Do I throw a spoiler bar over it if its my own theory of what's going to happen?? :lol:

Th blow up about that scene is just ridiculous, it's no different to how Drogo 'consumated' his marriage with Danny in the first ever episode and unlike now they actually showed that.

The difference is that Drogo was likeable, he was just uncivilized, whereas Ramsay has a long history of brutal torture and sadistic tendencies so it's more disturbing to viewers.

I think people are pissed because we've seen some development on Sansa's part to be a "player" but this just pushed her back down to being a "victim".

But maybe she allowed it so easily because she is still a "player" and pretending to be a "victim"

who knows. Its what happens when they substitute Jeyne Poole for Sansa Stark. Jeyne had it worse in the books.

I sort of see it like that, I don't take the fact she didn't struggle to mean she is pretending but I think she is in a much stronger mental place than Danny was when Drogo forced himself on her, or even Cersei when Jaime raped her at the foot of their sons corpse. She had resigned herself to this happening and IMO her character development with Little Finger won't be for nothing, obviously she can't stand up to Ramsey physically but I think he'll have a very hard time breaking her mentally.

i think Sansa wasnt expecting Ramsay to be that bad since she thought no one could be as bad as Joffrey

I agree but I think she clued into what sort of person Ramsey is well before he raped her. The lead in mind games with Reek and Myranda's attempts at unnerving her definitely tipped her off to what married life with Ramsey would entail IMO.

What I've seen most, level headed people that is, pissed about is using rape as a way of 'motivating' a character, if indeed this leads to her becoming stronger, and I can kind of agree with it.

Me personally, I didn't really think it was horrible, just don't really think it was needed to achieve what it looks like it was used for.

I don't read the books but I've been really interested with the petty obvious hints being dropped this season about Jon's real parentage and noticed online that this is pretty much confirming a theory that had been circulating amongst readers for a long time now.

I know most readers hate the way the show is diverting from the course of the text but do major hints like that fall in the same boat for you or is that validation a good feature?

I probably should have mentioned what I said was more in tune when she was with Littlefinger on the road and she had the option of turning back to the Vale. I think if she knew he what Ramsay was like at that point then I'd imagine she wouldn't have agreed to go to Winterfell.

Absolutely.
I think the HBO producers kind of just hashed something together to achieve their quota of 1 shock factor per season.

The past shock factors worked (Ned's beheading, Red Wedding, Oberyn Vs Mountain) because they were long thought out by GRRM and very much line with the book. The whole Sansa thing is just going way off tangent from the storyline. I think it kind of backfired for HBO in the end, the backlash has been pretty monumental.

HBO need to consider carefully what they intend for future seasons....they need to remember the books took a long time to be written and thought out in order to earn the cult following it currently has.



Edited by SocaWho: 19/5/2015 05:39:17 PM

Which hints in the TV series are you referring to from this season? I dont think its been THAT obvious.

The whole R+L=J is spot on but. If it turns out any other way, the internet will literally melt down.

I find it obsurd that people will actually take time from their day to vent their fury of an actor raping an actress.

You didn't even see it.

Personally i found the use of Rape as a plot device/character development to be a bit poorly thought out. It just felt lazy by the writers looking for some unneeded shock value.

its the fact that the writers used it not in line with the book...hence thats the reason i raised it.
its no different to the Khal drogo Dani scene

I have read the first, and half of the second, book. And R+L=J was so freaking obvious in the first book - I worked it out. There was one point in particular it practically spelled it out. I honestly haven't seen too much to hint at it in the show.

Btw this whole Sansa rape thing - I don't even see it as rape tbh. massive overreaction from the world on this one imo.

In this season, the hints have been massive. There was a scene when a distant relative of J was just talking about family and then the next scene just started with a close up of the person's face :lol:

i think if anything the rape woukd just make Sansa more determined and more badass about what she needs to do to exact revenge.She realises shes a Stark so she knows shes got a support cast of followers that are ready to go war with her when the time is right

Yeah I meant R+L=J, there had been hints before but they're just shoving it down our throats now.

I dont think she would have tbh, I think she hates how weak she was when Joffrey was terrorizing her and recognizes how LF can make her stronger. Turning away even from such a monster as Ramsey would mean resigning herself to being that timid girl for the rest of her life and after LF has given her a taste of what she can become she'll endure just about anything to realize that potential IMO.

They dropped a massive R+L=J hint the other week with Stannis saying that bedding a tavern slut was not Ned's way.

Plus that whole spiel Maester Aemon gave about how a Targaryen alone in the world is such a sad thing right before Jon walks in was just about as blatant as you can get IMO.

You have a point...the only concern i have is what her breaking point would be.
She has endured a lot of hardship during the show ie
1 seeing her father beheaded
2 being physically and emotionallt abused by Joffrey
3 Locked down in fear that if Stannis won the battke of blackwater in season 2 she coulld be raped
4 forced to marry Tyrion
5 fear of the Hound
6 being almost raped in an alleyway only to be saved by The Hound
7 Hearing the news about Robb and Catelyn being murdered at th Red Wedding
8 being kissed by LF
9 being acosted by her Crazy aunt
10Hearing the news Theob killed her 2 bros
11 being raped. by Ramsay

But i guess you could argue all the things leading up to the rape scene has only made her stronger




Edited by Socawho: 19/5/2015 11:29:35 PM

Surely her breaking point should be when someone says what is needed to be said - which is that the death of her family members was her fault for backing Joffrey in her attempt to become queen rather than back her family. A lot of the bad things that has happened to her was her own stupid fault IMO.

i agree in part with what you say.
i think things may have been a lot different had she taken up The Hounds offer to take her to Winterfell.
It might have seemed a risky option at the time...but getting out of Kings Landing at any cost should have been a priorty

Backing Joffrey when the early-days sword scrap happened wound up getting the Butchers Boy killed, Aryas direwolf let go, and Sansa's direwolf killed. Backing Joffrey, and doing Cersei's bidding, basically got Ned killed. Backing Joffrey, and doing Cersei's bidding, basically eventuated in the Red Wedding.

She was honestly my most hated character for a long time, because she just completely ditched the loyalty. Spending a couple of seasons of her not completely ruining her heritage doesn't make me hate her any less. The North remembers.

Jon Snow will surely end up being R'hllor's champion to fight the God of the Others.

-PB

Plus with Barristan telling all the good stories of Rhaegar to Dany in the same episodes that Littlefinger tells Sansa about the tourney.

They are dropping more and more hints and I'm hoping we see The Tower of Joy scene through a Bran vision next season.

Also, they namedropped greyscale every episode this season until Jorah/Tyrion ran into the Stonemen.

They seem to do this often so its in the forefront of viewers minds. Unlike the books where the hints can be done books apart.

Either him or Dany.

A Song of Ice and Fire always to me meant White Walkers vs Dragons.

Being GRRM and a deconstruction of the fantasy genre, I wouldn't be surprised if the Others win at the end :lol:

To me, I took it directly as Ned Stark's sword being named Ice. I assumed there would be a great sword later on named Fire, and it'd be about the battle between whoever wielded either.

But that theory fell short somewhat when Tywin melted it :lol:

Edited by pv4: 20/5/2015 10:33:26 AM

The sword is carried by Brienne . but reformed again.
it is in the right locale to make dispersions about the sword

Edited by Socawho: 20/5/2015 10:47:46 AM