A few as in 5, 10, 20.........?

Given the lack of public interest outside the Greek or Croatian community I would say they attendances were predominatly and overwhelming from the two ethnic origins the clubs represent.

That's what it was like in the NSL and it can only be worse now.

Edited by paulc: 16/4/2012 11:44:36 AM

Skinets on the back pedal!

-PB

Really, how so?

Greeks hate Macedonians and Macedonians hate Greeks. Croats hate Serbs and Serbs hate Croats. The majority of the bloodshedding has been when these fixtures occurred much more than say when Greeks play the Croats. Fact.

Political issues aside, the cultural thing with Greeks and Cros is one of expressing a more aggressive fan behaviour than others would perceive as acceptable during sporting events. The constant letting of flares, burning seats at stadiums for example, is not just football related but in basketball and even tennis.

So tell me where my argument is defeated unless you deny that ever happens.

^^I wouldn't worry about it paulc, the matey thing general ashnak puts on to help his pal 'defeat' arguments is really quite lame.



For the game in terms of growing the base/interest in it, the exclusion of other races is the same as other races not being engaged.

It's an important point that mono-ethnic supporters like to skip over. Lets not pretend that the notion that anyone is welcomed equates to everyone *feeling welcomed* and let's also not pretend there is not a *negative impact on the game* when that occurs.



The fact that he *can* go back that fair should be worrying to you.

Of course most of the crap has not been on show since the NSL because it has not had an opportunity via the state leagues that it had via higher profile leagues, but even then it *still* made an appearance.

Now alex i know you're a little thick up top, but if you want to embrace change for the better ask your club what it is doing to engage the *whole* local community. That is what a)will be best for your club longterm and b) benefit the game, not creating many mutli's on a forum frequented by a 100 people.

How many of these fans are HAL fans

damn ethnics still ruining our game? damn.

Quality comment:)

Paulc and Kapow need to back off when they are losing an argument

Damn ethnics still think they run it? Damn..

Not a good strategy for broadening your supporter base. If you want to keep the traditional element of the club, you can do so at the expense of attracting new fans. No issue with ethnic clubs existing at local and state level, but your turf isn't on the national stage. A true football fan would accept this because they are more interested in the games success rather than just a single club.



Glories colours aren't symbolic of any nation, they are not deeply personnel. Changing its colours might cause a ruckus but most people would get over it pretty quick, whereas Knights or United changing colours would lead many to revoke their memberships and abandon the club.



It's not about excluding people, it's about the wider community feeling welcome and included. Most non-Croats wouldn't feel welcome or "included" at your club, just like you would probably feel a bit strange sitting among 1,000 Greek fans at an Olympic game chanting 'Hellas!, Hellas', and they would be looking at you wondering what strange part of Greece you were from.



I checked the youth squads of various ethnic sides about a decade ago and they were 99% mono-ethnic. It's good things are changing, and your clubs are starting to develop talent from all ethnic background rather than self serving a single community. Change has been very slow though, and unfortunately most of it forced.



You might not like the A league and want to join it, but you would love to see it fail.

No, not any more. At of sight, out of mind.

Let them enjoy their mono ethnic community enclave and away from the A-League.

What you fail to understand are these are the clubs that are producing the talent. The State and National Institute of Sport's fail dismally at producing anything substantial.

These damn ethics are still the only thing holding the game at a professional level up. Them going back to the state leagues while they may not like it has forced them to focus even more energy on player development than they have in the past.

Racist you are.

What all you guys don't understand is that skinet/paulc isn't worth arguing with.

He's like a homeless old man ranting about the sky falling, you just smile politely and keep walking.

So your saying,in 2002 various ethnic sides had youth squads made up of 99% of players from one ethnic background, supposedley the same as the clubs ethnic heritage.

Could you tell us the ethnic sides and direct us to the player lists to verify this statement. As you are aware a claim of 99% of the players being of one particular ethnic background would literally mean that from 100 players only one is of a different ethnic background from that of the clubs ethnic background.



Edited by Arthur: 17/4/2012 08:19:34 AM

Exactly i agree Arthur

Having Croatian heritage i know a bit about it and yes the clubs might be ethnic but in the end of the day it doesn't matter where you're from if you're good enough then you're in the squad.

People with backgrounds such as Croatians, Greeks, Macos, Italians etc (sorry for everyone i missed) where the big backgrounds that played football back in the day. Even though these clubs are ethnic backgrounds they are still Australian and we need to stop treating them like they're not.

In the end of the day it wasn't white anglo chip eating Australians that can hit up ancestry .com and trace there generation back to the convicts that has played the game in the past it was those who have migrated from 'ethnic backgrounds' that have kept the game alive in this nation. Im not saying a 'ethnic club' should ever be let into the A-league but just because a club was formed on 'ethnic heritage' shouldn't dis-clude it forever it is that 'ethnic culture' that has kept football alive in Australia and it is those clubs that has survived from many years.

Chances are the HAL will fall apart and it is this alienation of 'old soccer' that will destroy it Australia is a multi-cultural society and we need to stop forgetting that because there won't be an A-league.

'Soccer, football, the world game' what ever you call the game these days can unite us under one banner as Australians due to its rich heritage and no other sport can do the same. That is the key to football being successful in this country not fear but acceptance, not pride and arrogance but learning from mistakes and not creating divinity within the football community but uniting it like no other 'code' can and that is why they're scared of us.



Edited by Davstar: 17/4/2012 08:45:05 AM

Bullshit. Try claiming that in Queensland, Northern NSW etc.

I was driving past the ground and stopped to watch the last 25 minutes of the game Parramatta (Melita) - Marconi last Sunday (the gates were open) and fair dinkum there were less then 40 people there and most of them looked like 80 years old. Out of sight out of mind allright.

Arthur, the point is these ethnic clubs have historically has a policy of developing youth players within their own communities. Whether it's 99% or 59% isn't especially important, if there were two players of the same ability one was Greek/Croat/Italian and the other was something else, the club would choose the Greek/Croat/Italian. Unless all the good players in that particular region all happened to be Greek/Croat/Italian, which would be a mighty fine coincidence. There was of course the token Aussie guy to promote to the wider community how inclusive they were of other ethnicity in their club. :)



Edited by rusty: 17/4/2012 10:22:02 AM

Oh, so it WAS just a coincidence they mostly from the same background? Sorry about that....



They are "Australian" in the most superficial sense. They were formed by migrants to serve their migrant communities. Sydney United is an Australian Croatian club, for first generation Croatians and their Australian-Croatian kids and grandkids, etc. You can't call it an Australian club without calling it Croatian club first, they aren't mutually exclusive.



They have kept the game alive but they're also repressed it, that's why the NSL was scrapped and the multicultural, all inclusive A league established, to appeal the a broader market the NSL failed at. We can "dis-clude" ethnic clubs on the basis they don't fit within A leagues multicultural theme and geographic based rivalry rather than tribal. There are also sound commercial reasons not to allow ethnic clubs in the comp, as we saw with the NSL.



Chances are the A league will survive and thrive and 'old soccer' have a choice to either persist in their bitterness or enjoy the fruits of a modern, evolved football competition that doesn't racially discriminate. I'm pretty certain within the next decade the old NSL bitters will have died out, it's only when something bad happens in the A league they pop their heads out of the woods and have a crack at it, but every year their numbers are fewer.



That's what they A league did, broke down the racial barriers and made it accessible for anyone to enjoy.

In the past 6 years the 'right wing nationalistic pro Greek' blah blah blah South Melbourne have had 2 captains with Turkish background Ramazan Tavsancioglu and Tansel Baser. Both were well respected/regarded by fans. Currently we have the 'token' Aussie as captain Steve O'Dor. We've also had 'Croatians'(Ante Kovacevic),'Italians'(Paul Trimboli) as captains. Ange was also captain for several years but having come through the under 10's at South he basically picked himself.
We've had every nationality imaginable play at South over the decades. If you were any good you'd get a game, if you were shit you wouldn't. It's that simple.

Some people really have no idea about anything to do with football in this country pre-2005.

I love how you simplify the issue to the point of stupidity. I take it using your view that no one from Northern Ireland and Southern Ireland could stand to be near each other with out getting involved in violent confrontation? After all there is still ongoing incidents of violence between individuals and small groups of people from the two countries.

I am also curious as to how you justify the violence that occurs between AUFC and MVFC fans? From what I have seen it must be based on the tensions that exist between South Australian and Victorians and that traditional violent rivalry is something that we should be preventing.

I can keep going with the same sort of reductionist argument that you engage in if you want?

The Melb Knights squad at present

1 croat coach
1 half german/greek ex under20 aussie international as assistant
3 italian born aussies
3 aussie boys
1 english player
1 aussie born iranian
1 player of muslim arabic decent and the rest aussie cro boys in a squad of 18 so thats 50/50 mix, and i remember a time when there was only 1 cro in the team and the rest were all other nationalities.

Oh that's promising. :lol:

Here is the current Knights committee

Anđelko Cimera
Šimun Samardžić
Melinda Cimera
Ivana Raspudić
Šime Pinčić
Pave Jusup
John Jurac
Rob Pevac
John Pejić
Paul Magdić
Željko Gagula
Frank Jurić
Mario Jurjević
Lorenz Kindtner
Tony Kolčeg
Mirko Rastočić

So you are saying that a board that comprises mostly of people of Croatian heritage are allowing 50% of the face of their club (the players) to be from non Croatian backgrounds?

:shock:

Holy shit dude, I never thought about it that way. Knights for the A League!!

:lol: quality :lol:

yes yes and yes!!but that long list of commitee members includes the coaches and gear steward, take 6 from the list

Hang on a minute Rusty you claimed you checked the youth lists of 10 years ago and they were 99% mono-ethnic.

Well I'm asking you to prove it please. In particular in 2002.

Thanks.

There are two former Australian Internationals at senior and youth levels on that committee, at least another two ex players on that list a father of a kid who promises to be a great player in Australia and hopefully for Australia. And one of my good mates on that committee. And a couple of names there that have contributed a lot $$$$$$ to the game.

And all Australian citizens and most Australian born. I can't seem to see your problem. Please explain further.

Can you prove it Arthur? Have you got birth certificates to prove most of these are Australian born? Is the Frank Juric on the list the same one that represented Oz? How about showing us the financial statements of the football philanthropist before making these wild statements. Just don't make things up without supporting evidence son.[-x

Because their last names are not Anglo enough. If there was some Smith's, Johnston's etc on the board it would be perfectly acceptable.

The borderline racism by both PaulC and Rusty all over this forum is incredible.