

Determining true costs from the budget papers alone is devilishly imprecise because costs are spread across many departments and agencies such as Customs, Australian Federal Police, Defence and Immigration, and are not broken down into asylum seeker costs specifically.

PolitiFact Australia made enquiries to Customs, Attorney Generals, Department of Immigration and the Treasury. They all said no such number had been calculated.

However, we did pull together a number, using Department of Immigration budget figures, similar to the $1.4 billion provided by the Liberal Party. This includes asylum seeker services, border management, detention costs and refugee determinations.

However, at least some of the costs in this number are not directly related to new boat arrivals but rather ongoing overheads of providing for asylum seekers already here.

Then there are other costs, some hidden, not included in the calculation and spread out across other departments and agencies.

By way of comparison, there is an Oxfam calculation showing the cost of boat arrivals for 2001 to 2007 of more than $500,000 for each asylum seeker.

This was during the days of the Coalition’s Pacific Solution. Oxfam, said to have come the closest to a fair number, produced a report in 2007: A price too high: the cost of Australia’s approach to asylum seekers.

Over the six years since 2001, "Australian taxpayers have spent more than $1 billion to process less than 1,700 asylum seekers in offshore locations – or more than half a million dollars each," the Oxfam report said.

Split by head across the six years, that’s $98,000 each per year spread evenly across the time period.

The Oxfam report: "The latest figures given to a budget estimates hearing on 22 May 2006 suggest that it cost $1,830 per detainee per day to keep someone on Christmas Island compared to $238 per detainee per day at Villawood in Sydney.

It would have cost about $36 million for the 1,700 Pacific Solution asylum seekers to spend 90 days at Villawood compared to almost $280 million on Christmas Island.

The Australian Council of Social Service estimated that on average the annual cost to fund one adult asylum seeker in community detention is about $40,000.

The Asylum Seeker Resource Centre estimated the cost of each asylum seeker to be around $110,000 in 2011-12, according to an ABC report. This is the same year upon which the Liberal Party bases its calculations.

This $110,000 is still short $70,000 per asylum seeker on the Liberal Party claim.

PolitiFact Australia used its in-house chartered accountant to go through the budget papers and we came up with a number ($1.42 billion) which translates to almost the same number the Liberal Party used to produce the $12.8 million per boat.

This was achieved by compiling the costs, the budget outcomes, relating to "irregular maritime arrivals" from the Department of Immigration and Citizenship. The areas included administration, service delivery, policy advice, refugee status determination, border management, regional refugee and humanitarian assistance.

A small proportion of these costs relate to non-maritime arrivals. Onshore detention costs (Outcome 4.2) and settlements for migrants and refugees costs (Outcome 5) have not been included as they contain a mix of processing costs relating maritime and non-maritime arrivals.



If you consider that 47 boats (and 3,295 people) arrived in May this year, then at $12.8 million for each vessel the cost for that month would be about $600 million. If that’s correct and the rate of arrivals continues, then the 2013-14 budget line of $2.86 billion for "offshore asylum seeker management" would be eaten up within half a year or so.

Our ruling

Obviously, costs vary depending on the number of asylum seekers on each vessel. The $12.8 million claim is an average per boat.

There are many estimates on what each asylum seeker costs Australia: $98,000, $110,000, $180,000. We cannot 100 per cent prove the Liberal Party’s estimate of $12.8 million per boat or $180,000 per asylum seeker but our research indicates the number is right or at least close to it. We would be happy to hear from a Treasury official who may have better numbers.

We rate this Mostly True.


http://www.politifact.com.au/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jun/25/liberal-party-australia/liberal-party-says-every-illegal-boat-costing-128-/

THEEEY TURRKER JUUUURRBBBS

Debunking the Myths about Asylum Seekers

Myth 1 - Boat People are Queue Jumpers
Fact: In Iraq and Afghanistan, there are no queues for people to jump. Australia has no diplomatic representation in these countries and supports the International coalition of nations who continue to oppose these regimes and support sanctions against them. Therefore, there is no standard refugee process where people wait in line to have their applications considered. Few countries between the Middle East and Australia are signatories to the 1951 Refugee Convention, and as such asylum seekers are forced to continue to travel to another country to find protection.
People who are afraid for their lives are fleeing from the world’s most brutal regimes including the Taliban in Afghanistan and Sadaam Hussein’s dictatorship in Iraq. Antonio Domini, Head of UN Humanitarian Program in Afghanistan, states that Afghanistan is one of the most difficult places in the world in which to survive.

Myth 2 – Asylum Seekers are Illegal
Fact: This is untrue. Under Australian Law and International Law a person is entitled to make an application for refugee asylum in another country when they allege they are escaping persecution. Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that "Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution."
People who arrive on our shores without prior authorisation from Australia, with no documents, or false documents are not illegal. They are asylum seekers – a legal status under International Law. Many Asylum Seekers are forced to leave their countries in haste and are unable to access appropriate documentation. In many cases oppressive authorities actively prevent normal migration processes from occurring. ‘Illegals’ are people who overstay their visas. The vast majority of these in Australia are from western countries, including 5,000 British tourists.

Myth 3 - Australia Already Takes Too Many Refugees
Fact: Australia receives relatively few refugees by world standards. In 2001 Australia will receive only 12 000 refugees through its humanitarian program. This number has remained static for three years, despite the ever-increasing numbers of refugees’ worldwide. Australia accepted 20 000 refugees each year at the beginning of the 1980’s.
According to Amnesty International 1 in every 115 people on earth are refugees, and a new refugee is created every 21 seconds. Refugees re-settle all over the world. However, the distribution of refugees across the world is very unequal.
• Tanzania hosts one refugee for every 76 Tanzanian people (1:76)
• Britain hosts one refugee for every 530 British people. (1:530)
• Australia hosts one refugee for every 1583 Australian people. (1:1583)

Myth 4 – We’re Being Swamped by Hordes of Boat People
Fact: 300 000 refugees arrived in Europe to seek asylum last year. In contrast, 4174 reached Australia by boat or plane. In 2000, Iran and Pakistan each hosted over a million Afghan refugees. The real burden of assisting refugees is borne in the main by the world’s poorest nations.

Myth 5 - They’re Not Real Refugees Anyway
Fact: 97% of applicants from Iraq and 93% of applicants from Afghanistan seeking asylum without valid visas in Australia in 1999 were recognised as genuine refugees. Therefore, under Australian law they were found to be eligible to stay in Australia. Generally, 84% of all asylum seekers are found to be legitimate refugees and are able to stay in Australia.

Myth 6 – They Must Be ‘Cashed up’ to Pay People Smugglers
Fact: It is alleged that people who have the resources to pay people smugglers could not possibly be genuine refugees. The UNHCR disputes claims about ‘cashed up’ refugees saying that payments made to people smugglers in fact range from $4000 - $5000 AUD. In reality, many families and communities pool their resources in an attempt to send their relatives to safety. People smuggling is a crime that the international community needs to combat. However, this does not negate the legitimacy of asylum seekers’ claims, nor their need to seek refuge. The international community, in eradicating people smuggling, is also required to address the growing numbers of asylum seekers throughout the world. As a Western nation, Australia has a role to play.

Myth 7 - There is no Alternative to Mandatory Detention
Fact: Asylum seekers claims need to be assessed for legitimacy. Australia is the only Western country that mandatorily detains asylum seekers whilst their claims are being heard. Asylum seekers are not criminals and detention should be minimal. At a cost of $104 a day per head the policy of detention is very expensive. Community based alternatives to mandatory detention can be found internationally and within the current Australian parole system.
A select Committee of the NSW Parliament has costed alternatives to incarceration including home detention and transitional housing. The average cost of community based programs are (per person, per day): Parole: $5.39. Probation: $3.94. Home Detention: $58.83. These options are clearly more economically efficient, and much more humane.
Sweden receives similar numbers of asylum seekers as Australia, despite having less than half the population. Detention is only used to establish a persons identity and to conduct criminal screening. Most detainees are released within a very short time, particularly if they have relatives or friends living in Sweden. Of the 17,000 asylum seekers currently in Sweden 10,000 reside outside the detention centres. Children are only detained for the minimum possible time (a maximum of 6 days).

Myth 8 - If We Let Them In, They’ll Take Our Benefits
Fact: A common misconception is that refugees arriving in Australia will ‘steal’ the entitlements of Australians. The reality is that refugees, like migrants, create demand for goods and services, thus stimulating the economy and generating growth and employment. A recent UCLA study has shown that unauthorised immigration boosts the US economy by $800 billion per year.
Edmund Rice Centre for Justice & Community Education 90 Underwood Rd
Homebush, NSW AUSTRALIA 2140
Phone: 61.2.9764 1330 Fax: 61.2.9764 1743 Email: erc@erc.org.au

http://www.phaa.net.au/documents/int_health_asylum_seekers.pdf

More Turnbullshit.
http://sortius-is-a-geek.com/?p=3164

The Ukraine has just declared Chernobyl safe to live in again since invisible substances should be scoffed at.

But why does it cost so much?

-PB