The Australian Politics thread: Prime Minister Anthony Albanese


The Australian Politics thread: Prime Minister Anthony Albanese

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afromanGT
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Joffa wrote:
You say the Liberals have a consistent economic record and blindly overlook the Keating and Hawke Governments that provided the restructured economy for them...and overlook the mining boom.

You lambast he Rudd/Gillard economic record, yet overlook the global economy?

Not a very strong argument there mate.


How do explain Australia's AAA rating, low interest rates, low unemployment rate, and not falling into the global recession?

Obviously that's all just down to how amazingly infallible Liberal governments are.

Edited
9 Years Ago by afromanGT
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afromanGT wrote:
rusty wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
rusty wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
Regardless of FTTN or FTTH's upgrade compatibility or the thoughts of any of the telco's, FTTN is an already substantially obsolete system. Why would you insist on spending billions of dollars on a system that is already globally obsolete and will be even more laughably so by the time the project is complete?


Where is your evidence FTTN is obsolete? Goverments across the worlds are rolling it out, private companies are spending billions on new techniques such as vectoring and phantom mode to attain FTTH esque speeds. There is posssibly more international demand for FTTN then there is for fibre at the moment, given its recent advances. It's because it's easier to build, more affordable and you can attract more end users. Fibre is better but there's no point building a national FTTH network when no one else is. We will have the best internet network in the world and nothing to use on it.

Majority of countries are currently upgrading from FTTN
Former ACCC head Graeme Samuel: FTTN is obsolete


You can do better than copying and pasting.

You asked for evidence, I gave it to you. Dumbass.


Neither of those opinions qualify as evidence. Dumbass.
Edited
9 Years Ago by rusty
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afromanGT wrote:
Joffa wrote:
You say the Liberals have a consistent economic record and blindly overlook the Keating and Hawke Governments that provided the restructured economy for them...and overlook the mining boom.

You lambast he Rudd/Gillard economic record, yet overlook the global economy?

Not a very strong argument there mate.


How do explain Australia's AAA rating, low interest rates, low unemployment rate, and not falling into the global recession?

Obviously that's all just down to how amazingly infallible Liberal governments are.


It was clearly all John Howards doing.
Edited
9 Years Ago by 433
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rusty wrote:
ozboy wrote:
rusty wrote:
notorganic wrote:
So... AAPT have made a statement that contradicts the general consensus in the industry that FTTN is a barrier to FTTP rather than a stepping stone, and a single person within iinet (the person responsible for the cash) is taking a short term cash injection view rather than a long term infrastructure one.

Compelling stuff, Rusty. Well done mate.


There's no industry consensus that FTTN is a barrier to FTTH. None of the telcos have come out and said FTTN is a bad idea. Some have expressed their preference for FTTH, others FTTN , but most are technology agnostic and care more about the bottom line than the medium. Even NZ, who have installed about 3000 FTTN cabinets throughout the country delivering ADSL and slower VDSL services are now extending fibre to the home, so the upgrade potential from FTTN to FTTH is absolutely feasible.

There's nothing the iinet CFO or AAPT guy said to indicate they're not supporting long term infrastructure, in fact he said “Both parties have a plan for NBN that provides massive improvements for customers in terms of speed and significant improvements for us particularly in regional Australia.” It's just that the Coalitions NBN costs less to build, costs less to the end user and delivers similar speeds to the Labors.


A 2 lane highway is cheaper than a 5 lane.
However, when you subsequently upgrade that 2 lane highway to 5 lanes, the final cost is much more due to two sets of fixed costs, rather than one.


But if you build a 2 lane highway, you save on interest costs and use the capex savings to invest in programs which deliver revenue sooner and at a higher rate of return, and the proceeds can be used to pay for future highway expansions at a lower capex due to the evolution of more cost effective highway building technology.

With increased material and labour costs your point is nullified. The material costs would also be in real terms, due to increasing scarcity of resources.
It is also questioned due to the opportunity costs foregone of investment in technology now that would benefit potential programs now that are lost to our international competitors who already have said infrastructure.
It also nullified because interest rates and hence borrowing costs will never be as low as what they are now to when FTTN gets updated.
So FTTH done once now, is overall cheaper than FTTN upgraded to FTTH in future. Basic economics.
So much for the catch cry of the coalition being better economic managers.

Edited
9 Years Ago by ozboy
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rusty wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
rusty wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
rusty wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
Regardless of FTTN or FTTH's upgrade compatibility or the thoughts of any of the telco's, FTTN is an already substantially obsolete system. Why would you insist on spending billions of dollars on a system that is already globally obsolete and will be even more laughably so by the time the project is complete?


Where is your evidence FTTN is obsolete? Goverments across the worlds are rolling it out, private companies are spending billions on new techniques such as vectoring and phantom mode to attain FTTH esque speeds. There is posssibly more international demand for FTTN then there is for fibre at the moment, given its recent advances. It's because it's easier to build, more affordable and you can attract more end users. Fibre is better but there's no point building a national FTTH network when no one else is. We will have the best internet network in the world and nothing to use on it.

Majority of countries are currently upgrading from FTTN
Former ACCC head Graeme Samuel: FTTN is obsolete


You can do better than copying and pasting.

You asked for evidence, I gave it to you. Dumbass.


Neither of those opinions qualify as evidence. Dumbass.

When you quote blogs: A-OK.
When someone else quotes blogs: unacceptable.
Edited
9 Years Ago by afromanGT
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433 wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
Joffa wrote:
You say the Liberals have a consistent economic record and blindly overlook the Keating and Hawke Governments that provided the restructured economy for them...and overlook the mining boom.

You lambast he Rudd/Gillard economic record, yet overlook the global economy?

Not a very strong argument there mate.


How do explain Australia's AAA rating, low interest rates, low unemployment rate, and not falling into the global recession?

Obviously that's all just down to how amazingly infallible Liberal governments are.


It was clearly all John Howards doing.

Also it was Labor who brought in a fixed/floating price for carbon. The long term result of Abbott's wishes of no action would have cost economically more in the long term. Additionally, climate denier Abbott's Direct Action has been shown by independent experts to be more expensive economically than an ETS. Only simpletons automatically assume the coalition are better economic managers because they have outdated, lazy paradigms and don't want to deal in facts because it means they have to question their own thinking.
Edited
9 Years Ago by ozboy
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macktheknife wrote:
FTTN won't do much more than 50mbps if it's rolled out in the next 3 years, while NBNco are going to release 1000mbps speeds by Christmas. There is also upload speed to take into account. NBNco upload speeds will be thousands of times faster. The 1000mpbs download speed is match with a 400mbps upload, while the FTTN plan will at most 20mbps. Much likely closer to 5 or 10.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't FTTP (FTTH) potentially allow for a ten fold increase over these speeds, based on recent scientific experiments undertaken overseas?

Edited by ozboy: 16/8/2013 06:49:00 PM
Edited
9 Years Ago by ozboy
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Inefficient Coalition asylum policy will flood the courts

August 16, 2013
Jane McAdam and Ben Saul

The Coalition's new policy on asylum will degrade administrative decision-making, undermine accountability of public power, and leave refugees in a permanent state of psychological and legal limbo. Like the Howard government policies it mimics, it will create enormous and expensive bureaucratic inefficiencies by flooding the courts with claims for judicial review, and forcing immigration officials to remake decisions about refugee status every few years.

First, the Coalition wants to abolish the Refugee Review Tribunal, the independent body that transparently reviews decisions made by immigration officials about whether people are refugees. In contrast to the Immigration Department, the Refugee Review Tribunal has found that the vast majority of asylum seekers coming by boat to Australia are genuine refugees entitled to Australia's protection.

But rather than questioning the quality of departmental decision-making happening behind closed doors by unseen bureaucrats, the Coalition has decided that it will simply abolish independent merits review so that bad decisions by the Immigration Department cannot be corrected.

In doing this, the strong message being sent to immigration officials is to keep their recognition rates low. When a prospective Immigration Minister's focus is on border control and "stopping the boats", and yet the department he would control is the only entity capable of making decisions about whether or not people are refugees, a potentially serious conflict of interest arises.

A hallmark of a functioning administrative law system is that decisions by government bodies can be reviewed. We take this for granted in Australia. And yet the Coalition is proposing that life or death decisions about refugee status will be made with no opportunity for review. There will be no chance to correct a bad decision – even if the decision maker didn't consider relevant information, or made erroneous assumptions, or relied on out-of-date country information, or perhaps even misunderstood the law.

But no matter how hard it might try, the Coalition cannot remove the right of asylum seekers to access our courts. The Howard government tried this, and it was a resounding failure. The High Court retains the constitutional power to overrule any administrative decision for jurisdictional error.

This has two implications. First, if the Refugee Review Tribunal were abolished, the courts – and the High Court in particular – would be flooded. This would be a massive waste of resources and court time, especially since the role of our constitutional court should be to determine complex matters of constitutional law, not to act as the arbiter for thousands of asylum claims. Second, courts can only review legal errors in decision-making, not the merits of whether someone is actually a refugee. This means that any cases infected by legal error would have to be sent back to the Immigration Department for reconsideration. And so the system would become further clogged.

A one-stop-shop for refugee decision-making increases the chance of bad decisions. It increases the chance of people being sent back to persecution and other serious forms of harm. And that, in turn, increases the risk of Australia breaching its obligations under national and international law.

Another element of the Coalition's policy is to create a non-statutory process for asylum decisions. The Rudd government tried this and got tied up in knots in the High Court. No matter how clever government lawyers might think they are in drafting their way out of the Migration Act, the High Court has said that that statute is the source of any decisions made in relation to asylum seekers and refugees, and common law rules of procedural fairness must apply.

The Coalition has also said it will reintroduce Temporary Protection Visas, one of the cruellest elements of the Howard asylum regime. Their deleterious effects on mental health have been extensively documented. A Senate inquiry in 2006 said they had little deterrent value and incurred huge costs in terms of human suffering.

TPV holders are not allowed to bring their family members to Australia, and must have their status reassessed every few years. Under Howard, the bar on family reunion meant that many more women and children got on boats to join their husbands or fathers who had already reached Australia. Many died in the process.

TPVs keep genuine refugees in limbo. By definition, as refugees they cannot go home, and yet their short-term status precludes them from building a new life here. They live in a constant state of anxiety, fearful of being removed once their visa expires. It is unsettling and disempowering in the extreme.

The Coalition's idea that TPV holders in Australia would have to work indefinitely for the dole would constitute unlawful discrimination. Under international human rights law, Australia is not allowed to discriminate between different groups of non-citizens in the provision of social security. Furthermore, the Refugee Convention says that refugees should be treated the same way as citizens when it comes to social security.

In other countries, temporary protection mechanisms are only used as a short-term emergency mechanism in mass influx situations that overwhelm the normal asylum system. Temporary visa holders have the right to apply for permanent protection. Temporary protection is therefore not seen as a durable solution, but an interim status (as its name suggests).

Finally, there is the issue of the retrospective nature of the Coalition's policy which will apply to 30,000 asylum seekers already in Australia. While Australia does not have constitutional safeguards or a bill of rights precluding retrospective civil laws, it is a basic element of the rule of law that you shouldn't have the rug pulled out from underneath you. Further, the 30,000 asylum seekers have already been waiting in a holding pattern for over a year to have their claims processed. They have no certainty about their ultimate fate, and now they don't even have certainty about the process they will go through to have this determined.

Jane McAdam is Scientia Professor of international law at UNSW Law Faculty. Ben Saul is Professor of international law at Sydney Law School. Both hold Australian Research Council Future Fellowships.

Read more: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/inefficient-coalition-asylum-policy-will-flood-the-courts-20130816-2s18e.html#ixzz2c7ilALFD
Edited
9 Years Ago by Joffa
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Peter Beattie set to lose Forde, Guardian Lonergan poll shows

Lenore Taylor, political editor
theguardian.com, Friday 16 August 2013

Labor is haemorrhaging support in the must-win marginal Queensland seat of Forde as a series of opinion polls suggest the ALP’s surge after Kevin Rudd’s return to the leadership has crashed and Coalition leader Tony Abbott is on track for an easy election victory.

The polls, information from inside both campaigns and growing public confidence of Abbott and his senior ministers suggest the Coalition has rapidly pulled ahead of Labor in the second week of the campaign.

Labor was pinning its hopes on holding ground in NSW and winning seats in Rudd’s home state of Queensland, but a Guardian Lonergan poll in the western Sydney seat of Lindsay showed Labor heading for a landslide loss and the poll in Forde shows star candidate and former premier Peter Beattie a disastrous 12 percentage points behind his Liberal opponent on primary votes, 3 percentage points down on Labor’s vote in the last election.

When Beattie was parachuted into Forde last week, he said: "The bottom line is this. If I can’t win Forde, Kevin [Rudd] won’t be there [as prime minister]."

A Guardian Lonergan poll taken in the seat Thursday night shows the Liberal sitting member Bert van Manen’s support soaring from the 44% he polled in 2010 to 56% in 2013. Beattie’s primary vote was a dismal 34%, three percentage points lower than the 37% achieved by Labor’s candidate Brett Raguse in 2010.

Worse still for Labor, the poll suggests that parachuting Beattie into the seat where a grassroots candidate Des Hardman had already begun campaigning has actually hurt its vote.

Of the 1,160 voters polled 40% said they were less likely to vote for the Labor party as a result of the candidate change. Only 22% said they were more likely to vote for the ALP because of Beattie.

And like the Lindsay poll - the results of which have been broadly confirmed in a JWS research poll taken for Fairfax in the same seat - the Forde poll showed the Coalition way in front of Labor on the issues about which the voters in the electorate cared most.

There were 46% who said the economy was the most important issue to them and 62% said they thought the Coalition was best at economic management, compared with 35% who nominated Labor.

Leadership was the most important issue for 27% and 53% thought Abbott had the most positive election messages, compared with 40% who chose Rudd.

Some 11% said education was the most important issue to them, and 52% said they thought the Coalition had the best education policy, compared with 44% for Labor – even though shortly before the election the Coalition in effect adopted Labor’s schools funding policy, at least for the first four years.

Some 10% of voters in Forde said asylum seekers were the most important issue to them, with 62% thinking the coalition would be better at "stopping the boats".

Several marginal seats polls have suggested the fall-off in Labor support in the second week and Labor strategists concede they are falling behind and may have to recast their campaign.

But a recast could see Labor campaign more aggressively against the perceived weaknesses of Tony Abbott, contradicting its promise to run a positive campaign.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/16/guardian-lonergan-poll-shows-peter-beattie-lose-forde
Edited
9 Years Ago by Joffa
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ozboy wrote:
macktheknife wrote:
FTTN won't do much more than 50mbps if it's rolled out in the next 3 years, while NBNco are going to release 1000mbps speeds by Christmas. There is also upload speed to take into account. NBNco upload speeds will be thousands of times faster. The 1000mpbs download speed is match with a 400mbps upload, while the FTTN plan will at most 20mbps. Much likely closer to 5 or 10.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't FTTP (FTTH) potentially allow for a ten fold increase over these speeds, based on recent scientific experiments undertaken overseas?


Potentially, with very high increased costs for maintenance, copper remediation, in-house visits, new modems, splitters in your house, nodes needing to be pretty much on everyone's doorstep. They also aren't in the field yet. By the time all these copper wonder technologies might be viable, we'd already have much of the country hooked up to FTTP.

So it means the country would spend as much money, on an inferior technology, that will be replaced by FTTP eventually, that needs the Govt to spend even more on buying Telstra's copper, because maybe one day the copper network will be able to do what the FTTP network can do by the end of the year, and perhaps you might save a few households 3 years of waiting for the better speeds, only for them to get stuck with the crappier technology until we have to upgrade them anyway.

Once FTTN is maxed out with these technologies, that's it. The copper runs on these things like 'g.fast' are pretty much on doorstep, there's no where to go except bringing the fibre the extra 100 meters to hook it up into the house itself.

And all these FTTN technologies do is max the speed at less than what FTTP is already capable of, with no upgrade path.

FTTP is just at the start of what we can do. 1000/400 won't be the end.
Edited
9 Years Ago by macktheknife
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Tony Abbott at Oxford: fighter, networker, Thatcherite
Twenty-two months in England transformed the beer-swilling, rugby song-singing chameleon – and gave him a new hero
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Andy Beckett
theguardian.com, Friday 16 August 2013 09.02 AEST
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'Abbo' the heavyweight contender: 'He shut his eyes when he boxed – that meant he was scared,' says his sparring partner, Nicholas Stafford-Deitsch
In the Oxford university rugby team in the autumn of 1981, there was a loosehead prop with a mixed reputation.

"He was a good scrummager," says Phil Crowe, the captain at the time. "He could scrounge on the ground for the ball. He did all the technical things pretty well."

In confrontations, he never took a backward step. Sometimes he took a forward one: if an opposing player was giving him a hard time, and the referee wasn't looking, "He was a bit of a pugilist. He had a quick right jab."

But he had his limitations. "Around the field, he wasn't all that flash. He was never going to be a sprinter."

Heavy in the shoulders and 14 or 15 stone, depending on how much training he had been doing and how much beer he had been drinking, he was an awkward fit in an Oxford side that based its game on speed and mobility.

In December 1981, just before the all-important annual Varsity Match against Cambridge, participation in which earned a Blue, he was dropped. "He was very emotional," remembers an Oxford friend. He never played rugby for the Oxford first team again.

Three decades later, as the leader of Australia's rightwing Coalition, one of the country's most prominent Anglophiles and the favourite to be prime minister after the 7 September federal election, Tony Abbott is long accustomed to describing his Oxford days in glowing terms.

"They were extraordinarily rich and golden beyond belief," he told the current affairs programme Sunday in 2001. "Someone once said that Oxford left you magnificently unprepared for the long littleness of life ...

"At Oxford you are amongst the best young men and women of your generation in the English-speaking world, and that's a tremendous privilege."

Last December, Abbott told an audience at his old Oxford college, Queen's, "I hope I will always keep an Oxford cast of mind."

He was a student there from October 1981 to July 1983, between the ages of 23 and 25. A Rhodes scholar, part of a production line for world leaders established by the British imperialist Cecil Rhodes, he studied politics and philosophy and got "a solid second".

He played a lot of sport, won a Blue for boxing and returned to Australia with his Anglophilia reinforced. Little else about these 22 months has been established – in contrast to his highly scrutinised and often contentious existence before and after.

Yet all his biographers agree that Oxford was important to him, possibly pivotal. What exactly was his life there like?

Abbott had been born in England. His father, Dick, grew up in a village near Newcastle. During the second world war, Dick riskily emigrated to Australia by boat – like many later, less welcomed foreigners.

Through the 40s and 50s, Abbott's father moved itchily back and forth between the two countries, eventually giving up an ambition to be a Catholic priest to become a dentist. In 1957 he married an Australian, Fay, and she gave birth to Tony in London the same year.

In 1960 the family moved to Australia for good. According to Abbott's early biographer Michael Duffy, "Tony Abbott's first memory is of the steam train that took them from London to Southampton, where they boarded for the six-week voyage."

Settling in Sydney, Dick grew successful and wealthy. Tony was an adored only son with three younger sisters. He followed an increasingly pressured route through ambitious Jesuit schools to grand, Oxford-influenced Sydney university.

There he made himself probably the most famous – or infamous – student activist in the country, leading an aggressive rightwing revolt against the leftwing campus orthodoxies of the late 70s.

There were allegations against him of physically threatening behaviour – punching a wall on either side of the head of a rival student politician, Barbara Ramjam; and of sexual harassment – groping an activist, Helen Wilson, while she was speaking at a meeting.

After the latter incident, Abbott was charged with indecent and common assault, said he had "tapped her on the back, about the level of her jeans belt", and was acquitted. This month Ramjam received an apology from News Corp Australia, which had claimed that her account of the former episode was fictitious.


By the end of the 70s, the campus was screaming with anti-Abbott graffiti. He also believed, erroneously as it turned out, that he had fathered a child. Knowing that two of his many, jostling ambitions – becoming a priest and applying for a Rhodes scholarship – were not open to parents, he had split up with the mother and the baby had been adopted. In Sydney, Abbott was feeling increasingly hemmed in.

Then, in late 1980, he won his scholarship to Oxford. "A Rhodes" was supposed to have sporting as well as intellectual and leadership ability, and at Sydney he had played rugby keenly, sometimes for the first team.

A long line of successful Rhodes applicants from the university had done the same. His campus notoriety was no secret to the scholarship judging panel – figures from Sydney's conservative establishment – but his rightwing politics were not a million miles from theirs and, besides, he had a seductive ability to admit fault and promise to do better.

"The most Catholic thing about this profoundly Catholic man," writes his latest biographer, David Marr, "is his faith in absolution. The slate can always be wiped clean."

Oxford offered a fresh start. Abbott felt he could ignore many of the expectations that had built up around him in Australia and reinvent himself. At Oxford, at least to start with, almost no one had heard of him or his Sydney antics.

"He was put in a much larger pond, where there was a huge amount of indifference to him," says Norman O'Bryan, an Oxford friend and one of seven other 1981 Australian Rhodes scholars in a university of 20,000 students.

Oxford also appeared to be the kind of England that the deeply conservative Abbott idealised, ever since his mother bought him Ladybird books about Francis Drake and Henry V as a child. Ancient, resilient, ritualised, the university aroused what he described at Queen's last year as his "instinctive respect for values and institutions that have stood the test of time".

In 1981 his college was 640 years old: almost five times older than Sydney university. With its honey-coloured quadrangles, complete with towers and colonnades and roof statues, sited right in the medieval heart of the university, Queen's looked like a dream of Oxford made real.

Abbott quickly started spending time in the Middle Common Room, a handsome social space for graduate students. A contemporary remembers him "sitting in an armchair, legs slung across, holding court, pleased with himself".

Abbott's actual living quarters were a little different. Like many of the foreign students at Queen's, he was accommodated a 10-minute walk away, on the edge of less-exquisite east Oxford, in the Florey Building, an angular 60s fishbowl that looks like a Martian spaceship cut in half.

Roger Mastalir, a US Rhodes scholar, was one of the other residents. He recalls endless struggles with window blinds to get privacy and the correct temperature, but also a close Florey community.

"I remember discussions about Roman Catholicism, Anglicanism, Hinduism. Tony was willing to talk to anyone about anything. He could be aggressive when debating – 'tell me why you think that' – but I don't recall him ever being belittling.

"He tried to soak up as much as possible. He was not afraid to try anything."

At Oxford, Abbott did not look that charismatic. Heavier-set than he is now, he wore middle-aged trousers and V-necked jumpers with out-of-date, 70s-style shirt collars poking out. His voice was a little tight and needling.

But he was loud and good fun. "He was a larger-than-life Aussie Ocker," says Crowe. "Beer-drinking, rugby song-singing, thick accent."

The other Australian Rhodes scholars avoided playing to the stereotype but "Abbo" embraced it. "You could hear him from across the room," says another Oxford contemporary. "Abbo always liked to stir the pot and say outrageous things."

Half-jokingly, he told the college's Anglican chaplain that he ought to have chosen Catholicism instead. On this and other occasions, some at Queen's felt Abbott "went over the top a bit", says Brian McGuinness, a philosophy tutor there.

Like Sydney university in the 70s, Oxford in the early 80s had a vigorous leftwing culture: even the gilded student magazine Isis ran articles about the horror of nuclear weapons.

Although the provost of Queen's was Lord Blake, a renowned Tory historian and supporter of the prime minister Margaret Thatcher, its students consistently voted Labour in university elections.

Abbott's politics stood out: "He loved Maggie Thatcher," says Crowe. "He was even more conservative than he is now."

In May 1982, six days after the British sinking of the Argentinian warship General Belgrano, with 323 killed, an Oxford demonstration took place against Thatcher's military campaign in the Falklands. Hundreds of chanting students and locals, led by chained figures made up as corpses, converged on the Martyrs' Memorial, a traditional gathering place for protesters.

Abbott hurriedly scraped together a dozen fellow rightwingers from Queen's, rushed to the memorial, and mounted a counter-demonstration in favour of the British war effort. Provocatively, he stood beside the peace protesters, one hand in his pocket, bellowing pro-Thatcher slogans.

Eventually, the university newspaper Cherwell reported, there were "police attempts to disperse [his] unofficial meeting", but these "met with little response".


Bellowing for Maggie: an Oxford Mail clipping showing Abbott leading a counter-demonstration against pacifists after the sinking of the General Belgrano
Abbott's stubbornness and cheek were vindicated: his stunt received almost as much press coverage as the pacifists.

Yet he was not loud all the time. Oxford university is full of separate worlds and, then as now, Abbott kept his different sides – Ocker and Anglophile, political wild man and lover of order – carefully compartmentalised.

Half-hidden down a side street, well away from Queen's, Campion Hall is a small institution for Jesuits, not a college but a discreet part of the university. "Tony used to spend a large amount of time there," says O'Bryan, who too had been Jesuit-educated in Australia.

Abbott talked to O'Bryan and other Oxford Catholic friends about becoming a priest. They thought the prospect unlikely, but recognised the seriousness and old-fashionedness of his faith. "I remember him saying the Catholic Church went downhill when mass started being said in English instead of Latin," says one.

At Campion Hall, Abbott's frequent companion was Paul Mankowski, a devout American Jesuit. Mankowski, now an influential Catholic conservative with a busy intellectual life in the US, Australia and Italy, declined to be interviewed for this article.

At Oxford in the early 80s, he was already an intriguingly austere figure. He had taken a vow of poverty and wore the clothes of dead priests.

The young, questing Australian was lastingly impressed: "Mankowski," he wrote with feeling in his autobiography, Battlelines, 28 years later, "was both the embodiment of muscular Christianity and fully acquainted with the cross tides of modern life ... I doubt that I have ever met a finer man." Abbott still sees him today.

Mankowski boxed for the university. According to Abbott, in January 1982, "after a couple of extra drinks" in one of the many Oxford bars the Australian relished, Mankowski talked him into joining the university boxing club.

Abbott had boxed a little at Sydney but, after one training session in the cold, basic Oxford university gym, Abbott's account goes on, he had second thoughts.

Then Mankowski gave him a new skipping rope for training as a gift. Such generosity from such a poor man persuaded him to persist.

Others suggest less elevated Abbott motives also played a part. He had just been dropped from the rugby team. Getting a Blue – both a burning personal ambition and almost a social requirement in the gregarious, sport-fixated world of the Australian Rhodes scholars – now required other means, and boxing was a shrewd plan B.

"It's the easiest way to get a Blue," says Nicholas Stafford-Deitsch, who became Abbott's sparring partner. "Unlike in other Oxford sports, you could win one as a novice, within months."

Hardly any students had prior boxing experience, and even fewer wanted to win a Blue by getting hit.

That Abbott did has played a large part in his personal mythology ever since. On his website, boxing takes up a third of the space he devotes to Oxford.

As a tightly wound man – perhaps from keeping all his contradictory impulses in balance -– physical exercise has always been a release; and sometimes also a useful form of public machismo.

Yet at Oxford Abbott was not actually a great boxer. A heavyweight then, but of modest height and reach.

"He was crude, with very little technique," says Stafford-Deitsch, then the university's best fighter. "He wasn't a huge puncher. He hardly ever touched me.

"He shut his eyes when he boxed – that meant he was scared. He certainly didn't have the toned physique of the toned athlete. And he was a heavy breather as he started to get tired – another thing an experienced boxer hides."

On 5 March 1982, Abbott made his debut for Oxford, in the Varsity Match against Cambridge. The contest, involving nine pairs of boxers, took place in Oxford town hall: a tight, theatrical auditorium with viewing galleries along three sides.

More than a thousand spectators squeezed in, including some of Abbott's old rugby crowd, with whom, characteristically, he had remained on drinking terms.

As the bouts went by, and the score reached 4-4, Abbott's contest, scheduled last, became the decider. The atmosphere turned increasingly "gladiatorial", Crowe recalls.

Toilet rolls were thrown from the galleries. There was beer in the air and beer on the floor. Even to the experienced Stafford-Deitsch, the crowd seemed "absolutely manic, baying for blood, screaming, 'Get the effing tabs!' ", Oxford slang for Cambridge students.

Abbott's opponent was taller, with a better reach. Crowe remembers "looking at Tony in the ring before his bout. He was clearly shitting himself, sweat dripping off."

As soon as the fight started, Abbott began punching as fast as he could, leaving himself no defence at all. Within 45 seconds, his opponent was down: Abbott had won.

Looking utterly exhausted, mobbed by rugby mates who had clambered into the ring, "Abbo stood ... with a half-smile almost of disbelief," the Oxford Mail reported, in a prominent, ecstatic account of Oxford's 5-4 victory. In a highly status-conscious city and university, Abbott was suddenly a hero.

He exploited his celebrity. In the 1983 Varsity Match, after again winning the decisive bout, he told the Mail: "I just made believe that my opponent was Bob Hawke, the leader of the Australian Labor party."


The victorious boxing team. In status-conscious Oxford, Abbott became a celebrity
For all Abbott's boisterousness and likability at Oxford, some who knew him there felt, as one puts it, that underneath, "He was positioning himself for a political career. It was the way he comported himself. He had this air ... of expectation."

Another says, "He would use your name at the end of every sentence. He would look you in the eye and shake your hand. I didn't feel it was terribly genuine."

Then as now, women were less drawn to him than men: "He would do that charm thing, but he would always end up with the blokes, talking about rugby."

No one I interviewed recalled his having a girlfriend at Oxford. Some remembered gossip at the time about his having fathered a child in Sydney, later proved to be inaccurate.

But most agreed that Abbott's English interlude was a relatively relaxed episode in his restless, sometimes pent-up life. "Abbo in Oxford was a happy man, so he was good company," says one Australian Rhodes scholar then. "His complexities were well hidden."

By going to Oxford, he was self-consciously and usefully following the example of a long line of powerful Australians: Rupert Murdoch, Malcolm Fraser, Malcolm Turnbull among them.

"The universities play a crucial role in the education of the elite of modern society," a precocious Abbott had told an Australian Broadcasting Corporation interviewer in March 1979.

At Oxford, as he described last December, he was also able to network for the future: "I first met George Brandis, now the shadow attorney-general; Don Markwell ... director of [the rightwing thinktank] the Menzies Research Centre; and Tom Harley ... a long-term member of the federal executive of the Liberal party."

Markwell remembers Abbott at Oxford as someone with "very worked-through political ideas", including a Cold Warrior's absolute hostility to the Soviet Union.

In 1982, during the long university summer holiday, Brandis ran into Abbott in Oxford. Abbott had just been to Russia to see the place for himself – easy foreign travel was part of Oxford's appeal for Australian Rhodes scholars.

When Brandis asked for his impressions, suggesting that Russia must offer at least some cultural pleasures, Abbott replied, "Mate, it doesn't have a single redeeming feature."

But Markwell also noticed Abbott's ability to be both "utterly authentic" and "a chameleon": "People underestimate how smart he is."

At Oxford, Abbott was freed from the burden of nonstop Australian campus activism; and from fitting his fogeyish politics – hostile to feminism and socialism but also to free markets – into a modern political party. Before Oxford and for half a decade afterwards, he dithered between the Liberals, Labor and the dying, socially conservative Catholic splinter group the Democratic Labour party. At Oxford, he could just bellow for Maggie.

In the summer of 1983, after doing a three-year undergraduate degree on an accelerated basis, as Rhodes scholars often did, he took his finals. Although McGuinness remembers him as "an intelligent chap", Abbott's handwriting was so bad, records Michael Duffy, he was recalled to dictate his essays to a typist.

Abbott was good at getting second chances. The '"solidity'"or otherwise of the second-class degree he achieved is impossible to judge: Oxford did not introduce the distinction between a 2:1 and a 2:2 until three years later.

Summing up his Oxford academic achievements, Blake told him, "Sometimes your robust common sense needs to be tempered with a little philosophic doubt."

Yet in some ways the worldly provost of Queen's misread him. After Oxford, Abbott's self-questioning side reasserted itself. Between 1983 and 1990, in order, he travelled the length of Africa, vaguely pursuing an interest in the British empire and Cecil Rhodes in particular; tried and failed to become a priest at a Catholic seminary in Sydney; tried journalism; ran a concrete plant; and finally came to rest in the Liberal party in the early 90s.

Did Oxford change him? It certainly calmed him down – crucial to the transition from campus hothead to conventional politician. Oxford also deepened his Catholicism and conservatism.

It acquainted him a little with fear and failure, and with greater talents than himself. And it gave him a more modern British role model than Rhodes and his other old-fashioned favourite, Winston Churchill.

Like Abbott, Thatcher went to Oxford. Like him, she seized the leadership of her party. Like him, she was an awkward, aggressive opposition leader whom voters did not warm to.

But she won office and used it ruthlessly. As Abbott indirectly acknowledged: after he got back to Australia from Oxford, Duffy records, he named his old wreck of a car the General Belgrano.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/16/tony-abbott-at-oxford-university
Edited
9 Years Ago by Joffa
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That's an extensive character assassination by the Guardian. :lol:
Edited
9 Years Ago by afromanGT
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Roar_Brisbane wrote:
MvFCArsenal16.8 wrote:
Joffa wrote:
Heineken wrote:
caption this:



So you're Kevin Rudd, my names Batfink, oh yes it is!

=d> =d> =d> =d> =d>

=d> =d> =d> =d> =d> =d>



LOL....very good....very funny....LOL .....but very unlikely because I despise the guy.....probably more likely to be 433 or ozboy.....perhaps ballbagz........

none the less very very funny
Edited
9 Years Ago by batfink
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Batfink, have you ever been told that comedy is like a frog?
Edited
9 Years Ago by afromanGT
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Roar_Brisbane wrote:
MvFCArsenal16.8 wrote:
Joffa wrote:
Heineken wrote:
caption this:



So you're Kevin Rudd, my names Batfink, oh yes it is!

=d> =d> =d> =d> =d>

=d> =d> =d> =d> =d> =d>



LOL....very good....very funny....LOL .....but very unlikely because I despise the guy.....probably more likely to be 433 or ozboy.....perhaps ballbagz........

none the less very very funny
Edited
9 Years Ago by batfink
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batfink wrote:
Roar_Brisbane wrote:
MvFCArsenal16.8 wrote:
Joffa wrote:
Heineken wrote:
caption this:



So you're Kevin Rudd, my names Batfink, oh yes it is!

=d> =d> =d> =d> =d>

=d> =d> =d> =d> =d> =d>



LOL....very good....very funny....LOL .....but very unlikely because I despise the guy.....probably more likely to be 433 or ozboy.....perhaps ballbagz........

none the less very very funny



Sorry Batfink :lol:
Edited
9 Years Ago by Joffa
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Western Sydney poll shows huge swing towards Coalition

Guardian Lonergan poll shows 'sex appeal' candidate Fiona Scott on course for 60% of primary vote in litmus-test seat

Lenore Taylor, political editor
theguardian.com, Friday 16 August 2013 04.01 AEST

Tony Abbott’s “sex appeal” candidate, Fiona Scott, is poised for a landslide victory in the litmus-test western Sydney seat of Lindsay with a stunning 60% of the primary vote, according to a Guardian Lonergan poll.

Scott’s huge lead over the sitting member, the assistant treasurer, David Bradbury, who has held the marginal seat since 2007, surprised even the pollster.

“Given the size of the swing, we have triple-checked the data and we are very confident this poll is accurate. We asked respondents how they voted last federal election. When we model this historic data we would have predicted Bradbury to be elected over Scott with a two-candidate preferred vote of 52%, which is very close to the actual 2010 poll result of 51%,” Lonergan research managing director Chris Lonergan told Guardian Australia.

The poll, with a margin of error of 3.7%, was taken the night after an exuberant Abbott campaigning in the mortgage-belt seat likened his candidate to former Liberal member Jackie Kelly because they were both ”young”, “feisty” and "I can probably say they have a bit of sex appeal”.

It showed Scott with 60% of the primary vote, compared with 43% at the last election, and Bradbury on just 32%, compared with 45% in 2010.

The certain defeat of scores of New South Wales MPs such as Bradbury was a driving reason behind Labor’s decision to oust former prime minister Julia Gillard in June in favour of Kevin Rudd, who, according to polling at the time, was much more popular in marginal electorates.

But a 12% decline in Bradbury’s primary vote according to the Lonergan poll suggests the Rudd honeymoon is waning in the west, and raises big questions about the effectiveness of Labor’s campaign.

Thirty per cent of Lindsay voters said the leadership change from Gillard to Rudd had made them less likely to vote Labor, 23% said it made them more likely and 47% said it made no difference.

On every measure, the poll shows voters in Lindsay – centred around Penrith – prefer Abbott to deal with the issues they most care about.

Of the 1,038 questioned in the automated telephone poll, 44% nominated the economy as the most important issue in the election and 67% said they thought the Liberal party was best to manage that issue, compared with 30% who preferred Labor.

Twenty-eight per cent of voters said leadership was most important to them, a sentiment both Abbott and Rudd have been tapping with their insistence that they have a positive plan for the country. But 61% of Lindsay voters said they thought Abbott had the most positive election messages and 33% thought Rudd was most positive.

Twelve per cent pointed to asylum policy as the most important issue and, despite Labor’s policy backflip shortly before the election when it decided to send all asylum seekers arriving by boat to Papua New Guinea, 67% thought the Coalition was more likely to stop asylum seeker boats and only 27% nominated Labor as best able to do so.

Having asked how respondents voted in 2010, the poll found that three out of 10 voters who backed Bradbury then are now not planning to vote for him, whereas only 6% have changed their vote away from Scott.

“I have been working in market research for 20 years, and this is one of the biggest swings that I have seen. There are a lot of disenfranchised Labor voters in the Lindsay electorate. Just 65% of those who voted for Bradbury in 2010 intend to vote for him again in September. In comparison, 92% of those who voted for Scott intend to vote for her again,” Lonergan said.

Nationwide polls are showing the Coalition leading by 52% to 48% in two-party preferred terms, putting Labor in a losing, but not an impossible position.

Lonergan acknowledged that the “national polls show the Coalition in front by a much smaller margin than this”, but said the Lindsay result in his poll “may be a combination of a swing against Labor that is under way and which is accentuated in this electorate with its strong focus on the economy”.

Bradbury had his own controversy earlier in the campaign when he questioned whether a radio interviewer was biased towards the Liberal party and later admitted he had “got it wrong”.

Lindsay has been won by a representative of the winning party at every federal election since its creation in 1984.

Before 1996 it was a safe Labor seat, then it was held by Kelly during the Howard years before being won by Bradbury when Labor won office in 2007.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/15/western-sydney-poll-swing-coalition
Edited
9 Years Ago by Joffa
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Labor down in NSW central coast seats, Newspoll shows

Poll puts Labor support in Robertson and Dobell seats down seven points to 46% against the Coalition's 54%

Australian Associated Press
theguardian.com, Friday 16 August 2013 11.17 AEST

Labor looks set to lose Robertson and Dobell on the New South Wales central coast, according to a new poll.

The Newspoll published on Friday in the Australian put Labor’s support in the two seats down seven points to 46%, with the Coalition on 54%, on a two-party preferred basis.

Jason Clare, the home affairs minister, said the race was far from over for Labor. "If this was the Melbourne Cup we'd be on the turn and not every horse that's in front at the turn wins," he told the Nine Network on Friday.

When voters in Robertson and Dobell were asked in the poll who would make the better prime minister, the opposition leader, Tony Abbott, was ahead on 47% compared with Kevin Rudd's 41%.

The national polling favours Rudd 46% to 37%.

Clare said the most important day of the campaign would be the day the Liberal party released the costings for its policies. "That's judgment day. That's when the people of Australia will get a really clear idea of what they'll get with Kevin Rudd and what they get with Tony Abbott."

And he said Abbott's performance on the campaign trail would have an impact. "He's made three big gaffes this week and if he makes more gaffes people will start to look at this bloke and says he's not prime ministerial material."

Labor's Deborah O'Neill holds Robertson for Labor with a very slim margin of 1.1%, while now-independent Craig Thomson won Dobell for Labor at the 2010 election. He is standing again as an independent.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/16/labor-down-nsw-central-coast
Edited
9 Years Ago by Joffa
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The people of West Sydney want to stop the boats...on which they arrived here.
Edited
9 Years Ago by afromanGT
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afromanGT wrote:
The people of West Sydney want to stop the boats...on which they arrived here.



What I find incredible is logic doesn't seem to enter into this election.

I don't really mind how people vote but the lies, misinformation and assumed economic credibility being awarded to one side without foundation just doesn't make sense.

I'm not saying don't vote Abbott if that's who you want to vote for, but ask these questions amongst others

Why is there a $4 billion gap in his enviroment policy?
Why replace the NBN roll out, when the alternative has been discredited?
Why is this so important to Murdoch, and what does that mean for the rest of us?
Is there a $30 - $70 billion shortfall in his policies and where are his policies?
How many jobs are you going to cut, is it 12,000 or 20,000.
How come so many of your comments, statements are false but you persist with them "illegal refugees"?
Why aren't you acknowledging or doing something about most asylum seekers arriving by plane?
Why is sections of the Australian media so publicaly on your side?
What is your relationship with big tobacco?
How you explain low interest rates, no recession, low unemployment all in the midst of a lobl financial crisis?
Why don't we know what you stand for?


Edited by Joffa: 16/8/2013 09:14:14 PM

Edited by Joffa: 16/8/2013 09:20:26 PM
Edited
9 Years Ago by Joffa
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Joffa wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
The people of West Sydney want to stop the boats...on which they arrived here.



What I find incredible is logic doesn't seem to enter into this election.

I don't really mind how people vote but the lies, misinformation and assumed economic credibility being awarded to one side without foundation just doesn't make sense.

It's not specific to this election. None of the elections in the last decade have been logic influenced :lol:

I think it's probably no different to the way it's always been, it's just that in the modern age people fact check on the internet and social media is rampant and politicians in Australia haven't caught up with other nations in this regard.
Edited
9 Years Ago by afromanGT
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Joffa wrote:
pv4 wrote:
Joffa wrote:
pv4 wrote:
paulbagzFC wrote:
Joffa wrote:
Why is Tony Abbott and the Liberal Party still refusing to release policies and economic costings, we are now in the second week of the election campaign?


6 point plan.

-PB


:lol: the first point of the 6 point plan to stop the boats is: to stop the boats :lol:

Edited by pv4: 16/8/2013 07:41:40 AM


And the second point?

I
:lol: I've answered your question already :lol:

TBH I couldn't even tell you if that guy is liberal or labour (although because so many internet people take the piss out of it, I assume he's a liberal) - but fxxx me that was funny. That whole John Oliver clip was unreal :lol:


Yeah he's a Liberal, and the real kicker about his stop the boats policy is his family were refugees from Vietnam in the 1970's.

Actually he is Filipino ,his face and his dads face are plastered all over the Filipino papers .he makes us filos loopk like buffoons :lol:
Edited
9 Years Ago by MvFCArsenal16.8
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Coalition promise not to touch company car/salary sacrifice FBT is a winner. Needing to win, why would Labor turn on working families ;)
Edited
9 Years Ago by Mr
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MvFCArsenal16.8 wrote:
Joffa wrote:
pv4 wrote:
Joffa wrote:
pv4 wrote:
paulbagzFC wrote:
Joffa wrote:
Why is Tony Abbott and the Liberal Party still refusing to release policies and economic costings, we are now in the second week of the election campaign?


6 point plan.

-PB


:lol: the first point of the 6 point plan to stop the boats is: to stop the boats :lol:

Edited by pv4: 16/8/2013 07:41:40 AM


And the second point?

I
:lol: I've answered your question already :lol:

TBH I couldn't even tell you if that guy is liberal or labour (although because so many internet people take the piss out of it, I assume he's a liberal) - but fxxx me that was funny. That whole John Oliver clip was unreal :lol:


Yeah he's a Liberal, and the real kicker about his stop the boats policy is his family were refugees from Vietnam in the 1970's.

Actually he is Filipino ,his face and his dads face are plastered all over the Filipino papers .he makes us filos loopk like buffoons :lol:


Thanks for clarifying, my bad.
Edited
9 Years Ago by Joffa
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MvFCArsenal16.8 wrote:
Joffa wrote:
pv4 wrote:
Joffa wrote:
pv4 wrote:
paulbagzFC wrote:
Joffa wrote:
Why is Tony Abbott and the Liberal Party still refusing to release policies and economic costings, we are now in the second week of the election campaign?


6 point plan.

-PB


:lol: the first point of the 6 point plan to stop the boats is: to stop the boats :lol:

Edited by pv4: 16/8/2013 07:41:40 AM


And the second point?

I
:lol: I've answered your question already :lol:

TBH I couldn't even tell you if that guy is liberal or labour (although because so many internet people take the piss out of it, I assume he's a liberal) - but fxxx me that was funny. That whole John Oliver clip was unreal :lol:


Yeah he's a Liberal, and the real kicker about his stop the boats policy is his family were refugees from Vietnam in the 1970's.

Actually he is Filipino ,his face and his dads face are plastered all over the Filipino papers .he makes us filos loopk like buffoons :lol:


Thanks for clarifying, my bad.
Edited
9 Years Ago by Joffa
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MvFCArsenal16.8 wrote:
Actually he is Filipino ,his face and his dads face are plastered all over the Filipino papers .he makes us filos loopk like buffoons :lol:

That's because you are a buffoon ;)
Joffa wrote:
Yeah he's a Liberal, and the real kicker about his stop the boats policy is his family were refugees from Vietnam in the 1970's.

You're thinking of Andrew Nguyen. The fool who sent out fliers telling people how he was going to stop the boats...
Edited
9 Years Ago by afromanGT
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afromanGT wrote:
MvFCArsenal16.8 wrote:
Actually he is Filipino ,his face and his dads face are plastered all over the Filipino papers .he makes us filos loopk like buffoons :lol:

That's because you are a buffoon ;)
Joffa wrote:
Yeah he's a Liberal, and the real kicker about his stop the boats policy is his family were refugees from Vietnam in the 1970's.

You're thinking of Andrew Nguyen. The fool who sent out fliers telling people how he was going to stop the boats...


Cheers Afro

Edited by Joffa: 16/8/2013 09:42:05 PM
Edited
9 Years Ago by Joffa
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afromanGT wrote:
Joffa wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
The people of West Sydney want to stop the boats...on which they arrived here.



What I find incredible is logic doesn't seem to enter into this election.

I don't really mind how people vote but the lies, misinformation and assumed economic credibility being awarded to one side without foundation just doesn't make sense.

It's not specific to this election. None of the elections in the last decade have been logic influenced :lol:

I think it's probably no different to the way it's always been, it's just that in the modern age people fact check on the internet and social media is rampant and politicians in Australia haven't caught up with other nations in this regard.


Well, 07 was about Work Choices, that was pretty much fact based as it had been in force for 2 years prior to the election.

Mr wrote:
Coalition promise not to touch company car/salary sacrifice FBT is a winner. Needing to win, why would Labor turn on working families ;)


Wish I could get away with tax rorts because allowing them will win elections. :lol:
Edited
9 Years Ago by macktheknife
paulbagzFC
paulbagzFC
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But FBT is only worth it to those earning at a point where the 40% is decent, those kinds of people don't exactly need more tax breaks but alas they get it anyway.

Cutting FBT isn't going to hurt old average joe on their 50-60k average salary.

-PB

https://i.imgur.com/batge7K.jpg

Edited
9 Years Ago by paulbagzFC
Carlito
Carlito
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afromanGT wrote:
MvFCArsenal16.8 wrote:
Actually he is Filipino ,his face and his dads face are plastered all over the Filipino papers .he makes us filos loopk like buffoons :lol:

That's because you are a buffoon ;)
Joffa wrote:
Yeah he's a Liberal, and the real kicker about his stop the boats policy is his family were refugees from Vietnam in the 1970's.

You're thinking of Andrew Nguyen. The fool who sent out fliers telling people how he was going to stop the boats...

hey hey hey my family come from a long line of buffoons thank you very much :lol:
Edited
9 Years Ago by MvFCArsenal16.8
GO


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